Survey

[icey]

What's wrong w/ survey....that's what it is. Also, yes I am into name brands. I work very hard for my money and if that is what makes me happy then so be it. I know millionaires that spend less than me but i don't call them cheap...i don't know how you stand financially but i am not judgemental toward s you...

 

[Lanee]

No judgement here either, but I was answering you. I would skip Tiffany and Cartier if I was going for a famous jeweler and go to those that I mentioned.

 

[Paul Varjak]

The origin of the ring does not say you love her; it only tells others who know a message by revealing its origin:

Harry Winston/Neil Lane spells Hollywood.
Tiffany says classic American style.
Cartier says Europe.

Chances are few will know the origin unless you tell. And if you have to tell, it sort of ruins the message.

 

[jlim]

I think icey wants us to assume given the choice of this 2 brand, which would convey a better impression on us and that will help him choose either one for this gf.

Doing a quick check on the thread, looks like 3 for Tiffany, 3 for Cartier and 2 Undecided.

 

[Kiz]

______________
Then that was my mistake...you guys have got to loosen up a little....
______________

Icey,
I also made a mistake of mentioning the Tiffany name on this board. One thing to keep in mind, it comes down to what it is that YOU/SHE wants. Whatever it is, it will be perfect. One thing to keep in mind when taking advice on the net, everyone has an agenda. Ok, now i know Im gonna get it, let me have it people.

 

[Hest88]

Icey, truth is, what's going to matter more is what *she* likes. Both are very different. I've never been impressed with the Tiffany setting, but my heart went ker-thump the first time I saw the Cartier. For others, it's just the opposite. I think the best thing to do is to find a way to figure out which setting she prefers.

 

[winyan]

Hest

You and I share tastes...between the two, Cartier.

However I also like other famous jewelers.

win

 

[Hest88]

Yep, Winyan. Hey, maybe we can pool our money and get that 2.something OMC you were eyeing. You can wear it half the year and I'll wear it half the year!

Oops, sorry to go off-topic...

 

[emeraldcut]

Cartier over Tiffany, no doubt about it. But if you're going the name brand route i'd check out Fred Leighton, Harry Winston, and Van Cleef and Arpels. I was looking for my fincee's wedding band and both Cartier and Van Cleef were cheaper than Tiffany.

 

[shurikt]

Not to belabour your already stretched analogy, but:

BMW 318 vs. Nissan 350z? Name doesn't mean a thing.

Perhaps you should have phrased your question this way, "If you HAD to choose between Tiffany and Cartier, which would you pick?" Then you might not get so many smarmy answers. This is Pricescope, after all.

To answer my own question: Tiffany. At least they were slightly civil to me. Product-wise? Boooooooring.

 

[canadianice]

So at this point in the game,
Survey says:

Cartier

Spend the dough and enjoy!

P.S. I would recognize a true Cartier
anywhere, just as the low, cupped prongs
of a real Tiffany would give it away
immediately.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 6/24/2003 3:11

2 PM LawGem wrote:

I got to tell you, I find few things around here as entertaining as the endless arguments about Tiffany's.

I still think Leonid needs to put a warning about the subject somewhere.

----------------

I am convinced someone in Tiffany's public relations is on this board to keep the topic front & center. There simply can not be *this* many people buying at Tiffany's who just happen upon Pricescope.

To answer the question, What says love more....I'm with some other posters - what says love is someone who carefully selects a diamond & ring that their to be will love.

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 6/26/2003 9:50:21 AM fire&ice wrote:


I am convinced someone in Tiffany's public relations is on this board to keep the topic front & center. There simply can not be *this* many people buying at Tiffany's who just happen upon Pricescope.

----------------

Well, I wouldn't put it past them--they would hardly be the first retailer to try that, here or elsewhere--but I'm not sure that's the explanation. Given Tiffany's brand aura, I'm sure it's the first place people who want to go "high-end" think about.

