Sometimes food scares me

[bee*]

wow-I had heard of that before ksinger but I didn't know the full story about it. Thanks for the link!

 

[Jennifer W]

I stopped eating meat in my 20's. I lasted a year before I started eating it again. I am considering giving it up again. I hate the thought of the animals dying just so I can eat them. I know it will carry on even if I stop eating it though.

Maisie, it isn't just animal products I have issues with now. have you ever read "Shopped" by Johanna Blythman? She looks at how supermarkets in the UK operate, how all kinds of food is produced and how that goes for the people who produce it.

Recommended reading if you're concerned about food production. It's not for the faint hearted, though!

Jen

 

[megumic]

Meh, I dunno. Not to go religious, but God made animals and a food chain for a reason. Everyone has the right to use/eat animal products or not. For me personally, we only eat organic poultry and grass-fed beef. But I'm also super picky about our fish choices as well -- so many are super high in toxins. I think it is important to be aware, but a lot of people just don't care what they put into their bodies.

One of my biggest schticks lately is the overproduction of soy and corn products....blech. So awful for you.

 

[rhbgirl24]

I gave up red meat and poultry a few weeks ago because it makes me sad how animals are treated. Now I eat seafood and have been trying to eat more local produce. I'm hoping to eventually become a vegetarian.

ETA, I've also completely given up pop too. I feel so much better since changing my diet and people have told me I look better.

Sorry if I sounds kinda snarky here, but I have a marine bio degree... why did you give up beef and chicken but think its ok to eat seafood? Just for clarification here, I'm not a vegetarian, and I do eat seafood - I learned to a long time ago b/c sometimes in the field its the only thing fresh and readily available. But its always bothered me people who wont eat land animals but will eat sea critters.... they go through some of the worst treatment in catching and raising......

 

[ksinger]

I gave up red meat and poultry a few weeks ago because it makes me sad how animals are treated. Now I eat seafood and have been trying to eat more local produce. I'm hoping to eventually become a vegetarian.

ETA, I've also completely given up pop too. I feel so much better since changing my diet and people have told me I look better.

Sorry if I sounds kinda snarky here, but I have a marine bio degree... why did you give up beef and chicken but think its ok to eat seafood? Just for clarification here, I'm not a vegetarian, and I do eat seafood - I learned to a long time ago b/c sometimes in the field its the only thing fresh and readily available. But its always bothered me people who wont eat land animals but will eat sea critters.... they go through some of the worst treatment in catching and raising......

It's psychological of course, and that makes it about US, and assures that whatever attitude it is will be inconsistently applied. Not a criticism of anyone, merely an observation. (Believe me, I do NOT feel the same about the spider I stomp as I do about a dog, right?) The closer an animal is to "us", the greater the "oogey" factor in eating one and the more we seem to care about it. Fish aren't fluffy, cute, warm-blooded with big brown eyes akin to our own, and don't play fetch.

 

[dragonfly411]

The way our food is produced is just scary. Personally I rarely eat any meat that is not organic/grass fed, or something that we've hunted for ourselves. It's not just the treatment of the animals (which in itself is inhumane, disgusting and horrific) but also the way it is "processed". They hide so much from the general public. I don't eat fast food at all. The few restaurants I do eat meat at source local meats.

As for vegetables, I try VERY HARD to buy as much as I can at our local farmer's market. We are actually going to begin growing a lot more of our fruits or vegetables. I'm working on planning an "edible landscape" that will include tomatoes, several types of bell peppers, peppers, and chilis, cucumber, onions, broccoli, lettuces, collard greens, corn, mustard greens, squash, okra, beans and peas, orange, persimmon, pears, and I'm really hoping I can successfully get a dwarf apple going. We're also planting our entire front fence line in blueberry bushes. We have several local farms that we are allowed to go to to pick blackberries. All of our seafood is caught fresh and we get it from our closest coastlines. I've already started learning how to can and preserve with fruits and am going to experiment this coming year with pickles and my grandmother is teaching me to freeze vegetables properly.

