Setting for a little ruby

[Starstruck8]

2. In the meantime, I'd ordered a cheap but functional dichroscope. I looked at the stone when it arrived and ... it's polychroic. The first image below is my stone through my dichroscope; the second image is a randomly selected internet image of (supposed) polychroism in a ruby through a dichroscope. I'm no expert in optics, but as far as I can tell, polychroism entails double refraction (birefringence): that is, if a stone shows polychroism, it is doubly refractive. Rubies (all sapphires) are doubly refractive stones. Glass is singly refractive. Except ...

As a check, do the two colours switch places as you rotate the dichroscope through 90 degrees? (i.e. each colour continuously changes into the other, so that at 45 degrees from maximum colour difference, they are about the same.)

3. There is such a thing as polychroic glass -- glass that does sometimes show
"anomalous birefringence"!

As I understand it, glass can show anomalous birefringence due to strain or flow in manufacture. But, again as I understand it, this won't show up in a dichroscope, nor will it produce visible doubled images, because the birefringence is very small. (It can be seen in a polariscope.)

It's hard for me to imagine that two totally independent jewelers and their refractometers are both wrong. My understanding is that most glass-filled rubies test as rubies on refractometers? But there is still something odd about this stone. If nothing else, it's a really clever, detailed glass fake. In addition to the imperfect cut and the fluorescence, the two specific, separate colors detected in my dichroscope look exactly like the two separate colors shown in the random sample image of a ruby "from the internets."

Yes, this is very puzzling. Refractometers test the material on the surface of the stone, the part that's held against the refractometer. In a glass-filled ruby, I'd expect this to be mostly ruby. But maybe this is wrong?

Like you, I'm puzzled.

 

[Treflo]

As a check, do the two colours switch places as you rotate the dichroscope through 90 degrees? (i.e. each colour continuously changes into the other, so that at 45 degrees from maximum colour difference, they are about the same.)

Yep! That's exactly what happens. Starting at maximum color difference, a 45 degree rotation of the dichroscope makes the colors look about the same; a 90 degree rotation makes the original two colors switch places.

And unless it's really subtle, there are only 2 colors present. So dichroic rather than trichroic.

It's a weird one for sure!

 

[Starstruck8]

Yep! That's exactly what happens. Starting at maximum color difference, a 45 degree rotation of the dichroscope makes the colors look about the same; a 90 degree rotation makes the original two colors switch places.

And unless it's really subtle, there are only 2 colors present. So dichroic rather than trichroic.

It's a weird one for sure!

That's pretty definitive for genuine double refraction (as you would expect to see in ruby), not just the anomalous double refraction that you might expect to see in glass.

Maybe it's a doublet, with a ruby pavilion and a glass crown? Though I can't imagine why anyone would do that - I'm just getting desperate to think of an explanation!

 

[Treflo]

That's pretty definitive for genuine double refraction (as you would expect to see in ruby), not just the anomalous double refraction that you might expect to see in glass.

Maybe it's a doublet, with a ruby pavilion and a glass crown? Though I can't imagine why anyone would do that - I'm just getting desperate to think of an explanation!

Thanks so much for confirming the double refraction -- I'm a total non-expert googling my way through this!

And yeah, after your reply, I grabbed my loupes and looked as closely as I could for a crown/doublet. Didn't see anything that might indicate that, and neither jeweler mentioned anything. Not that it's that hard to stump a non-expert, but I'm stumped. Thanks again for your help!

 

[ShinyPink]

This is such a crappy way to begin your gem journey! Have you contacted the seller?

Don't let this deter you. You've learned a lot. Don't forget we can always help you when you are ready to find a real stunner!

 

[Treflo]

This is such a crappy way to begin your gem journey! Have you contacted the seller?

Don't let this deter you. You've learned a lot. Don't forget we can always help you when you are ready to find a real stunner!

Thanks very much for the commiseration and the encouragement! It does feel a bit unfortunate to have fallen in love with a fake ... The seller was super apologetic and I'll be able to return the stone in the next few weeks.

