Searching for diamond and comparing to alternative

[blueMA]

more sense to go for a smaller diamond now and upgrade in a couple of years.

That's what I'd recommend.

One thing for sure, you and she need to know that a moissanite won't be mistaken for a diamond outside ideal lighting and the stones look quite flat - I personally dislike the look. Be sure to view the stone against a good quality diamond in various non jeweler lighting before making the decision. Moissy works for some people who embrace it, but not for others who try to pass it as a diamond.

 

[TreeScientist]

That's what I'd recommend.

One thing for sure, you and she need to know that a moissanite won't be mistaken for a diamond outside ideal lighting and the stones look quite flat - I personally dislike the look. Be sure to view the stone against a good quality diamond in various non jeweler lighting before making the decision. Moissy works for some people who embrace it, but not for others who try to pass it as a diamond.

Most definitely. I would never recommend trying to pass off moissanite as diamond. It's a completey different stone with a different "personality." Like I said, I have a few friends with them, and I can tell within about 5 seconds of looking at them that it's not a diamond. They're not trying to pass them off as diamonds anyway, but if they were I would immediately know they are lying.

From a "looks like a diamond" perspective, CZ is a much better replica. I'll be honest, it would be much harder for me to tell a well cut CZ from a diamond. My mom has a few well cut CZ pieces, and they look pretty darn close. Diamond still has a "depth of field" to it that CZ lacks, if that makes sense, but it's a lot harder to see this unless you're looking up close.

 

[blueMA]

Most definitely. I would never recommend trying to pass off moissanite as diamond. It's a completey different stone with a different "personality." Like I said, I have a few friends with them, and I can tell within about 5 seconds of looking at them that it's not a diamond. They're not trying to pass them off as diamonds anyway, but if they were I would immediately know they are lying.

From a "looks like a diamond" perspective, CZ is a much better replica. I'll be honest, it would be much harder for me to tell a well cut CZ from a diamond. My mom has a few well cut CZ pieces, and they look pretty darn close. Diamond still has a "depth of field" to it that CZ lacks, if that makes sense, but it's a lot harder to see this unless you're looking up close.

I could tell CZs in 3-5 seconds no matter how well they're cut by their facet reflections.

 

[TreeScientist]

I could tell CZs in 3-5 seconds no matter how well they're cut by their facet reflections.

Then you are a much better connoisseur than I. I've seen H&A CZs in person and, like I said, it would take close-up inspection for me to tell a difference. If I was just viewing the CZ from a normal viewing distance and the person told me it was a diamond, I would take them at their word and assume that it is a not-so-well cut diamond, since they don't have quite as much sparkle due to the lower refractive index. I would definitely not have the same "That is NOT a diamond" internal reaction that I would have if someone told me a moissanite was a diamond.

 

[blueMA]

@TreeScientist Look for a lazy fire across a facet - that's sure giveaway besides the fact CZ lacks quick on/off scintillation and laser beams of well cut diamonds, which are also absent in poorly cut diamonds. Recently I went to a local high-end jeweler and spotted a CZ collection under their display case under jewler lighting, and the sales associates were surprised. Well cut (for double refraction) Moissanites are actually more convincing under certain lighting when the disco ball rainbow effects are muted, because they actually have pretty good scintillation.

I'm willing to pay high price for ideal diamonds for their specific scintillating quality and it's still the only gem that grabs my attention across a room with laser fire.

 

[TreeScientist]

@TreeScientist Look for a lazy fire across a facet - that's sure giveaway besides the fact CZ lacks quick on/off scintillation and laser beams of well cut diamonds, which are also absent in poorly cut diamonds. Recently I went to a local high-end jeweler and spotted a CZ collection under their display case under jewler lighting, and the sales associates were surprised. Well cut (for double refraction) Moissanites are actually more convincing under certain lighting when the disco ball rainbow effects are muted, because they actually have pretty good scintillation.

I'm willing to pay high price for ideal diamonds for their specific scintillating quality and it's still the only gem that grabs my attention across a room with laser fire.

