Terribly nervous...

[cutes814]

Date: 7/22/2005 11:41:58 AM
Author: Erin
I think he will read that letter as soon as he's home from work, however, what I would realize is that he chose himself (again) over me. It is more convenient for him to read the letter when it is appropriate for him than to read it because it was important to you.

Amanda,

I am so sorry he didn't read the letter, but I think Erin brings up a very good point. His actions (regardless how tired he was), shows that he chose himself over you. IMO, I think a relationship works when two people give and give to the other. I believe that if he truly loves you, he would be thinking about how his actions affect you before he does it. "How would this affect Amanda if I did this?"

I say that only because I am like that. If I'm about to do something that affects my bf, I think about it first and wonder how it will affect him. If it's bad, then I won't do it. By him just putting the letter aside and ignoring it, I think that's a huge sign. I'm not saying that you should end things with him, but I just want you to realize that this relationship is currently about him and not the both of you. I know you said you have slowly allowed him to act like this and he can't change overnight, but now is the time to bring it up and make sure he is willing to start to change for the two of you. If he is not willing to talk tonight "because he's so tired", I think you should demand that he talks to you. I agree with Mara too, you can't push someone to move forward if they're not ready, but you're not asking for that. All you want to do is talk! Communication is such a crucial element in a relationship.

Girl, I will be thinking about you today. Take care and try very hard to stay strong. I hope he opens up (even if just a little) tonight. *Hugs and kisses*

 

[kaylagee]

AmandaP,

I''m sorry if I''m being too blunt but I pray you find the strength to move on to a better situation. I read where you said you didn''t have the strength to consider life w/out him. However, please realize that part of what''s draining your energy & will is this lack of connection with someone who''s supposed to be your mate/lover/friend.

I know it seems so easy to say these things from the outside but you really deserve better. You can''t solve his problem( or whatever makes him distracted and unplugged). Bottom line is you''re unhappy and reaching out and he''s pulling a zombie. Please be strong and know that there''s a better relationship for you. Maybe with him at a later & better time(a separation seems in order..maybe that would clear his head and wake him from his trance?) or maybe with someone new.

An emotional rel''p can be like a bicycle for two..why continue to do so much of the pedaling? You need a partner in the full sense of the word.

Really, If it''s financially possible at all, I feel you should move out ASAP... even if it means a roomate or temporarily staying with family.

I really hate that he didn''t read the letter.

I also hate to sound so harsh but the internet has limits. I don''t mean to come off the all-knowing or anything like that OTOH I''ve had to help too many friends and relatives in these type of situations to not be honest about what I feel.

Again, I''m answering based on what you''ve told us and my intuition. I could be missing something huge and if so, I''m sorry. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best! Please let us know how you''re feeling/doing.

~k

 

[jaysonsmom]

AmandaPanda:

I''ve been following your story, but didn''t respond because I felt that you got some good advice from others, plus I could not
put ourselves in your shoes because I don''t know everything about your relationship. However, I did want to revive this thread to find out if you and your bf ever had ''the talk'', and I hope that you got the answer you needed (good or bad) to ease your mind and move forward to the future.

 

[day_lily_me]

AP, I know most everybody else has kicked in their .02 but I can''t resist giving you mine. I''ve been married for 39 years this October so I have a little history behind me. I think you might love this guy and/or you might just feel comfortable with the ''known'' and afraid of the ''unknown''. I don''t know how old you are or anything else about your relationship except what little I''ve read on this thread. But some men have a passive aggressive personality. It''s when they sort of control things either by doing or not doing things but realizing they are doing it just the same. It''s not a good thing. And believe me and all the others who''ve told you that getting engaged or having him make a commitment will not make things better. They are all right - you deserve better. This is more than a red flag. I think it''s a dealbreaker - like someone else said. There is no way on earth that he could NOT know how much or how hard it was for you to write that letter and then for him to just ignore it was inexcusable imo. What if you were married and had kids? How will you deal with them? Will he just stay in the background or be active with them? If he stays in the background, will he support you in your efforts with them? Please, please, please rethink this relationship. Even if you get a commitment from him, then what? There are just too many things that will come up in life not to be able to have a safe place to fall, as Dr. Phil would say. If he won''t listen or take time to understand now, he never will. Maybe some counseling might help if he will go. But if he won''t, I think you need to put yourself first. I hope and pray that everything works out for you. You can''t really force someone to do something they don''t want to do but they should take your feelings into consideration - no matter what. As far as I can tell, this hasn''t happened in this case. Please do keep us posted on what happens. I know everybody here on PS wants the best for you.

