Someone is shady

[kelpie]

http://www.etsy.com/listing/66268272/rose-gold-and-green-tourmaline

versus

http://cgi.ebay.com/8mm-EMERALD-14K-ROSE-GOLD-ENGAGEMENT-DIAMOND-RING-4-11g-/370498832521?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item5643738889

 

[T L]

I think I heard of an etsy seller that sells LOGR's once. That might be the culprit.

 

[Arcadian]

ooo yeah! I remember coming across that about a month ago. I can only figure that they're all pretty much made in the same manufacturer in china. Etsy sure has gotten interesting!!

oh and some of the descrips read

"As all items are handmade here in Ireland please allow 5 weeks for delivery."

it makes me kinda ugly-laff

-A

 

[Indylady]

Shame. That is just terrible.

 

[kelpie]

It's one thing to be a reseller but one is a "tourmaline" and one is an "emerald". Frankly it doesn't look like either.

 

[Indylady]

Would you guys report this?

I just did. This person is even taking LOGR's photography, doubling or nearly tripling the price, and then calling the 5 week waiting period the time it takes to 'hand craft' the setting. It is truly a shame. I find LOGR to be a reputable vendor--stealing images from them is truly horrific, and then scamming your customers so that they think you've designed a piece for them is even worse.

 

[Arcadian]

Would you guys report this?

I just did. This person is even taking LOGR's photography, doubling or nearly tripling the price, and then calling the 5 week waiting period the time it takes to 'hand craft' the setting. It is truly a shame. I find LOGR to be a reputable vendor--stealing images from them is truly horrific, and then scamming your customers so that they think you've designed a piece for them is even worse.

Well the thing is, are they really? Whomever LOGR uses I would not doubt they they also sell settings to others...I do not doubt that for a minute as there are several Asian based sellers on ebay who sell pretty much the same settings!!


Now, granted this person is fudging a bit on their listings, calling them "made in ireland"... because lets face it, thats a bit of a stretch. I can understand reporting them on that. But they may very well not be stealing any images at all.

The price, well... its what the market will bear. They are apparently having some quite happy customers.

-A

 

[kelpie]

If you are certain that the etsy seller is the one that's the copycat then I think you are right in reporting it. It will still deprive LOGR of potential sales though. The person that loses is always the customer.

 

[chrono]

It also stated that the setting contains conflict free diamonds. I wonder how the vendor is going to prove that?

 

[LD]

I've reported the Etsy vendor because if you look at his/her store you'll see tons of LOGR semi mounts. To report look at the right hand side and you'll see "report this item". If you click on that, you'll see that one of the reportable offences is "handmade but not by this Etsy vendor".

 

[Indylady]

I don't think its LOGR. The photography is inconsistent. It seems that some pictures are lifted directly from LOGR, and some, such as a few diamond bands, seem to be photographed in a different place/studio--possibly photographed by the Etsy vendor.

 

[LD]

I thought the whole point of Etsy is that items were handmade by Etsy artisans? If that's the case then this vendor is absolutely in breach and it's a reportable violation.

 

[VapidLapid]

LOGRs are handmade?

IT is shady to buy a stock setting then sell it as hand made and customized. Might not be shady to use the stock photos from the supplier of the settings to advertise those settings though.

 

[LD]

If you click on the "about" section in Etsy it says its aim is to "buy, sell and live handmade". The video by the founder of Etsy clearly talks about a community where nothing is mass produced etc.

 

[K9]

I totally noticed this seller last night and thought "wait a minute..."

The interesting part to me is the feedback of the seller. ?

 

[Aerix]

This shop also looks like it uses LOGR settings:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/EidelPrecious?ref=pr_shop_more

ETA:
LOGR legacy: http://www.etsy.com/listing/63907649/tanzanite-cushion-white-and-yellow-gold
LOGR basic oval halo: http://www.etsy.com/listing/65383299/oval-champagne-peach-sapphire-diamond

 

[Arcadian]

What Etsy offers has definitely changed over the last year or so, so its not just hand made items. Its also vintage and supplies.

Ok, so taken point by point, the item IS being made....somewhere! Just probably not in Ireland! If the settings are customized, that may be the loophole they use to get around the "handmade" portion.

All of the items in that store are not traceable back to LOGR.

