Should I stay?

[ChargerGrrl]

Caseys: You've gotten some great advice from the awesome folks here on PS. Sorry that I'm not going to add to it. You ask a very loaded question "Should I stay?" that really only YOU can answer.

Just wanted to clarify a point about counseling . I don't know for a fact if you cannot go through the traditional pre-cana counseling, if you don't get married in the Church. BUT, you can certainly attend the Church's Engaged Encounter counseling. DH and I were not married in the church, but strongly agreed that we wanted to go through some kind of pre-marital counseling. Engaged Encounter fit the bill for us, even though we're "recovering Catholics". The sad thing was that we were the only couple in our group of 50 that were there by choice.

You probably need something more along the lines of one-on-one counseling, but just wanted you to know that you do have options.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Pandora II]

I''m a pretty introverted person but always appear to be very extrovert - it''s very draining for me being with people all day at work and when I get home in the evening I need peace and quiet and to do mindless things like PS (

) and play online poker in order to unwind. Luckily FI is the same and we knows to leave each other alone - other bf''s didn''t and it could easily make me lose my temper and flip as I just got more and more wound up and stressed.

My sister''s husband is the same and she never gives him a minute''s peace - he wants to read and play with the computer, she wants him to help do the housework and entertain her. Their marriage is a disaster because they are basically incompatible and neither of them will ever change.

I am also a terrible procrastinator and hate housework - I pay a cleaner so I don''t have to do it. My house responsibilities come in taking care of our pets and watering plants which I do religiously.

My parents who have one of the best 36 year marriages I''ve ever seen have had some corkers of rows at times. My mother has thrown her wedding ring at my father at least 6 times and threatened to leave 20 odd times. She gets in the car - drives down the road, sits there for an hour, then comes back and they both say sorry and how much they love each other. Normally it''s because he was hiding in his study reading or playing on the computer and she wanted a hand with something!

The thing I see in your post that stands out is that you are still wondering what to do - suggests to me that you need to spend some time thinking over your relationship and how you really feel inside about it.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 7/18/2007 4:05:54 PM
Author: Nicrez
DF has a point with the kids! I have a family friend who would have fights in front of us and her kids. It was embarassing and the children would leave and cry. I have never seen anything quite like it. Make sure you create healthy communicating habits NOW.

I think yelling at someone or getting that dramatic is usually the result of a lack of respect.

Make sure your respect is intact and if not, build it up again. It''s the bedrock of love, and from that comes trust. If you respect someone you don''t want to hurt them, even when it means you yourself would be hurt. Pride has no place in a marraige, so don''t let that ever be an option.

I think there''s a lot of good advice here.

A couple of things come to mind. One of the 1st big fights/arguments with Mrs. Z was when we first started going out. I was getting bored, and decided to drop her at home and go do whatever (a behaviour from my single life). She wanted to know where I was going and why. I didn''t think I should have to explain. In hindsight, Mrs. Z. was presenting a threat to my freedom, an ingrained behaviour that was part of me at the time. My knee-jerk reaction was a moderate flip-out (but for me, a big reaction). With time, I learned to accept the tradeoff of freedom/spontanaeity vs. a committed relationship with someone always there for me. (And I''ve never been "free" since
It seems to me your BF might be having a similar reaction to your trying to change some fundamental habits.

The 2nd thing, is that in being married for just under 2 years I''ve learned that sometimes I "can get my way" through force of personality - being loud and arguing forcefully, but that it feels likey bullying which isn''t very nice, and I don''t want to treat my partner this way. I told myself I wouldn''t do that anymore, and I don''t. Sort of what Nicrez was saying.

Z.