What do you think, Leonid? Time to trace some IP addresses?

 

[rbjd]

Well, if we are just evaluating brand names here, Tiffany would be at the lower end of the spectrum for me. Harry Winston and Van Cleef would probably be closer to what I'd go for. Cartier seems ritzier to me than Tiffany.

Hey but about that BMW/Nissan comparison. I assure you, a handpicked ideal cut stone that is BETTER than a Tiffany or Cartier diamond is more like an Aston Martin or a Ferrari compared to your beamer Icey.

 

[Mara]

Lamborghini!

Original Mercedes SL....

 

[icey]

Alright I'll play along w/this comparison, RBJD. The I "ideal" cut diamond you refer to is not a Aston Martin or Ferrari...it's a suped-up Honda civic that people see and know right away how much you spent unlike a BMW M3( Tiffany or Cartier)...

 

[fire&ice]

Caveat - snooty comment ahead.

Tiffany & Co. Is *so* middle America. There goods are better than average at best. They do not design. They do not create. They are a retailer.

 

[Paul Varjak]

Actually, they manufacture over half of thier own jewelery in six manufacturing plants around the world, and will be producing about 75% in coming years with the new Rhode Island facility now on line. They have proprietary design agreements with Picasso, Peretti and Schulmberger as well as other inhouse designers and craftsman.

Source: WR Hambrecht & Co Research Report

 

[IP]

Hey Icey...
These people on here are over-the-top against Tiffany. If you're looking at either Cartier or Tiffany you obviously have the $ to spend and don't need to be told that you can get more for your money elsewhere. That's a given. DUH.

I'm assuming you're not looking for a lecture on buying more for your money online..blah, blah, blah. So, to answer your question...my vote is Tiffany. It's a classic. If it's the 6 prong solitaire you can't find a comparable setting elsewhere(although they claim to be). If you know Tiffany rings you know the knock-off's don't come close enough. That's why many people will pay more for a Tiffany ring.

Anything you buy at Tiffany will look gorgeous on her finger. That's much more important to me than reading some GIA report, getting a bigger diamond for your money, spending hours and hours researching online or whatever people always go on and on about on here. Go with your gut and what you love!!

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 6/27/2003 9

7:19 AM icey wrote:

Alright I'll play along w/this comparison, RBJD. The I "ideal" cut diamond you refer to is not a Aston Martin or Ferrari...it's a suped-up Honda civic that people see and know right away how much you spent unlike a BMW M3( Tiffany or Cartier)... ----------------

Not really pertinent to the original discussion, but you think that someone would see a souped-up Honda Civic and know how much you paid, but wouldn't know how much a BMW M3 cost? I know how much BMW M3's cost and wouldn't know the value of a souped-up Honda Civic (after all..its souped up, who knows how much that extra stuff cost?)--soo....

In my opinion, if someone saw a Tiffany, they KNOW how much you spent...because they know you spent alot. But if they see an 'ideal' cut stone, whatever color, whatever clarity, they don't know how much you spent...because it could be from any vendor, at any price, the ring could be a custom job etc. There are more variables than with the Tiffany.

So IMO...the comparison should be...the ideal cut diamond is a souped up Honda Civic because they DONT KNOW how much you paid (due to variables), but the BMW M3 is a Tiffany because they do know you paid extra for the marketing, and the brand, and the 'quality' behind the name.

?

Wow this is getting confusing.

 

[Dukegirl]

(Mara, this is not directed at you. It jsut happens to come after yours.)

So, assume the buy the Tiffany. Everyone immediately knows how much you spent because, after all, it is a Tiffany. Is that the point of a ring? To show people how much you can spend? I thought it was about commitment, devotion, love...

 

[icey]

however you interpret it, i think i'd still rather be seen in the M3!
Are we still talking about rings???LOL!