Unless we're in the loop, we really don't know what type of deal this seller has with the manufacturer of those settings.

Also this;

I doubt that LOGR is actually losing anything off of this seller and I'll tell you why;

Most often than not, most roads lead through pricescope anyway for LOGR settings. And who do we usually recommend? LOGR on Ebay. This Etsy seller sure, they're going to make a few sales, but lets just say for kicks and grins, IF they're buying the settings and rings from LOGR via the ebay route, or even privately, they likely are paying the same price we do on ebay.. maybe a little lower but lets just say they're paying what we would pay on ebay for the sake of keeping it simple.

So with that scenario LOGR would make their money one way or another and will lose nothing at all.

IF they had a deal with the same manufacture that LOGR uses, well, LOGR wouldn't be in the loop in the first place. These settings are pretty much all over the place, so nothing new there. They could very well be using the manufacturer's pictures for all we know..as could LOGR.

At the end of the day Its their customer who pays the price of doing business with them. It just goes to show that even on Etsy, you have to do your due diligence.

-A

 

[LD]

You're right Arc however I don't believe that's the spirit of Etsy. Look at the screen grab below - you'll see if you click on the "report this item" button there is a list of violations and one is clearly that the item is not handmade by the seller.

True LOGR will be making their money because clearly this person is taking orders, including gold colour, customisation etc and then orders from LOGR. I presume the 5 week turnaround time is because they have to get the item from LOGR and then post onto to their buyer. It's just deceptive and I have a real problem with that.

 

[Arcadian]

I agree that its likey they're not being honest and I don't doubt thats why they need their 5 weeks.

But I also think we shouldn't think the LOGR is losing out either, that was the point of my last post. The wording that they're using, yes, THATS deceptive as hell. ( Unless there's an Ireland in China somewhere. )

So, I don't think know if anyone, including etsy will kick them off for those settings. They may very well tweak them a little in house. Handmade and handcrafted are two very heavily argued terms. Folks will twist those in whatever is advantageous to them (we all know that especially) So I can't really get outraged about that because unfortunately there's a lot of websites selling the exact same things with the handcrafted handmade baloney.



Case in point:
http://cgi.ebay.com/8mm-EMERALD-14K-ROSE-GOLD-ENGAGEMENT-DIAMOND-RING-4-11g_W0QQitemZ370498832521QQcategoryZ164343QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8248137160952494688


In the LOGR Listing:
" We handcraft over 20,000 pieces each year"

I would think thats a little...well... you know....


-A

 

[LD]

I agree that its likey they're not being honest and I don't doubt thats why they need their 5 weeks.

But I also think we shouldn't think the LOGR is losing out either, that was the point of my last post. The wording that they're using, yes, THATS deceptive as hell. ( Unless there's an Ireland in China somewhere. )

So, I don't think know if anyone, including etsy will kick them off for those settings. They may very well tweak them a little in house. Handmade and handcrafted are two very heavily argued terms. Folks will twist those in whatever is advantageous to them (we all know that especially) So I can't really get outraged about that because unfortunately there's a lot of websites selling the exact same things with the handcrafted handmade baloney.



Case in point:
http://cgi.ebay.com/8mm-EMERALD-14K-ROSE-GOLD-ENGAGEMENT-DIAMOND-RING-4-11g_W0QQitemZ370498832521QQcategoryZ164343QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8248137160952494688


In the LOGR Listing:
" We handcraft over 20,000 pieces each year"

I would think thats a little...well... you know....


-A

I really don't disagree. LOGR won't be losing out. Okay, LOGR's listing is stretching the definition of handcrafting but it's on Ebay and we know they mass produce settings - the numbers speak for themselves - although to be fair they do customise as well!

I guess the bug for me is that this vendor is on Etsy.

 

[Arcadian]

I agree that its likey they're not being honest and I don't doubt thats why they need their 5 weeks.

But I also think we shouldn't think the LOGR is losing out either, that was the point of my last post. The wording that they're using, yes, THATS deceptive as hell. ( Unless there's an Ireland in China somewhere. )

So, I don't think know if anyone, including etsy will kick them off for those settings. They may very well tweak them a little in house. Handmade and handcrafted are two very heavily argued terms. Folks will twist those in whatever is advantageous to them (we all know that especially) So I can't really get outraged about that because unfortunately there's a lot of websites selling the exact same things with the handcrafted handmade baloney.



