so..first money question

[rainbowtrout]

Um, posted blank first time...whoops.


We want about 50-60 people and have a budget of 5k. My mother has been kind enough to offer to pay for flowers (probably about 500 or so, we are doing potted plants for everything except the bouquets/bouts). Everything else we are paying for. It's going to be tight, but I think we can pull it off.


Here's the deal; FI's family is HUGE. Mine is small enough to fit comfortably into 25-35 people, plus most of our mutual friends. We each get 25 guests or so, but this means he can't invite a lot of his father's side of the family (both sets of parents are divorced).

We'd love to have them all, but we simply can't budget another 20 or more people. His father is a rich doctor who could probably easily afford to help us out: would it be OK to say something like:

Dr. F, we would really love to have more of your side of the family at the wedding, but we really can't afford more than X amount of guests. Is there any way you could help us with the extra guests?

I mean, if not, the answer is we just don't invite them. So...not sure what to do.

 

[luckystar112]

I''d invite only who you can afford to invite...

If he asks you why so and so isn''t invited, then you tell him that you don''t have that much money in your budget.

Then, if he OFFERS to help you out, then accept. That''s what I would do.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Hm... I guess we could send him a copy of the guest list "just so he knows" as a way to give him a chance to see who we are inviting.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/17/2007 12:51:29 PM
Author: luckystar112
I''d invite only who you can afford to invite...


If he asks you why so and so isn''t invited, then you tell him that you don''t have that much money in your budget.


Then, if he OFFERS to help you out, then accept. That''s what I would do.

That''s probably what I would do too.

And your budget is doable!! We''re doing 42 in San Francisco and I don''t feel like we''re scrimping at all. Our budget is $5k but right now we''re only at $4k with almost everything covered!

 

[rainbowtrout]

if you don''t mind, can you put up a breakdown of yours? it would be so helpful to see how other people in my bracket are doing this!

 

[rainbowtrout]

What I don''t want is him to show up at the wedding and feel like we "forgot" half the family...is it normal to send the father of the groom a copy of the guest list or would it look odd? Cause otherwise he has no idea who we are inviting.

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 6/17/2007 12:57:27 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
What I don''t want is him to show up at the wedding and feel like we ''forgot'' half the family...is it normal to send the father of the groom a copy of the guest list or would it look odd? Cause otherwise he has no idea who we are inviting.

We''re planning on sending the guest list to my FI''s parents. We put it together a while ago and my FI asked his parents if they wanted to add anyone. They said that it looked fine to them and they left it up to him as to who to invite. My parents (my mom in particular) had definite ideas of who they wanted to include, and my side will be much begger because of this. If I were you, I''d send a copy of the guest list to both of your FI''s parents, at least so they can look at it and see who''s on it. If they feel that they''d like to add to it, that could be another conversation.

 

[neatfreak]

Here is the breakdown for what I have currently, off the top of my head:

-Reception at Greens Restaurant(assumes each person will have 2 drinks plus 30% tip and $250 room fee). They do the table flowers, menus, as well as the cake too: $2,200 (probably an overestimate, but I'd rather be under budget!)
-Ceremony Rental Site: $400
-Invites and STD cards: $220
-Chartered Cable Car: $713
-Natural color, wooden chairs for Ceremony:$200
-Photographer:$250 (we found someone starting up a photog. business. Already had done 2 weddings, had gorgeous pics, and will give us all our photos on a CD. Does not include an album or prints though.)
-Day of Wedding Coordinator: $150 (again a craigslist find, she does event planning for a company and has done 3 weddings, wants to start a business).
-Bride's Hair: $120
-Bouquet: $20 (just for the flowers. My mom is a florist and she'll be hand tying it).
-Ipod for music: $0 (already own one).

So this brings us to under $4500 for 40 people. I'm sure there will be a few more small things to add (like a handmade huppah), but this really is almost everything and for someone without the chartered cable car, there is an additional $700 to take off of this budget.


Soooo that's what we're doing. It's easier for us because there is no bridal party, no fancy decorations, no favors, and everything is simple. Otherwise we'd be looking at a LOT more $. But the restaurant is so elegant that we really didn't feel the need to add anything to it. PLUS they are doing our flowers for the tables, which helps a LOT.

I highly recommend craigslist to find some vendors. Once we weeded through all the crazys that replied, we found our two, who had portfolios, recommendations, and have been awesome so far. In exchange, assuming they provide their services as promised, I will write them a letter of recommendation, allow them to use my wedding pics in their portfolios, and provide my number for referrals. Great deal for both of us!

