Strange WhiteFlash Experience

[JohnQuixote]

I have been asked to make comments in this thread.

Regarding resizing, nothing is free. When a company offers free sizing for life they build that into the initial cost of the ring. We could charge an extra $50 or $100 for each diamond or for every jewelry project we do, but not everyone will exercise a resize option - so we do not build it into our pricing structure. We do build in other benefits (the letter of verification for instance) that we hope are useful.

What’s included over the life of a purchase varies by company. Shoppers should investigate the complete array of purchase benefits offered and decide what’s right for them.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Mike, we really appreciate the calm and dignified way you presented your perception of your experience with us. As it stands, we have different takes on what happened, but we appreciate you addressing issues reasonably and not becoming personal. We do wish you had been available to be there that day.

Issues like this can serve as a learning opportunity. Many people assume sizing is done by removing a section of the ring and squeezing the remaining two together by hand. If that were the process it would result in uneven or oval shaping. This is why jewelers size on a mandrel. Those are the heavy round rods you may have seen in jewelry stores with markings to show what size a ring is. It looks like a pointy round cone. The smithing and shaping (resizing) actually takes place on the mandrel to ensure the finished product is round.

Whenever we release a piece, either for the first time or for a modification, we take time and date-stamped photos. Not only does this help us, it protects the customer. Just as people take photographs of their house contents for insurance purposes in case of theft, fire or break-in, we do that with our products. If we didn''t make this part of our routine it could cost us millions of dollars in losses.

This experience shows that it''s important for us to give explanations of our processes and why they exist. Maybe some of the distress in this transaction could have been avoided with this information. That is our job – to educate – and we will treat this as a learning experience. Resizing is an everyday, familiar thing to us. Most customers who call in want perfection, so we work very hard to send things out that will stand up to scrutiny - such as posting magnified photos for thousands of views on the internet. We tend to forget that clients are not familiar with how things are done, and I hope this info helps.

Mike, we want you to be happy. Being human, we know that everything doesn''t run as perfectly as we''d like it to, but our ultimate goal is to leave each customer satisfied. That is why we waived the charge. We have no doubt you will find a lovely counterpart for her e-ring, and hope you can both continue to take joy in the piece we created for you.

If there is something else we can do going forward to leave you as a satisfied customer please contact me and let me know.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/2/2006 5:59:38 PM
Author: sevens one

Date: 2/2/2006 5:56:53 PM
Author: noobie

Date: 2/2/2006 3:30:35 PM
Author: Rod
Sorry, but I don't think a jeweler should charge for a resize within a reasonable time period. It's likely that even knowing someone's exact finger size, some settings fit better than others. A resizing for a high quality ($$$) piece should be free. Not for life of course. A jeweler can't be held resposible for someone eating too many 'Twinkies' and gaining too much weight, or for someone becoming more healthy and losing a lot of weight. But, within a few months of getting a ring and it just doesn't fit correctly, there should be no charge for resizing.

Just my .02 worth........

Quest offers free lifetime sizing and cleaning and tightening of any stones. If you bring it in for inspections, they'll even replace any lost sidestones less than 0.25C. Pretty Cool

exactly my point. That's why the $80 charge was a question for me.

This discussion really brings home an important point: when selecting and comparing vendors, it's so important to look at more than just the price of the piece. It's important to compare the features of each vendor's policies and determine which are most valued to you.

For example:
* Quest offers free sizing for a lifetime; James Allen and WF don't.
* WF offers a 2% bank wire discount; James Allen's wire discount is 1.5%. I don't see provisions for any discount within Quest's policies. Whiteflash offers a PS discount; James Allen and Quest don't.
* James Allen offers 30-day return window (and specifies that no other jeweler can have worked on the piece); Quest offers 14-days; Whiteflash offers 10.
* WF offers free letter of verification; James Allen and Quest don't.
* Quests offers free setting IF you buy the diamond *and* the setting from them. I think WF does, too. James Allen's policies don't provide any detail, so they may or may not charge for setting stones.
* WF offers a lifetime trade-up policy offering 100% of stone's purchase price. James Allen's policies limit the upgrade window to within five years of initial purchase.....and then only allows 80% of the purchase price unless it's a signature collection stone (those are 100% of purchase price). Quest's policies don't note any trade-up or upgrade policies, so I'm guessing they don't offer it at all---what you get is what you get.
* All three offer free overnight shipping.

Just as people have different preferences for color or clarity, people will different prefer different features that a company offers.

While it's easy to think that things are "free", keep in mind that these "bennies" have been built into the price of the product. They aren't really free....so it's what you get for the price that matters.

If something becomes so standard that virtually everyone else offers it (like they all offer free overnight shipping), then I could see dinging a vendor who charged for something a *majority* of others don't...but I don't really think that's the case from many of the policy features above. Pick a vendor who includes in their selling price the things you most care about.

 

[Rod]

Good advice Al......pick the items that matter to you most and go for them.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/3/2006 1:49:19 PM
Author: Rod
Good advice Al......pick the items that matter to you most and go for them.

