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pcarrollg

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
3
Hi!
I'm a new member here. I found this site while searching for an engagement ring diamond and have found reading through past threads very helpful so far. So I started looking for a diamond in the 1ct range, however after searching for a while I think I can go anywhere in the 0.8 to 1 ct range. I do not think that the size difference would make a significant difference. I think I'd rather go with better quality diamond in the 0.8 range that fits my budget vs getting a larger diamond. I am looking at this for the setting, however I'm still undecided between rose and white gold:

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ek-line-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-4592.htm

For the diamond, I found this one so far on White Flash.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3929365.htm

From what I've researched this looks like a decent choice to me, however I am FAR from an expert and only really have 3 hours of real research to back this so far.

My total budget is no more than $7k. However, the one item that is still kind of up in the air is whether my girlfriend wants to go with a larger moissanite or diamond. We have visited a couple of stores together so I think I have a good idea of what she is looking for in a setting. She really likes the channel set/pave/reverse taper. We actually saw a moissanite in person and were able to compare it side by side to a diamond. The sparkle seemed to be a little different to me, but any money saved on the ring will be able to go towards the wedding and everything else. And she seems to like the moissanite. If anyone has an opinion either way I'd be interested to hear!
 
In the long run, I personally would rather have a real diamond. If you buy from a vendor with a great upgrade policy, you can upgrade the stone in the future if either of you want to do it.

However, that being said, it really is up to your personal preference on where best to spend your money. Weddings are pricey and every dollar counts. However, a diamond ring is something that she will have to love and cherish her whole life through and I would rather skimp on some other detail of the wedding if it meant I could have a diamond engagement ring. Just my two cents!
 
I'd echo @MissGotRocks thoughts on getting a real diamond.

FYI, I like this diamond a little better. Although less carat weight, the physical dimensions are almost identical. And you save about $1,000.

WF = 5.98 x 6.02mm
BGD = 5.96 x 5.98mm

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/0.801-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104099554050

It's very clean to be a VS2 stone with very few inclusions. And while it's an H color, with the diamond being a super ideal cut it will face up nice & bright white still.

If you want to save cash, I'd go this route.

But if you do upgrade, WF has a little more flexibility. With BGD, you have to upgrade two qualities: carat, color or clarity.
 
I would get a real diamond.
I am sure you know this but moissanite is a created stone and has low resale value.

Another thought is maybe a sapphire which has a better price point but you can get a bigger stone look.

For me, my first choice is a real diamond within your price range. You can always upgrade later.

Congrats to you both!
 
Miki Moto said:
I would get a real diamond.
I am sure you know this but moissanite is a created stone and has low resale value.

Another thought is maybe a sapphire which has a better price point but you can get a bigger stone look.

For me, my first choice is a real diamond within your price range. You can always upgrade later.

Congrats to you both!
Click to expand...

First off, I will strongly disagree and say that one should never buy a diamond for the resale value. That is perhaps the worst reason to buy a diamond. Diamonds are like cars: If you're buying from a reseller, the diamond will be worth 50-60% of its value immediately after you purchase it (assuming you got a fair price purchasing from an online retailer. Much less if you purchased from a mall store). Yes, a moissanite is practically worthless after purchasing, but that doesn't make a diamond that retains 50% of it's resale value a better investment.

Buy a $500 moissanite. Worth 10% ($50) of its original value after purchase. You're out $450.

Buy a $5000 diamond. Worth 50% ($2500) of its original value after purchase. You're out $2500.

If you want a sound investment, take the $5000 and put it in VTSAX. Average 10% annual returns. Be happy. :)

Diamonds, rather than being an investment or something that you should purchase for the resale value, are an emotional purchase. Their worth is something that cannot be quantified in monetary value. Only you and your fiancee can decide what that is worth to you. But if she has explicitly indicated that she wants a larger moissanite, then I would listen to her desires. Say she wants a 1.5 carat stone (just throwing this number out. You said she wants larger, and this is just where most people start to quantify stones as "large." I have no clue what she wants :mrgreen:). She may not be satisfied with a 0.8 carat diamond. If such a stone would not be in the budget now, and the money for a diamond could be better spent on the wedding as you indicated, then a 1.5 carat equivalent moissanite may be the financially prudent choice. You could always upgrade to a diamond of the same size later (this would be particularly easy in a prong setting like you posted).

But this is something you should discuss with your fiancee. Some women want a diamond no matter what the size, and would rather start with a smaller diamond (even if their goal is a larger one) and then upgrade to the desired size a few years down the road. If this is the case with your girlfriend, then any of the SuperIdeal vendors would be excellent choices, as they all have fantastic upgrade policies. But if the size is something that she wants now, and she likes the look of moissanite, then that would probably be the best way to go.