I just am really freaked out by food and how it's produced. I read a write up the other day that mentioned that 80% of soy is genetically altered, 55% of corn, and there was something else... maybe tomatoes? Anyways... ew. They are now breeding pigs that have been genetically altered to produce more omega 3's. I feel like it's playing God, and it seriously freaks me out.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Food is very scary.

I noticed a few months ago, that the garlic (that comes pre-packaged in 4's) in my local grocery store is imported from China. So, I put the package back, picked up a loose head of garlic, tried my best to assume it was from somewhere other than China and went about my shopping. The other night, there was a grocer stocking produce, so I asked him if the loose garlic is also from China? To, which he responded yes, said "I know" and "I'm sorry."

Come to find out, China produces about 75% of the world's garlic supply. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/19/AR2007061900423.html I don't want my garlic from China (safety concerns, transportation, fuel waste, impact on local farmers, precedent for future imports of other produce). So, now, I will add this to my ever-growing list of food specifications. Sigh.

 

[dragonfly411]

Now I wonder how hard it would be to grow garlic....

 

[stone-cold11]

Interesting thread. I don't really adhere to much of what is advised here, but it is always interesting to hear a different point of view.

I don't want to lead this into a religious discussion, but for those of you interested in eating meat that has been slaughtered in a manner that minimises the animal's suffering, perhaps you could do some research on halaal meat? It should be available at your nearest Muslim butchery.

Edited because I'm nuts.

Kosher is the same as Halaal, that is what many of my muslim friends get when they cannot find a halaal store.

 

[stone-cold11]

Garlic is relatively easy as long as there is enough freezing time for the variety you selected. So select the correct type for your region.

 

[stone-cold11]

Well, I guess I am a butcher here.

Killed my first chicken when I was 10. Many other animals during survival training in the army.

Other things you guys should worry about is milk. How do you think that is produce? Need new borns and what do you think the new borns go to? If there is no meat industries, milk industries will collapes too.

 

[ImperfectGirl]

Meh, I dunno. Not to go religious, but God made animals and a food chain for a reason. Everyone has the right to use/eat animal products or not. For me personally, we only eat organic poultry and grass-fed beef. But I'm also super picky about our fish choices as well -- so many are super high in toxins. I think it is important to be aware, but a lot of people just don't care what they put into their bodies.

One of my biggest schticks lately is the overproduction of soy and corn products....blech. So awful for you.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[stone-cold11]

As for vegetables, I try VERY HARD to buy as much as I can at our local farmer's market. We are actually going to begin growing a lot more of our fruits or vegetables. I'm working on planning an "edible landscape" that will include tomatoes, several types of bell peppers, peppers, and chilis, cucumber, onions, broccoli, lettuces, collard greens, corn, mustard greens, squash, okra, beans and peas, orange, persimmon, pears, and I'm really hoping I can successfully get a dwarf apple going. We're also planting our entire front fence line in blueberry bushes. We have several local farms that we are allowed to go to to pick blackberries. All of our seafood is caught fresh and we get it from our closest coastlines. I've already started learning how to can and preserve with fruits and am going to experiment this coming year with pickles and my grandmother is teaching me to freeze vegetables properly.

I just am really freaked out by food and how it's produced. I read a write up the other day that mentioned that 80% of soy is genetically altered, 55% of corn, and there was something else... maybe tomatoes? Anyways... ew. They are now breeding pigs that have been genetically altered to produce more omega 3's. I feel like it's playing God, and it seriously freaks me out.

ya, trying to learn about edible landscape too. Just keeping a small plot in my rented property so cannot really try too many things. Animals are an important part in the cycle, keeping pest down and clearing out over-ripe produce. Back home, in Singapore, my family have a small plot of land, really small plot much smaller than typical backyard in the US, and we managed to get 70% of our veggies from the garden and rarely do we eat meat. With this knowledge, I hope to achieve 100% in veggie intake as well as eggs.

Genetic alteration is not bad, it increases the amount of food that can be produce, else the majority of the 3rd world will be starving now.

