Should clarity be scarified over color?

[LeonO]

Hello all,

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have two diamonds to pick from:

- 0.65 carat; D color; SI1; certified by IGI
- 0.65 carat; E color; VVS2; certified by HRD

Which is a better buy?

Thank you very much in advance.

Regards

Leon

 

[strmrdr]

Not nearly enough info to tell you other than id never buy an igi certed diamond.

 

[solange]

In my opinion, vvs is overkill. I would suggest an eye clean SI 1 or 2, graded by either the GIA or AGS.
I agree that you have not provided nearly enough information with regard to these stones. You should take the tutorial listed under Knowledge, above.

One of the first things you should consider, above color and clarity,is cut. An Ideal cut stone in G-H will be more attractive and lively than a poorly cut D.
I hope this helps.

 

[LeonO]

What other info would you guys need?

I know that both are Ideal Cut.

The IGI stone has EXCELENT for proportions and VERY GOOD for polish (and I think it has slight fluorecsence).

The other stone (ie. 065, E/VVS2) is VERY GOOD/VERY GOOD.

Does this help?

Thanks

Leon

 

[researcher]

What are the numbers on the stones? They''re round, right?

I too would never buy an IGI graded stone, or if I did I would figure it''s more like an F/SI2 with visible inclusions or a poor cut (you can''t go by their definition of cut quality).

If it''s a round, run the numbers through the HCA to see how the stone scores.

 

[LeonO]

Is IGI realy that unreliable? What about HRD?

 

[researcher]

AGS and GIA are the best. With the others (HRD, EGL, IGI, etc.) you need to make sure you get the stone independently appraised. They can be off by as much as 2 grades in color and/or clarity, and they do not have the same cut standards.

Keep in mind that cut is what''s most important, and that the manufacturers are going to send their top stones in for top reports if they think they''ll get a top grade.

 

[f0rbidden]

oh! here''s some info on HRD:

"HRD is a Dutch acronym for Diamond High Council, which is the coolest name in the industry. They are a Belgian based grading lab with offices in Belgium, Lebanon, Hong Kong, Canada and probably other places. They’re a well-respected grading lab but they don’t get much recognition in the US for lack of marketing effort. Information about them is at www.hrd.be. I wouldn’t recommend paying a premium to get their grading but I wouldn’t hold it against the stone either."
Posted at another forum by our friend DenverAppraiser!

now you have some more info!

Now as for choosing between these two diamonds. I don''t know ANYTHING about round brilliant cuts, so if you posted a bunch of numbers, I''m sorry to say they would mean nothing to me. So, that having been said, of the two you have listed, I would choose the E/VVS, all else being equal. I can''t imagine, though, that your E/VVS and your D/SI1 are the same price, are they?

 

[jaz464]

Date: 3/29/2006 1:54:08 AM
Author: LeonO
What other info would you guys need?

I know that both are Ideal Cut.

The IGI stone has EXCELENT for proportions and VERY GOOD for polish (and I think it has slight fluorecsence).

The other stone (ie. 065, E/VVS2) is VERY GOOD/VERY GOOD.

Does this help?

Thanks

Leon

Well, we need to see some numbers. Listing carat weight, clarity and color is not nearly enough to tell us about these diamonds. Symmetry/polish is not enough either. You are completely ignoring cut, the most important of the 4 C's. What we need are the dimensions, depth, table, crown and pavilion angles, etc. I most definitely would not take IGI's word on "ideal cut." I too would never purchase an IGI graded diamond.

 

[valeria101]

The cut and finish grades are not standardized (i.e. 'excellent' symmetry graded by lab X is not the same as 'excellent' by lab Y etc.). Now, I wouldn't worry much about the finish (polish and symmetry) grades - there is a premium on the top ones usually, but no real visual impact to speak of.

Proportions is a different matter, IMO. Not only there is a premium on choice 'numbers' but that also shows quite a bit. And no, what one lab calls 'good' or 'excellent' of 'poor' cut does not agree with other labs' grading and by really allot. Not sure why they would not agree, but the fact is, there is no agreement. And this is why taking the wording on the paper and paying for it... is not a very straight forward decision. And folks ask for the numbers

I am more used with HRD paper in Europe, and trust their word on color and clarity.

IGI.... totally different league. I would fear their D/SI is more like G/I1 in GIA terms. It may be better, but definitely not precisely what is claimed.

So between the two, I'd guess that in terms of color and clarity the HRD graded diamond is vastly better.


Cut (i.e. proportions) ? Don't know...

HRD's cut grades for round brilliants is based on a chart not unlike with the HCA (Cut Adviser) here - inasmuch as it takes a trade-off between crown and pavilion angles dependent of table size etc. However, I do not know if the cut grades assigned by the two systems agree at all or not despite said vague similarities.

Anyway, between the two I would consider the HRD and not the other. If it was graded M or lower by IGI - OK - it doesn't quite matter price-wise. But D/SI is quite high and does.

My 2c.



If the price is comparable, I would take a AGS or GIA graded D-F/VS2-Si1 as worthy contender for the HRD E/VVS.

And would definitely want to know table, girdle, diameter, crown and pavilion angles. If I can't see t (and even if I could).


I am not an expert. This is as much as I would know for myself.

 

[diamond_quester]

I just wanted to point out that "Very Good" is HRD''s highest grade for Finish and Proportions. That doesn''t tell the whole story but should increase the chances that it is a great cut by AGS or GIA standards.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/29/2006 10:02:31 AM
Author: diamond_quester

I just wanted to point out that ''Very Good'' is HRD''s highest grade for Finish and Proportions. That doesn''t tell the whole story but should increase the chances that it is a great cut by AGS or GIA standards.

Here''s a bit more of the story....

Perhaps finding the HRD cut grade definitions at the source is more reliable, but couldn''t locate them asap. So here''s the stats from the OctoNus site (the makers of DiamCalc).

HRD, ''Very Good'' cut grades accepts:

Crown angles between: 30.7 - 37.7
Pavilion angles between: 39.60 - 42.25
Table between: 52.8 - 66.2

Complete stats found down this link


That is a considerable larger bracket than AGS and (probably) GIA. Who is right... well, I would not jump to conclusions that the tightest system is the right one. For lack of better insight, I leave this to you

 

[LeonO]

Guys, thank you very much for all your responses.

One more question...

Could some one give me a GIA grading numbers to compare to. What I mean is, what GIA considers a good cut (with percentage ranges for all the cut components). I could then have a look at the IGI cert that I''m being offered and get a good idea if its a reasonable stone.

Thanks.

Leon

 

[jaz464]

I can''t do this, but someone who knows more about rounds will chime in. Keep in mind though, that it is the color and clarity grades that will most likely be off. The carat weight and measurements will most likely be accurate, though as mentioned above, IGI has a different definition of ideal cut than other labs.

 

[squarediamondlove]

Just to answer your question, I would sacrifice clarity for the color, but in the case of E versus a D there is barely any color difference that very very very few can pick up so the E VVS would be the better deal by far.

However I agree with others that the companies that certified these stones are not as reliable and you may be better off looking for a GIA and AGS certified stone. Try to get more details about the stone (tabe, depth, crown hight etc. ) that will allow us to help you better.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

To me I think it depends on the diamond shape. With step cuts I think clarity is VERY important. I have seen some beautiful rounds on here that are SI2 or SI3. I think you need to look at where the inclusions are and what they are (feathers, crystals...) and then decide. Good luck!