 

[Joolskie]

Date: 7/18/2007 6:01:12 PM
Author: Mara
honestly, once we got engaged there was never a fight where it was like ''oh well maybe you should just leave then'' or where things escalated to be all crazy like that. i would have been livid had he tried to pull the ring off my finger or told me to get out. how flat out disrespectful is that. but then again i probably would not have gotten engaged to anyone who fought dirty like that or thought that it was appropriate to do that to me either once we made the committment to tie our lives together.


but that is just me...we don''t fight all that often quite frankly, and if we do we get over it pretty quickly for the most part. i don''t like disharmony in my home. i also am not keen on having him have to beg for my forigveness. it just sounds all so *dramatic* and i am totally not into that either. he made a mistake, you have to decide what that means, forgive and forget or move out or whatever....but he shouldn''t be begging in my opinion.
Two of the biggest challenges in marriage are finances and division of labor.

get some counseling. i hear a lot of excuses in your posts about how this isn''t really how he is and this and that, well then what is the problem? just forgive him and put the ring back on and move on if it''s not really a big deal. if it does bother you, then scrutinize your relationship a bit more even if it might mean some harsh realities.

I''m with Mara here. DH and I have been together for 16 years and married for almost 11 of them. We have never had a fight escalate to the point where one of us had to beg for forgiveness or make a physical motion such as removing a ring. Above anything, DH and I are best friends and treat other that way.

One thing I can say is that your fiance is who he is and you are who you are. If the guy is not the best at getting things done around the house, that''s him. You need to determine if you can accept him as is. You also need to determine if this most recent incident is a a deal breaker or not.

Speaking from experience... marriage is about unconditional acceptance. If you are always thinking "wow, DH is great accept for the fact that he is lazy" then you will not be happy. If, for example, you instead think "wow, DH is not handy around the house so perhaps we should discuss getting a cleaning service" then you are working with what you have instead of against it.

Again, speaking from experience... when DH and I agreed that I would quit my job to stay home with the kids, it was well-known that I am far from a Domestic Goddess. I do the best I can and DH understands that I will usually ditch vacuuming to have Star Wars Light Sabre battles with my sons. He also knows that if there is a pile of laundry on our bedroom floor... it is clean, REALLY. I just have to FOLD IT.

Two of the biggest challenges in marriage are finances and division of labor. Counseling could help both of you work on the issues of acceptance, expectations and effective communication.

 

[Kit]

I think that if you grew up in a household like I did, where fights turned into a circus of screaming, yelling, saying nasty hurtful things, slamming doors, etc. then you didn''t learn to fight fair or resolve conflicts in a rational, productive way that wasn''t destructive to the relationship. Speaking for myself, I have had to spend years learning how to stay calm during disagreements, not yell, not let things escalate, and not make low blows to FI. I know, it''s crazy, and believe me my family is crazy, but you really do have to learn or absorb during childhood how to resolve conflict calmly. I am still working on it, it is very hard to fight urges ingrained in you over 18 years, but it can be done!

I think that you each need to enter into individual and couples counseling to learn how to communicate and how to create a safe environment in your relationship in which disagreements don''t escalate to the drama that they are now. Trust me, if you don''t address this now you are just sweeping things under the rug and it will only get worse. Further, if you bring children into a household like that they will be unhappy. It is just so stressful, the ups and downs of a roller coaster relationship like that.

I know you probably love him, as FI loves me, and he is a great person with many wonderful qualities, but you really both need to commit to changing the way you operate with each other. You will be a much happier person for it. Good luck.