I'm not talking about well-cut CZs vs well-cut diamonds. Like I said in my original post, if someone told me that a well-cut CZ was a diamond and I was just causally observing it, I would take them at their word and assume it is just a crappy diamond. I've seen plenty of your typical mall store, I1 clarity "good" cut diamonds (the "Frozen Spit" that is often referred to on this site) that I would say look WORSE than a well-cut CZ. So the fact that a stone lacks sharp scintillation and appears sleepy would not alone lead me to doubt that it is a diamond. Which is why I think CZ is a great replica for crappy diamonds. Plus, it's much cheaper than a mall-store diamond, so I would only spend my money on a well-cut diamond... Because I would rather have the CZ than frozen spit.

The personality of moissanite is different from a diamond with the double refraction, and I have yet to see a moissanite that doesn't have the disco ball effect in normal, everyday lighting. Perhaps there are some situations in dim light (at dusk?) where a moissanite could pass as a diamond, but I still think the CZ is a much better replica if you wanted to "pass it off" as a diamond. But everyone I know with moissantites are not trying to pass them off as diamonds. They are proud of choosing moissanite and have their own reasons for doing so and I agree that moissanites are beautiful in their own way. Which is why I'm hesitant to call moissanite a "diamond replica" like I do with CZ.

But I agree that nothing looks like a well cut diamond with good clarity. Which is also what I choose to spend my money on.

 

[blueMA]

I1 clarity "good" cut diamonds (the "Frozen Spit" that is often referred to on this site) that I would say look WORSE than a well-cut CZ.

I still prefer poorer cut lower clarity diamonds over CZs. My darn eyes could still tell , but then I've been experimenting with various H&A cut CZs for near two decades. I recently tried an $8 pendant on Amazon because it was advertised to be a Zircon out of curiosity, and I found out it was just a CZ. However it was extremely well cut H&A under Idealscope although you could easily tell that it was a machine cut stone under a loupe. It's amazing how Chinese could offer such jewelry at such low price, but the fact that CZs don't have the problem with resistant graining of diamonds helps with the cut consistencies. I could never wear CZs out in public, because I know there are people out there with just as keen eyes.

Perhaps there are some situations in dim light (at dusk?) where a moissanite could pass as a diamond

Yes, only in dim lighting.

 

[chappy]

I think I've got some relevant opinions, because my original e-ring was moissanite and I am now in the process of getting a diamond e-ring!

First of all, don't worry, there's no wrong decision. If your GF likes rings, this will not be her only ring. She can have it all, with time. Neither diamonds nor moissanites are going anywhere!

In my experience, moissanite looked indistinguishable to (my) amateur eyes. Sparkly, bright, fun and lively. Plus, it is super hard, so really survives as an every day ring! HOWEVER. After wearing it every day for years and years, my eyes started noticing how it wasn't as 'sharp' around the edges as my diamond pieces, and it lacked a certain something (depth).

I would recommend getting moissanite in pendants, earrings, clusters, etc. Something that just needs to sparkle as part of an outfit, but not like a solitaire which she will look down at all the time and see in minute detail, getting to know the entire character of the stone. Of course I will take moissanite over 'frozen spit' diamonds any day of the week, as the nature of man-made moissanite means even the worst material will be fairly unflawed, and the extra sparkle masks poor cuts. In nicer stones though...

I've read some article that says our attraction to shiny things may very well have to do with our genetic affinity for water. And I really think diamond mimics the sparkles of sunlight off water better than moissanite, with its depth and crisp quickness.

 

[doberman]

I think you're better off spending the money on the ring than a big party that is over in 5 hours. People here are into diamonds. You're not going to find anyone who is
enthusiastic about moissy. Buying jewelry is a compromise. Give up some size, go up in clarity or color. Go lower in color and get a bigger size. Moissy fills the need for size, but the color, even in the newer stones is not quite right. In photos I can always tell which is which, there's a greenish tint. Different cuts of moissy such as the princess cut do not resemble diamond at all.

I am not into lab stones at all. They seem cold, sterile and boring to me, whereas a real diamond is the result of millions of years of pressure, which i think is mind-blowing. Iin short, I'd get moissy if your gf absolutely has to have a big stone right now. Otherwise you're better off with a diamond. Just my $0.02

 

[sledge]

You know, re-thinking this.....just get a new GF that will like a smaller, more affordable real diamond. Not to mention it will give you time to save & invest some money while you find her replacement, so you can buy a better diamond. See, I fixed it all.