I guess the good news is that I get to keep looking, though! Just have to adjust my expectations so that I don't let the glass stone set the standard for what I find. It's an idiosyncratic search -- only pre-owned stones (sentimental reasons), only in the "small but mighty" category (~0.6 ct.), bursting with color. If I find other contenders, I'll definitely come back for advice!

 

[Starstruck8]

Thanks very much for the commiseration and the encouragement! It does feel a bit unfortunate to have fallen in love with a fake ... The seller was super apologetic and I'll be able to return the stone in the next few weeks.

I guess the good news is that I get to keep looking, though! Just have to adjust my expectations so that I don't let the glass stone set the standard for what I find. It's an idiosyncratic search -- only pre-owned stones (sentimental reasons), only in the "small but mighty" category (~0.6 ct.), bursting with color. If I find other contenders, I'll definitely come back for advice!

This is still a puzzle. Your stone (a) fluoresces red, (b) shows visible double refraction and (c) shows clear dichroism. This seems hard to explain if it is only glass (though it could contain glass).

It's good that the seller will take it back - that's surely the best outcome. But part of me wants to get to the bottom of the mystery - at your effort and expense, of course! I'm wondering whether you would feel comfortable mentioning the fluorescence and dichroism to one or both of the jewellers, to see what they say. For example, maybe they meant glass-filled, not simply glass. (But bear in mind that many jewellers, even if they are G. G. Gemmologists, aren't very knowledgeable about coloured stones.) Of course, if you'd rather close the book, forget the whole episode and start afresh, I quite understand.

The positive outcome from this is that you have acquired a UV flashlight and a dichroscope, and learned how to spot double refraction directly. A bit of DIY gemmology is always handy.

 

[newtojewels]

I'm sorry for how this ended up... how disappointing! I'm glad you can get a refund.

I don't know your budget or personal style, but our member @CBianco has had several "Jedi" spinel pieces (I bought a loose one from her preloved but haven't set it yet). I was following this thread for inspiration for that stone, actually! She has a bracelet for sale now and in general spinels are much less heavily treated than rubies. She also has a ring with a small-but-mighty Paraiba tourmaline. I thought of these both as completed projects in your stone size range, but obviously there's a whole world of gems and settings out there! You'll find something you love and that feels 'mind clean'!

 

[Treflo]

This is still a puzzle. Your stone (a) fluoresces red, (b) shows visible double refraction and (c) shows clear dichroism. This seems hard to explain if it is only glass (though it could contain glass).

It's good that the seller will take it back - that's surely the best outcome. But part of me wants to get to the bottom of the mystery - at your effort and expense, of course! I'm wondering whether you would feel comfortable mentioning the fluorescence and dichroism to one or both of the jewellers, to see what they say. For example, maybe they meant glass-filled, not simply glass. (But bear in mind that many jewellers, even if they are G. G. Gemmologists, aren't very knowledgeable about coloured stones.) Of course, if you'd rather close the book, forget the whole episode and start afresh, I quite understand.

The positive outcome from this is that you have acquired a UV flashlight and a dichroscope, and learned how to spot double refraction directly. A bit of DIY gemmology is always handy.

Confession: I'm a sucker for a mystery. There's one more thing I'm going to try to sort this out before returning the stone. I might update next week if there's any news.

 

[Treflo]

I'm sorry for how this ended up... how disappointing! I'm glad you can get a refund.

I don't know your budget or personal style, but our member @CBianco has had several "Jedi" spinel pieces (I bought a loose one from her preloved but haven't set it yet). I was following this thread for inspiration for that stone, actually! She has a bracelet for sale now and in general spinels are much less heavily treated than rubies. She also has a ring with a small-but-mighty Paraiba tourmaline. I thought of these both as completed projects in your stone size range, but obviously there's a whole world of gems and settings out there! You'll find something you love and that feels 'mind clean'!

Thanks very much for the suggestions and the encouragement!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

@Treflo im a bit shocked how this has turned out

 

[Treflo]

Another update:

I got a 30x loupe and some invaluable help from an expert who wishes to remain anonymous.

It’s NOT glass. It’s a synthetic ruby.

I was able to observe the identification process this time, and the refractometer clearly indicated corundum, NOT glass. I’d already found the classic curved striae with my new stronger loupe and the expert confirmed with their microscope.