 

[rainbowtrout]

That''s great about the restaurant! What a deal.

Just looking at your list I kept thinking what about? and ? and ? Makes more sense when I saw you have no bridal party, etc.


You aren''t including your dress/his suit/the rings/an officiant/a ketubah/speaker rentals? Actually I bet the restaurant has speakers, ah ha.


We''re doing a tent reception, which people have noted can get expensive fast if you don''t pay attention.


Oooh, we are doing a DIY huppah as well. Going to use this:

http://www.do-it-yourself-weddings.com/wedding-chuppah.html

 

[rainbowtrout]

GAH--we haven't bought anything and our budget is over budget, which means I don't want to buy anything until it's right. I'm trying to budget realistically here so we don't get surpised later, but tell me if any of this is easily slashed:

Reception: 1800 (500 rentals, 1,000.00 food, 200 drinks, 150 cake plus cookies and pies)
Attire: 1,078 (650 my dress, 350 his tux, 60 longline bra)
Ceremony: 137 (150 ketubah, glass, huppah, ribbons for decoration etc)
Flowers/Decor: 200 (for potted plants, ribbons)
Music: 700 (500 ceremony live music, 200 speaker rental for reception with iPod)
Photog: 600 (450 maximum it will be to transport his friend doing the photography, 150 prints)
His Ring: 450.00 (I bought mine year and a half ago)
Transport: 250.00 (for a shuttle from hotel to house? can't fit 60 cars in the road around the back...this would be very classy, but can be cut easily I think with some fineagling).
Gifts: 100.00 (for my grandparents who are hosting it).
Stationary: 225

total:5,615.


I just KNOW that if we START overbudget, we will STAY overbudget.

What I totally will not compromise on: good food and a full meal (lunch or brunch). His ring.


ETA: the one item we have bought is my dress, cost was 500 with 150 of alterations.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/17/2007 4:02:51 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
That''s great about the restaurant! What a deal.


Just looking at your list I kept thinking what about? and ? and ? Makes more sense when I saw you have no bridal party, etc.



You aren''t including your dress/his suit/the rings/an officiant/a ketubah/speaker rentals? Actually I bet the restaurant has speakers, ah ha.



We''re doing a tent reception, which people have noted can get expensive fast if you don''t pay attention.



Oooh, we are doing a DIY huppah as well. Going to use this:


http://www.do-it-yourself-weddings.com/wedding-chuppah.html

Since we''re getting married in CA, and we''re doing a combo-quaker/jewish wedding, our best two best friends will actually marry us. They are paying for the day of license as a gift.

I''m making the ketubah myself, so not paying for that either. Speakers my dad is actually bringing because he''s in a band as a hobby.

Dress, suit, and rings are not included though. We''re paying for those things ourselves and they were both outside the budget.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Quaker-Jewish? Cool, I''d like to see that.
Making your own ketubah, eh? Hmmm...mind if I pick your brain on that one as well?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/17/2007 4:44:15 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
Quaker-Jewish? Cool, I'd like to see that.

Making your own ketubah, eh? Hmmm...mind if I pick your brain on that one as well?

Hehe, yes my FI was raised quaker and I was raised jewish mostly. My dad's side of the family is technically methodist, but they don't practice, so I was raised knowing jewish stuff mostly.

For the ketubah, I don't mind at all if you pick our brain. I'm basically going to make it in either a word document or paint, or something like that. We want ours to look modern, and don't care if it's hand written or not, so we decided to make one ourselves. Yet to be determined exactly how though! But I think we'll use the dandelions from our invites and STD's and just put that as a little graphic at the bottom, then the wording at the top, and lines for everyone to sign below it.

But, there are some GREAT websites with wording for Ketubahs. The "wedding certificate" is traditional in Quaker marriages too, so it's really nice that it is actually from BOTH of our religions.

So we are just using this website, since they have "interfaith" ketubah wording:
http://www.dreamscometrueinvitations.com/images/Ketubot/modern_english_hebrew_head_different.jpg

 

[aljdewey]

..

 

[rainbowtrout]

..?

 

[Haven]

Just so you ladies know, I used to work at my synagogue as the school administrator, and we let several couples borrow our chuppah for no charge for their wedding ceremonies. If you belong to a temple, it won''t hurt to ask, and if they do charge, you can always let them know you have a tight budget but it''s really important for you to have the chuppah, and they will likely be happy to lend it out to you. Everyone''s a sucker for a good marriage!