 

[ammayernyc]

First, I wanted to thank everyone for their input. While I think it''s a little harsh to suggest that I move out based on this one thing, I do appreciate people taking the time to respond. There is, obviously, much more to the story and to our relationship than this one thing.

Second, I wanted to update everyone:

He read the letter!

On Friday, we went out to dinner and we were having such a nice time that I was afraid to ruin it by asking him to read the letter when we got home. But I did it and explained how incredibly hurt I was by him not reading it when I gave it to him. He was genuinely surprised and admitted that he was selfish and didn''t want to have to think about it the next day. He said he realized it was wrong and promised never to push me aside if I have something important I need to discuss with him.

So, when we got home, I left him alone to read the letter. When he finished we talked for a long time about what I wrote and our future. He said that he loves me and that he sees me in his future, be feels that he will know when he''s ready to get married, and that he hasn''t felt that just yet. But this is not to say that he doesn''t want to marry me, just that the ''switch'' hasn''t gone off yet. I think he is also very nervous about the wedding itself. It will probably be a bittersweet occation since both of my parents have died and his father as well. I explained to him that I would elope with him any time that he wanted and that it''s the marriage I want, not the wedding. I think that really hit home with him. We talked for a while about how I need to become more secure with myself and how we need to be more open with each other in the relationship. I told him that I wanted to be married next year. He thought that was fair. I was nervous about how things were going to be after that and said as much to him. He said that I wouldn''t be 100% happy unless he proposed the next day, and that he wasn''t going to do that. That sort of hit the nail on the head, which was sort of a revaltation to me for some reason. All this thinking about rings and marriage has gotten me into a frenzy and it''s more of a process than a decision.

There is a lot more to the conversation, but that''s part of it. It was a good thing. I was very pleased by it.

The next day, I was nervous as to how he was going to be, but he was sweet and loving and gentle so I felt a million times better. If he could act this way after all that talking, than I know it is a great giant step in the right direction.

I really think that he needs to be pushed to think about things and to act. I have never really done that before. But now I have, and I think that if he really didn''t want to be with me, I had given him a huge opportunity to back out, but he didn''t and he managed to move forward later on that weekend by actually admitting that he was sad about something.

So, I feel a whole lot better.

I will now be focusing on making myself stronger and more secure so that if I need to, I will be able to leave him. However, I am more sure than ever that we will be celebrating our engagement sometime soon. (Even if it is boy soon...

)

Thanks again!

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 7/26/2005 1:35:46 PM
Author: AmandaPanda
So, I feel a whole lot better.
I will now be focusing on making myself stronger and more secure so that if I need to, I will be able to leave him. However, I am more sure than ever that we will be celebrating our engagement sometime soon. (Even if it is boy soon...

)
Thanks again!

AP...I''m glad that the conversation went in a direction that was positive for you...more importantly, I''m glad to hear that you''re using this experience as a springboard to better yourself and improving your own self-esteem!!! This is going to be especially necessary in any long-term relationship regardless of whom it''s with...

You''re moving in the right direction!! Good for you!

 

[Mara]

Congrats on taking the bull by the horns...sounds like the discussion was positive. I wholeheartedly agree re: making youself stronger, not 'just in case' but just in general as a positive step for you and your life. One thing to remember is that just because you are with someone does not mean they define your life or your personality. That can be alot of presure on a man. Not that I am saying you are doing this, but it's just something for people to keep in mind. Sometimes gals tend to try to mold themselves into what they think their men want them to be especially as you get around the 'proposal' stage where you don't want to 'rock the boat', and this is not good, and it does not build a strong marriage. Most men respect strong women and independent thinkers and women who are themselves. Like I told Greg way back when we were discussing the same things you are now and when he was also being a typical male unsure about life and large committments...'I love you and can see you in my life 10/20/30 years from now, but if you don't feel the same way, I will not perish without you.'

Good luck!!

 

[Buena Girl]

...
He read the letter!
...

...
So, I feel a whole lot better.
...

...
I will now be focusing on making myself stronger and more secure so that if I need to, I will be able to leave him. However, I am more sure than ever that we will be celebrating our engagement sometime soon. (Even if it is boy soon...

)
...

Yay! It must be like a giant weight lifted off your shoulders! I''m so glad to hear you had such a positive weekend.