I don’t know what happened at the previous two jewelers, but I’m much more confident in this last opinion because it makes sense of all the (other) evidence I have.

For educational purposes: see a picture of the curved striae through my 30x loupe and a fluorescence comparison with two other (confirmed natural) rubies — the synthetic in question is on the far right.

This whole process has been fun and also concerning. For the price, I’m going to keep this stone, both for the story and for future reference. But now I’m not sure who to trust with the future ruby that I actually want for the project I have in mind. Glass and synthetic ruby are not the same thing. I had no idea that reputable local jewelers could make such a significant error (multiple times!). So I’m going to have to do a lot more research before I find someone I can have confidence in with my future stone.

Tagging @Starstruck8 for their interest.

 

[Treflo]

@Treflo im a bit shocked how this has turned out

Thanks for empathizing. It’s been a wild ride!

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Sorry your ruby is synthetic and thanks for sharing your experience with us. It's been very educational. If you are interested- here is a ruby from Multicolour Gems that might be interesting to you. It's just under a carat, untreated and has a very nice pink/red color for under $400.
https://www.multicolour.com/detail/?879635704

 

[Avondale]

But now I’m not sure who to trust with the future ruby that I actually want for the project I have in mind. Glass and synthetic ruby are not the same thing. I had no idea that reputable local jewelers could make such a significant error (multiple times!). So I’m going to have to do a lot more research before I find someone I can have confidence in with my future stone.

Yes, you've just experienced first hand what a minefield buying ruby can be. But you've got a far better handle on this than many people. If I had to make a bet, I'd say you will eventually own one hell of a ruby. And when you do, I hope you'll remember to share the story and a couple of pictures with us.

 

[Treflo]

Sorry your ruby is synthetic and thanks for sharing your experience with us. It's been very educational. If you are interested- here is a ruby from Multicolour Gems that might be interesting to you. It's just under a carat, untreated and has a very nice pink/red color for under $400.
https://www.multicolour.com/detail/?879635704

Thanks very much! I'm definitely partial to the pinkish-reds

One of the extra-challenging pieces of this project is that I'm committed to buying a pre-owned stone (not necessarily antique or loose, could be contemporary or already set). So I'm buckling up for a long ride ...

 

[Treflo]

Yes, you've just experienced first hand what a minefield buying ruby can be. But you've got a far better handle on this than many people. If I had to make a bet, I'd say you will eventually own one hell of a ruby. And when you do, I hope you'll remember to share the story and a couple of pictures with us.

Thank you for the encouragement! "One hell of a ruby" is a pretty high standard around these parts, but I'd love to do just that If it happens, I'll stop by to share details.

 

[Starstruck8]

Another update:

I got a 30x loupe and some invaluable help from an expert who wishes to remain anonymous.

It’s NOT glass. It’s a synthetic ruby.

I was able to observe the identification process this time, and the refractometer clearly indicated corundum, NOT glass. I’d already found the classic curved striae with my new stronger loupe and the expert confirmed with their microscope.

I don’t know what happened at the previous two jewelers, but I’m much more confident in this last opinion because it makes sense of all the (other) evidence I have.

For educational purposes: see a picture of the curved striae through my 30x loupe and a fluorescence comparison with two other (confirmed natural) rubies — the synthetic in question is on the far right.

This whole process has been fun and also concerning. For the price, I’m going to keep this stone, both for the story and for future reference. But now I’m not sure who to trust with the future ruby that I actually want for the project I have in mind. Glass and synthetic ruby are not the same thing. I had no idea that reputable local jewelers could make such a significant error (multiple times!). So I’m going to have to do a lot more research before I find someone I can have confidence in with my future stone.

Tagging @Starstruck8 for their interest.

Thank you for the update. I'm sorry the stone turned out to be synthetic.

But it's good that you followed through and found an answer. And, of course, I'm pleased that DIY gemmology has been vindicated! I was worried that I might have started you on a wild goose chase.

It's a worry that both jewellers were wrong. Granted, jewellers, even if they have completed a gemmology course, are not always as knowledgeable as they should be about coloured stones. Presidium testers are notoriously unreliable. But to use a refractometer and get the wrong answer - that's a serious worry. I guess that's why the standard advice is to rely only on a report from a reputable gem lab.