I love the DIY ketubah idea, also. My sister and I gave my parents a gorgeous ketubah for their 25th wedding anniversary because their original was very modest--you can always get an "upgrade" from your future children one day!

Good luck!

 

[basil]

I think you should just ask him.

A lot of people will say "It''s tacky/rude/unbecoming to ask people for money for your wedding". But if you''re close to your parents, it''s not such a big deal. "Hey dad, we''d really like to invite Aunt Sally/Uncle Joe/Cousin Sam, but we won''t be able to if we don''t get some help. What do you think?" Maybe it''s not important to him, maybe it is. But you won''t know until you ask.

If I were your fiance''s father, I would rather be asked for money and not want to/be able to give it than to show up at the wedding and go "hey, where is everyone".

 

[rainbowtrout]

I'm going to have to leave it up to FI. He and his parents have a complicated relationship with money, and I think he might not like to ask him directly. Besides, they did pay for his undergrad and (hopefully) will help him some with med school.

I like sending him the guest list and seeing what happens, but that also opens us up to lots of people getting "added" and not offered any help...we can just refuse, obviously, but it gets alkward.

 

[Selkie]

I saw you have his tux at $350-is that to buy one? We are renting one from Men''s Wearhouse, and they run about $80-$120 for the rental of everything. They carry Kenneth Cole and Ralph Lauren, so they are pretty decent tuxes. Just a thought on where you can save a little. Also, MW will ship the tux to any of their locations, which is great for destination/OOT weddings.

 

[budgetbride]

I agree, don''t outright ask for the money. If your sweetie''s dad starts talking about inviting more people, kindly let him know that the budget is tight and it would cost more to host more.

As you plan, trust me, people will ask more about your invite list.

Not too worry, your budget and list is VERRRRY doable. You just have to be willing to bargain with vendor, search for deals and determine what you can do without.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Yeah, 350 was to buy one. I''ll bring up renting, I didn''t know it was so much cheaper ! I had put to buy because my feminist guilt muscle said "Well, he didn''t ask me to rent my dress!" But....that''s a lot of difference in price there.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Haven: good to know about the huppah! we have to find a rabbi that will marry us (atheist/conservative Jew) first...then we'll see if he will lend us one, but the DIY isn't that bad if we need to.


Neatfreak: I talked to FI, we are going to DIY the ketubah as well--apparently he thought we had decided this already

I'm pretty excited, this means I can put exactly what I want on it (I saw a 15th century one microcalligraphed with the entire Book of Ruth, which is pretty great...shouldn't be too hard to manipulate the English or even Hebrew text into a small font and arrange attractively, etc. He did photo layout for a number of years so hopefully he will be good with this.


Selkie: Yay, budget suggestions! Anyone with any ideas please chime in--are my numbers underbudget, overbudget, etc? Wedding is in Dunstable (right next to Nashua NH) so prices aren't Boston high but aren't cheap per se.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Here is the modern ketubah I thought was very attractive, also with Ruth on it:

 

[Love in Bloom]

Rainbowtrout, where did you find this modern ketubuh?? That is just beautiful. DF and I are also incorporating Ruth in the written and spoken ceremony. He is jewish and I''m not anything really. (Don''t you just love these mix match unions

?)

 

[enbcfsobe]

i think it is appropriate to ask for help when families make requests/demands that your budget cannot meet. while we can debate all day about whether you''re entitled to money, i don''t think many would argue that anyone''s family is entitled to invite everyone they want to, especially if they''re not willing to pitch in to cover the gap.
i think that my parents would greatly appreciate me asking for their assistance in order to include all those people they''d like to invite, rather than just saying no, we just can''t, and that''s that. i''m sorry, but the latter strikes me as far more disrespectful to my parents than politely asking for some help.
it''s all about give and take from both sides. it seems like a number of people on this board are lucky (or unlucky) enough to have parents who don''t interfere with planning or don''t care what''s going on with the wedding. my parents are well-meaning, but nosy and somewhat controlling. i think an important part of managing this is making clear that my priorities and theirs won''t always be in perfect alighnment, and that if they think that something should be different, they are going to have to take some initiative, financial or otherwise, to change it. otherwise i am constantly either 1) bending to their every whim to my emotional and financial detriment or 2) alienating them by rebuffing every attempt to be involved.

