Shootings at UCSB

[TooPatient]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

What about the man who took guys out to test drive his truck and was murdered? I'm sure if you look, you will rind that there are murders, rapes, assaults, etch in both those countries.

 

[Laila619]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

What about the man who took guys out to test drive his truck and was murdered? I'm sure if you look, you will rind that there are murders, rapes, assaults, etch in both those countries.

Yes, of course, but they don't have much murder via handgun or other assault rifle. You just don't hear of mass shootings regularly like you do in the U.S. I'd take my chances with an assailant's knife over a gun any day.

 

[Indylady]

Hi,

How about we limit by law "gun production". In the medical prefession, there is a categtory called "controlled substances", which requires a special script from the doc to the pharmacy and seems to work to prevent unintended uses. We need a much stricter "needs policy" for owning a gun.Perhaps hunters could go to a rental facility when they wanted to hunt game, and return the gun to the facility. To molify gun owners now, we start this process in 2015. All present gun ownership stays the same.

Yes, some companies might go out of business, but when your product has lost its market, you go out of business. Stop the source.
Then call in the National guard in the terrorist zones to collect guns from the criminals. The Gov't spys on us everyday, and collects info they ought not have, and they do it, they say, constitutionally. So, under the terrorism act, they can start protecting their own citizens.

I also want to remind people that we have had problems in the past. The west was won by jailing and killing the criminals who stole horses, cattle, and shot people at the drop of a hat. We did have heros then. Wyatt Earp, Wild Bill Hickock, elliot Ness, and a modern day Rudy Juliani. They made places safe for people. It will take drastic measures, and more police authority, just like the marshalls had or took, in the old times. We had the same constitution then.

It may sound silly and far fetched, but its going to take a big change tp get anywhere. .

Annette

Your post doesn't sound silly--it sounds absolutely insane. I think you do not understand the implications of your words. What you suggest goes against the Second Amendment and Fourth Amendment, foundational principles of this country. Government spying and surveillance, in many instances, has been found to be unconstitutional and resulted in change of policy and program. How could you say that shooting people at the drop of a hat makes a country 'safer'? How is that safer?

 

[TooPatient]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

What about the man who took guys out to test drive his truck and was murdered? I'm sure if you look, you will rind that there are murders, rapes, assaults, etch in both those countries.

Yes, of course, but they don't have much murder via handgun or other assault rifle. You just don't hear of mass shootings regularly like you do in the U.S. I'd take my chances with an assailant's knife over a gun any day.

Read the regulations but especially the last paragraph that covers violence and homicide occurrence : link
(I don't rely on Wikipedia, but it is an adequate short summary)
Note also that they actually ended some of the registration requirements just a year or two ago.

Knives aren't all that much better. Here is the story of a high school student who slashed a LOT of students. If he'd been a little "better" at it, they could easily have been fatalities like happened in China here.


We need to address what is causing people to do this sort of thing. Guns are just a tool being misused by some very messed up people. Owners need to take responsibility for keeping their own guns secure but the bigger issue is why people are resorting to killings like this. If you take the guns, they will still use knives or swords or rocks or chains or chemicals or whatever else they can find.


ETA: If I'm not mistaken, China has strict gun laws. Take a look at thislisting of school attacks from just 2010-2012. At least 25 dead and 125 injured without a gun in sight.

 

[aljdewey]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

They don't have any issues, huh? Wonder what these were, then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton_Centennial_Secondary_School_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_University_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lortie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Lake_murders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Pius_X_High_School_shooting
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canad...-but-rising-gun-violence-disturbing-1.1129887
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/06/02/shooting-at-canada-mall-leaves-1-dead-others-injured/

Those above are all Canada.

Since Australia's gun reform in 2006, they've just found another method - now they just burn people to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires#Central_Gippsland_fires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers_Hill_Nursing_Home_Fire#Nursing_home_fire

I don't know if I'd agree with the "no issues" contention myself.

Moreover.......Harvard (yes, THE Harvard) did a gun study, and the outcome was that not only do gun bans not reduce the murder rate...they may actually increase it.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

 

[redwood66]

I am behind in all the posts because I have had to work today.

First - I thoroughly enjoy my guns, going to the range, competitions, day out shooting in the woods with my DH. We shoot as a family, my sons too when they are home. They were raised with guns and are very proficient. It is our hobby not just for protection. We hunt for meat because we enjoy it. I DO NOT live in fear of anything and I feel sorry for those that do. It is a waste of your life and the awesome but short time we have here on this earth. Personal protection and how you choose to do it is your responsibility as mine is for me.