Thank you for sharing your journey with us. LIke @Avondale, I'm sure you will find your dream ruby.

 

[Treflo]

Thank you for the update. I'm sorry the stone turned out to be synthetic.

But it's good that you followed through and found an answer. And, of course, I'm pleased that DIY gemmology has been vindicated! I was worried that I might have started you on a wild goose chase.

It's a worry that both jewellers were wrong. Granted, jewellers, even if they have completed a gemmology course, are not always as knowledgeable as they should be about coloured stones. Presidium testers are notoriously unreliable. But to use a refractometer and get the wrong answer - that's a serious worry. I guess that's why the standard advice is to rely only on a report from a reputable gem lab.

Thank you for sharing your journey with us. LIke @Avondale, I'm sure you will find your dream ruby.

Thanks so much for your help and suggestions! I learned a ton. Not quite in the way I'd have chosen to learn it, but it's been very educational. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share their ideas, experience, and advice with me. Plus I've got a DIY gemology toolkit started now! So, overall, I've come out not too badly in the end.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Thanks so much for your help and suggestions! I learned a ton. Not quite in the way I'd have chosen to learn it, but it's been very educational. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share their ideas, experience, and advice with me. Plus I've got a DIY gemology toolkit started now! So, overall, I've come out not too badly in the end.

I loved following this thread. Thanks all for the education.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

@Treflo i read about this the other night and thought of you and your ruby
The rubies on this piece are antique synthetic

King Charles III Tracked Down a $44,000 Royal Heirloom for Queen Camilla’s Personal Jewelry Collection

King Charles III tracked down an heirloom tiara and gave the special accessory to Queen Camilla for her collection. Here are the details on the crown and its significance to the queen’s family, according to London-based jewelry company Steven Stone’s publication, “Crisscut Magazine,” on April 9...

www.brides.com

 

[Treflo]

@Treflo i read about this the other night and thought of you and your ruby
The rubies on this piece are antique synthetic

King Charles III Tracked Down a $44,000 Royal Heirloom for Queen Camilla’s Personal Jewelry Collection

King Charles III tracked down an heirloom tiara and gave the special accessory to Queen Camilla for her collection. Here are the details on the crown and its significance to the queen’s family, according to London-based jewelry company Steven Stone’s publication, “Crisscut Magazine,” on April 9...

www.brides.com

I don't know much about British royal jewelry, but it's super interesting to think about the history of this piece and the history of attitudes toward synthetic colored stones. I should say for the record that I have nothing at all against synthetic gemstones! It's not what I'm looking for right now, but no doubt they can be gorgeous (and I've been following this thread with interest). I can definitely see myself setting this little one sometime in the future, because the color really does make my heart sing, as they say

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I don't know much about British royal jewelry, but it's super interesting to think about the history of this piece and the history of attitudes toward synthetic colored stones. I should say for the record that I have nothing at all against synthetic gemstones! It's not what I'm looking for right now, but no doubt they can be gorgeous (and I've been following this thread with interest). I can definitely see myself setting this little one sometime in the future, because the color really does make my heart sing, as they say

i have since read the King finds it funny to buy up these pieces for Queen Cam - i mean i would not say no

back on topic ...
Has the vendor offered it to you at a much reduced price ?
its just you loved it so much before, my heart broke for both you and the stone when she turned out to be man made

ive been watching that thread too

did i tell you about this old ring i found in mum's stuff ?
it was a huge size so no way was it mum's or grandma's or any of grandma's sisters, i had never seen it before, it looked like brass
but after i cleaned it, it turned out to be 9K rose gold, it had a very pretty pink 'stone' in it
anyway there was the hint of a chance it could have been a man made pink tourmalin -
or a piece of pretty glass,
but the cut on it is just so pretty and i loved the setting
(turns out the setting needs a lot of prong work and my motto for this year is 'get stuff wearable for as little cost as possible' -because i want to start new projects)

at least it only cost me $5 to find out it was just a piece of pretty glass

but Im going to get a bale put on it and make it into a fun little pendant to go on a cheap strand of pearls, just because i love that piece of pink glass (i dont even like pink !)