 

[kaylagee]

Dear Amanda,

I just want to apologize again for seeming so hard-nosed about making a move. This feeling comes from seeing how living with a man you''re not married to (but would like to be) can put the woman at a disadvantage, drag things out, make the woman more anxious and dependent than she should ever be on a boyfriend/FI.

Maybe I didn''t explain enough about my prehistoric perspective... LOL!

I do see courting(I think this term gives a better idea of my ideal of dating) & marriage from an old-timey perspective so I can understand how we have different viewpoints.

I just don''t feel a gal should be ''terribly nervous'' and trying so hard while building a rel/''p to marriage. There are just too many men in the world!

I can respect that we''re coming from different POVs & I am happy to hear you''re feeling better since he woke up.

G-d willing he''ll continue to be sensitive and tuned-in to your needs! All my best, K

 

[appletini]

AP: I''m so glad that y''all had a chance to talk about things. As long as you are both open about everything, I think things will only get better.

 

[kaylagee]

Date: 7/26/2005 1:44:51 PM
Author: Mara
Like I told Greg way back when we were discussing the same things you are now and when he was also being a typical male unsure about life and large committments...''I love you and can see you in my life 10/20/30 years from now, but if you don''t feel the same way, I will not perish without you.''

LOL! Now that sounds familiar! We never actually had that conversation but I made it clear w/ my behavior and attitude!

Oh maybe I''m just a meanie...

 

[jaysonsmom]

Amanda:

I’m glad that he finally read the letter and that you guys had a good discussion afterwards. As I stated previously, no one knows all the little details in your relationship, and only YOU could decided whether he was the one you wanted to spend your life with, and if you had reservations about having ‘talks’ with him, you’d always have that problem…..but maybe that’s the way BOTH of you work, so if you can live with that you may have found your match. To be honest, my husband is not always the most communicative person, and a lot of our talks are onesided (me talking, him listening), but I’ve found that he does listen to what I have to say, and he responds by his actions. Some of the previous posters said that your bf was cruel to put himself first, and not read the letter on the day that you wrote it…but I could see where he was coming from too. My husband told me time and time again that men are not the mind-readers that we want them to be. He told me that if I wanted something from him, I shouldn’t hint at it, or beat around the bush, I should just sit him down and get straight to the point. Maybe next time you can prevent all this unnecessary anxiety by just sitting him down, and say: “Let’s talk about where our relationship is going”. Wishing you the best of luck for the future!

 

[Mara]

Date: 7/26/2005 2:03:37 PM
Author: kaylagee

Date: 7/26/2005 1:44:51 PM
Author: Mara
Like I told Greg way back when we were discussing the same things you are now and when he was also being a typical male unsure about life and large committments...'I love you and can see you in my life 10/20/30 years from now, but if you don't feel the same way, I will not perish without you.'

LOL! Now that sounds familiar! We never actually had that conversation but I made it clear w/ my behavior and attitude!

Oh maybe I'm just a meanie...

Haha if you are then I am too.

I basically just laid it down. I just said...'Look this is the deal. Having been in a relationship before where I was unsure and didn't know and stressed out all the time, well I *know* now. So either you *know* too within the next 6 months, after us being together for 2 years which is plenty of time to figure things out. Or you don't know ever. And then I leave. And I will be fine without you.'

I think that took alot of pressure off him. All he had to do was figure out what HE wanted long-term. No more big discussions about feelings. Every 2 months I just said 'By the way are you thinking about what we talked about?'. Because I know he's a typical guy and would space out on any real decision. 5 months later he blurts out after a bottle of wine that he's more ready than I'd think to get married and I should just take him shopping to look at rings. WELL from that point on he was a goner. We started looking at rings the next week, and were engaged 3 months later. Poor guy never knew what hit him.

OH and the funniest thing is that after we got engaged, he was really gung ho about everything, it was like after the proposal deed had actually been done then all this weight was lifted off him or something. Men! They torment themselves so.

He said he wanted a strong woman, well he got one!

 

[ammayernyc]

Date: 7/26/2005 2:06:24 PM
Author: jaysonsmom

Amanda:

I’m glad that he finally read the letter and that you guys had a good discussion afterwards. As I stated previously, no one knows all the little details in your relationship, and only YOU could decided whether he was the one you wanted to spend your life with, and if you had reservations about having ‘talks’ with him, you’d always have that problem…..but maybe that’s the way BOTH of you work, so if you can live with that you may have found your match. To be honest, my husband is not always the most communicative person, and a lot of our talks are onesided (me talking, him listening), but I’ve found that he does listen to what I have to say, and he responds by his actions. Some of the previous posters said that your bf was cruel to put himself first, and not read the letter on the day that you wrote it…but I could see where he was coming from too. My husband told me time and time again that men are not the mind-readers that we want them to be. He told me that if I wanted something from him, I shouldn’t hint at it, or beat around the bush, I should just sit him down and get straight to the point. Maybe next time you can prevent all this unnecessary anxiety by just sitting him down, and say: “Let’s talk about where our relationship is going”. Wishing you the best of luck for the future!

