similar setting?

[strmrdr]

Its simple its a matter of time and money.
You can not charge enough to pay for spending a 100 hours of a master craftmans time on 5000 pieces like you can for a one of a kind peice.
Finding enough of them to do it is impossible in the first place.
The initial model may be art but once it hits the production line its production not art.

I 100% agree with Platinumsmith on that.

Just look how some of the big names have had ticked off customers come here and complain about crappy workmanship.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 8/26/2005 1:15:07 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/26/2005 11:19:55 AM
Author: mepearl53

yea right.
Just like the emmy''s right?
hmmm how can i say this without getting banned,,,
like a mutual massage party.
The best and the greatest getting over shadowed by the popular and the kisser uppers when they get together to stroke each others egos and hand out awards.

Strmrdr''s back

Now we''re a design critic? I agree that there are many awards that are not worth the paper they are written on but there are some pretty serious awards and recognitions for design achievement out there also. Let''s examine my good friend Whitney Boin of Whitney Boin Studio. Whitney is one of America''s most awarded and accomplished craftsmen/designer. The following is a list of his awards and these are not the Emmy''s

Argyle International Colored Diamond Award
Diamond International Award DeBeers
Diamonds Today Award 8 times
Diamonds of Distinction Award 2 times
International Pearl Design Japan Pearl Society 3 times
Cultured Pearl Achievement Award
Gold Design Competition World Gold Council 2 times
Platinum Design Competition 3 times
New Designer of the year Jewelers of America
Presidents Award Jewelers of America 2 times

He has been invited to exhibit in numerous exhibitions such as:

Isetan Art Museum Tokyo
San Francisco University "United States Metal"
Italian Design Invitational, Vicenza Italy
Travel Exhibition, American Crafts Museum, N.Y.
Craft as Content, University of Akron School of Art
Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, Jewelry Now
Downey Museum of Art, Contemporary Metals USA
Skidmore College
Dimock Gallery, Washington D.C.
Philadelphia College of Art
Society of North American Goldsmiths

He has also had extensive exposure in most of the world''s trade and fashion press for his outstanding contribution to the contemporary arts. And more but this is my point. For anyone who knows Whitney these awards are not political. Young metal smiths look up to him for his accomplishments. Hopefully he has inspired some to venture into the world of the jewelry arts for it is fascinating. I think many people who participate on the forum enjoy jewelry and learning about the many accomplished designers and their work. Some are better than others I admit but there are lots of very fine ones out there if you look.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 8/26/2005 1:20:14 PM
Author: strmrdr
Its simple its a matter of time and money.
You can not charge enough to pay for spending a 100 hours of a master craftmans time on 5000 pieces like you can for a one of a kind peice.
Finding enough of them to do it is impossible in the first place.
The initial model may be art but once it hits the production line its production not art.

I 100% agree with Platinumsmith on that.

The greatest majority of the designers I mentioned will do one of a kind couture also and this is what I was talking to or thought I was. We have commissioned pieces done all the time and the level of workmanship is of the highest level. True, they also have design lines for they are in business. If I wanted to have Armani make me a custom suit they would do this. It would be more money but I could have it done IF I wanted to spend the money. If not I could buy off the rack and be just as comfortable with the brand. In the case of Michael Beaudry and Michael B. they actually are all made as a one of a kind for they all make the pieces from actual platinum and gold cold stock. They can just duplicate the design. A custom home builder is just that but he farms out the work to others for doing it himself would not be cost effective or efficient. Does it lessen the art? That''s debatable. And I agree with you Strmrdr that there is a lot of talent that goes unnoticed. The net will change that and I will help facilitate it. By years end I will be starting to feature some extremely talented young artists on my site that you will never have heard of. Wonderful people who would love to make a name for themselves so they can get bigger and have others do the mundane parts of the manufacturing process. Imagine being able to command hundreds of dollars a hour for your specialized work and doing your own polishing or setting that can be farmed off to someone at a greatly reduced price. They call these people apprentices and when they get good enough they leave and start out on their own. Some make it some starve and it starts all over again.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 8/26/2005 6:19:55 PM
Author: Feydakin

Your a good man Steve. Hope to meet you someday! Your a hour away and I would love to buy you lunch.

 

[strmrdr]

You know iv been thinking about this:
Its like the difference between a painting and a print.
Both are art but the painting is the original and was created with skill and blood sweat and tears where the print was ran off on a press.
The print can look good but it never can be the same.

