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You have received some great "food for thought", but the only way you''re going to find out what''s going on (whether it be verbal or physical abuse, stress, frustration, etc.) is to talk to your sister. And the best way to do this is through family counseling. You can guess at the problem all you want, but nothing will be resolved without professional intervention--the moment she hit you she made it obvious that she has some issues to work out.

Seeing as this behavior is not the norm for your sister, I''m sure she realizes that something is not right. She may not be able to determine the source of her anger alone, but she sounds intelligent enough to know that her behavior was more than inappropriate. Is there any way you can convince her to join you (or you and your parents) for counseling? The premise for the session would be that her relationship with her fiance is impacting your family. She can then feel that she will be given the chance to discuss her relationship and feelings in a secure environment (and actually be heard), and you and your parents would be able to do the same. If the Marriage and Family Therapist is a good one, he/she will ask your sister to attend some private sessions as well to deal with her anger management and the root of her problems.

I personally would not resort to giving her ultimatums as it will only infuriate her even more. The last thing you want to do is push her away from you and into her fiance''s arms--especially if he is abusing her. More than ever she needs to feel supported by you and your family, and the best way to do this is to go to therapy together to discuss your feelings. It''s fine for you to be honest with your sister and tell her that you don''t feel comfortable with her now and that you cannot forgive her for what she did, but that does not mean you do not support her. Just look at what you''re doing here....

If you want to discuss this in more detail, please feel free to PM me. Just remember that no one can give good advice without hearing both sides. Until we know what your sister is going through it''s impossible to tell you what the best solution is--except for the suggestion to seek help, and to make sure you take care of yourself.

On a personal note, I am SOOOOOO sorry that you were injured by your sister. My heart really goes out to you.
 
We''re the kind of people that everything is hush hush. My parents have NEVER mentioned the incident. They took me to the hospital, brought me home, and then acted like it never happened.

Alley, this HAS to change before anything else will happen. Pretending that everything is okay is not going to help your sister or your family.

And, I can''t imagine your family agreeing to go to a family therpist when they won''t even talk about it to you!

What would happen if you brought it up?
 
OMG ally that''s terrible! I hope that your sister gets some much needed counselling and that you two can reconcile and have a good relationship again. Your sis is obviously harnessing some deep anger, maybe you can help her figure out why?
 
Ally: I think that Researcher''s thoughtful, compassionate and very wise contribution to this thread is a perfect example of how truly helpful a good professional can be.

I will be thinking of you and your sister a great deal in the weeks to come.

Best best wishes,
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Date: 1/11/2006 10:20:17 PM
Author: Patty
We''re the kind of people that everything is hush hush. My parents have NEVER mentioned the incident. They took me to the hospital, brought me home, and then acted like it never happened.


Alley, this HAS to change before anything else will happen. Pretending that everything is okay is not going to help your sister or your family.


And, I can''t imagine your family agreeing to go to a family therpist when they won''t even talk about it to you!


What would happen if you brought it up?
Click to expand...


The one good thing about therapy is people go for different reasons. Her parents may feel that it''s the only way to get her sister to leave her fiance. However, they may also choose not to go. If that''s the case, Ally can still go with her sister just to discuss the incident.

Either way, Patty''s right that sweeping everything under the carpet will not help anyone. Ally, you will need to tell your parents how serious the situation is. Maybe you can come together as a family to come up with a solution. Otherwise, I would ask them to go to therapy as a favor to you--and especially your sister. Tell them your concerns about possible emotional and/or physical abuse if necessary. Even the most private families will seek counseling (eventually) once they realize there is a problem they alone can not solve.

Ally, if your family really won''t go to counseling, I have some literature I can recommend to help you. I just hesitate to pass it along because you should not have to take on this burden by yourself, especially considering what has befallen you already.
 
Ally,
I am so glad that you have gotten such sound and wise advice from researcher. My heart goes out to you tonight and will be thinking of you. Hugs, Lisa
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Ally,

I am so very sorry to read of your situation and I will keep you in my personal prayers...omg...as has already been stated here, your sister is very deeply hurting and as researcher and others have mentioned, do not give her ultimatums. You do NOT know what could happen.

On a personal note...my family--me, hubby, two daughters and oldest son--are going to family therapy and it may very well be the only way for us to get through some serious and potentially family-dividing issues. My eldest daughter is very conniving and--I believe--in real pain. Her pain is so intense and rooted so deep that she feels she has to lash out at me every way conceivable at me. I believe she is capable of violence against me personally, though she hasn''t done so...yet.