 

[Treflo]

i have since read the King finds it funny to buy up these pieces for Queen Cam - i mean i would not say no

back on topic ...
Has the vendor offered it to you at a much reduced price ?
its just you loved it so much before, my heart broke for both you and the stone when she turned out to be man made

ive been watching that thread too

did i tell you about this old ring i found in mum's stuff ?
it was a huge size so no way was it mum's or grandma's or any of grandma's sisters, i had never seen it before, it looked like brass
but after i cleaned it, it turned out to be 9K rose gold, it had a very pretty pink 'stone' in it
anyway there was the hint of a chance it could have been a man made pink tourmalin -
or a piece of pretty glass,
but the cut on it is just so pretty and i loved the setting
(turns out the setting needs a lot of prong work and my motto for this year is 'get stuff wearable for as little cost as possible' -because i want to start new projects)

at least it only cost me $5 to find out it was just a piece of pretty glass

but Im going to get a bale put on it and make it into a fun little pendant to go on a cheap strand of pearls, just because i love that piece of pink glass (i dont even like pink !)

That's a great story! Sometimes we just love what we love, right? And then we make adjustments from there. It's great that you get to keep enjoying something of your mom's.

As for the vendor: They seemed to appreciate my information about the stone and were very apologetic about the whole thing. We're still discussing what to do next, but I'm keeping this stone, so no real complaints there.

 

[Mreader]

Another update:

I got a 30x loupe and some invaluable help from an expert who wishes to remain anonymous.

It’s NOT glass. It’s a synthetic ruby.

I was able to observe the identification process this time, and the refractometer clearly indicated corundum, NOT glass. I’d already found the classic curved striae with my new stronger loupe and the expert confirmed with their microscope.

I don’t know what happened at the previous two jewelers, but I’m much more confident in this last opinion because it makes sense of all the (other) evidence I have.

For educational purposes: see a picture of the curved striae through my 30x loupe and a fluorescence comparison with two other (confirmed natural) rubies — the synthetic in question is on the far right.

This whole process has been fun and also concerning. For the price, I’m going to keep this stone, both for the story and for future reference. But now I’m not sure who to trust with the future ruby that I actually want for the project I have in mind. Glass and synthetic ruby are not the same thing. I had no idea that reputable local jewelers could make such a significant error (multiple times!). So I’m going to have to do a lot more research before I find someone I can have confidence in with my future stone.

Tagging @Starstruck8 for their interest.

How could they determine it to be synthetic as opposed to natural?

 

[Treflo]

How could they determine it to be synthetic as opposed to natural?

Good question. I’m no expert! But in this case it was three factors: (1) it tested as corundum on the refractometer (so some kind of ruby, not glass or spinel or tourmaline); (2) it has internal curved striae — the lines pictured above — that are completely regular throughout the stone and that cross facets, which means they aren’t polish lines; (3) it’s a pretty clean stone except for some small gas bubbles down by the cutlet, and apparently, to a trained eye, they’re characteristically synthetic inclusions, not natural ones. I hope that makes sense!

 

[Mreader]

Good question. I’m no expert! But in this case it was three factors: (1) it tested as corundum on the refractometer (so some kind of ruby, not glass or spinel or tourmaline); (2) it has internal curved striae — the lines pictured above — that are completely regular throughout the stone and that cross facets, which means they aren’t polish lines; (3) it’s a pretty clean stone except for some small gas bubbles down by the cutlet, and apparently, to a trained eye, they’re characteristically synthetic inclusions, not natural ones. I hope that makes sense!

Yes! Very educational indeed.

 

[LightBright]

I love your heart shaped ruby. Color cut size I think it’s special. Even if it’s labmade I still like it. I hope you figure out a beautiful setting and wear it. Just had to drop in and say that…

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

now that we are all hopefully over the shock that its not natural im so excitted you decided to keep it
and i really look forward to seeing it in a seeing on your finger

 

[Avondale]

@Treflo Just in case I'm dropping it here as well: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ruby-and-diamond-ring-platinum-size-5-75-6.282974/