Hope that helps. Diamond simiulants can't be discussed on these boards, but there are many other forums that could help you decide on the particular brand/variety of moissanite (there are hundreds haha) should you decide to go that route. :)
 
pcarrollg said:
Hi!
e actually saw a moissanite in person and were able to compare it side by side to a diamond. The sparkle seemed to be a little different to me, but any money saved on the ring will be able to go towards the wedding and everything else. And she seems to like the moissanite. If anyone has an opinion either way I'd be interested to hear!
Click to expand...
Don't waste your :$$):
 
Dancing Fire said:
Don't waste your :$$):
Click to expand...

Umm, excuse me? Not sure if I follow this logic. If she likes something, why would it be a waste of money?

I know plenty of women with moissanites. They chose them because they like them. And the new colorless ones look quite nice. Different from a diamond, but still very pretty.
 
I agree with DancingFire, sledge and MissGotRocks. There is the possibility that she thinks she wants a Moissanite, but how will she like it when her friends and co-workers compare it to their diamonds? I've actually seen this happen, and the ring and stone were quickly scrapped to the tune of a couple of thousand dollars.

If neither of you are stuck on a MRB (Modern Round Brilliant), you might consider an OEC (Old European Cut). They are gorgeous and flowery, and REAL diamonds, and uniquely different from the typical MRB. Here is one for you to look at, but it may be a warmer color than either of you prefer.

https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-36ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-l-si

You could also visit Old World Diamonds and take a peek at their inventory, they have hundreds of beauties to drool over. Just a different option... Good luck to you both!
 
@pcarrollg, you are posting on a diamond forum, so the opinions of other will be colored by their own personal choices and perception of their choices. This is a form of selection bias. I will say that, you should never purchase something because of what others will think of it. Buy it because it's what you want, or in this case, what your future fiancee wants.

Which goes back to my original point: Figure out what your fiancee really wants and values and go with that. I personally purchased a diamond because, after asking my girlfriend, she said she wanted a real diamond. Case closed. Done. She was getting a real diamond. And this forum was a great place for helping me choose said diamond. :)

Had she said she wanted a moissante, that's what she would have gotten. Happy wife (or happy future wife) happy life.

I will say that, on other forums (such as the one that rhymes with WeddingTree, which is what my wedding will be called :D ) there are plenty of cases of upset girlfriends/fiancees who had strongly hinted that they wanted a larger moissanite but instead got a small diamond. Just as many cases as women who strongly hinted they wanted a diamond and got a moissanite. Or women who wanted platinum and got yellow gold. Or wanted a solitaire and got a halo. etc. etc. You get the point.

The take-away from this is to listen to what she wants. Any purchase is only a waste of money if it doesn't make the end-user happy or it's not something that they wanted in the first place.
 
I’ve got both and yes, they sparkle differently. Moissanite is doubly refractive (makes the internal facets look blurry on some angles) and looks more like a disco rainbow ball.
Some find this aspect a bit disconcerting and “cheap looking”.
A diamond is a diamond, a masterpiece creation of nature. Most beautiful gem (some will disagree of course).
A Moissanite is a man made diamond look a like.
It’s a personal choice.
If your fiancé to be wants the most sparkle for the least bucks, try and buy a pre loved Moissanite ring on eBay or Loupe Troop.
If your fiancé to be wants a diamond, buy a diamond.
A diamond is a diamond, anything else is a “look a like, wanna be”.
 
I'm certain if diamonds were double refractive and moissanite wasn't, people would criticise the appearance of moissanite for not sparkling enough.
 
When DH & I were discussing marriage & looking for ideas for my ER, I was willing to compromise due to affordability. My main concern was our budget, and I offered to wear a white sapphire instead of a diamond, until we could find a diamond for my ER. He refused to get me anything but a diamond; those were his terms. He wanted quality over quantity, and insisted upon giving me a diamond.
I have to say, I’m thankful he made the decision; I love diamonds, and there really is nothing like the real thing. An upgrade could always be in her future, but you have to decide what is most important to you.
Good luck!! :mrgreen2:
 
Bron357 said:
I’ve got both and yes, they sparkle differently. Moissanite is doubly refractive (makes the internal facets look blurry on some angles) and looks more like a disco rainbow ball.
Some find this aspect a bit disconcerting and “cheap looking”.
A diamond is a diamond, a masterpiece creation of nature. Most beautiful gem (some will disagree of course).
A Moissanite is a man made diamond look a like.
It’s a personal choice.
If your fiancé to be wants the most sparkle for the least bucks, try and buy a pre loved Moissanite ring on eBay or Loupe Troop.
If your fiancé to be wants a diamond, buy a diamond.
A diamond is a diamond, anything else is a “look a like, wanna be”.
Click to expand...