Case in point:
http://cgi.ebay.com/8mm-EMERALD-14K-ROSE-GOLD-ENGAGEMENT-DIAMOND-RING-4-11g_W0QQitemZ370498832521QQcategoryZ164343QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8248137160952494688


In the LOGR Listing:
" We handcraft over 20,000 pieces each year"

I would think thats a little...well... you know....


-A

I really don't disagree. LOGR won't be losing out. Okay, LOGR's listing is stretching the definition of handcrafting but it's on Ebay and we know they mass produce settings - the numbers speak for themselves - although to be fair they do customise as well!

I guess the bug for me is that this vendor is on Etsy.

True, but sadly the internet is really a small place, and hope that Etsy dosen't open the can of worms and just invite any ol body, but, you see it already as they're allowing 'vintage' things and 'supplies'. And, some sellers of those things are leaving ebay for greener pastures... which is apparently Etsy.

So its a pain in the butt that we now have some of the same crap on ebay over on etsy. Some people are using etsy to sell one offs and some aren't.

While they could be reported for the deceptive wording, they could likely not get dinged for the product as there are ways around that.

Etsy would have to really clean house and tighten the belt on their definitions in order for that to happen. There are many things that are "vintage" that were and still are mass produced, but they allow it. Its quite the uphill battle though.

-A

 

[Lady_Disdain]

There is a huge number of resellers on Etsy - people who sell mass manufactured, generally Chinese products as handmade by themselves. Unfortunately, it also seems that Etsy is not willing to tackle that problem. There are resellers that have been reported many, many times and are still around, blatantly selling manufactured goods.

Vintage is another can of worms... There was recently a pair of modern ice skates been sold as decoration ("although you can wear them if you like!") on the Frontpage. Not handmade, not vintage and not supposed to be in Etsy at all, let alone featured.

 

[Deathspi]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but it looks like their taking images from ebay's BlueFoxCreations or whatever their called too.

There are too many dodgey sellers out there. A couple of months ago I reported an eBay seller who was selling 'vintage gemstone jewellery' when in fact it was Diamonique and was on QVC's website! I didn't see them again after that!

 

[pixgirl]

There is a huge number of resellers on Etsy - people who sell mass manufactured, generally Chinese products as handmade by themselves. Unfortunately, it also seems that Etsy is not willing to tackle that problem. There are resellers that have been reported many, many times and are still around, blatantly selling manufactured goods.

Vintage is another can of worms... There was recently a pair of modern ice skates been sold as decoration ("although you can wear them if you like!") on the Frontpage. Not handmade, not vintage and not supposed to be in Etsy at all, let alone featured.

Etsy apparently doesn't do much when it comes to shady dealings. I paid for, but never received some jewelry and because I was patient with the seller/artisan Etsy refused to do anything to help me get my money back. I'd never buy anything from Etsy again.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

There is a huge number of resellers on Etsy - people who sell mass manufactured, generally Chinese products as handmade by themselves. Unfortunately, it also seems that Etsy is not willing to tackle that problem. There are resellers that have been reported many, many times and are still around, blatantly selling manufactured goods.

Vintage is another can of worms... There was recently a pair of modern ice skates been sold as decoration ("although you can wear them if you like!") on the Frontpage. Not handmade, not vintage and not supposed to be in Etsy at all, let alone featured.

Etsy apparently doesn't do much when it comes to shady dealings. I paid for, but never received some jewelry and because I was patient with the seller/artisan Etsy refused to do anything to help me get my money back. I'd never buy anything from Etsy again.

Please don't paint all of us with the same brush - there are plenty of good, trust worthy people on Etsy who will go out of their way to make their clients happy.

Etsy management is baffling to me, though. And their idea of categories is scatter brained to say the least.

 

[Aerix]

Etsy apparently doesn't do much when it comes to shady dealings. I paid for, but never received some jewelry and because I was patient with the seller/artisan Etsy refused to do anything to help me get my money back. I'd never buy anything from Etsy again.