Obviously I am kidding.

I like @doberman's point of "investing" (quotes used for @TreeScientist's sanity, lol) in a diamond instead of a 5 hour party. I cringe thinking about the dollars blown for a wedding. People drop $20k for a party and then their butt cheeks pucker spending $5-7k on a ring that should last a lifetime.

 

[TreeScientist]

You know, re-thinking this.....just get a new GF that will like a smaller, more affordable real diamond. Not to mention it will give you time to save & invest some money while you find her replacement, so you can buy a better diamond. See, I fixed it all.

Obviously I am kidding.

I like @doberman's point of "investing" (quotes used for @TreeScientist's sanity, lol) in a diamond instead of a 5 hour party. I cringe thinking about the dollars blown for a wedding. People drop $20k for a party and then their butt cheeks pucker spending $5-7k on a ring that should last a lifetime.

No need for the quote @sledge, I'm totally with you on the wedding vs diamonds front. I don't view diamonds as a monetary investment, in the same way that I don't view my Levi's as a monetary investment. Both are personal investments, and I calculate return on investment (ROI) for my personal items too (you can tell I'm a hopeless romantic, can't you? ). To me, diamonds have a great personal ROI, because it is something that my girl will be wearing every day for a very long time and will bring her a bit of joy every time she looks at it.

On the other hand, weddings represent an absolutely terrible ROI for me, as the more you spend, the more the wedding seems to suck. The most fun weddings I've been to were also the cheapest: Usually a gathering of close friends in a quiet outdoor location with a cool DJ while having a homemade BBQ in casual clothes. Fancy, large, formal, extravagant weddings are absolutely torturous to me. I'd rather slowly drag my ass across a bed of broken glass than sit through one of those.

Unfortunately, with my girlfriend being Vietnamese, we're having the fancy, large (gigantic), formal, extravagant wedding. I cannot get out of it. There is no alternative. But hey, at least we're having it in her hometown in Vietnam, so this fancy wedding will cost about the same as a low-key affair in the U.S. If anyone wanted me to spend $30-50k on a wedding, well, they would be finding another groom.

Anyway, back to slowly dragging my ass across a bed of broken glass.

 

[blueMA]

It really depends on an individual though. My sister spent some mega bucks on her wedding at the Oheka Castle and spent $8K on her wedding dress alone. The live band (15K), amazing food/cake, the beautiful facility, etc., were all incredible and everyone talks about it till this day, and to some people that's very important.

However that isn't my personality, and I had a much smaller intimate one at a Four Seasons, and it was a memorable one for other types of people who preferred that over the extravagance.

However, if you skimp on the stone, you'll probably regret for a much longer duration...

 

[blueMA]

Of course I will take moissanite over 'frozen spit' diamonds any day of the week, as the nature of man-made moissanite means even the worst material will be fairly unflawed, and the extra sparkle masks poor cuts. In nicer stones though...

Yep.. my tolerance for diamonds drop to the eye clean level or small enough stones with lots of sparkles where the importance of cut drops down. Wouldn't waste money on a noticeable "frozen spit" - lol

Here's my recent impulsively bought AGS certified diamond bands stacked - CZs just won't sparkle like that, ever.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...on-and-diamond-firecracker-bling-ring.240961/

I've read testimonials of many individuals who love their moissanites, and the sparkles can be quite enjoyable under certain lighting where they even seem to have depth... until they don't most of the times.

 

[sledge]

No need for the quote @sledge, I'm totally with you on the wedding vs diamonds front. I don't view diamonds as a monetary investment, in the same way that I don't view my Levi's as a monetary investment. Both are personal investments, and I calculate return on investment (ROI) for my personal items too (you can tell I'm a hopeless romantic, can't you? ). To me, diamonds have a great personal ROI, because it is something that my girl will be wearing every day for a very long time and will bring her a bit of joy every time she looks at it.

