Spinel or sapphire for e-ring?

[Laila619]

Hi!

I'm pretty new to colored stones, but love to drool over all the beauties. In terms of durability, sparkle, cost, etc. which do you think is generally better for an e-ring stone, sapphire or spinel? Which would you choose? Thank you very much!

 

[airplay355]

My fiance to be and I chose a spinel over sapphire and diamond for a few reasons.

1) I'm not too enthused with the whole diamond culture. All the advertising, pressure, ridiculous prices, destruction of the earth...blah blah blah the list goes on. Diamonds were out, even the lab created diamonds since she wanted a from the earth stone. Too bad, because I love some of the lab created diamonds (not simulants, the REAL diamonds).

2) Sapphires seem to be the next most popular stone, especially after the royal wedding. I thought I wanted to get her a sapphire at first but decided not to because I didn't like that I had to wade through the treated stones to find a good one and again, prices can be quite astronomical for untreated stones of any decent size. Especially when the color is nice.

3) Spinels were suggested by the great folks here (I had never heard of them) and are great alternative to sapphires. At first glance, it's even easy to mistake them for sapphires. That's not to say I wish the spinel I got was a sapphire, I just mean that they aren't strange enough to draw attention to themselves in a way that would require an explanation to every person who noticed the ring. The spinel I got sparkles just as much as any sapphire I've seen hanging out in the B&M shops around here. When I bring it in, they usually ask if it's a sapphire and are then very surprised to hear I've brought in a spinel (I was shopping for settings). I've gotten nothing but compliments.

4) Spinels are way, way WAY cheaper than diamonds and sapphires. There are plenty of expensive spinels but there are also plenty of inexpensive ones. We're young and on a budget so a spinel fit the budget well.

5) Spinels don't show color zoning like sapphires can and I don't think they are treated as often as sapphires, if at all (someone like Chrono will probably know the real answer to this). This just made the whole finding a stone process easier and less headache free. I didn't have to worry about finding a stone with great color only to find out it was treated.

I really can't think of any reason not to choose a spinel other than wanting the perfect cornflower blue (something I haven't seen too often in spinels) or just the bragging rights. No one seems to know what a spinel is but everyone knows what a diamond is. Even if you have a crappy included diamond, it's still a diamond and for some people that's all that matters.

It also helped that the GF wanted pink and spinels just happen to come in all sorts of very nice pink colors. So, I got her the color she liked, shape she liked, in a stone that can withstand e-ring use for a price I could easily afford ($450).

Here's a picture..it's an eye clean 2.18ct Sri Lankan spinel.

 

[Laila619]

Wow, that stone's so pretty, airplay!

Thanks for your informative and helpful post!

 

[airplay355]

Thank you! And, you're welcome

 

[Laila619]

What kind of setting do you think you'll get?

 

[airplay355]

She wanted a halo, so I went in search of one I liked. The stores around town wanted $6k + so I turned to ERD and found the perfect setting for half of what local places wanted. I sent the stone to NYC yesterday morning (it's 2am here ) and it's being made now

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/claire-cathedral-micro-pave-halo-engagement-ring-bpid-118-19.html

 

[Laila619]

She wanted a halo, so I went in search of one I liked. The stores around town wanted $6k + so I turned to ERD and found the perfect setting for half of what local places wanted. I sent the stone to NYC yesterday morning (it's 2am here ) and it's being made now

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/claire-cathedral-micro-pave-halo-engagement-ring-bpid-118-19.html

Sweet, that'll look fabulous! ERD is great. Best of luck w/ the proposal!

 

[airplay355]

Thanks!

Are you e-ring shopping or was this just a general question?

 

[Laila619]

I have a small diamond for an e-ring already, but I'd like to get myself a big honkin' sapphire or spinel for a second e-ring, a 5 year anniversary 'upgrade' if you will. I too will probably set it in a halo similar to the one you selected.

 

[Lee Little]

Yes, Spinels are not often treated as they do not respond well to most treatments, by the odds, Spinels are much more likely to be untreated compared to Sapphire. A big reason is that Sapphire, (Corundum) is very tough and can take an enormous amount of abuses that often treatments dish out. On the plus side for Sapphire is the double refraction which can lead to more sparkle IF the cut is good. Spinel, however, can be very dazzling. Sapphire will be harder, a 9 over an 8, and will be tougher as well. The Spinel is generally way under-priced since people never heard of them and for the opposite reason, Sapphire is often over-priced due to its popularity. Best regards, Lee

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

I love spinels but the really nice ones are getting very pricey. I am looking at heated sapphires right now, versus spinels for my next gemstone purchase.

 

[Rosebloom]

Laila - there is some fabulous eye candy of both species here:

Gemfix.com

Enjoy!

 

[chrono]

Laila,

As a diamond person coming over to the coloured side, I'll be upfront with you about what to expect. Diamonds are all about cut, then the other Cs. Coloured gemstones are all about colour, then the other Cs. This means that often you'll have to sacrifice on more than 1 of the Cs and this can have a big impact unless you have time and patience on your side.