I think this describes my bf and our relationship very well. We are both non-talkers when it comes to relationships and stuff, but I think that''s one of the reasons we get along so well. He wouldn''t, and hasn''t in the past, been able to deal with women who constantly need to check-in on how the relationship is progressing.

My bf doesn''t seem to have committment issues, as we are living together, as much as he has marriage issues. I also have severe insecurity issues and that is taking a toll on not only me, but on us. So, I''m working towards making myself better.

He sort of stated the obvious as, well if I didn''t want to be with you, I wouldn''t be living with you. So I think once he realizes that I don''t need a big fancy wedding that he will be able to move forward more easily. I promised myself that I wouldn''t hound him about it all until the end of the year. However, I still will make sure he knows what kind of ring I''d like when the time comes to it.

 

[jaysonsmom]

Date: 7/26/2005 2:11:08 PM
Author: Mara

Haha if you are then I am too.

I basically just laid it down. I just said...''Look this is the deal. Having been in a relationship before where I was unsure and didn''t know and stressed out all the time, well I *know* now. So either you *know* too within the next 6 months, after us being together for 2 years which is plenty of time to figure things out. Or you don''t know ever. And then I leave. And I will be fine without you.''

I think that took alot of pressure off him. All he had to do was figure out what HE wanted long-term. No more big discussions about feelings. Every 2 months I just said ''By the way are you thinking about what we talked about?''. Because I know he''s a typical guy and would space out on any real decision. 5 months later he blurts out after a bottle of wine that he''s more ready than I''d think to get married and I should just take him shopping to look at rings. WELL from that point on he was a goner. We started looking at rings the next week, and were engaged 3 months later. Poor guy never knew what hit him.

OH and the funniest thing is that after we got engaged, he was really gung ho about everything, it was like after the proposal deed had actually been done then all this weight was lifted off him or something. Men! They torment themselves so.

He said he wanted a strong woman, well he got one!

My story was similar....except we had only been dating 3 months when I told my husband I knew he was the one. I told him: "if you know too, then stop wasting my time, and let''s get to where we want to be". We were engaged after 2 months later, and are now happily married with kids. Sometimes a woman has to take charge!

 

[ammayernyc]

style="WIDTH: 99.11%; HEIGHT: 294px">ate: 7/26/2005 2:11:08 PM
Author: Mara

I think that took alot of pressure off him. All he had to do was figure out what HE wanted long-term. No more big discussions about feelings. Every 2 months I just said ''By the way are you thinking about what we talked about?''. Because I know he''s a typical guy and would space out on any real decision. 5 months later he blurts out after a bottle of wine that he''s more ready than I''d think to get married and I should just take him shopping to look at rings. WELL from that point on he was a goner. We started looking at rings the next week, and were engaged 3 months later. Poor guy never knew what hit him.

OH and the funniest thing is that after we got engaged, he was really gung ho about everything, it was like after the proposal deed had actually been done then all this weight was lifted off him or something. Men! They torment themselves so.

He said he wanted a strong woman, well he got one!

I''m so glad I did something similar! I was nervous before...

I told my bf that I wanted to be married next year. I told him I didn''t care how it happened, I just wanted to be married, I didn''t care if we eloped. I told him that I knew he was the one for me and that he needed to figure out (soon) if he was positive that I was the one for him. The fact that he was thinking about it the next day (I know because he told me how horribly his golf game was and that usually happens when he''s thinking about stuff...) and that he''s still basically acting so wonderfully proves to me that that was the right decision.

I guess I should pick a date to start ''reminding'' him...

 

[day_lily_me]

AP, I''m so happy that you got to have your talk. I still feel like kaylagee and have reservations about it long term but I hope only the very best for you. Work on yourself and make yourself strong - and most important - independent. But again, I think I''d have some kind of deadline in mind - like you told him that you wanted to be married next year. Keep reminding him as the clock ticks. Again, all the best to you and I really hope and pray that it all works out the way you want it to.