On the other hand, weddings represent an absolutely terrible ROI for me, as the more you spend, the more the wedding seems to suck. The most fun weddings I've been to were also the cheapest: Usually a gathering of close friends in a quiet outdoor location with a cool DJ while having a homemade BBQ in casual clothes. Fancy, large, formal, extravagant weddings are absolutely torturous to me. I'd rather slowly drag my ass across a bed of broken glass than sit through one of those.

Unfortunately, with my girlfriend being Vietnamese, we're having the fancy, large (gigantic), formal, extravagant wedding. I cannot get out of it. There is no alternative. But hey, at least we're having it in her hometown in Vietnam, so this fancy wedding will cost about the same as a low-key affair in the U.S. If anyone wanted me to spend $30-50k on a wedding, well, they would be finding another groom.

Anyway, back to slowly dragging my ass across a bed of broken glass.

I don't know @TreeScientist, you sound like a finance nerd to me. Originally I had you pegged for biologist or something along those sorts with your username and technicalities. I say this jokingly of course. Not many people peg me as a finance nerd either but I am -- even got the degree to prove it, lol. I just chose to go kick a little ass before I got educated is all.

Maybe one of these days when there is nothing better to do than watch paint dry and bore these good people we can start a thread on Excel, pivot tables, formulas, ROI, shorting stocks, hedging risks and all that fun stuff.

Putting the nerd stuff aside and the potential loss of investing opportunity, I just don't like the idea of dropping such a large amount of money on a single day. I get it's supposed to be the most special day. And it should be honored no doubt. I just see people lose their heads and dump insane amounts into it. Of course, everyone has different wealth levels and definitions of insane so take that with a grain of salt.

I will say I've been to small, cozy and inexpensive as well as glamourous high dollar weddings, and I always managed to have a good time. To maximize your fun level I would highly recommend never attending one where you have "dated" one or more members of the bridal party in your past life, especially if one or more of them are sisters and even more so if one happens to be the bride. Because no matter how cool you think all parties are, there will likely be alcohol, everyone will become a mathematician and put 2+2 together, apparently old feelings of resentment will crop up and crazy switches start flipping so fast you will think the fluttering noise is the blades of your rescue helo prepping to drop into a hot LZ.

Or, as you like to say, you will really know the true meaning of "getting your ass slowly drug across broken glass".

Good luck on your wedding in Vietnam. It sounds like it will be fun, lol. Seriously, it's cool to be in a different country and culture. Embrace the day and roll with the punches because regardless, you will be there for hours on end anyhow. You might as well make the most of it.

 

[doberman]

No need for the quote @sledge, I'm totally with you on the wedding vs diamonds front. I don't view diamonds as a monetary investment, in the same way that I don't view my Levi's as a monetary investment. Both are personal investments, and I calculate return on investment (ROI) for my personal items too (you can tell I'm a hopeless romantic, can't you? ). To me, diamonds have a great personal ROI, because it is something that my girl will be wearing every day for a very long time and will bring her a bit of joy every time she looks at it.

On the other hand, weddings represent an absolutely terrible ROI for me, as the more you spend, the more the wedding seems to suck.

Why is this? Because it really does seem like every overstuffed, overfrilled $$ wedding I've attended was just meh compared to to the low-key variety.

 

[blueMA]

Why is this? Because it really does seem like every overstuffed, overfrilled $$ wedding I've attended was just meh compared to to the low-key variety.

Perhaps it was the people, not the $ in some cases?

 

[doberman]

Perhaps it was the people, not the $ in some cases?

I'm sure that had a great deal to do with it.

 

[sledge]

Perhaps it was the people, not the $ in some cases?

Absolutely depends on the people. Dated a few nurses over the years, and the worst was parties with the doctors. Ugh. Not saying all them were bad, but many were just walking stiffs.

 

[TreeScientist]

I don't know @TreeScientist, you sound like a finance nerd to me. Originally I had you pegged for biologist or something along those sorts with your username and technicalities. I say this jokingly of course. Not many people peg me as a finance nerd either but I am -- even got the degree to prove it, lol. I just chose to go kick a little ass before I got educated is all.

Maybe one of these days when there is nothing better to do than watch paint dry and bore these good people we can start a thread on Excel, pivot tables, formulas, ROI, shorting stocks, hedging risks and all that fun stuff.