Colour - There is a huge variation of blue sapphires. I presume you are considering blue but if not, the general advice still holds true. Slight nuances of colour can mean $$$. A top blue (slightly violetish blue of medium dark tone and vivid saturation) is the most expensive. Depending on the size and treatment, pricing can be very high. If this is not YOUR colour, you are in luck because pricing can come down a lot and it makes the search much easier. Sapphires generally has the best blues but spinels can come close. Spinels that look like sapphires are rare and very expensive although will be priced less than a comparable untreated blue sapphire. Blue spinels are often plagued by a green modifier or gray tones (not well saturated). If you like reds and pinks, spinel wins hands down. They have a huge range of pinks and reds which can be found more easily, untreated and less expensively than sapphires. Pure red, as with all gem types, will be a challenge.

Clarity - plenty of eye clean stones can be found. The standard is eye clean, not loupe clean.

Carat - I don't know the size you are looking for but the search becomes a challenge once you go up into the 3 ct range. Both spinel and sapphires are denser than diamonds they face up smaller. For example, a 1 ct round diamond is 6.5 mm whilst a 1 ct round sapphire is 6 mm.

Cut - This is where it becomes problematic for those fresh from the diamond world. Cut is not king here and you'll find tons of wonky cut stone that still sell for a lot if the colour is top. Many diamond minded people would rather sacrifice colour in order to get a perfectly cut coloured stone. I say you can have both but you must be patient. Very patient if your other requirements are tough. There are lapidaries who do precision cutting that will give you the best of both worlds - precision cutting and good colour. There are also some that do precision cutting on not so nicely coloured stones. The other way also holds true, where there can be very well cut but not precision cut stones with excellent colour. You need to decide which camp you fall into. Are you willing to sacrifice colour for cut, do you want it all or will a really good cut suffice so that the colour is the best you can get?

Treatment - almost all sapphires are treated. Some more heavily than others and it can be a mine field. In general, plain heat is accepted. Clarity enhancement and heating with added mineral (diffusion) is frown upon. Finding an untreated sapphire of top colour can be a challenge and taxing to the wallet. Spinels are almost always untreated. People are playing around with heat and oiling but so far, I haven't seen many of these to warrant extreme caution.

LD started this primer which is an excellent start:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

 

[Laila619]

Hi Chrono,

Thanks! I actually think I might be interested in a yellow sapphire, instead of blue. I know the NSC is frowned upon here and there are some bad reviews, but just for fun I went browsing on their site. This stone caught my eye, what do you think of the color? Is finding a good yellow sapphire going to be very difficult? Thank you!

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Yellow/Cushion/stoneid=Y2841

 

[Laila619]

Laila - there is some fabulous eye candy of both species here:

Gemfix.com

Enjoy!

Thank you Rosebloom!

 

[chrono]

Believe it or not, yellow is a difficult one to buy if you are particular about a shade of yellow. Tons of diffused yellow sapphires abound. Many are brownish yellow, affectionately termed as golden yellow sapphire. If you don't mind a green modifier, your search will be much easier. The NSC sapphire linked has a slight green component.

 

[Laila619]

Thank you Chrono. I'm reading about diffused yellow sapphires now. It seems like it's very, very common. Is a diffused stone "bad?" From what I understand, it's not necessarily bad, but these stones should sell for much less than their natural counterparts.

 

[Laila619]

Yes, Spinels are not often treated as they do not respond well to most treatments, by the odds, Spinels are much more likely to be untreated compared to Sapphire. A big reason is that Sapphire, (Corundum) is very tough and can take an enormous amount of abuses that often treatments dish out. On the plus side for Sapphire is the double refraction which can lead to more sparkle IF the cut is good. Spinel, however, can be very dazzling. Sapphire will be harder, a 9 over an 8, and will be tougher as well. The Spinel is generally way under-priced since people never heard of them and for the opposite reason, Sapphire is often over-priced due to its popularity. Best regards, Lee

Thank you, Lee!

 

[chrono]

Depends on what one considers as bad. Simply put, it is a dye that permeates the entire stone. To me, that's not a natural process but it is still considered a natural sapphire (just heavily treated). It is an invasive treatment where the stone is heated until almost melting point then additional minerals are added (depends on what colour you want it to be).

The good thing is that the colours are fabulous (bright and vivid), the treatment is stable and permanent, and should the stone get chipped or damaged, because the colouration is even, you won't see a cruddy colour underneath. Pricing is also extremely low compared to an untreated sapphire of like colouration. The original sapphire is unattractive to begin with but diffusion makes it gorgeous and affordable.

Collectors would not touch it with a 10 foot pole though. Most gem savvy people steer clear of it as well.

 

[Laila619]

I love spinels but the really nice ones are getting very pricey. I am looking at heated sapphires right now, versus spinels for my next gemstone purchase.