I pray that our therapy will prevent that from happening. I only share this with you because when its family, you want and need to believe in hope...in the belief that because they are part of you, there has to be a way.

I don''t know what the future and therapy holds for my family, but my heart is full of the belief that hope, love, and the knowledge of a therapist--and alot of prayers--can and will make a difference.

Somehow, the dynamics in your family HAVE to change for the family to be healthy...I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts...God speed...
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Ally,

I did not read the 1-800-FLOWERS thread and knew nthing of your future brother-in-law and sister. The last I remember reading about you was that you had passed your French exam and were going to be able to attend medical school.

I am glad you posted this in, "Hangout" rather than in a forum directed mainly at brides-to-be. I think the whole Pricescope community wants to support you.

I have no advice not already offered, but please feel free to contact me if I can be of any help as a listener!

Hugs,
Deb
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I can''t add anything more than ((((((((HUGS)))))))).

The advice everyone has given is wonderful.

You are in my prayers. I hope your family can pull through this together.
 
Ally (hugs) I don''t envy your position and I do hope you are (physically) feeling better.

The hallmarks of an abuser — both verbal and physical — include jealousy, a need to control, efforts to isolate their partner or relative, attempts to rush a romantic relationship and disrespect for privacy and personal boundaries.

I''m no professional but it sounds like the intelligent PS crowd might be on to something just from the small amount you''ve shared with us. Maybe it''s not your place to intervene and maybe it is. Only you can decide. I''m thinking of you.
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Just a question Alley, they stuff Researcher suggested is great and wonderful advice but you said your family is very hush hush and they didn''t say anything about it. Would they be opposed to going to family counseling? I know some families that are "hush hush" about things have that whole theory of ''we don''t air our dirty laundry'' and they would not be into going in as a big group and discussing things. I was just curious.......

Also i''m a little concerned in your sisters reaction. I''m no professional and it sounds like researcher may be! And like I already stated I think her advice is awesome and I hope that everyone involved in your situation will be up for it. BUT......I guess this would depend on how your sister is acting now. If she seems upset or apologectic then i''d say she might be open to going. She might do it even if at first she doesn''t want to because of feeling bad for what she did. BUT...is she guilt free? She might still be just as angry. I hope not though. But my guess is that if she''s just as angry as she was then mentioning bringing in a professional to have your whole family discuss her relationship it might set her off again. Just a thought........
 
Ally,
I am so sorry you are going through such a difficult, painful time. You''ve been given excellent advice from the other members, I hope you and your family will overcome this and everything will work out in time. You and your family are in my prayers.
***BIG HUG***
 
Ally what a horrible story you had to tell....

I was SO shocked when I was reading it and saw that your sister attacked you, that's so horrible and I would also be devastated at that kind of literal abuse from both a family member and someone who you consider a best friend.

I didn't read through all the responses on the previous pages, but my first thought was that this guy is NOT good for her. You said she's very mild-mannered etc but she ATTACKED you! That speaks of some serious rage issues that she obviously does not feel she can take out anywhere else, and taking it out on you, her sister, was totally unacceptable!! She apologized? OMG...I can't even say what I would have done if I was sitting there with sprained wrists and my attacker was apologizing to me. This is why I also don't think I could ever be a battered woman or abused by anyone, I would LOSE IT if anyone ever touched me in a negative manner. Like adrenaline rush wheresmybat lose it.

The thought that I had was that he is either rubbing off on her with his negative ways OR he is abusing her and she is feeling helpless and out of control inside and took it out on you, her seemingly-passive (?) sister who loves her. She is probably banking on the fact that you love her unconditionally to get past the fact that she did this to you. Just like an abuser.

I really don't know what to say in terms of how to help her....because I really do believe in people being able to live their own lives, however they want to...but if asking an innocent question like 'why would T say that stuff to me' gets a PLATE thrown at your head and then trying to discuss it further makes her ATTACK you, then she does need some type of help. I mean that is seriously disturbing!! She may not be open to taking it though. It's so hard too because I think that your family pushing her away aka threatening to disown her or whatever is not helping the situation. She has to know that your family is there for her whatever she does, so that she does realize she has a safe haven in case anything happens aka he hurts her or she leaves him BUT that does not mean that you don't have a right to be upset with her or feel like that was inappropriate.

It's a really tough situation to be in...how horrible...good luck with everything and I really do feel like things DO work themselves out one way or another in the end. I just hope it's before more negative things happen. And your parents CANNOT just pretend that this did not happen. Something needs to give. Family therapy???
 