Putting the nerd stuff aside and the potential loss of investing opportunity, I just don't like the idea of dropping such a large amount of money on a single day. I get it's supposed to be the most special day. And it should be honored no doubt. I just see people lose their heads and dump insane amounts into it. Of course, everyone has different wealth levels and definitions of insane so take that with a grain of salt.

I will say I've been to small, cozy and inexpensive as well as glamourous high dollar weddings, and I always managed to have a good time. To maximize your fun level I would highly recommend never attending one where you have "dated" one or more members of the bridal party in your past life, especially if one or more of them are sisters and even more so if one happens to be the bride. Because no matter how cool you think all parties are, there will likely be alcohol, everyone will become a mathematician and put 2+2 together, apparently old feelings of resentment will crop up and crazy switches start flipping so fast you will think the fluttering noise is the blades of your rescue helo prepping to drop into a hot LZ.

Or, as you like to say, you will really know the true meaning of "getting your ass slowly drug across broken glass".

Good luck on your wedding in Vietnam. It sounds like it will be fun, lol. Seriously, it's cool to be in a different country and culture. Embrace the day and roll with the punches because regardless, you will be there for hours on end anyhow. You might as well make the most of it.

I'm a geochemist who loves economics and sees it as a hobby. No formal training in it, but I love learning about behavioral economics and what makes people spend money in certain areas. And I for one believe that everything has an ROI. One just needs to have a way of calculating it.

The bolded statement particularly resonated with me. I know that "a lot of money" is relative depending on one's income. It's the same with engagement rings: A $30k engagement ring is not that much money if you're making $300k per year. But I've seen plenty of middle-class individuals, who have no business dropping $30K on a wedding, blow insane amounts of money on this single day just to "keep up with the Joneses." These also happen to be the weddings that I've despised, which, as eloquently stated by @blueMA, is likely due to the people in attendance. I've found a direct correlation between the amount spent on a wedding and the pretentiousness of those in attendance.

I have no problem spending money on experiences. I have travelled fairly extensively in the last few years after not leaving the U.S. for the first time until 21 years of age, and I would never trade the money spent on travel for anything in the world. But when I travel, I also tend to travel extremely cheaply. My lowest-cost trips have been the most enjoyable. So you won't find me traveling in guided tours or staying in 3 star and up hotels. I love to experience places and cultures the way the people who live there experience them. You'll find me staying in Homestays and CouchSurfing with the locals, roaming around by bicycle and trying (and failing) to speak the local language with people. I've had countless amazing experiences by randomly happening across a group of locals who took me on an amazing adventure. I never would've had such experiences staying at the Radison and following a pasty white tour guide while driving around a city on a Segway. And I also would never have met my fiancee.

Anyway, the point of the rant is that: Spending money to have experiences (traveling, weddings, etc.) is great, but I've found that spending the least amount of money possible to have such experiences usually equates to the most fun. So there's a direct inverse correlation between the cost of experiences and the amount of fun had on said experiences.

...But it's funny the things we will do for love, isn't it?

Me 5 years ago: "I will NEVER have a fancy wedding. What a showboaty, extravagant waste of money. Cheap weddings are just as fun, and imagine the number of shares of VTSAX I could buy with the savings!"

Me now: "I will NEVER have a fancy wedding. What a showboaty, extravagant waste of mo..."

Fiancee (looking at me with puppy-dog eyes): "But I really want to have a fancy wedding."

Me: "Of course we're having a fancy wedding honey. Btw, did you want gold or silver leaf on the wedding invitations?"




P.S. What area of finance did you study in college. I love finding others who enjoy discussing finance and economics. Like you said, not many of us finance nerds out there.

 

[MollyMalone]

@pcarrollg -- have you visited the Laboratory-Grown/Man-made Diamonds (MMD) forum
https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/laboratory-grown-diamonds-man-made-diamonds-mmd.60/
and the fairly new Fabulous Fashion Jewelry forum:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/fabulous-fashion-jewelry.95/
The FFJ forum is currently more active than the MMD one, but you'll see posts in both places from PSers who lead "dual lives" (i.e., aren't diamond-only people) & are more au courant than I am on mined diamond alternatives.