 

[dragonfly411]

Well, I guess I am a butcher here.

Killed my first chicken when I was 10. Many other animals during survival training in the army.

Other things you guys should worry about is milk. How do you think that is produce? Need new borns and what do you think the new borns go to? If there is no meat industries, milk industries will collapes too.

This is true, but if the public demanded more naturally kept meat markets, with less "processing" then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the meat markets. Generally too, calves are allowed to mature to either replace dairy cows later on, to produce more, or to become dinner.

 

[dragonfly411]

Stone - I would love to pick your brain about edible landscaping and also about the diets native to where you are from, if you would ever be interested. I've taken a great interest in Eastern diet and medicines, and am hoping to a) learn how to follow the basic diet standards which seem incredibly healthy and b) learn how to cook the meals in a traditional manner. I'm in school right now for nutrition and food sciences in hopes of going into research on diet, and how foods affect us.

 

[TooPatient]

Interesting thread. I don't really adhere to much of what is advised here, but it is always interesting to hear a different point of view.

I don't want to lead this into a religious discussion, but for those of you interested in eating meat that has been slaughtered in a manner that minimises the animal's suffering, perhaps you could do some research on halaal meat? It should be available at your nearest Muslim butchery.

Edited because I'm nuts.

Kosher is the same as Halaal, that is what many of my muslim friends get when they cannot find a halaal store.

Kosher and halaal are similar but not the same thing. (same idea though and VERY close to the same thing)

Some of the VERY strict requirements:

- animals must live in a comfortable way until death (room to move, etc)
- animals can't be slaughtered in a way that causes any more pain than is absolutely necessary (standard is a SUPER sharp knife carefully inspected to ensure that it is sharp enough, smooth, not the slightest knick and then the animals throat -- the artery AND windpipe -- is cut in ONE clean movement. There are strict guidelines about how deep the cut must be so that the animal dies pretty much instantly.)
- animals can't be killed in front of their parents/children
- can't have any stress leading up to death
- can't be sick

The requirements go on at great detail. Kosher (or halaal) done right means that the animals are happy, healthy, and comfortable and go from living to dead as near to instantly as you can get.

 

[Burberrygirl]

I gave up red meat and poultry a few weeks ago because it makes me sad how animals are treated. Now I eat seafood and have been trying to eat more local produce. I'm hoping to eventually become a vegetarian.

ETA, I've also completely given up pop too. I feel so much better since changing my diet and people have told me I look better.

Sorry if I sounds kinda snarky here, but I have a marine bio degree... why did you give up beef and chicken but think its ok to eat seafood? Just for clarification here, I'm not a vegetarian, and I do eat seafood - I learned to a long time ago b/c sometimes in the field its the only thing fresh and readily available. But its always bothered me people who wont eat land animals but will eat sea critters.... they go through some of the worst treatment in catching and raising......

Well, I would eventually like to become a vegetarian. I'm trying to change my eating habits and hopefully soon I won't eat seafood either.

I agree with you on their treatment, I'm also worried about the effect on the environment. I've found this site useful:

http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/SeafoodWatch/web/sfw_regional.aspx?region_id=0

BTW, I don't think your post sounded snarky. Sometimes I have a hard time expressing myself and a lot of times my posts don't convey my thoughts properly.

 

[dragonfly411]

It's interesting to see the different reasons why others give up certain foods. For me it is a matter of health and safety, for some it is the animals' well being. I think both come into play for me. I want to know that the meat I am eating was raised in a healthy manner, and that they got to live a true life. I also want to know that they aren't pumped full of hormones and chemicals, and processed until the meat no longer resembles meat.