 

[jlim]

----------------
On 6/27/2003 1

8:54 PM icey wrote:

however you interpret it, i think i'd still rather be seen in the M3!
Are we still talking about rings???LOL!
----------------

For 50 large ones, there's not too many cars that can compete with the M3. But hey, if you are looking for rings, get the S4. It has 4 rings

Or the RS4.

I would get an RS4 over an M3. 4 rings vs. blue/white propeller.

Btw, I know a lot of people do not know how much a BMW really cost. When they see someone driving up in a BMW, they think expensive. Well, if it happens to be just the 325i, then minimally loaded, it cost less than $30k. In that case, a fully loaded Honda Odyssey could very well cost the same.

 

[aljdewey]

These are quotes directly from Tiffany's 10-K report:

"Designs are developed by employees, suppliers, independent designers and independent "name" designers."

"Designer Licenses - Tiffany has been the sole licensee for jewelry designed by Elsa Peretti, Paloma Picasso and the late Jean Schlumberger since 1974, 1980 and 1956, respectively. In 1992, Tiffany acquired trademark and other rights
necessary to sell the designs of the late Mr. Schlumberger under the
TIFFANY-SCHLUMBERGER trademark. Ms. Peretti and Ms. Picasso retain ownership of copyrights for their designs and of their trademarks and exercise approval rights with respect to important aspects of the promotion, display, manufacture and merchandising of their designs."

"Tiffany purchases cut diamonds principally from four key vendors. Were trade relations between Tiffany and one or more of these vendors to be disrupted, the Company's sales would be adversely affected in the short term until alternative supply arrangements could be established."

"Products containing one or more diamonds of varying sizes, including
diamonds used as accents, side-stones and center-stones, accounted for
approximately 40%, 38% and 36% of Tiffany's net sales in Fiscal 2000, 2001 and 2002, respectively. Products containing one or more diamonds of one carat or larger accounted for less than 10% of net sales in each of those years."

"Finished jewelry is purchased from approximately 85 manufacturers, most
of which have long-standing relationships with Tiffany."

The upshot of all this: They may design some of their jewelry, and they may even manufacture some of it.....but they do not cut their own stones presently, as several have suggested. However, it appears they may be considering that from the following:

"In 1999, the Company made a 14.7% equity investment ($71 million) in
Aber Diamond Corporation ("Aber"), a publicly-traded company headquartered in Canada, by purchasing 8 million unregistered shares of its common stock. Aber holds a 40% interest in the Diavik Diamonds Project in Northwest Canada. Under the Company's diamond purchase agreement with Aber, the Company is obligated to purchase at least $50 million in diamonds annually (in assortments of diamonds expected to cut/polish to the Company's quality standards) during the next 10 years. It is expected that Tiffany's alliance with Aber will enable the Company to secure a significant portion of its future diamond needs and start-up is expected in the first quarter of Fiscal 2003.

Historically, Tiffany has not purchased rough diamonds; in consequence,
Tiffany has not purchased directly from the DTC. Some, but not all, of Tiffany's
suppliers are DTC sight-holders, and it is estimated that 50% of the diamonds
that Tiffany has purchased have had their source with the DTC.

Tiffany expects to purchase rough diamonds from Aber and other sellers
through its affiliated companies beginning in Fiscal 2003. In preparation,
Tiffany has, through its affiliated companies, invested in building a diamond
sorting and processing facility in Antwerp, Belgium and a diamond
cutting/polishing facility in Yellowknife, The Northwest Territories of Canada.
Rough diamonds will be exported to Belgium, where they will be sorted and
evaluated for cutting. Some diamonds will be sent to Canada for
cutting/polishing in Tiffany's facility. Other diamonds will be provided to contractors for cutting and return."

 

[Mara]

So I guess we will be seeing a Tiffany branded cut stone on the market very soon...maybe even something with extra facets?

