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Sleepy Sapphire

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lovesapphires

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
21
Hi everyone! I have been following the topics and it has been very informative.

what does everyone think of this sapphire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwHCx6urLO8&feature=youtu.be

it is considered sleepy, but it seems to hold its blue color under many light conditions. do you know whether a sleepy sapphire would do well in a diamond pave halo setting? would the contrast be weird between sleepy and sparkly? or would it make the sleepy sapphire sparkle more?
 
Looks good so far but I'd like a straight down view, not just from the side because I cannot see the cutting at all, which is an important aspect of the gem too.

A sleepy stone is fine in a diamond halo, to set up some contrast. No, the sleepy sapphire will not sparkle more. It is what it is, and will not change its characteristic no matter how you set it.
 
Here is a picture from top. Day lighting is not great though... overcast.

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Colour looks good but the picture is blurry. Any closer up picture where I can see the faceting better? Side view? I also see something which is under hot debate in CS lately but will hold off on that until I see more of this sapphire. What are the dimensions (LxWxD)?
 
More pictures, I hope this helps. It is unheated, 8.21 x 6.74 x 4.79 (mm). Crown height 0.77 mm. Pavilion height 3.57 mm.

image_1_0.jpeg

image_2_.jpeg

image_3_.jpeg

image_4_.jpeg
 
Yes, and no. :lol: If anything, I'm more curious about it. The stone has a low crown, which doesn't help it in the sparkle department but has a good spread because of the 65-ish % depth. You are probably going to see a tilt window quite easily but it's probably not a deal breaker. The stone seems to "close up" but not black out in a few pictures. Is this what you see in person? Will you be bothered that you can't see deeply into the stone (not transparent) or see the facet pattern clearly due to the silkiness?
 
I actually do not see much window with tilt. I was pleasantly pleased. :-) By close up do you mean that part of it gets darker? It holds its color quite well in all lights, better than most I have seen. But, maybe a tad grayer than some of the more sparkly sapphires indoors, but not as dark. But the color is still amazing all around.

I haven't made the commitment yet. How much do you think this sapphire should go for in today's market? Also, is it possible to have it appraised somewhere? How do I go about doing this?
 
The tilt window is apparent in your last picture. Yes, it gets quite a bit darker in large areas but at least it is a darker blue, not black. Best of all, although it gets darker, it's still never an overly dark blue. True, saturation could be better but now it comes down to price, right? ;)) It's sort of the "how long do I keep looking" versus "is this it" question. Can you find something better? Sure, but it'll probably cost more and it'll take a lot more time to find without the guarantee of finding it.

Is the reason for this to find out more about the quality and what something like this should cost? Does it come with a lab memo proving that it is indeed untreated? If you are wondering what's a fair price to pay for a stone like this, just look around online and you'll get a good idea. Appraisers tend to over-inflate their numbers. Most do it only for insurance purposes and not to judge quality.
 
The sapphire came with a memo saying it is untreated. It is from Natural Sapphire Company, any thoughts on them? Would $6000 be a good price?
 
Is the memo from a reputable lab or something provided by NSC? What is the carat weight of the sapphire? Is it around 2 carats? If so, then $3000/ct is very expensive!
 
It is 2.06ct and comes with a GIA certificate that says "no indications of heat." Is GIA reputable enough? Would $2500/ct be more reasonable for an unheated sapphire of good quality?
 
Oh... I understand now. No it will not bother me if I cannot see deep into the sapphire or the faceting. I care more about color. I would like more sparkle, but I prefer color even when there is not much light.

In the sapphire world, is sleepy bad?
 
GIA is a big name lab that's been around for ages. I have no issues with their reports.

A touch of silk is sometimes desired because it diffuses the light to give the stone a slightly soft velvety appearance. Too silky and it detracts from the overall look (less sparkle, little transparency) and some even consider the clarity as included. When a gemstone is too silky, the valuation is decreased compared to an indentical but clearer relative.
 
Do you think this sapphire is too silky? Or is too difficult for you to judge from the pictures I posted?
 
From what little I can see in the video and pictures, it is too silky and should be discounted slightly for it.
 
Ok :-)

So what do you think is good about it? I have little experience compared to you, but it seems to me that the color is good with little extinction or window. I don't want to keep looking for another month. Is it a keeper for $6000? Maybe I can have them drop it to $5500?
 
I agree that the colour is good despite its other flaws. I have no idea how flexible NSC is but $5k is still steep. I heard that they sometimes have a 15% off sales which gives you a starting negotiating point.
 
Silk in stones is one of those highly personal taste preferences. Some people like the brightness good silk can add to a stone. Some people don't because as a result, the stone often doesn't have great scintillation. Chrono has said it already. What your stone appears in the photos and video to have is great, bright, saturated color. It does not appear to sparkle. Ultimately, its your ring and your choice. If I were going to knock it from contention I would do so because of the price, which is steep for what it is. I can't say as I've seen a lot of super sparkly sapphires, but my personal taste runs to as saturated a stone as possible, while being able to see facet reflections and light bouncing around internally, making the flashes. It seems that with this stone, you probably get the first without the second. Is that okay for you, or do you want a somewhat sparkly stone as well?
 