Yep....and on an added note, if there's something important to you, ask your vendor about it during the sales process. Some policies are more negotiable than others. Waiting until after the deal is done or assuming something and finding out later it's not as you thought can only lead to problems and tainting one's experience.

I present a standard contract to my clients in my line of work. Some of the language in the contract is absolutely negotiable; other language in it is absolutely non-negotiable. However.....none of it's negotiable until a clients asks me for concessions, and then I usually get something for those concessions (quicker sign date, etc.)

 

[FunkyMike]

Hi JohnQuixote, welcome to the discussion. Its a beautiful day in north Texas today (high''s in the mid-60''s), clear, sunny, and I intend to enjoy it!

...so just a few quick fact and I''m out the door.

1) Neither my fiance nor myself have ever seen any date-stamped photos.
2) I was never told about a policy of dating photos in our multiple conversations about this issue.
3) When my fiance went to pick up the ring, WhiteFlash looked for these date-stamped photos (for quite a while) but were unable to find them.
4) No matter what technique is used for resizing, oval rings are sometimes produced either purposefully or by mistake. This is especially true in cases where there are diamonds along the band such as the ring in question. A search on these boards will show examples of this, here and here.

Peace.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/1/2006 10:24:01 PM
Author:FunkyMike






I saw my fiancé a few weeks later and noticed the resized ring was oval shaped. She said it was like that when she got it back from being resized. The band has 3 pointers 3/4 of the way around, so we thought maybe they had to resize it that way, or perhaps it was going to be a lot more expensive to resize it into a perfect circle because of the side diamonds. It wasn''t a huge deal to us either way because you couldn''t tell when it was on her finger and the ring was now a perfect fit.

I guess i''m kinda confused as to why your fiance waited weeks to say something. I am a very picky ring person and something like that would drive me nuts. I would have walked right back into WF after picking it up and complained. A few weeks later leaves a lot of room for questioning as to who did actually do the damage. And if she believed they did it, why would she have agreed to the wedding band and taken her ring back and even agree to pay to have them fix it? A lot of things don''t quite add up to me but hopefully others reading this thread can learn if they notice a flaw to have it corrected immediately and not settle for poor workmanship if that was the case.

 

[indecisive]

That is true that if you see something wrong you should get it addressed right away, however, most people are not as picky about little details about rings as most people here on PS. There are some threads where people are talking about minor differences in prongs, which I can barely see in magnified pictures, as if it is the end of the world. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it but there are a lot of people that aren''t like that, so you can''t put your standards into another person''s story. I think what upset Mike most was that they were treated as if they were completely wrong and to blame and they weren''t given the proof that WF said they had. I think the OP and WF are being very professional about the situation.

 

[mrssalvo]

I never said the OP and Wf weren't being professional. I believe they both are. I also agree that most people are not as picky about jewelry and I am but it obviously bothered her enough to say she noticed it right after she picked it up and never said anything to WF or her fiance, because he said he didn't see her for or know about it for a few weeks. My point is, if WF caused the damage and she said something right away i'm 100% sure WF would have fixed the problem. The fact that she waited or it didn't really bother her until weeks later leaves room for questions. I'm not trying to impose my standards on anyone, but by expressing what my standards are may help someone to realize they don't have to accept something they are not 100% happy with

I understand where Mike is coming from but letting it go for weeks hurts his case.

 

[belle]

Date: 2/4/2006 3:14:26 PM
Author: mrssalvo
I never said the OP and Wf weren''t being professional. I believe they both are. I also agree that most people are not as picky about jewelry and I am but it obviously bothered her enough to say she noticed it right after she picked it up and never said anything to WF or her fiance, because he said he didn''t see her for or know about it for a few weeks. My point is, if WF caused the damage and she said something right away i''m 100% sure WF would have fixed the problem. The fact that she waited or it didn''t really bother her until weeks later leaves room for questions. I''m not trying to impose my standards on anyone, but by expressing what my standards are may help someone to realize they don''t have to accept something they are not 100% happy with

that is exactly the point. well said mrssalvo.

 

[Lorelei]

I agree too. Best if anything is amiss with such an expensive purchase to alert the vendor asap.

 

[indecisive]

No, that is a very good point and I definitely agree with it. And I really wasn''t trying to say that you were saying they weren''t being professional. All I wanted to point out was that some people might not notice things as quickly as lots of PSers. I agree with your point, but sometimes you just don''t notice things right away.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/4/2006 3:54:28 PM
Author: indecisive
No, that is a very good point and I definitely agree with it. And I really wasn''t trying to say that you were saying they weren''t being professional. All I wanted to point out was that some people might not notice things as quickly as lots of PSers. I agree with your point, but sometimes you just don''t notice things right away.

I agree that some folks might not notice.....but in this situation, his fiance said she did notice right away, but said nothing about it until Mike noticed it a few weeks later. When he commented on it, she replied that she had noticed it the same day she picked it up.