Some may find people who pass such judgements on the monetary appearance of other's symbols of lifelong commitment conceited and arrogant.
 
TreeScientist said:
Some may find people who pass such judgements on the monetary appearance of other's symbols of lifelong commitment conceited and arrogant.
Click to expand...
Apologies, my reference “cheap looking” was meaning garish looking or too good to be true, not a financial reference.
 
What does your GF do for a living? Or, if in school, what is she studying to do? Is she a person that keeps up with fashion and trends or could care less? Is she likely to know every detail about a friend's rings or is her crowd casual? What size stone do you generally see in her social settings? Her family (especially sisters if she has any already sporting a ring)? If she were to assume that 10% of people would know she was wearing a moissy vs. diamond, would she be cool with that? What about 50%? Do you have any ego/expectation about the stone? Are you ok with an alternative?

I think only you and your FF can decide which stone will suit. I think the conversation begins with her wants and expectations and your budget. You have a $7k budget for the ring and stone. Assuming a setting is $1500, that leaves, $5500 for a stone. You could get a diamond that is .9-1 c and use your full budget. Or, you can get a moissanite of virtually any size/cut for under $1k (potentially way under) -- leaving as much as $5k for future events/costs. To @Bron357 and other's points, if you go with moissy -- the antique cuts (old European cut, old mine cut, old cushion cut) are dramatically more successful at tamping down on that disco-ball effect. Moissanite has good durability and scratch resistant. Moissy chip differently than a diamond and generally, those chips are less structurally risky. The other common diamond alternatives would be sapphire and ruby. Rubies of good quality (especially if she wants fire-engine red) are more expensive than diamonds. You can find many sapphire options for around $5k in virtually any color (but red). The drawback to sapphire and ruby is that they are more likely to scratch and often do. I just had a sapphire re-polished due to scratches through normal wear and tear. Some may suggest a white sapphire, but I find that they go dead when dirty (like after 4 hours of wearing) and are not a valid alternative to diamond or moissy for a colorless option.

Diamond: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4925980 {clouds need to be cleared for impact on the stone, but this has good angles and is a good size, put on hold if interested}

Montana Sapphire: https://www.earthstreasury.com/product/2-59-carat-robins-egg-blue-montana-sapphire/ {one of my favorite vendors for Montana sapphires}. You can get lots of recommendations for other vendors on the Colored Stone board if you go this route

Moissanite: If you post over on Fabulous Fashion board, folks can provide some recommendations for good vendors that sell well-cut stones from the better rough.

If your thought is to buy a moissy or other stone now and replace that with a diamond, that is up to you. But, unless you replace the alternative with a stone of nearly the same size, the setting may or may not accommodate that new stone. Thus, you may be looking at a new setting and stone. But, that happens to many looking to upgrade even within a gemstone type.
 
Moissanite is not "mind clean" for me*. The fact that all the right conditions naturally occurred in order to created such a beautiful stone is part of the
mystique for me whether it be diamond or any other colored stone the Earth created. However, you and your future spouse may
feel differently. I think only you and your future spouse can decide what is right for you.

I can say, if you are going to go the "save money" route, I would not spend it on the wedding. The wedding comes and goes in one day. Spend
it or save it for something more tangible like a house (just my opinion).

You have a healthy budget. My choice would be the WF setting you picked with a lower color stone (G/H). Ideal cut stones face up fairly white.
ACAs are AGS graded to have Ideal light return which means the stone is returning a maximum amount of light to the viewer. Have your GF
go try on some rose gold and white gold settings to see what she likes more.

H there are many Hs to choose from...here are just a few but make sure you check everything at WF
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3964551.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3876802.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3684100.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950126.htm larger H
G
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3784282.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3964555.htm
F
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3978029.htm

Edit...btw if you want to see some comparisons between 3 stones (like color difference or size difference)
you can call whiteflash and ask for a photo of 3 different stones together. Helps with peace of mind.
 
rockysalamander said:
What does your GF do for a living? Or, if in school, what is she studying to do? Is she a person that keeps up with fashion and trends or could care less? Is she likely to know every detail about a friend's rings or is her crowd casual? What size stone do you generally see in her social settings? Her family (especially sisters if she has any already sporting a ring)? If she were to assume that 10% of people would know she was wearing a moissy vs. diamond, would she be cool with that? What about 50%? Do you have any ego/expectation about the stone? Are you ok with an alternative?
Click to expand...

tyty333 said:
I can say, if you are going to go the "save money" route, I would not spend it on the wedding. The wedding comes and goes in one day. Spend
it or save it for something more tangible like a house (just my opinion).
Click to expand...