 

[sctsbride09]

I agree with you 100% Dragonfly411. I personally have no problem with eating meat. Most animals eat meat, and I believe in the food chain, not to knock anyone who doesnt eat meat. I just dont want to think that the animal on my plate has been abused its whole life, living under horrible conditions. I would prefer if I could get all of our meat/fish from hunting/fishing, as I truly think this is the most humane way, really. I mean, there is certainly something to be said about cows/pigs/chickens that are raised free range, and treated properly, but in the end that really doesnt substitute for the life these animals are meant to have without our interference. Alas, I live in So Ca, where providing oneself with meat/fish in the way I wish I could is damn near impossible. Im working on that, though. Of course when you provide your own meat in this fashion, you do need to be prepared to do without meat on occasion, or be able to stretch with other proteins as well. Which I would be ok with, I love me some veggies,too. To me, if one has no problem eating meat, one should not have a problem doing the dirty work that comes along with it.

 

[dragonfly411]

I agree with you 100% Dragonfly411. I personally have no problem with eating meat. Most animals eat meat, and I believe in the food chain, not to knock anyone who doesnt eat meat. I just dont want to think that the animal on my plate has been abused its whole life, living under horrible conditions. I would prefer if I could get all of our meat/fish from hunting/fishing, as I truly think this is the most humane way, really. I mean, there is certainly something to be said about cows/pigs/chickens that are raised free range, and treated properly, but in the end that really doesnt substitute for the life these animals are meant to have without our interference. Alas, I live in So Ca, where providing oneself with meat/fish in the way I wish I could is damn near impossible. Im working on that, though. Of course when you provide your own meat in this fashion, you do need to be prepared to do without meat on occasion, or be able to stretch with other proteins as well. Which I would be ok with, I love me some veggies,too. To me, if one has no problem eating meat, one should not have a problem doing the dirty work that comes along with it.

Scts - This is what my family and I are currently working towards. We are having to learn the freezing tactics, the process of getting meats for different uses, and replacing proteins in some ways. It's quite interesting, and it's fun learning how to switch up recipes to work with the meats, or vice versa.

 

[Yimmers]

As for vegetables, I try VERY HARD to buy as much as I can at our local farmer's market. We are actually going to begin growing a lot more of our fruits or vegetables. I'm working on planning an "edible landscape" that will include tomatoes, several types of bell peppers, peppers, and chilis, cucumber, onions, broccoli, lettuces, collard greens, corn, mustard greens, squash, okra, beans and peas, orange, persimmon, pears, and I'm really hoping I can successfully get a dwarf apple going. We're also planting our entire front fence line in blueberry bushes. We have several local farms that we are allowed to go to to pick blackberries. All of our seafood is caught fresh and we get it from our closest coastlines. I've already started learning how to can and preserve with fruits and am going to experiment this coming year with pickles and my grandmother is teaching me to freeze vegetables properly.

I just am really freaked out by food and how it's produced. I read a write up the other day that mentioned that 80% of soy is genetically altered, 55% of corn, and there was something else... maybe tomatoes? Anyways... ew. They are now breeding pigs that have been genetically altered to produce more omega 3's. I feel like it's playing God, and it seriously freaks me out.

ya, trying to learn about edible landscape too. Just keeping a small plot in my rented property so cannot really try too many things. Animals are an important part in the cycle, keeping pest down and clearing out over-ripe produce. Back home, in Singapore, my family have a small plot of land, really small plot much smaller than typical backyard in the US, and we managed to get 70% of our veggies from the garden and rarely do we eat meat. With this knowledge, I hope to achieve 100% in veggie intake as well as eggs.

Genetic alteration is not bad, it increases the amount of food that can be produce, else the majority of the 3rd world will be starving now.

But one of the problems with genetic alteration is that a handful of companies control a lot of those seeds...they also happen to sell you the fertilizers and pesticides that go along with those seeds. It holds people hostage to mega corporations (Monsanto) who's main idea is really profit, not really about feeding people. I personally have a big problem with that.

Also keep in mind that a lot of oil goes into farming - to run our machines, transport the food, as well as provide the base for fertilizers/chemicals used on the crops. Because of that I've moved onto buying my foods at the local Farmer's market whenever I can. We weren't meant to have strawberries in the dead of winter, and just because Whole Foods sells them, I still won't buy them. DH and I have found the veggies and fruits to be so much flavorful at the Farmer's Market than the local supermarket because we're only buying what's in season. MIL has not realized this yet, and will still buy whatever is biggest and cheapest. Usually, that stuff tastes like crap.