Second - Many that are making assumptions about the US that live in another country and they do not have a grasp on what the US Constitution is or what it provides the US citizens. Nothing else like it exists in the world. Not anywhere. So any comparison of the US to another country as far as freedoms are concerned is comparing apples to celery.

Third - Law abiding citizens abide by the law and criminals do not - Period. Changing the law will not make those lowlifes follow the rules. But it will hinder the ability of the law abiding citizen to protect their life and their property.

 

[aljdewey]

I always get such a kick out of it when people hold up Australia as the country that the U.S. should be compared against.

Australia shares national borders with...............no one. Right.

United States shares national borders with two countries, one of which is Mexico.........one of the most abject lawless environments I can think of. Rampant poverty, which fuels an incredibly active drug trade.........which means guns.

When Australia splits in half, putting mostly the poverty stricken on one side and putting the "haves" on the other side.......and replicates the lawless environment of Mexico on the poverty designated half of Australia, I will perhaps then be inclined to consider 'comparisons' as anywhere relevant.

 

[Laila619]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

They don't have any issues, huh? Wonder what these were, then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton_Centennial_Secondary_School_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_University_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lortie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Lake_murders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Pius_X_High_School_shooting
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canad...-but-rising-gun-violence-disturbing-1.1129887
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/06/02/shooting-at-canada-mall-leaves-1-dead-others-injured/

Those above are all Canada.

Since Australia's gun reform in 2006, they've just found another method - now they just burn people to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires#Central_Gippsland_fires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers_Hill_Nursing_Home_Fire#Nursing_home_fire

I don't know if I'd agree with the "no issues" contention myself.

Moreover.......Harvard (yes, THE Harvard) did a gun study, and the outcome was that not only do gun bans not reduce the murder rate...they may actually increase it.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Let me rephrase--they don't have nearly the amount of issues the U.S. has with gun violence and mass shootings.

 

[Laila619]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

What about the man who took guys out to test drive his truck and was murdered? I'm sure if you look, you will rind that there are murders, rapes, assaults, etch in both those countries.

Yes, of course, but they don't have much murder via handgun or other assault rifle. You just don't hear of mass shootings regularly like you do in the U.S. I'd take my chances with an assailant's knife over a gun any day.

Read the regulations but especially the last paragraph that covers violence and homicide occurrence : link
(I don't rely on Wikipedia, but it is an adequate short summary)
Note also that they actually ended some of the registration requirements just a year or two ago.

Knives aren't all that much better. Here is the story of a high school student who slashed a LOT of students. If he'd been a little "better" at it, they could easily have been fatalities like happened in China here.


We need to address what is causing people to do this sort of thing. Guns are just a tool being misused by some very messed up people. Owners need to take responsibility for keeping their own guns secure but the bigger issue is why people are resorting to killings like this. If you take the guns, they will still use knives or swords or rocks or chains or chemicals or whatever else they can find.

Great, but how? Just start locking up anyone who exhibits weird behavior or mental issues? The reality is that there are plenty of kids who will grow up with negligent parents or in violent, abusive environments. Kids who weren't taught morals and who don't have a conscience. How can we prevent that? By the time these kids are teenagers, it's already way too late.

 

[mayerling]

There are mentally ill people everywhere. This sort of thing tends to happen in the US most often. It astonishes me that Americans don't see the connection between violent crimes and lack of gun control.

 

[JulieN]

United States shares national borders with two countries, one of which is Mexico.........one of the most abject lawless environments I can think of. Rampant poverty, which fuels an incredibly active drug trade.........which means guns.

We could end the war on drugs, legalise marijuana, make illicit drug use safer, and put drug addicts into treatment instead of prison.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2014/05/drugs-policy

 

[TooPatient]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

What about the man who took guys out to test drive his truck and was murdered? I'm sure if you look, you will rind that there are murders, rapes, assaults, etch in both those countries.

Yes, of course, but they don't have much murder via handgun or other assault rifle. You just don't hear of mass shootings regularly like you do in the U.S. I'd take my chances with an assailant's knife over a gun any day.