i''m genuinely hoping that the reason no one ganged up on this poster and told her she would basically be damned for life by even considering asking for money was because they learned their lesson and decided this site should be different from the knot. i was greatly disappointed by the dialogue on the other thread -- when it comes to rings, those who don''t like something usually just say nothing at all. it is so sad that weddings are a topic that really does seem to bring out the worst in everyone, whether it be bad decisionmaking about finances or an inability to know when to stop trying to change someone''s mind.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 6/19/2007 9:31:12 AM
Author: enbcfsobe
i'm genuinely hoping that the reason no one ganged up on this poster and told her she would basically be damned for life by even considering asking for money was because they learned their lesson and decided this site should be different from the knot. i was greatly disappointed by the dialogue on the other thread -- when it comes to rings, those who don't like something usually just say nothing at all. it is so sad that weddings are a topic that really does seem to bring out the worst in everyone, whether it be bad decisionmaking about finances or an inability to know when to stop trying to change someone's mind.

Let's straighten things out here shall we?

Comments on a ring may not be made by those who don't like it, it's the understandable and polite way. But! It's a matter of personal taste in jewelry and that's it - now if a question on a topic is some ethical/moral issue members may feel much stronger, and that's understandable too right?

So, our suggestion as the moderators of this board is: If the OP does not want honest opinions from other members on the matter, PLEASE DO NOT ASK HERE.
Resort to your friends, family members or counselor, etc.

Thank you for cooperation.

This note is not directed to rainbowtrout.

 

[rainbowtrout]

*eyes previous two posts and hopes thread doesn't degenerate*


OK, well, what I would like are opinions on the budget in the what-do-you-think might be cut arena and is-this-realistic, and the tactful-ways-to-let-FFIL-know who we are inviting so he can decide if he wants to help out arena...


Sorry if that wasn't clear to anyone. Yeeps.




thanks for the referee PS.

 

[enbcfsobe]

if you read my post, I gave exactly what you were looking for. just ask. see what he says. the worst he can say is no, but at least it will be clear that there is a reason for leaving people off the list and that its a reason he can remedy if he wants to. i think the option of sending the list without his guests on it risks just as much of a negative reaction, and sending the list with those people but without a request doesn''t communicate anything at all. i think you''ve already decided that you won''t invite people you can''t afford, which makes sense. why not just be open about it? it seems from your original post that''s what you''d really like to do. i don''t think it''s a moral/ethical question at all -- just a question of how up-front you want to and are comfortable being.

in terms of budget, i have no idea where you are or what level of fanciness you and FI (or the various parents involved) expect, so I can''t comment much. I do think you may have a bit of trouble getting the level of food you''d like for approx 16-18/head (1000 divided by 60ish -- stop me if my math is messed up). Then again, I have no idea what you''re envisioning (bagels and lox? blinis and caviar? crepes?), or if your best friend is a caterer, so I don''t really know. It isn''t always possible to find as good a deal as Neatfreak seems to have gotten.
I don''t think it''s anti-feminist to ask him to rent a tux if he personally doesn''t really care that much. While I haven''t looked into renting a gown, it seems to me that there are many fewer options for rental wedding gowns in terms of finding something you really like, whereas tuxes are pretty generic overall and it is easy to get lots of options.
If you''re not doing this in the middle of the summer, you could think about getting a school bus instead of a fancier shuttle. I''m considering this even though we''ll probably be doing a fancier evening type thing. As long as it gets you there and back (and on the way back, who''s going to remember or care?), I don''t think it should be a big deal, though I wouldn''t ask people to sit on an unairconditioned bus in August. I also, however, don''t know how much $ it would save. It''s only worth it if it is a significant savings.
I think one easy way to save $$ (and time!) is to have huppah holders. I think this is a fabulous way to include more folks in the ceremony, and it means all you need is a large tallas or sheet and 4 broomsticks or dowels. No need to mess with pvc and cement and all that, though it is a cute idea! If you ask your local synagogue they may even have huppah poles available to borrow (they are made with thingies on the end to go through the holes in the corner of a tallas where the tzitit are attached).
Bottom line -- you guys are having quite a frugal wedding. I''m not suggesting you need to save more, but these are a few ways you might do so or give some room to reshuffle to emphasize your priorities. You shouldn''t feel bad at all asking for a little extra help if needed.

 

[rainbowtrout]

......I didn''t say you DIDN''T answer my question; I was more replying to Pricescope''s comment on "unless the OP specifically asks"....