Thanks! I'd love to see pictures of your next purchase.

 

[Laila619]

Depends on what one considers as bad. Simply put, it is a dye that permeates the entire stone. To me, that's not a natural process but it is still considered a natural sapphire (just heavily treated). It is an invasive treatment where the stone is heated until almost melting point then additional minerals are added (depends on what colour you want it to be).

The good thing is that the colours are fabulous (bright and vivid), the treatment is stable and permanent, and should the stone get chipped or damaged, because the colouration is even, you won't see a cruddy colour underneath. Pricing is also extremely low compared to an untreated sapphire of like colouration. The original sapphire is unattractive to begin with but diffusion makes it gorgeous and affordable.

Collectors would not touch it with a 10 foot pole though. Most gem savvy people steer clear of it as well.

Huh, interesting. But if it's permanent and it really improves the color, seems like it can only be a good thing.

 

[minousbijoux]

Corundum conundrum has been looking for a yellow sapphire for quite a while - perhaps he will weigh in with his thoughts and experiences at some point.

But one point of clarification kind of in response to Lee: I thought spinels had a higher RI than sapphires, which explains why they often shoot sparks of different color? I know that's different than your point about corundum being double refractive, but doesn't spinel get some credit for its own kind of scintillation/dispersion?

 

[chrono]

But if it's permanent and it really improves the color, seems like it can only be a good thing.

The treatment is the most invasive possible. It is a dye job. The process changes the stone greatly internally. Many do not view this as a true sapphire anymore due to the process it underwent. This is WAY beyond heating.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/[/URL]

 

[minousbijoux]

Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but if what you are concerned with is the cost of the stone, its clarity and its color, diffusion can be seen as a good thing - you can find vivid colored stones that are actually affordable to mortals. But, if you are a collector, or are concerned about purity (some people want stones "untouched" by man), then they would not be acceptable at all.

At the end of the day, though, the only one who'd know (unless you sent it to a lab with the specialized equipment) would be you.

 

[chrono]

Pictures of sapphire rough before and after diffusion. If it doesn't bother you that the sapphire looks like gravel originally, then diffusion could be the right choice for you.

 

[Lee Little]

Sapphire still wins by a hair in RI, Spinel 1.72, Sapphire about 1.765. Sorry to be the bearer. Lee

 

[minousbijoux]

Then what causes spinel to have the splinters of different color flashes? Maybe its my imagination, but my spinels sure seem to have greater sparkler and dispersion than my sapphires?

 

[chrono]

Is it due to the lustre?

 

[Lee Little]

Depends on what one considers as bad. Simply put, it is a dye that permeates the entire stone. To me, that's not a natural process but it is still considered a natural sapphire (just heavily treated). It is an invasive treatment where the stone is heated until almost melting point then additional minerals are added (depends on what colour you want it to be).

The good thing is that the colours are fabulous (bright and vivid), the treatment is stable and permanent, and should the stone get chipped or damaged, because the colouration is even, you won't see a cruddy colour underneath. Pricing is also extremely low compared to an untreated sapphire of like colouration. The original sapphire is unattractive to begin with but diffusion makes it gorgeous and affordable.

Collectors would not touch it with a 10 foot pole though. Most gem savvy people steer clear of it as well.

Hi Chrono,
I really do respect your information but just cannot accept this 'simplification'. Calling the heating of Corundum with a Beryl product being a like a dye is just not correct. When Corundum is heated with a Beryl product the molecular lattice expands and Berillium is released at the same time. This is a lighter element that enters the gaps in the temporarily expanded molecular structure and attaches itself inside the lattice permanently and irreversibly. This process can occur in nature to some extent so some unheated Sapphires do test positive for Berillium, just not as high a content. In commercial heating this process occurred accidentally for many years as often there was Chrysoberyl in with the Corundum rough. The heaters finally figured out the mystery and started to do it intentionally thus the treatment was born.
Dye jobs are simple and are far from being on a molecular level. Dyes can often fade, only color inside voids like cracks, and could not likely ever occur naturally to any degree with the chemical agents used.
Collectors do buy gems heated with a Beryl product as they are often the best looking gem available and they do not change over time thus the value remains stable as well. I was in Chanthaburi with a big wad to spend on a Blue Sapphire with a client. It was to be purely for show on his wife. The most stunning one offered to us was Be treated but our wad was not big enough. We had to settle for a much less attractive unheated gem even though this collector was scrambling to try to buy the prettier one. I had to steer him to buy the unheated gem or he would have gone home empty handed but honestly, it was not easy as the treated stone looked so much better. The seller knew she had a killer gem and would not budge. Best regards, Lee

 

[Lee Little]

Then what causes spinel to have the splinters of different color flashes? Maybe its my imagination, but my spinels sure seem to have greater sparkler and dispersion than my sapphires?

Clarity on Spinels is usually better than Sapphire, that factor alone could explain it. Second would be the cut. Best regards, Lee