I had a similar experience with a seller. I don't want to go into details because it was such a horrible experience. It was a custom order for a pair of rings I wanted to have made and I sent 2 (fairly small, but sentimental) diamonds to the seller to have set into rings along with a few old gold pieces to melt down. Needless to say, it took over a year to get my stuff back and that was after I threatened to sue. She made me the rings but they turned out awful. (I have pics of them if anyone wants to see...) It was a stupid move on my part but a lesson learned. Etsy did not help me resolve the problem at all.

That being said, I still purchase from vendors with plenty of positive feedback and send my stones to them to have set, but I use more caution now. There are some wonderful people on Etsy who have great customer service, then there are resellers and just bad sellers in general. The positive part to my terrible ordeal was that I contacted another seller whom I'd had good experience with and they were able to unset my diamonds and sell the gold for me for 96% of its value. That same seller has been ignoring me lately though it seems since I asked about a custom piece (sent 2 or 3 messages) and they haven't gotten back to me...

 

[rubybeth]

I noticed this seller doing this a while ago when I found the "Bubble ring" in one of my searches:

http://www.etsy.com/transaction/41700924

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-07ct-DIAMOND-14K-WHITE-GOLD-WEDDING-ENGAGEMENT-RING-/370496553520?pt=US_Wedding_Bands_with_Diamonds_Gemstones&hash=item564350c230

I actually contacted "Lulu" about it since I was curious what she'd say. She actually wrote back to say, "The bubble ring will be available again in 2011 but at the minute we are all booked out for 2010 deliveries. The sale price is $999 for all sizes in 14k white gold "

It bugs me because she also says in the listing for the item, "I would rather spend ten times as long making a piece but know it will be timeless and be passed down the generations for years to come!" Reselling a piece ordered from whomever does not = making a piece, as far as I'm concerned, that's lying/fraud.

 

[Arcadian]

Lady_Distain, since you're a seller there, are there listing fees you have to pay? I'm assuming there are but I don't have a clue on etsy on that end. For ebay, if you could pay the fees, they let you list. IMO that was one of their biggest downfalls.

Because seriously, how sad is this isht??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170585229536&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Also, though I know there's some anger out there, but please lets not paint all Etsy sellers with the same brush. There's plenty of them that do play by the rules, and I don't doubt they're out there busting their hump to provide a great customer experience. There are good and bad no matter where you go.


-A

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Arcadian, Etsy has no control at all over who sells. Anyone could register and, 5 minutes later, have a storefront and list items. This is why the number of reseller and manufactured items is growing so fast. The definition of handmade is also quite loose and simply assembling parts is ok. They don't discriminate between a person who carefully selects harmonious components and someone who hangs a commercial charm on a commercial keychain and calls it handmade.

Etsy charges a fixed fee per listing and a percentage off every sale. Sounds reasonable, no? Unfortunately, the way searches are conducted leads to the "relisting game". Searches are sorted by date listed, not relevancy, so items listed earlier will show up higher than items that have been listed longer. They are also capped at 50.000 items per search. Since some categories are very saturated (like jewelry!), an item may not appear in general searches the very day they are listed, depending only on very specific searches to be seen (for example, "tourmaine cab ring" may find your item, while "tourmaline ring" won't). The solution is to relist items daily in order to be found, which becomes prohibitively expensive.

I shouldn't bite the hand that feeds me (well, not really, but it does throw a few morsels occasionally), but Etsy is becoming a trainwreck behind the scenes. Sellers are very upset and many good craftspeople are leaving or making plans to leave. For me, the traffic that Etsy generates is important right now but if I can become more established, I do plan on setting my own website up and leaving Etsy or, at least reducing the inventory there.

There are great people there and I really admire some of them. They are talented, hardworking and have been amazingly generous giving me advice and helping me get started. And I am their competition to top it off! I don't think I can mention them here, because of vendor rules, but I will happily name them to anyone who is interested. Ask any vendor you are considering a question or two - most will be polite, helpful and enthusiastic. Many of the rotten apples are easy to identify.

 

[Arcadian]

Thanks for that insight. To the consumer, etsy is being touted as the place where you can get handmade, and handcrafted things. *sigh* basically though its becoming Ebay2 sans auctions.

Its so sad and shouldn't be that way. I would REALLY hope that whomever is running Etsy takes a long hard look at what its becoming before the reputation of the place is ruined beyond repair.

-A