Oh Ally- ((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
What an awful situation!!
As horrifying and outrageous as your sister''s actions are- my heart goes out to both of you.
She is hurting, and is lashing out at the people that she feels safe expressing this violent emotion toward; you and your mom. She obviously does not feel safe with the cause of all this pain, that rat bastard fiance of hers.
That being said, it is not okay for her to physically attack you like that.
My sister and I are very close, if she ever did that to me, she would not only be bloody and black and blue, but I would sit her down and let her know that our sisterhood was on the line. That behaviour is just outrageous, and should not be tolerated. Everyone needs to get over their obsession with ''Saving Face'', and get to the bottom of this, before things get any worse. Good luck, I''m praying for you.
 
Hey everyone,

I really wanted to thank everyone for their kindness and support through this difficult time. All of you provided me with a lot of comfort (Researcher, I especially appreciate the time you took to weigh in with your professional opinon.)

Well I did speak to my sister about the problems (as calmly as possible but the sitaution once again quickly escalated out of control). Suffice to say that many of you were correct in your assumptions (and brought something to my attention that I had never considered before).

Unfortunately, my parents denied once again that there was a problem. And my sister violently opposed to any sort of help or getting out of the relationship.... I did talk to a resource group at school which was immensely helpful to me (perhaps of becoming more accepting of the reality, and my own powerlessness against the situation), but I don''t think at this moment that I can do anything to end my sister''s current situation. At this point it''s very hard to accept that a smart, educated girl can allow this sort of physical and verbal abuse, but I also feel like there is not much I can do. I am very much a control-freak, so this situation is very difficult to handle.

In some cases, there can''t be a perfect resolution (at least not right away).

Thanks again to all of you for being so wonderful during the process.
 
Oh, Ally...I''m so glad you checked in! I''ve been thinking about you, girl!

How wonderful that you''ve found a support system at school! Groups can be so so helpful!

Well, it sure does sound like the best thing is to let go, and step back from this situation, and concentrate on your life, and on taking care of yourself. It sounds like your sister has to follow her own path, and learn, her way.

I''d certainly try to avoid social contact with both her and her BF as much as possible.

"My parents denied that there was a problem" Oh, dear.

Perhaps sometime in the future, after a few more "scenes", they''ll come around to admitting that there is a problem, and be more open to seeking outside help.

Until then, concentrate on TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF and know you''ve got lots of people here thinking of you!

(((hugs)))

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Date: 1/16/2006 3:50:00 PM
Author: allycat0303
I did talk to a resource group at school which was immensely helpful to me (perhaps of becoming more accepting of the reality, and my own powerlessness against the situation)
Click to expand...

Thanks for updating us! Lots of caring folk hoping you get the answers & peace you need!

I''m so glad you found a campus resource to shed external, judgement-free light on the type of situation you find yourself in! Its SO HARD to accept that there are things we CAN''T change, no matter how pure our intentions are -- or how much clearer we''re thinking than the person smack in the middle of it.

Do protect yourself as best you can - physically & emotionally - with distance probably (as others have said!) SO FRUSTRATING (& heartbreaking) THOUGH!! I really feel for ya!
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Oh, sweet Ally, I don''t have much to add, but we are here for you, and I''m proud of you for taking care of YOURSELF even if your sister isn''t ready or able to get the individual and group counseling that she really deserves. Her BF is clearly an abuser, and it is a terrible situation. HANG IN THERE and don''t let your parents'' non-handling of it get you down--you take care of YOU and do what you have to do.

((((HUGS))))
 
Ally,
I have been thinking of you as well. Sounds like you found a wonderful resource at your school. I'm sure that will be a big help and comfort to you during this difficult time. I agree with everyone in that you do need to take care of yourself. Stepping away from your sister may be the wisest thing you can do for yourself right now. Time to breath and take care of YOU. Biggest HUGS. We are here for you. Lisa
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Date: 1/16/2006 3:50:00 PM
Author: allycat0303
Hey everyone,


I really wanted to thank everyone for their kindness and support through this difficult time. All of you provided me with a lot of comfort (Researcher, I especially appreciate the time you took to weigh in with your professional opinon.)


Well I did speak to my sister about the problems (as calmly as possible but the sitaution once again quickly escalated out of control). Suffice to say that many of you were correct in your assumptions (and brought something to my attention that I had never considered before).