 

[Kaleigh]

Storm,
Wow, that is just what I was thinking, but couldn''t articulate it as well as you did.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Using Storms painting analogy...
I think it brings us back to the fact that an artist who works in jewellery rarely takes credit for the original works they produce. There is a jeweller I know who makes master patterns for a living. They are designed to be cast. He is an artist, but he makes a product.

I understand that known artists in some older countries like Russia get more for their works then they might get in more commercial centres. If this relates to jewellery I don''t know, but how do you price a work of art?

Bill,
In terms of couture; (I wish you had said that at the start), I think the same applies. Saying that the Michael B brand produces a high standard of jewellery for the mass-market doesn''t necessarily follow that the couture designs are also of an equally high standard, (especially when compared to those who specialise in this type of work). I am not suggesting that they can''t, in fact I suppose that at his companies standards he probably can do very well, but there is no direct correlation. It depends on a lot of things regarding how they get jewellery made.

The lines are greyed and nobody can argue that when a person really loves a jewel they shouldn’t have it, because it was produced one way or another, but there IS an argument that if somebody wants a work of art, that they should.

Phillip

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 8/27/2005 5:28:36 AM
Author: Platinumsmith
Using Storms painting analogy...
I think it brings us back to the fact that an artist who works in jewellery rarely takes credit for the original works they produce. There is a jeweller I know who makes master patterns for a living. They are designed to be cast. He is an artist, but he makes a product.

I understand that known artists in some older countries like Russia get more for their works then they might get in more commercial centres. If this relates to jewellery I don''t know, but how do you price a work of art?

Bill,
In terms of couture; (I wish you had said that at the start), I think the same applies. Saying that the Michael B brand produces a high standard of jewellery for the mass-market doesn''t necessarily follow that the couture designs are also of an equally high standard, (especially when compared to those who specialise in this type of work). I am not suggesting that they can''t, in fact I suppose that at his companies standards he probably can do very well, but there is no direct correlation. It depends on a lot of things regarding how they get jewellery made.

The lines are greyed and nobody can argue that when a person really loves a jewel they shouldn’t have it, because it was produced one way or another, but there IS an argument that if somebody wants a work of art, that they should.

Phillip

Phillip,

I wish I had let that be know earlier and I apologize if I seemed tough. This is a world that I work in and I just assumed that you would understand where I was coming from. Beaudry, Michael B, et all are not mass brands. They try to market their product in a traditional manner but few people will ever posses their work. There are only 20 main players who sell their work successfully. This would be likened to a art gallery selling what art work they carry. Does a one of a kind necessarily mean it is more important than multiples of the same design? For the true designers I would believe that their work even done in multiples are more highly regarded than lesser designers that make a one of a kind. Can this be accomplished by "market makers" possibly but I believe in the end it is what the consumer demands and that creates the market and value for the work.

I have followed the antique and vintage jewelry market for some time and am a believer in top brands or artists bringing strong secondary value for their creations. I invest heavily in the contemporary market for designers and my business philosophy is a worst case scenario. If it all goes to he#@ in a hand bag I''m stuck with some very desirable designers. Although I believe in owning jewelry because you are in love with the pieces and more importantly because of why it was given, I still believe there is long term value with certain designers over others. The auction houses have pretty well stated that Kretchmer and Beaudry will be top 10 names to own in the future. Will names like Frank Jones have this future desirability, no. And this also hold true in Storms case of production. A limited edition or artists proof of a painter like Miro holds more value in the "market" than original works by Paul Smith or Sarah Evans. Most artists starve.

 

[strmrdr]

A little off topic but we part company in another area Bill.
I see no value in any jewelery item other than the enjoyment one gets from it.
It is one of the ultimate vanity items someone will ever buy.

In some ways it cant be compared to cars because even the most flashy car serves a practical purpose of getting one from point a to point b.
I spose a case could be made for a wedding band serving to tell people hands off this one isnt available.
But other than that its all about enjoyment not value.
I feel sorry for people that would buy jewelery for any reason other than enjoyment because they are missing the best part of it and lessening what its all about.