There is some pretty good advice/considerations in those two quotes above. I might add that while I am pro-diamond, I do believe it is definitely a personal choice and one you should make together. With a decent sized budget, there may be disappoint from her side if you don't make this a talk point.

Also, I think that conversation helps you as well. It's definitely one thing to talk with her and you BOTH be in agreement and want a stimulant. It's entirely different if she has no idea or doesn't sincerely bless that decision. Just be careful how you handle it is all.
 
@TreeScientist I never said diamonds are an investment, read my post again.

I said Moissanite has low resale value and I was being kind... it’s basically a created stone. A person could get a zirconia for $10. Your 10% residual value on the Moissanite example sums it up... almost no value.
 
Miki Moto said:
@TreeScientist I never said diamonds are an investment, read my post again.

I said Moissanite has low resale value and I was being kind... it’s basically a created stone. A person could get a zirconia for $10. Your 10% residual value on the Moissanite example sums it up... almost no value.
Click to expand...
Moissanites are selling for quite a bit more than 10% resale on LT and DB...
 
Miki Moto said:
@TreeScientist I never said diamonds are an investment, read my post again.

I said Moissanite has low resale value and I was being kind... it’s basically a created stone. A person could get a zirconia for $10. Your 10% residual value on the Moissanite example sums it up... almost no value.
Click to expand...

I've already established I'm pro-diamond, so I fully understand what you are saying about value.

However, in @TreeScientist's defense, he wasn't really trying to defend their value. He acknowledged they were worth less, and would lose a higher percentage should they be resold. He was just hedging his initial investment by stating you'd lose less dollars by going moissy than if you went with a diamond. He is correct. Total dollars lost would be less with moissy; however, actual return on investment (ROI) is way worse.

Moissy: $1,000 x 10% resale = $100 resale value ($900 loss)
Diamond: $5,000 x 50% resale = $2,500 resale value ($2,500 loss)

The fact the moissy is only worth a $100 is inconsequential as he is saying the OP would only have lost $900 instead of $2,500 had he purchased a diamond.

All theory at the end of the day either way. And what about subjective issues you can't really put monetary value on -- how it sparkles, how it makes the giver & receiver feel, etc?
 
sledge said:
I've already established I'm pro-diamond, so I fully understand what you are saying about value.

However, in @TreeScientist's defense, he wasn't really trying to defend their value. He acknowledged they were worth less, and would lose a higher percentage should they be resold. He was just hedging his initial investment by stating you'd lose less dollars by going moissy than if you went with a diamond. He is correct. Total dollars lost would be less with moissy; however, actual return on investment (ROI) is way worse.

Moissy: $1,000 x 10% resale = $100 resale value ($900 loss)
Diamond: $5,000 x 50% resale = $2,500 resale value ($2,500 loss)

The fact the moissy is only worth a $100 is inconsequential as he is saying the OP would only have lost $900 instead of $2,500 had he purchased a diamond.

All theory at the end of the day either way. And what about subjective issues you can't really put monetary value on -- how it sparkles, how it makes the giver & receiver feel, etc?
Click to expand...

Miki Moto said:
@TreeScientist I never said diamonds are an investment, read my post again.

I said Moissanite has low resale value and I was being kind... it’s basically a created stone. A person could get a zirconia for $10. Your 10% residual value on the Moissanite example sums it up... almost no value.
Click to expand...

Yep, @sledge got my point. Even using 10% as an example (I know that you can actually get closer to 30% on LT as pointed out by @mrsgreeneyes :)) ), the fact remains that you would still loose more money on a $5000 diamond than a $500 moissanite. This is further compounded by the fact that, if the remaining $4500 was invested at 7% annual dividends (a modest but safe return estimate), the $4500 would be worth $6311 after 5 years of yearly compounding.

http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm

So I stand by my initial claim that buying a diamond for re-sale value is rather silly.

And let me again say that I am all in favor of a diamond if that is what both partners decide upon after discussing the matter, as @sledge pointed out (I bought a diamond, remember? :) ). It's just that "a diamond would have better resale value" is not a point I would bring into consideration when making this decision.
 