 

[sledge]

I'm a geochemist who loves economics and sees it as a hobby. No formal training in it, but I love learning about behavioral economics and what makes people spend money in certain areas. And I for one believe that everything has an ROI. One just needs to have a way of calculating it.

Very true about everything having a ROI. What I've found to be of particular interest is how people invest in themselves and their time. We are all given 24 hours in a day, but every one chooses very different methods on how to spend that time. Those decisions greatly affect many factors in our lives.

I've had much success in my life in various facets, and it really annoys me when someone states how "lucky" I am. Luck had nothing to do with it brother. Lots of hard work, dedication and grit made all the difference in the world. When they were watching TV I was doing other stuff (that mattered much more to me). So let's not call it luck. Just like that person beating me something horrible in TV trivia would not be luck either. Again, it's where we put our time & energy that yields different results and walks in life.

The bolded statement particularly resonated with me. I know that "a lot of money" is relative depending on one's income. It's the same with engagement rings: A $30k engagement ring is not that much money if you're making $300k per year. But I've seen plenty of middle-class individuals, who have no business dropping $30K on a wedding, blow insane amounts of money on this single day just to "keep up with the Joneses." These also happen to be the weddings that I've despised, which, as eloquently stated by @blueMA, is likely due to the people in attendance. I've found a direct correlation between the amount spent on a wedding and the pretentiousness of those in attendance.

Any "keeping up with the Joneses" event is horribly boring and mind numbing. I have friends that compete with me all the time. Literally got a call the other day from a great friend's wife who said, "sent you pics of the new furniture, check it out!". All within days of me buying new leather furniture. Ugh.

I don't have a secret recipe for you. I normally slam a crown & coke or four back and go into super social style and try to liven the space up. It doesn't always work, but has proven to be fairly effective.

I have no problem spending money on experiences. I have travelled fairly extensively in the last few years after not leaving the U.S. for the first time until 21 years of age, and I would never trade the money spent on travel for anything in the world. But when I travel, I also tend to travel extremely cheaply. My lowest-cost trips have been the most enjoyable. So you won't find me traveling in guided tours or staying in 3 star and up hotels. I love to experience places and cultures the way the people who live there experience them. You'll find me staying in Homestays and CouchSurfing with the locals, roaming around by bicycle and trying (and failing) to speak the local language with people. I've had countless amazing experiences by randomly happening across a group of locals who took me on an amazing adventure. I never would've had such experiences staying at the Radison and following a pasty white tour guide while driving around a city on a Segway. And I also would never have met my fiancee.

Blending in with locals and learning culture is truly the best way to experience a foreign country, especially when you aren't welcome in the first place. I've met a lot of good people from various continents and some I still remain in contact with today. Kudos to you for not just buying a vacation but actually creating an meaningful experience!

Also, sounds like you have a cool story to share on how you met the future Mrs TreeScientist.

Anyway, the point of the rant is that: Spending money to have experiences (traveling, weddings, etc.) is great, but I've found that spending the least amount of money possible to have such experiences usually equates to the most fun. So there's a direct inverse correlation between the cost of experiences and the amount of fun had on said experiences.

Perhaps it's not about the money at all? Anytime we are forced to emotionally connect we are more sensitive to basically everything and it provides a different experience. Some of the worst times of my life is also some of my best experiences.

Money is just a resource. When you have less money and more personality, guess which resource shines? It's no surprise events costing less money shine in different areas when you think of it this way.

...But it's funny the things we will do for love, isn't it?

Me 5 years ago: "I will NEVER have a fancy wedding. What a showboaty, extravagant waste of money. Cheap weddings are just as fun, and imagine the number of shares of VTSAX I could buy with the savings!"

Me now: "I will NEVER have a fancy wedding. What a showboaty, extravagant waste of mo..."

Fiancee (looking at me with puppy-dog eyes): "But I really want to have a fancy wedding."

Me: "Of course we're having a fancy wedding honey. Btw, did you want gold or silver leaf on the wedding invitations?"

LOL, keep this up and I'm going to share similar stories and then the girls here are going to make fun of us and take our man cards away. But yes, it is very funny how it all works.

P.S. What area of finance did you study in college. I love finding others who enjoy discussing finance and economics. Like you said, not many of us finance nerds out there.