Read the regulations but especially the last paragraph that covers violence and homicide occurrence : link
(I don't rely on Wikipedia, but it is an adequate short summary)
Note also that they actually ended some of the registration requirements just a year or two ago.

Knives aren't all that much better. Here is the story of a high school student who slashed a LOT of students. If he'd been a little "better" at it, they could easily have been fatalities like happened in China here.


We need to address what is causing people to do this sort of thing. Guns are just a tool being misused by some very messed up people. Owners need to take responsibility for keeping their own guns secure but the bigger issue is why people are resorting to killings like this. If you take the guns, they will still use knives or swords or rocks or chains or chemicals or whatever else they can find.

Great, but how? Just start locking up anyone who exhibits weird behavior or mental issues? The reality is that there are plenty of kids who will grow up with negligent parents or in violent, abusive environments. Kids who weren't taught morals and who don't have a conscience. How can we prevent that? By the time these kids are teenagers, it's already way too late.

I don't think there is a simple answer. Clearly, you can't lock people up as prevention (great movie is Minority Report) and I'd be in a lot of trouble if kids were judged based on parents...

The resources to help those in need are not enough and poorly used. I've seen too many people need help and die because of the wait. I don't know how to fix this. Getting the legal and health systems improved would seem to be a good start. The system is too easily manipulated harming those who need help and those who are being falsely accused. I also have a hard time accepting any system that charges $10,000 for a 20 minute MRI...let alone the 25 minute MRI at $40,000. We were dang lucky to have insurance "negotiated" rates that cut that to a fraction. We don't need a government run system, but we do need some reasonable accountability so people can afford treatments of all forms.

Another big issue is that people aren't taught to take responsibility for their actions. How often do you hear that it wasn't a person's fault because they were drunk or tired or PMSing or whatever? I often read interviews or discussions with people who are murdered and they often say it wasn't their fault because they were angry. So? I get angry too but you don't see me out killing people.

I know it isn't the full thing, but it would be a start.


If you blame the tool only, it won't be long before swords or knives or axes are banned and the killings continue.

 

[redwood66]

There is nothing more I can say that will get the point across. The lack of respect for human life and no moral values coupled with rampant drug use and mental instability will be the problem until people take responsibility for their actions or are imprisoned.

That is it.

 

[justginger]

People keep saying that criminals won't obey the gun restrictions and that the honest law-abiding citizens will be in danger, but no one can have guns in Australia or Canada and they don't have any issues. Why is that?

They don't have any issues, huh? Wonder what these were, then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton_Centennial_Secondary_School_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_University_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lortie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Lake_murders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Pius_X_High_School_shooting
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canad...-but-rising-gun-violence-disturbing-1.1129887
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/06/02/shooting-at-canada-mall-leaves-1-dead-others-injured/

Those above are all Canada.

Since Australia's gun reform in 2006, they've just found another method - now they just burn people to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires#Central_Gippsland_fires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers_Hill_Nursing_Home_Fire#Nursing_home_fire

I don't know if I'd agree with the "no issues" contention myself.

Moreover.......Harvard (yes, THE Harvard) did a gun study, and the outcome was that not only do gun bans not reduce the murder rate...they may actually increase it.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

The Black Saturday fires were primarily started on accident - lighting, power tools, downed lines. Of the dozens of fires and hundreds of deaths, exactly two were found to be arson - one of which was lit by a couple of kids - and resulted in 12 deaths. How in the world that could be presented as an equivalency of the pre-meditated, rage-fueled, shooting classmates and strangers point-blank mass murder trend in the US boggles my mind.

The US has a very serious problem. Grasping at straws for examples to show that other countries, with vastly lower rates of violet crime, have problems too is an ineffective way of handling the situation. You can always find isolated cases of everything -- but statistics don't lie. 5700% higher murder rates in the States is not balanced out by a couple of deliberately lit bushfires in Australia.

I like Julie's ideas of how to remove a good number of the gun-related crimes surrounding the illicit drug industry.

 

[justginger]

There is nothing more I can say that will get the point across. The lack of respect for human life and no moral values coupled with rampant drug use and mental instability will be the problem until people take responsibility for their actions or are imprisoned.

That is it.

From an objective point of view, I see two possibilities.

First is the possibility that the ease of obtaining a firearm in the US, through legal means or stealing/'borrowing' from someone who did obtain it legally, has significantly contributed to the shameful violent crime statistics.