I like meat, so I'm not giving it up. But I've moved to organic, or humanely treated grass fed as much as I can. I plan on joining a meat CSA next month when our budget allows it. DH likes to fish, and we eat what he catches. FIL was in the military, so MIL still buys meat at the commissary. Personally, that really scares the hell out of me because I know we don't give them "prime" meat cuts...hell, our schools don't give our kids "prime" cuts either...

It is so hard these days because you have to read the ingredients of everything. And, everything these days has corn syrup. I was eating some Korean rice cakes, and lo and behold, corn syrup. It's an atrocity.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am having source amnesia, but either Jamie Oliver or the yelly chef from Kitchen nightmares did a really interesting documentary focusing on poultry in the UK and trying to convince people to switch to humanely grown and slaughtered poultry. Did anyone see it?

 

[stone-cold11]

But one of the problems with genetic alteration is that a handful of companies control a lot of those seeds...they also happen to sell you the fertilizers and pesticides that go along with those seeds. It holds people hostage to mega corporations (Monsanto) who's main idea is really profit, not really about feeding people. I personally have a big problem with that.

Also keep in mind that a lot of oil goes into farming - to run our machines, transport the food, as well as provide the base for fertilizers/chemicals used on the crops.

What company is not to make profit, after the amount they have invested in the research? Whatever the intentions, the end results is it feeds the people. Rich people can have a choice in what food they choose to eat, the poor just go with what they can afford. You takes these away from them and give them traditional seeds, tools, the farmers probably will be able to survive on what they are growing but their countrymen will starve as there will not be enough to feed to city-dwellers. As it stands now, without improvement in yields due to these 'evils', many will starve even die.

Remember the food panic 2 years ago in Asia?

This is true, but if the public demanded more naturally kept meat markets, with less "processing" then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the meat markets. Generally too, calves are allowed to mature to either replace dairy cows later on, to produce more, or to become dinner.

Ya but I am talking about those people that do not want to kill animals, eat meat and still drink milk.

Young calves meat are veal. That's how most of the diary calves are taken care off.

Most of my old knowledge on gardening are based on tropics, so probably not transferable to the US, except maybe Hawaii and parts of Florida and California.

I would like give suggestion/help based on knowledge from reading and see how it goes for you?

I prefer perennial type garden.
I think asparagus, herbs and a sunflower/bee garden is missing in your list? And chickens for the eggs?

 

[dragonfly411]

Stone - I'm in FL, north central. I haven't fully decided how we'll do our gardens. I know I'd like for us to have some permanent residents like blue berries, oranges, grapefruit (if we can get it to grow) and persimmon. I don't know of any cherry or apple variants that would survive here. I'm not sure if pineapple would? We do have a pear tree that flourishes and gives great fruit. Vegetable wise, we've had tomatoes and some small pepper varieties with success, but I'm still researching what I should try here. I'm having to supplement the soil with manure and fertilizer because we are hilltop and quite dry.

I guess we might need to start a new edible landscaping thread lol.

 

[Steel]

I am having source amnesia, but either Jamie Oliver or the yelly chef from Kitchen nightmares did a really interesting documentary focusing on poultry in the UK and trying to convince people to switch to humanely grown and slaughtered poultry. Did anyone see it?

I don't remember if he did one but there is another man Hugh Fernley Whittingstall who is peddling his goods through a series called River Cottage. He has much publicised the plight of the battery hen (and creating a name for himself) including a very public challenge to the supermarkets which provide low cost battery hens.

 

[stone-cold11]

Stone - I'm in FL, north central. I haven't fully decided how we'll do our gardens. I know I'd like for us to have some permanent residents like blue berries, oranges, grapefruit (if we can get it to grow) and persimmon. I don't know of any cherry or apple variants that would survive here. I'm not sure if pineapple would? We do have a pear tree that flourishes and gives great fruit. Vegetable wise, we've had tomatoes and some small pepper varieties with success, but I'm still researching what I should try here. I'm having to supplement the soil with manure and fertilizer because we are hilltop and quite dry.