Unfortunately, my parents denied once again that there was a problem. And my sister violently opposed to any sort of help or getting out of the relationship.... I did talk to a resource group at school which was immensely helpful to me (perhaps of becoming more accepting of the reality, and my own powerlessness against the situation), but I don''t think at this moment that I can do anything to end my sister''s current situation. At this point it''s very hard to accept that a smart, educated girl can allow this sort of physical and verbal abuse, but I also feel like there is not much I can do. I am very much a control-freak, so this situation is very difficult to handle.


In some cases, there can''t be a perfect resolution (at least not right away).


Thanks again to all of you for being so wonderful during the process.
Click to expand...


I''m so sorry you''re going through this. One thing I should have mentioned is that you should not try to talk to your sister on your own--it just isn''t safe, and without counseling you will not know the best way to approach her. Now, my concern is that, if she does not get help, things will only get worse. It''s like the situation where an alcoholic doesn''t think he/she has a problem, and therefore won''t give up drinking. Sometimes the people we love NEED us to take control, to help them even when they don''t think they need it. Ally, do you have anyone in your area who you can go to for help (even if it''s just the resource group?)? My concern is your safety, as well as your sister''s. If your parents won''t get involved it will make things tough. But, you CAN help your sister.

Have you tried calling a woman''s help line or domestic abuse hotline? Your local branches will list their numbers in the front of your phone book. You can stay anonymous with these groups, and they will give you solid advice. They will tell you the signs to look for, and how best to handle the situation. This can also be true of your doctor or minister. Leave it to them to decide if there needs to be an intervention.

The only advice I can give you is to support your sister, even if it means you do it from a distance to keep yourself safe. It REALLY is important. She needs to know that you will be there for her. Let HER be the one to complain about her man, not the other way around. I know it''s hard to keep quiet about her relationship, but sometimes that''s the only way to keep your sister for turning away from you--and straight to him. And, if she''s opposed to getting professional help right now, there''s not much you can do. You can try to get her to go to a therapist to work on your relationship with her, but you can''t force her to go see anyone. At best, try to get her to call you if she needs a friendly ear.

I know it''s hard to accept that she may be in an abusive relationship, but trust me when I say plenty of smart, well educated people end up in these relationships. You have to keep in mind that the abusers are not stupid, that they will tell the people they abuse that they are their world, that no one loves them as much, and that everything they do is out of love. It''s hard to think of someone like that doing you harm.

Ally, first and foremost I hope you take care of yourself. But, do your best not to abandon your sister as she needs you whether she realizes it or not. I know you said the other group made you realize you are powerless, but I disagree with this. IMO you have the power to be there for your sister when she needs you, and to figure out what resources are available in your area to help get your sister out of the situation. Remember, these things rarely improve over time.

Good luck with everything! I hope you are healing physically if not emotionally!

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Ally,
Like I said i''m no professional here. In what you described what pretty much what I posted I thought would happen. Your sister is upset and probably a bit paranoid and edgy. I''m sure the second you approached her and started talking about it she got defensive and upset like YOU were trying to do something to HER. From how you described your family i''m not surprised they wouldn''t do therapy. Yes there are a LOT of people out there in the world that realize what a great thing therapy is and go, but there are a LOT of people as well who see it as something they would be ashamed of. They would be embarassed to tell anyone, it''s for crazy people, weak people ect. Now I guess you have two ways to go....One, try taking some sort of action. Talking to your sister again, with other around of course. Or even something dramatic like getting together with a proffesional for some sort of intervention ect ect. Or inaction, which would be baisically what has already been said. Stepping aside and letting it be, but also telling your sister you are there for her no matter what.

A question is your future brother in law aware of what happened? Did he say anything to you about it?
 
Hi Alleycat,

I was looking for an update and was wondering how the situation is going with your sister, boyfriend and your parents. I was wondering if you and she have made amends?

I wish you well,

Bridget
 
Bridget,

Thanks for thinking of me. I don''t know if we''ve made amends..more like an uneasy truce. My sister has told me that they will be engaged sometime in the following month. There''s not that much that any one can do about it, after all she is 24 and able to make her own decisions.

There was a period about a month ago where she contemplated leaving him, and I was very hopeful, introduced her to a few asian doctors to be, but after meeting two of the guys she told me "it just made me love my boyfriend more" I realized then that she''s very set on him.

Hugs! Thanks for thinking of me.
 
I''ve been wondering about this too. I''m sorry to hear your sister will not listen to reason, but there might be something she needs to learn from all this... I hope this all turns out for the best. My thoughts are with you!
 
OMG, Alleycat... I''m so shocked! I don''t even know what to say! I''m so sorry for your ordeal... Are you ok??
 
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