And second, there is now something inherently wrong with Americans, on a large scale. They are more mentally ill, less moral, angrier people than anyone else in the developed world.

I prefer to think it is a case of easy access versus national mental instability. It seems you would explain the alarmingly high violent crime rates on the second possible cause?

 

[redwood66]

There is nothing more I can say that will get the point across. The lack of respect for human life and no moral values coupled with rampant drug use and mental instability will be the problem until people take responsibility for their actions or are imprisoned.

That is it.

From an objective point of view, I see two possibilities.

First is the possibility that the ease of obtaining a firearm in the US, through legal means or stealing/'borrowing' from someone who did obtain it legally, has significantly contributed to the shameful violent crime statistics.

And second, there is now something inherently wrong with Americans, on a large scale. They are more mentally ill, less moral, angrier people than anyone else in the developed world.

I prefer to think it is a case of easy access versus national mental instability. It seems you would explain the alarmingly high violent crime rates on the second possible cause?

As I stated previously you cannot compare the US to another country. And it seems that foreigners think you cannot walk down a street without being shot at or robbed raped etc. There is nothing I can tell you that will change your mind that we are crazy lunatic gun lovers and I am tired of trying. Thanks.

I will continue to be my happy gun, bling, family loving self and enjoy my life in the US.

 

[MollyMalone]

Moreover.......Harvard (yes, THE Harvard) did a gun study, and the outcome was that not only do gun bans not reduce the murder rate...they may actually increase it.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Clarification: Harvard University did not undertake such a study. That's a 2007 article that appeared in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, which is published by a student organization, the Harvard Society for Law & Public Policy. From their web site:
The Journal is one of the most widely circulated student-edited law reviews and the nation’s leading forum for conservative and libertarian legal scholarship
http://www.harvard-jlpp.com/about/

The authors are Don Kates, then with the Pacific Institute, now at the Independent Institute, and Gary Mauser, a former Business Administration professor in Canada, whose academic niche was political marketing & who, more recently ,has been a spokesman for the Canadian counterpart of the NRA. I have some problems with the scholarship and the manner in which the article is presented, but it's important to note that they do not contend correlation = causation (that often happens when such topics get "translated" by the blogosphere and other media for the general public).

Here's the Conclusion in their own words:

The burden of proof rests on the proponents of the "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death"mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.


                

 

[Maria D]

... And it seems that foreigners think you cannot walk down a street without being shot at or robbed raped etc. There is nothing I can tell you that will change your mind that we are crazy lunatic gun lovers and I am tired of trying. Thanks.

I will continue to be my happy gun, bling, family loving self and enjoy my life in the US.

Huh? I'm reading this same thread and my perception is that that it's certain U.S. citizens who think you can't walk down a street without being shot at, raped, etc.

Movie Zombie takes me to task for not having a plan to protect myself. Too Patient said something about getting raped and watching my daughter be raped too. I live in the same country as they do, but have a completely different perception and experience. I pretty much feel safe all the time.

I've never been, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't find it relaxing to go shooting at a range. I don't get into shoot-em-up video games either. Do I think that all people who like to do these things are crazy and dangerous? Absolutely not. I'd have to turn my own husband in for all the people he's murdered on Halo, lol.

But, some people are crazy and dangerous and like guns. Or maybe just crazy and dangerous and have easy access to guns, I don't know. I no longer worry about it. My new take on it is that victims of mass shootings are like victims of natural disasters.

Society that exacerbates mental health problems + medical system that fails to address mental health problems adequately + 2nd Amendment + easy access to guns = natural disaster. It's about as infrequent and random as getting struck by lightning, but it's gonna happen.

 

[redwood66]

... And it seems that foreigners think you cannot walk down a street without being shot at or robbed raped etc. There is nothing I can tell you that will change your mind that we are crazy lunatic gun lovers and I am tired of trying. Thanks.

I will continue to be my happy gun, bling, family loving self and enjoy my life in the US.

Huh? I'm reading this same thread and my perception is that that it's certain U.S. citizens who think you can't walk down a street without being shot at, raped, etc.

Some people here might feel that way but I do not. Maybe if I lived in an inner city I would but I choose not to live in those places. I can choose to protect myself without living in fear. Right? You cannot choose the time or place you would be attacked but you can surely choose not to be in the likely places it would happen.