I saw a 100 facet stone in some bridal mag the other day..the tagline was something like '100% perfect--just like her' (talk about a tall order!!), interesting concept. The stone's pictures looked a little odd as most extra faceted stones tend to.

Oh and I saw a writeup in the latest US Weekly on 'right hand rings' and the stars showing off their right hand bling...10 carat stones, 15 carat stones...Fred Leighton jumped on the De Beers bandwagon and was quoted, saying something along the lines of 'the right hand ring is for the independent woman who wants to show the world she's made it'.

Hmmm.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 6/27/2003 12:30:55 PM IP wrote:
Hey Icey...
These people on here are over-the-top against Tiffany. ----------------

IP, that's untrue. For those who want to spend more to get the name, or who hate comparison shopping, because they have the budget to spend and don't care that it costs more, or WHATEVER their reason.....by all means they should buy to Tiffany's.

What many of us ARE against is the MISTAKEN notion that Tiffany's diamonds are 1) cut by them, and therefore (2) are of better quality than can be obtained elsewhere.

That is patently UNTRUE, and I'd hate to think that anyone is paying a substantial markup under the mistaken assumption that more money equals BETTER quality than they could get anywhere else.

Tiffany's diamonds are purchased......and they are purchased from the same suppliers that supply many other vendors. The stones they purchase are not cut with a proprietary cut that no one else uses (as eight-star diamonds are).

For those who understand that and still wish to purchase at Tiffany's, go for it and enjoy the purchase.

Oh, and P.S.. for those of you who don't get it unless you describe it in "car" terms: The Isuzu Rodeo and the Honda Passport are EXACTLY the same truck.
They are manufactured at the same plant, the parts supplied to each come from exactly the same place. However, the Honda vehicle costs more because it bears the Honda name. The fact that I point that fact out doesn't make me "against Honda" or "anti-Honda", it is simply putting out the facts before you. Armed with those facts, if you still decide it's worth more to you to purchase the Honda for ANY reason, then go for it.

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 6/27/2003 1:34:43 PM aljdewey wrote:

The stones they purchase are not cut with a proprietary cut that no one else uses (as eight-star diamonds are).


----------------

Except for the Lucida, which is a patented design exclusive to Tiffany. But most of what they sell are generic shapes.

Otherwise, thank you for injecting some hard facts into this increasingly emotional thread.

 

[Tarams]

I'm with almost everyone else, skip the name. You can get a bigger, better stone & setting & save yourself $$$$$$ which the 2 of you can enjoy in so many other ways!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 6/27/2003 1:40:16 PM LawGem wrote:

Except for the Lucida, which is a patented design exclusive to Tiffany. But most of what they sell are generic shapes.

Otherwise, thank you for injecting some hard facts into this increasingly emotional thread.

----------------

You're welcome!

You know, I've heard that about Lucida, but I've never seen any documentation that proves that. Yes, they own the Lucida trademark, but I don't see anything that definitively proves that the cut is substantially unique from similar square diamonds.

It's been asserted that Tiffany's setting is made by Vatche, and others have noted that while it is rumored, it's unsubstantiated by documentation. Same thing for me on the Lucida.

Out of curiosity, LawGem, are you aware of any such documentation?

 

[AGBF]

On 6/24/2003 2

1:31 PM DiehardSearcher wrote:

"'What says I love you more....'

Neither, and putting saved money away for your kids' education."

I finally understood the question! Wow! A brand name ring says, "I love you"? I don't think so!!!! I agree with DiehardSearcher. When I thought the question was, "What says I love you more than a brand name ring?" my response was similar to his.

What my husband does that is most meaningful to me in showing his love is to share a dedication to our (one) child. When he agreed to challenge her to a game of doing sit-ups (to help her strengthen her abdominal muscles for ballet), I *REALLY* felt his love. I also do when he and I plan on ways to engage her more in reading or in anything beneficial to her health, culture, and education.

I am a diamond lover, but sorry...this one is a no-brainer for me!