Ultimately I want a sapphire that sparkles, but the sapphires I have seen that sparkle have more extinction and suffer from more dramatic half/half. So I think I like this one still.

But.... The sapphire's original price was $7622. They dropped the 15% and when I asked again they dropped to $6000, which they said was the best they could do. I would be fortunate if they could drop another $500. Are they really marking up so much? It seems that a good price for this sapphire would be $3000 to $4000. I assumed that because I purchased this online that the sapphire was at a competitive price unlike local jewelers. I have been told the sapphire prices have gone up.
 
I think a starting point of $7K+ for that stone is stunningly ridiculous. Even at the "discounted" price its expensive. I would really try and see other sapphires. Have you checked with other vendors? Gemfix? Spectral Gems? Even Mastercut has had some pretty Sri Lankans recently as he has a connection there who cuts the stones and sends them to him for sale. I can't recall if you've checked out the sticky thread with all the vendors at the top of the page?

Of course, its your decision! Maybe you don't want to keep looking, you like the sapphire, and you don't mind the price. In this case, by all means, get it!
 
I looked at the vendor list and just now at gemfix, mastercut gems, and spectral gems, but they did not have any blue sapphires that appealed to me. Interestingly, I noticed that the natural sapphire company is not on the vendor list. Do you know why?
 
Actually, as you peruse all the different manifestations of the recommended vendor lists in that thread, you will find The Natural Sapphire Company included in a few of those lists, while others thought it best they be excluded.

Some people on this forum have had good dealings with NSC, others have had real problems dealing with them. If you enter "natural sapphire company" in the search function in the top corner of this page, you will find threads dedicated to the vices and virtues of NSC. The main reasons cited for excluding them from the reccommended list would be:

1. Over-priced inventory
2. Poorly Cut Stones
3. Photo-shopped online pictures (particularly pairs of stones)
4. Problematic customer service (rudeness and difficulties post-purchase)

Reasons that people have had pleasant dealings are just what you would expect (NSC was helpful, they buyer purchased a nice stone from them etc.)

Most people on this forum like to get good deals, and this is a premium-priced stone. I don't think you will convince anyone here otherwise :tongue:

At least do some price-comparison on the recommended vendor list, and then decide if you are willing to pay the high premium or see if you can't get the price knocked down a bit. You would be suprised how good your bargaining position can be when you are actually willing to walk away... you could always make an offer of a more reasonable price. Doing some price-comparison will allow you to reference the better prices you've seen when asking them to drop the price.

There are cheaper and better stones out there, but taking a risk and researching it yourself might not be worth it to you if you can afford the premium. Please share some pictures here when you do buy a stone!
 
Getting a slightly better stone for less through a PS vendor (or contacting some cutters) also takes some work and patience, and those might not be luxuries you have...
 
CC is indeed correct on all points wrt NSC's reputation on PS, their pricing and your options.
 
Thank you for the input. I will see if I can get a better deal. I have tried a few other CS vendors but they were around the same price or did not have a saturated sapphire of >2ct., but I have not tried all of them, such as Gemfix, AJS or Gemsthailand. Unfortunately it looks like Gemfix sold some of their nicer ones and the others are overseas.

My experience with NSC has been fabulous so far. Caitlyn Perlman send me 4 videos of sapphires that she recommended and that I asked her about and I picked only one of those 4 plus another. She was very nice and patient over the phone and email. Another person at NSC, Kevin, was also very nice talking over the phone late at night after NSC had already closed. I can see the complaint about their sapphires being overpriced. It's a shame. I'm not sure I can evaluate the cut. They have an analysis sheet that shows the cutting. As far as I can tell the sapphire seems to be cut very nicely, culet is quite centered, facets align, etc. The only thing is that the crown is a little shallow from what is probably ideal, but it faces up very large for a 2.06 ct. How does one judge cut? Are we talking ugly cutting or is cutting referring to the amount of sparkle?
 
The cut affects the sparkle, liveliness of the stone, pleasantness of symmetry to the eye, can improve the perceived colour and mask inclusions.
 
I said that I would send back the sapphire, but the contact person said that another customer showed interest in this sapphire. I guess I made a mistake in posting on here. :-(
 
Wow, there are people willing to pay $3500/ct for that sapphire? :eek:
 
I imagine NSC was sending out pictures of this sapphire to numerous people who were interested in royal blue sapphires given that they think its one of the finest that they have as proved by the sky-high price. So I would think THAT a more likely explanation than you posting here and someone tracking that stone down based on your pictures. Nevertheless, you do have to be careful about giving too many details on this forum :? Approx. sizes and not revealing the seller will help.

Really great stones from gemfix, the gemtrader, spectral gems etc tend to go quickly, so you have to pay attention when they post new stones, or get in touch with them about cutting something to your specifications. Best of luck and I hope you will post if you decide to keep it. I'm sure you will get lots of help from people on this forum without a financial interest in what you do if you choose to keep looking.
 
Of course, fibbing about someone else being interested so you better pay-up or lose it is a classic bargaining technique...
 
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