I guess we might need to start a new edible landscaping thread lol.

Do you get freezing temperature down there? I would think pineapples would survive unless it goes into hard freeze. I am guessing you already have a compost in place. How big of an area do you have? Enough for a water feature or some swale?

Maybe we should start one but not sure who else will participate.

 

[dragonfly411]

Please see the thread. I know Steal is working towards self sufficiency so hopefully we'll get a little group.

 

[Yimmers]

But one of the problems with genetic alteration is that a handful of companies control a lot of those seeds...they also happen to sell you the fertilizers and pesticides that go along with those seeds. It holds people hostage to mega corporations (Monsanto) who's main idea is really profit, not really about feeding people. I personally have a big problem with that.

Also keep in mind that a lot of oil goes into farming - to run our machines, transport the food, as well as provide the base for fertilizers/chemicals used on the crops.

What company is not to make profit, after the amount they have invested in the research? Whatever the intentions, the end results is it feeds the people. Rich people can have a choice in what food they choose to eat, the poor just go with what they can afford. You takes these away from them and give them traditional seeds, tools, the farmers probably will be able to survive on what they are growing but their countrymen will starve as there will not be enough to feed to city-dwellers. As it stands now, without improvement in yields due to these 'evils', many will starve even die.

Remember the food panic 2 years ago in Asia?

The problem is that these genetically altered seeds are dependent on the fertilizers that the big companies sell; they are also not always designed to withstand the local environments that local seeds have adapted to. They have forced farmers to go into debt to grow these high yield crops, which are more vulnerable to local pests and diseases, which forces them to buy and use more chemical pesticides. They force countries to take out huge loans, which they often can't pay back.

The idea of using seeds designed for high yield aren't always ecologically or environmentally friendly. We've let big corporations decide what we should eat instead of having smaller, local farms raise plants and animals which have naturally grown in our local environments for years.

 

[Amandine]

I try not to think about this too much. I try to buy locally as much as I can--was able to find several local meat sources at a nearby farmer's market. I just wish I could afford to use them more often! I have been trying to minimize using meat to an extent in our meals, or at least making it less of a focus. But, oh, when I think about how so many of those animals live...I avoided Fast Food Nation and other documentaries like this...am pretty sure watching them would make me a vegetarian, which I think my husband wouldn't be overly thrilled with, as I do most of the cooking. I am already trying to participate in meatless Mondays, perhaps can add more later!

 

[iLander]

In your lifetime, you will eat 60,000 pounds of food.

That is the weight of 6 elephants.

i eat only organic meat because of the antibiotics and growth hormones used in raising meat. Most cows live in tiny pens, standing in their own manure and filth. The are also forced to eat corn, which a cow CANNOT naturally digest. They can only digest grass. The corn and filth make them sick, so they are loaded up with antibiotics.

I have 2 theories that spin out of this (yes, they could be crazy and baseless but you never know . . . ):

1) I think, that because humans are digesting all these antibiotics, we are developing more antibiotic resistant germs.

2) I think all these growth hormones are contributing to childhood/adult obesity.

We have also switched to organic milk, and we have actually lost weight! I took my DD off of the school milk (which is the worst!) and she has slimmed down, too. Do you really want to give your child milk bought from the lowest bidder? You can buy little cartons of organic.

You want to be scared by food? Here's a TRUE STORY:
My DH had some temporary jobs as a teen. One of his jobs was at a dairy, to cut open the cartons of milk that were returned from grocery stores. This expired milk was poured into a vat, repasteurized (boiled) and resold to the stores.

They are not allowed to do this with organic milk, which is why it lasts so much longer before it spoils. If you compare the expiration date on organic versus regular milk, there is a huge difference.

We eat very little meat (even if it is organic), 1 1/2 pounds will last us a week. We also eat farm-raised fish and shrimp (USA only, thank you) because I don't like to think of all those nets dragging in dolphins and other innocent creatures, upsetting the balance of sea life.