ETA - I am pretty sure I would not find it relaxing to watch a tennis match or a round of golf or any number of other boring ass sports. I do not like football, basketball, baseball. Love hockey! Good thing we don't have to all love the same things! Oh and my new hobby if I can train my horse is mounted shooting! Yay the two things I love most!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi.

hi, Indy lady-- I think you may have misread what I wrote, or I wasn't clear enough. I was referring to the taming of the wild, wild west, where people were shot at the drop of a hat. Lawmen, like Wyatt Earp, et al, stopped the lawlessness and tamer towns evolved.




Annette

 

[aljdewey]

We could end the war on drugs, legalise marijuana, make illicit drug use safer, and put drug addicts into treatment instead of prison.

Oh, is that all we have to do? Seems so simple! Why didn't we all think of this sooner?

I'm all ears in hearing exactly how you propose for this to happen. Who will enforce it? Who will fund it?

Oh, and make sure you also outline the plan of how we're going to get our lawless, drug-running focused neighboring country to also abide by all this too.

 

[aljdewey]

The US has a very serious problem. Grasping at straws for examples to show that other countries, with vastly lower rates of violet crime, have problems too is an ineffective way of handling the situation. You can always find isolated cases of everything -- but statistics don't lie. 5700% higher murder rates in the States is not balanced out by a couple of deliberately lit bushfires in Australia.

I agree that there is a very serious problem, but pretending others are problem-free is just B.S. It's worth nothing that AUS's rate of assault/mugging far outpaces the U.S. - I guess that's ok as long as people aren't being killed?

More than half of death-by-gun incidents in the U.S. are suicide, so no, I don't walk around feeling unsafe in my country and living in fear. I suspect I'd feel more fearful in countries where there is a greater likelihood that I will be assaulted or mugged (which is rarely if ever a self-inflicted event.)

Moreover, there is positively no proof at all that your suggested remedy will actually resolve the problem. Several countries with tighter gun control have higher per-capita murder rates than the U.S.

What I do wholly know is this: sane people do not go around shooting one another. To me, that is the defining factor here. I'd be an enthusiastic participant in any discussion that addresses how to more effectively treat our mentally ill citizens and how to more effectively prevent them from arming themselves with all manner of weapons.

Until then, the rest is just meaningless n-o-i-s-e for me.

 

[packrat]

I would be interested to see what punishments are in other countries. Are you allowed to just keep doing the same things over and over again, if it's illegal? Is there the overwhelming "victim" mentality and entitlement mentality, that we have here? What are the govt's like?

 

[redwood66]

I love that Steve Lee is from Oz. He has a great video! youtube - I like Guns. Cracks me up every time.

 

[justginger]

There is nothing more I can say that will get the point across. The lack of respect for human life and no moral values coupled with rampant drug use and mental instability will be the problem until people take responsibility for their actions or are imprisoned.

That is it.

From an objective point of view, I see two possibilities.

First is the possibility that the ease of obtaining a firearm in the US, through legal means or stealing/'borrowing' from someone who did obtain it legally, has significantly contributed to the shameful violent crime statistics.

And second, there is now something inherently wrong with Americans, on a large scale. They are more mentally ill, less moral, angrier people than anyone else in the developed world.

I prefer to think it is a case of easy access versus national mental instability. It seems you would explain the alarmingly high violent crime rates on the second possible cause?

As I stated previously you cannot compare the US to another country. And it seems that foreigners think you cannot walk down a street without being shot at or robbed raped etc. There is nothing I can tell you that will change your mind that we are crazy lunatic gun lovers and I am tired of trying. Thanks.

I will continue to be my happy gun, bling, family loving self and enjoy my life in the US.

You do realise I am American, right? I experienced the fear of gun culture in the Midwest firsthand. Like the boy who sat next to me in 10th grade French who shot a convenience store woman in the face, or my coworkers' ex who showed up at her front door with a shotgun, or the violent home invasion of one of my uni friends, and so on and so forth. You don't need to convince me what life in the States was like because I lived it.

 

[aljdewey]

You do realise I am American, right? I experienced the fear of gun culture in the Midwest firsthand. Like the boy who sat next to me in 10th grade French who shot a convenience store woman in the face, or my coworkers' ex who showed up at her front door with a shotgun, or the violent home invasion of one of my uni friends, and so on and so forth. You don't need to convince me what life in the States was like because I lived it.