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Casey~
You''ve gotten some great advice so I''ll try not to reiterate what was said. I do have to agree with the posters who said that your fi''s behavior was aggressive, childish, and unacceptable. After the initial shock, there is NO WAY my fi would get away with grabbing my ring from my hand and ordering me out of our home.
I also wanted to add that it IS fair that you''re thinking about children before they''re in the picture. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, so you are being responsible in thinking about what type of father this man will be. Unless the two of you have come to the decision that you do not want to have children, you have the right and responsibility to consider how children will be affected right now.
One other issue is concerning to me...you said you have lived together for 2 years, yet you''re still fighting about house cleaning and having difficulties being in close quarters? Has this always been difficult for you two? If it has, I would think it should be sorted out after 2 years of living together.
Only you can answer the your question of ''should i stay or leave?'' I have to say that your indecision might be your answer. I agree that this incident was most likely very hurtful for you, but part of me thinks that if it truly was an isolated incident and you''re absolutely sure it will never happen again, you wouldn''t have a difficult time agreeing to stay and work things out. Then again, I probably wouldn''t be so quick to forgive and forget either. Of course these are just my thoughts as an outsider! I really hope you come to the correct decision for you, and everything works out the way it''s supposed to. Good luck and please let us know how you''re doing!

 

[Caseys]

wow, i never thought so many people would give me their thoughts. thank you! i know my fi''s behavior was childish, aggressive, and unacceptable. that''s exactly what i told him and he now understands. i wouldn''t stay if i thought we couldn''t work things out. i''m not the type of person who would stay in a relationship if i wasn''t getting what i want and need. aside from what happened, my fiancee is a gentle person. no, this doesn''t excuse what he did by any means.

we talked for hours last night and he now feels the need to tell me what he did around our house to straighten up. so this cleaning stuff, it''s what we started fighting about but i know, and he does now, that there was/is more to it than that. when we talked, he started off by saying that he''d do anything i wanted him to do. he said he wants to do what it takes to show me that what he did was a mistake but it doesn''t define who he is. when i told him that i wanted him to see someone (a counselor), he was fine about that. we''re thinking of pre-marital counseling also. since a couple days have passed since this happened, i know he wants to do better and so far he has. i''m going to really notice what he does and see if things change and turn a corner. he knows that if anything remotely close to his aggressive behavior i saw the other night happens again, i will leave. as i said earlier, he is not a bad man or an abusive person. he made one mistake but he never physically hurt me. i feel the need to say this again because i''m getting the feeling that some posters feel that i''m making excuses for his behavior. trust me, i''m not.

 

[thumbelina]

Caseys... I''m sorry that this happened...but am glad to see that you both are going to counseling. I''m a firm believer!

If you feel that this is the man for you and that you should work things out, then you should. Work it out, forgive and forget if your are going to move forward. Don''t forget in the sense that you''ll let the same behavior happen over and over again. Forget in the sense that you not bring it up whenever he doesn''t something wrong (which we women have a tendancy to do at times

).

Your fiance(?) told you that what he did was a mistake and that it doesn''t define who he is. I believe, though, that the way we act when we are in extreme circumstances is actually our real selves. At the very least, we discover what we are truly capable of doing/saying. But no one is perfect, and everyone has done something in relationships that they regret. The true test is how you move forward.

My hubby and I have a sacred rule that we established as soon as we became engaged. No matter how difficult things become, how angry we get, etc., we would never threaten to leave, divorce, or remove our rings. This doesn''t apply to only fighting, but to all things... we don''t even joke about it. Our vow to each other is the one thing that we always want to be certain of.

Also, examine what your role in the fight was. Arguments don''t usually escalate by themselves. Therapy will definitely help you both develop the tools you need to help avoid these types of fights in the future.

Just remember that the post-engagement pre-wedding period is typically a very stressful time... but if you both love each other and are committed to each other and making things work, then it will work out.

Good luck to you both, Caseys

 

[Caseys]

thanks thumbelina for your advice. i''ve taken into consideration everyone''s advice and although i''ll keep my eyes open to see how things are progressing on my fiancee''s end, i do want to work it out. maybe i could have acted differently too and that''s something i''ll think about as well. if we''re both doing the work to make things better (before this happened, things were great, except for the occasional disagreement), i think everything will be fine. hopefully going through this process will make things stronger.

i will say, my fiancee has been cleaning like mad and he''s been groveling every chance he gets. i could ask him to do jsut about anything and he''d agree to it happily.