I have a concentration in risk management, so things related to managing and hedging risk like options, futures, etc.

 

[blueMA]

Everyone has their own preference on how the money is spent. I don't hesitate dropping large sums of money on great elegant dinners but I clip coupons for groceries and argue over paying a few cents over the labeled prices for nuts & bolts at the Lowes - mostly comes down to the principle.

I have an MS in the finance field (not my only expertise), but I wouldn't feel too comfortable at the aspect of earning a consistent ROI on ETFs or other funds with i rates about to hike. People had it too easy for the last decade, but I got burnt badly during 2008 with my portfolio as optimally diversified as possible. Needless to say, I've gotten much more risk averse. Grr... I sold my shares of AAPL at the historically low price of $79 (before the splits) and it bounced back the day after.
Though my defense stocks quadrupled and made up for some of my loses.
I'm waiting for the next dip with liquid funds stashed away...

Since we're talking about ROI, WTH are we doing here on PS?
Seriously, I need to get back to my more productive regularly scheduled programming...

 

[TreeScientist]

Very true about everything having a ROI. What I've found to be of particular interest is how people invest in themselves and their time. We are all given 24 hours in a day, but every one chooses very different methods on how to spend that time. Those decisions greatly affect many factors in our lives.

I've had much success in my life in various facets, and it really annoys me when someone states how "lucky" I am. Luck had nothing to do with it brother. Lots of hard work, dedication and grit made all the difference in the world. When they were watching TV I was doing other stuff (that mattered much more to me). So let's not call it luck. Just like that person beating me something horrible in TV trivia would not be luck either. Again, it's where we put our time & energy that yields different results and walks in life.



Any "keeping up with the Joneses" event is horribly boring and mind numbing. I have friends that compete with me all the time. Literally got a call the other day from a great friend's wife who said, "sent you pics of the new furniture, check it out!". All within days of me buying new leather furniture. Ugh.

I don't have a secret recipe for you. I normally slam a crown & coke or four back and go into super social style and try to liven the space up. It doesn't always work, but has proven to be fairly effective.



Blending in with locals and learning culture is truly the best way to experience a foreign country, especially when you aren't welcome in the first place. I've met a lot of good people from various continents and some I still remain in contact with today. Kudos to you for not just buying a vacation but actually creating an meaningful experience!

Also, sounds like you have a cool story to share on how you met the future Mrs TreeScientist.



Perhaps it's not about the money at all? Anytime we are forced to emotionally connect we are more sensitive to basically everything and it provides a different experience. Some of the worst times of my life is also some of my best experiences.

Money is just a resource. When you have less money and more personality, guess which resource shines? It's no surprise events costing less money shine in different areas when you think of it this way.



LOL, keep this up and I'm going to share similar stories and then the girls here are going to make fun of us and take our man cards away. But yes, it is very funny how it all works.



I have a concentration in risk management, so things related to managing and hedging risk like options, futures, etc.

To put it briefly, I agree with everything you said. Seems like we have similar outlooks on life. I think that most don't realize that time is our only real asset. Your time can be traded for money in the form of a salary, making money a secondary asset, but the seconds we have on this Earth and what we do with those seconds are the only units that matter. How we spend our time determines who we are and the impact we will leave on this planet when our seconds run out. How we spend our money can influence the ways in which we are able to spend our time, making money management important as well, but money doesn't buy happiness, it buys freedom. Freedom to quit trading our seconds for dollars and do whatever the hell we want to with those seconds instead.

 

[srke]

...But it's funny the things we will do for love, isn't it?

Me 5 years ago: "I will NEVER have a fancy wedding. What a showboaty, extravagant waste of money. Cheap weddings are just as fun, and imagine the number of shares of VTSAX I could buy with the savings!"

Me now: "I will NEVER have a fancy wedding. What a showboaty, extravagant waste of mo..."

Fiancee (looking at me with puppy-dog eyes): "But I really want to have a fancy wedding."

Me: "Of course we're having a fancy wedding honey. Btw, did you want gold or silver leaf on the wedding invitations?"

This sounds very familiar.
Me:let's just sign our name at the registry and we're done.
Him:*starts picking out the napkin rings and lobster forks for the 5th course *