RE: asking his father. it''s a complicated question, because of their relationship with money. If it were my parents, I would probably just ask. FI has issues with his father and money, and if there is a way to indirectly ask it would be better. We might send him the list and say, we know X people aren''t here, we can''t really afford them.... and see what he says. Trust me, there is no "simple" with this family and money and after thinking about it/reading the responses, I think letting HIM offer is better. That way in med school if we need food, etc, he can''t say, "Well you asked me for wedding money"...or something like that. I don''t even want to put up with jokes about it. This is the guy that said when we graduated, "Great, now I don''t have to pay for anything ever again." I mean no, you certainly don''t have to......you also don''t have to bring up how much you paid at every opportunity.


Is a school bus less expensive? May in Boston isn''t that hot, so it shouldn''t be an issue--but how on earth does one even *get* a schoolbus?

Huppah holders are a great idea, actually--now that I think of it, he has 3 brothers and will have 1 other attendant I think, which is 4 people to hold it up. I''d rather not fool with concrete if I don''t have to; plus I don''t like the look of overly-flowered huppahs anyway.

RE: food. I''m afraid of that. I have seen some simple lunches for around 16-18 a person, but I am not sure of quality. If I can do a upscale "lunchbox" it would be great--I saw a sample of this in Martha Stewart and it looked excellent. Fancy sandwiches on good bread, tomato mozarella salad, corn on the cob, and some other small munchy side dish like gourmet potato chips.

Other option is a simple brunch with a roast, omlette station, juices and coffee. I have seen this for around 16-18.


It isn''t really a question of should or need in the moral sense, it''s more that 5k is how much money there is in the budget---he''s going into med school, I''m in graduate school, and we want to have a child before I''m 32. I have debt from undergrad and he''s going into--what--like 250k?--over med school. So...we don''t want to have a justice of the peace wedding, but we considered it for a while. That''s why I asked for ways to get it under 5k--every amount over that is money we just don''t have. *shrug*

 

[enbcfsobe]

style="WIDTH: 97.46%; HEIGHT: 61px">Date: 6/19/2007 1:12:58 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
......I didn''t say you DIDN''T answer my question; I was more replying to Pricescope''s comment on ''unless the OP specifically asks''....

ok, sorry about the misunderstanding -- now I get it.

i completely understand about not wanting to ask b/c you are concerned they will bring it up at every turn. and the debt. you hadn''t really talked about this before, but it does make it something of a different story, esp. if both of you are still in school. i can understand wanting to just send him the guest list you can afford and then let him ask about why X, Y and Z aren''t on it, although if he is someone who will lord things over your heads, i''m not sure it makes much difference how the asking/offering comes about or not. people who do that as a means of control tend to not differentiate between something offered willingly and something requested. this drama plays out in my family all too often, but since it doesn''t make much difference in my case who asked or offered the $, i lean towards asking up front at this point because its less drama in the long run. this may not be the case for you and FI, and may also be something that you''ll have to navigate going forward in your relationship.

i think you can call most school bus companies (here in PA there is Laidlaw -- don''t know what it is in Boston) and ask for a price. my sister does this for her USY kids all the time and, at least here, it is cheaper than the charter buses/vans that have a/c and nice seats and such. you could ask about a short bus, too, since school buses seat more than your total list and you would probably want to have a few shuttle runs for those arriving/departing at different times. you''d have to ask to see whether the cost difference is worth it (if any).

i was thinking of a buffet brunch with stations, too. one nice thing is that you''re not tied to one caterer since it''s a family home, so you should be able to negotiate good pricing. if you have friends that work in big companies or law firms, you might ask who they use to cater their breakfasts/lunches (maybe I''m the only food fiend who pays attention to this, but who knows). a lot of the places that we get food in from at my law firm have yummy food but wouldn''t come up on most bride''s lists b/c they aren''t "wedding caterers". they''d be great resources, though, for doing a brunch or light lunch.

one thing that wasn''t in your budget was an officiant -- did I miss something earlier about this or are you getting that service gratis? for a jewish wedding, you don''t actually need an officiant at all for it to be official (though be careful about state laws on what you need for a legal wedding). there is a good book by anita diamant (who wrote the red tent), i think its called "The New Jewish Wedding" and it gives lots of info on how to DIY your ceremony and all sorts of ketubah and ceremony options for officiated and non-officiated weddings and helpful stuff for non-observant and interfaith weddings as well.