Wow thanks for all of the replys! I didn't intend on starting such a discussion on the differences between moissanite vs diamond but it is definitely intriguing. To answer a couple of questions, I've discussed this openly with my GF and have checked out several rings together in person. I have a good idea for what type of settings she prefers, but she's still up in the air on diamond vs moissanite. She has mentioned that she would probably prefer a larger moissanite over a diamond, but have something with the ability to change for a larger diamond later. However with the diamond upgrade options from WF or somewhere similar, I am wondering if it might make more sense to go for a smaller diamond now and upgrade in a couple of years. I'm not sure how much the setting I originally posted would be able to go up in size if we upgraded down the line either. We're both engineers so we spend a lot of time researching and probably over-research before making a decision.

Thanks a lot to @sledge and @tyty333 for offering some alternative diamond selections. I really like the BGV suggestion. Also thanks to everyone who's giving advice and thought provoking questions. So I think for now I need to either make a decision or get the GF to make a decision on which stone to go with. It's hard since I think she has some preconceived notions about diamonds being artificially overvalued.
 
pcarrollg said:
Wow thanks for all of the replys! I didn't intend on starting such a discussion on the differences between moissanite vs diamond but it is definitely intriguing. To answer a couple of questions, I've discussed this openly with my GF and have checked out several rings together in person. I have a good idea for what type of settings she prefers, but she's still up in the air on diamond vs moissanite. She has mentioned that she would probably prefer a larger moissanite over a diamond, but have something with the ability to change for a larger diamond later. However with the diamond upgrade options from WF or somewhere similar, I am wondering if it might make more sense to go for a smaller diamond now and upgrade in a couple of years. I'm not sure how much the setting I originally posted would be able to go up in size if we upgraded down the line either. We're both engineers so we spend a lot of time researching and probably over-research before making a decision.

Thanks a lot to @sledge and @tyty333 for offering some alternative diamond selections. I really like the BGV suggestion. Also thanks to everyone who's giving advice and thought provoking questions. So I think for now I need to either make a decision or get the GF to make a decision on which stone to go with. It's hard since I think she has some preconceived notions about diamonds being artificially overvalued.
Click to expand...
If you and your GF decide to go the moissanite route, this Reddit thread may be of interest to you.

But also... congratulations on your pending engagement! This is a very, very exciting time. :mrgreen2:
 
I would get a one carat diamond from WF now with the option of upgrading it in the future. OR I'd call IDJ and find out what they have for PS quality stones in your budget...
 
mrsgreeneyes said:
If you and your GF decide to go the moissanite route, this Reddit thread may be of interest to you.

But also... congratulations on your pending engagement! This is a very, very exciting time. :mrgreen2:
Click to expand...

Buying directly from the Chinese source: Love it! I've purchased plenty of times from Alibaba and have yet to be dissappointed. If we're going to buy foreign products anyway, why pay a middleman mark-up for them? :D
 
You're welcome @pcarrollg. I hope as a collective unit, we can help guide you properly and make your decision process easier.

You've already gotten some great advice, but I may throw 2 more cents your way if you have any desire to listen. Before you place all this burden upon your girl to decide, I think you should also think about what YOU want to give her. Just like it's a lot for you to decide, it is also a lot for her as well -- especially being engineers and all technical.

Remember, it's okay to have differing opinions. And if that's the case then I think each of you need to explain the why's so you can see the others POV. My guess is that through this process, you will come to the right conclusion for you guys. And at the end of the day, that is all that really matters.

FYI, in my own personal life, my girl cares more about the setting and overall look then the actual stone. It drives me mad, lol. At one point she was dropping me hints of rings that literally cost $100-200 and we joked about her expensive tastes. She said they were pretty and she could careless if she had CZ, moissy or a real diamond. That is about the time I decided I wanted to give her the best diamond I could find that was a great value. Weird how her not caring what it was as long as it came from me made me want to give her the best I could find.

Hopefully you will find that happy ending for yourself soon. Let us know once you've decided and maybe we can continue to point you in the right direction. :cool2:
 
I completely agree with you @sledge

OP... when I was dating my now husband, when we talked, I told him I wanted a 1ct stone. I was young and did not know much, and it was all about the size to me. My husband ended up purchasing a .83 Lazare diamond, which back the day was what we call now a super ideal. It was not the 1ct I wanted, but wow... I looked at the stone sparkle and got so many compliments on it, I realized I am so glad he went against my wish lame ignorant wish. Today, we still joke he was ahead of his time getting a "super ideal".

I got a quality stone that I was proud of, not a big cheap stone. That's my story, and I hope it helped.

Good luck to you and best wishes!
 
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