I'm so sorry that you had to experience those horrible things, and while those were your experiences in that Midwestern state, it doesn't necessarily mean those experiences are typical of or representative of all "the States"?

I've lived in several eastern states. I do not personally know anyone who has been shot. I did not go to school with anyone who shot anyone. None of my coworkers shot anyone, and none of my college friends shot anyone or were shot at themselves to my knowledge.

My father is the only person close to me who knows people who were shot - which happened when he served in Vietnam.

 

[JulieN]

We could end the war on drugs, legalise marijuana, make illicit drug use safer, and put drug addicts into treatment instead of prison.

Oh, is that all we have to do? Seems so simple! Why didn't we all think of this sooner?

I'm all ears in hearing exactly how you propose for this to happen. Who will enforce it? Who will fund it?

Oh, and make sure you also outline the plan of how we're going to get our lawless, drug-running focused neighboring country to also abide by all this too.

Very good questions, I'm glad you are all ears.

legalising weed in Colorado and Washington seems to have been a roaring success. the war on drugs? dismal failure by everyone's account. But we didn't think of it sooner until we were faced with the dismal failure.

When we legalised medical marijuana in a lot of states now, so was domestic cultivation. One, we are supplying some of our own, increasing competition and increasing the supply, which has resulted in dropping the wholesale price like a rock. This makes it less lucrative for Mexican cartels. Two, domestic quality is much higher quality than what is grown in Mexico. The result of all these market forces? Consumers of course want the good stuff, which is now more readily available and the price is cheaper after legalisation. Mexican pot farmers are planting less. Now, the cartels will change their tack and look to other drugs that are still profitable, ie, illegal.

Who will enforce it? It takes a lot more enforcement to run a war on drugs than to.... not.

Who will fund it? Seeing as how the US literally locks up more of its citizens than any other country IN THE WORLD, (and yet far from the safest country,) there seems to be plenty of funding. Interesting Australia comparison: 743/100,00 vs 133/100,000 incarceration rate, almost 6 times. Nonviolent drug offenders could be released into treatment instead of being locked up, and maybe if they get well, they could get a job, and pay taxes. Multiplier effect of good things could happen if we change imprisonment in this country.

 

[AGBF]

You do realise I am American, right? I experienced the fear of gun culture in the Midwest firsthand. Like the boy who sat next to me in 10th grade French who shot a convenience store woman in the face, or my coworkers' ex who showed up at her front door with a shotgun, or the violent home invasion of one of my uni friends, and so on and so forth. You don't need to convince me what life in the States was like because I lived it.

I've lived in several eastern states. I do not personally know anyone who has been shot.

My father is the only person close to me who knows people who were shot - which happened when he served in Vietnam.

We cannot argue this with anecdotal evidence. But mine is as strong as yours.

When I was first married, in my 20's, my best friend's nephew was shot and killed at age 13. In an Eastern state. Connecticut.

I had known him all his life. When she was away in France and he was a young boy, I took him to the movies on my own. We saw, "Young Frankenstein". When I was just married and gave my first party on Christmas Eve, he was there. He was at my wedding, although my best friend-who was in France-could not be present. He, his grandmother, and I were the only three people who attended my best friend's wedding in France. I hope you get the picture.

Then he was shot and killed when a school friend showed him a shotgun during a playdate in that friend's back country Greenwich, Connecticut home.

It sure made me want to uphold the Second Amendment right to bear arms. What if someone had curtailed that boy's? And I am delighted that that that boy's parents can now carry pistols into Starbucks...because they have such good judgement.

Deb

 

[Sakuracherry]

I've lived in NY for 8 years and personally know a few people who were injured by guns.

I understand that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms, but there must be better ways to restrict gun use and ownership in this country. It is way too easy to buy guns. You can buy one from a seller without background check.

 

[KaeKae]

This topic is so important, yet we (as a country) never seem to get anywhere with it. Still, I appreciate all particiapting in the discussion in a constructive manner. (just wanted to say that.)

This particular shooting as hit home for me, as one of the victims lived in our town, and I learned tonight that my daughter was, indeed acquainted with her. (DD has been on a wilderness/camping retreat for the past week and a half.)

The fact that a number of posters have expressed their desire to own guns in the interest of personal safety, has brought a question to mind. My sincere question, because I just don't know, is; in all the US mass shootings of recent years, how many of them were, in part or entirely, halted or seriously slowed by citizens who were carrying legally owned handguns.