I think that''s what Mrs. Salvo''s saying....that she''s confused why one wouldn''t mention it when he/she discovers the problem instead of a few weeks after he or she notices it.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 2/4/2006 4:22:44 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 2/4/2006 3:54:28 PM
Author: indecisive
No, that is a very good point and I definitely agree with it. And I really wasn''t trying to say that you were saying they weren''t being professional. All I wanted to point out was that some people might not notice things as quickly as lots of PSers. I agree with your point, but sometimes you just don''t notice things right away.

I agree that some folks might not notice.....but in this situation, his fiance said she did notice right away, but said nothing about it until Mike noticed it a few weeks later. When he commented on it, she replied that she had noticed it the same day she picked it up.

I think that''s what Mrs. Salvo''s saying....that she''s confused why one wouldn''t mention it when he/she discovers the problem instead of a few weeks after he or she notices it.

Yes, she said she "noticed" the ring being oval shaped when she picked it up. Mike says he "noticed" it when he saw the ring a few weeks later. I don''t think either of them considered it a "problem". It wasn''t noticable on her finger and it certainly fit her better. It only became a "problem" when it was given back to Whiteflash to make the accompanying wedding ring and Whiteflash pointed out that it was "defective" and that they would "fix it" for "$100". That''s the "problem".

 

[XChick03]

Yeah, I pretty much got the same impression Jennifer did.

If I was in her position, and noticed as soon as I picked it up, I probably would''ve said something, but some people are a lot more softspoken than I am and not nearly as picky.

There''s a lot of holes in the whole thing and I can understand why the people at WF believed they weren''t at fault, but I think it was a little much to accuse her of bending the ring herself. I think both parties were very professional, though the situation could''ve been handled a little better, IMO.

 

[portoar]

I never received time and date stamped photos of the jewelry I bought from WF. I eventually received undated photos of the diamonds, but not the finished product.

 

[FunkyMike]

One last post then I''ll stop and let this one die.

mrsslavo, I agree with you 100%. I think that if we would have gone to WhiteFlash right after the resizing, then they probably would have fixed it for free, but that really wasn''t my point. We were willing to concede the extra $100 because we waited. That was the price we had to pay for not bringing it to them immediately and, although an unfortunate experience, I can understand why WhiteFlash didn''t want to fix it for free.

Karissa (my fiancé’s name in case anyone was wondering, she''s the pretty girl in my avatar

) never really cared about having it "fixed" much at all. After Bob told me it shouldn''t be that way, I went ahead and told them to do the work. She''s a soft-spoken girl who''s usually easy to please, and she thought it looked and fit fine. Plus, it really looked like it was done that way on purpose. I''m no jeweler, but with the thin prongs on the head and the diamonds along the fairly thin band, I think it’s possible that whoever did the original resizing may have purposely made it slightly oval in order to preserve the integrity of the ring, especially if he/she was in a hurry.

Finally, my point is I believe there is no way those pictures could have been taken when WhiteFlash claimed they were taken. I''m sure WhiteFlash thinks differently, but that was the one thing we could not get over. If WhiteFlash would''ve just said "I''m sorry Mike, but the resize was done two months ago and we can''t fix it for free" we would have been a little frustrated but could understood their position and they would''ve kept our business. Sending over pictures that basically called my fiancé a liar was the deal-breaker, even if that wasn''t their intent.

Anyways, like I said before, the e-ring looks great and WhiteFlash ended up not charging us for the work when Karissa went to go pick it up (after they couldn''t find the date-stamped pictures they said they had). I''m sure my experience with them is not the norm.

 

[fire&ice]

One last point, I don''t fault your fiancee one bit for not saying anything about the oval shape. If she is younger & more soft spoken, she may have thought it an ungrateful thing to bring it up coupled with the inexperience to know it wasn''t the way it was supposed to be. I hope you have success finding a great wedding band!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/7/2006 1:29:40 PM
Author: fire&ice
One last point, I don''t fault your fiancee one bit for not saying anything about the oval shape. If she is younger & more soft spoken, she may have thought it an ungrateful thing to bring it up coupled with the inexperience to know it wasn''t the way it was supposed to be. I hope you have success finding a great wedding band!

Mike, I want to apologize if you felt I was faulting your fiancee. I''m wasn''t trying to blame anyone and only try to figure out and see both sides. I too have been in situaltions where my ignorance has cost me $ and I''ve had to chalk it up to life experience tax

. I''m also sorry that WF made her and you feel bad and don''t blame you for wanting to do business elsewhere. I too hope you have great success finding a wedding band.

 

[devientdrow]

FunkyMike,
Like you said I think this topic is pretty beat! Everything that can be said has....now what i''m interested in is hand shots of that lovely ring!!! Any coming anytime soon???

 

[SquareCut]

One thing is for sure-White Flash made you a Georgous ring! But I''m sure your girlfriend was correct- if she bent the ring it would look bent not Oval shaped. I don''t know, but it seems a platinum ring shouldn''t bend with a few weeks of normal wear unless it''s defective in the first place. Regarding resizing shortly after purchase, I was not charged when I needed resizing. I bought from Mark Turnowsky who gave me a great price AND great customer service so the two are not mutually exclusive.