 

[katz]

Well, as a peacemaker (by birth, not by trade) I would like to say that ALL parties have made some excellent points. I think it just goes to show the very subjective nature of terms like art and design. I''m sorry if my topic started an argument or sorts... I was just interested in knowing where I might find some similar settings to the 3-sided pave setting shown

On an unrelated note - Strmrdr, I wish it were true that a wedding band and/or engagement ring truly signaled that somebody is "off the market". The last time that I went to a nightclub (I don''t do this often) with some friends and without my husband, I was definitely wearing my wedding band. I was hit on by 4 very handsome men in about 60 minutes. I was not trying to hide my rings and I most certainly wasn''t flirting with any of them. I can almost hear Carrie''s voice from Sex And The City asking some question like "Is a ring just the thing to snag a new man?" or "Is married the new single?" or some other inane statement. Then she would encourage her single friends to start wearing wedding bands in order to get more dates.
Sigh.
Kat

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/27/2005 10:54:32 AM
Author: katz


On an unrelated note - Strmrdr, I wish it were true that a wedding band and/or engagement ring truly signaled that somebody is ''off the market''. The last time that I went to a nightclub (I don''t do this often) with some friends and without my husband, I was definitely wearing my wedding band. I was hit on by 4 very handsome men in about 60 minutes. I was not trying to hide my rings and I most certainly wasn''t flirting with any of them. I can almost hear Carrie''s voice from Sex And The City asking some question like ''Is a ring just the thing to snag a new man?'' or ''Is married the new single?'' or some other inane statement. Then she would encourage her single friends to start wearing wedding bands in order to get more dates.

Sigh.

Kat

That is sad.
I tend to hang out places where its respected.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 8/27/2005 9:20:19 AM
Author: strmrdr
A little off topic but we part company in another area Bill.
I see no value in any jewelery item other than the enjoyment one gets from it.
It is one of the ultimate vanity items someone will ever buy.

In some ways it cant be compared to cars because even the most flashy car serves a practical purpose of getting one from point a to point b.
I spose a case could be made for a wedding band serving to tell people hands off this one isnt available.

I feel sorry for people that would buy jewelery for any reason other than enjoyment because they are missing the best part of it and lessening what its all about.

Do you believe in opposites attracting

As my new debate partner I would go on record as saying the true value of jewelry is the way it makes the wearer feel and the meaning that it is given for. Cars have their reasons for ownership and I guess it makes a statement in someones eyes. The wedding band could mean that one is not available or please don''t bother me.

BUT! There is a large market out there for signed vintage and antique jewelry. The more famous the designer the more money it brings. Kind of like the paintings you referred to earlier. I''m sure you are aware of Sotheby''s and Christies and if you have followed this market over the last 30 years you would see a huge appreciation in value of the great names of the past. One day the contemporary artist/designer of today will become vintage and antique and I would bet that a certain group of them today will be highly prized in the future. Just the way markets go.

 

[strmrdr]

Yea the entire antiques market thing seems pretty wacked to me be it paintings , pots or jewelery.

I know someone who has spent huge amounts of money on stuff but never enjoys it because its collectible.
Its sad.

I think people would be shocked at whos work will be valuable in the future.
Its pretty much impossible to predict right now.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 8/27/2005 5:27:28 PM
Author: strmrdr
Yea the entire antiques market thing seems pretty wacked to me be it paintings , pots or jewelery.

I know someone who has spent huge amounts of money on stuff but never enjoys it because its collectible.
Its sad.

I think people would be shocked at whos work will be valuable in the future.
Its pretty much impossible to predict right now.

Things are really whacked out and people are buying anything based on what other people say will be valuable in the future. You and I will spend our entire lives debatating this question and our grand children will know the results. Look forward to the debate

Where the Rolling Stones that good? Don''t think so! Sorry souls and bent on reliving the past glory years. Loving Spoonfuls? Do you believe in magic?

 

[strmrdr]

Its a good way to keep from getting bored at least when there isnt much else going on.

Besides its always possible to learn a thing or 3 in the process.
Im looking into some of those designers you mentioned and the awards so it wasnt wasted time.

I think I may have been looking too narrow when talking of designers.
Vatche and tacori are what comes to mind when jewelery designers are mentioned.
Mark M. and Leon are old world metalsmiths to my way of thinking.
There is a huge difference between the two groups but some do cross over I suppose.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 8/27/2005 7:22:33 PM
Author: strmrdr


Im looking into some of those designers you mentioned and the awards so it wasnt wasted time.

I think I may have been looking too narrow when talking of designers.
Vatche and tacori are what comes to mind when jewelery designers are mentioned.

Search and you will find. I can''t comment on the people you have identified but you are on the right track. I can help point you in the right direction. My opinion is just that! Most would find what I have to say insulting to their taste.