 

[jaysonsmom]

Date: 7/26/2005 2:18:09 PM
Author: AmandaPanda

I think this describes my bf and our relationship very well. We are both non-talkers when it comes to relationships and stuff, but I think that''s one of the reasons we get along so well. He wouldn''t, and hasn''t in the past, been able to deal with women who constantly need to check-in on how the relationship is progressing.

My bf doesn''t seem to have committment issues, as we are living together, as much as he has marriage issues. I also have severe insecurity issues and that is taking a toll on not only me, but on us. So, I''m working towards making myself better.

He sort of stated the obvious as, well if I didn''t want to be with you, I wouldn''t be living with you. So I think once he realizes that I don''t need a big fancy wedding that he will be able to move forward more easily. I promised myself that I wouldn''t hound him about it all until the end of the year. However, I still will make sure he knows what kind of ring I''d like when the time comes to it.

Every couple is different, and although there are "guidelines" to what make a relationship work, not everyone has to abide by the conventional guidelines. For example, some people may say that the key to a healthy marriage is making love 3 times a week....there are couples that are happily married without sex. I think everyone had your best interest at heart, and gave you the guideline for a healthy relationship, but it doesn''t mean that if you and your bf don''t have a conventional two-way communication, your relationship is doomed. I''ve seen plenty of non-conventional (some my say dysfunctional) relationships that work very well because the 2 people in the relationship understand each other.

HOWEVER, if one or the other person is constantly unhappy, then maybe there''s a better relationship match somewhere....that is what everyone was ultimately trying to say. Everyone just wants you to be happy.

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 7/26/2005 2:30:19 PM
Author: AmandaPanda
I guess I should pick a date to start ''reminding'' him...

AP...if I may be blunt here, but I hop you''re kidding about this!! Please don''t go down this route!! I''ll tell you why...I''ve had MANY friends who have done this and are now miserable...You''ll pick a date and your BF will begin to feel pressured. He''ll do one of 2 things: either break it off because he''s not ready, or go through with it even though he''s not ready. Either way he wasn''t ready to get married...this isn''t the best foundation for a marriage...

You''ve done a very brave and honorable thing by writing that letter and standing up for yourself and your needs. It sounds like your BF heard you and now HE needs to decide what to do with that information. Please give him that room to digest it and determine what he needs to do (just like you needed to express your feelings, now it''s his turn!)...if he is as wonderful as you say he is, he''ll meet you 1/2 way (which is what marriage is about) and come to an agreement of how your relationship will proceed...allow him that time and don''t exacerbate his anxiety with your need to set a date to "move things along."

It''s just my 2 cents, but I''ve seen it happen too many times to people that I care about and you''ve already gone through so much...

 

[ammayernyc]

I''m certainly not going to hound him by any means. If it took me so long to bring it up in the first place, I am not going to be able to have monthly conversations about it even if I wanted to. I just want to make certain that he doesn''t think I was just saying everything to get it off my chest and that will be the last we speak of it. I gave him my time period. I''m not going to go back on that if I get anxious...

As for being unhappy, a lot of that is just me. I''ve had a lot of trauma in my life, through loss and failed relationship and unahppy jobs. I put a lot of unwarrented pressure on him by being so insecure. He puts a lot of pressure on me by being so closed. We are both going to be working on that now. I think that if we hadn''t talked, it wouldn''t be a good situation since I would constantly be worried for no reason and he wouldn''t let me know how much that is upsetting him. But we are both making more of an effort now.

 

[onedrop]

Having been on both sides of the coin, ME being the one insecure in the relationship, and HIM being the one insecure in the relationship, I can definitely empathize with your situation. Insecurity in a relationship can be very damaging, at least it was in my case. How you feel about yourself and your level of happiness are (to me) vitally important in making a relationship work. But you seem to have begun to address these issues by airing your concerns and having an in-depth conversation with the BF. I just hope that you will grow more confident in who you are and will increase communication with the BF, and encourage him to not be a "non-talker." Again, though it seems that you are on the right path. I wish you the best!

 

[Blue824]

I was really glad to hear that he read the letter. Approaching certain subjects can be tricky and difficult, but once you do, its a great feeling getting everything out in the open. I hope everything works out and you sound happy, so that''s always a good thing

 

[cutes814]

Amanda,

I''m very glad to hear that you two had a nice and deep conversation. It seems he is willing to start thinking about "us" and not just "him", which is a very good step. I think relationships are very hard work, but as long as both parties are willing to work on it, then it''ll eventually work out. I think you guys are on that road.

I don''t think it''s just you who don''t want to lose him. He sounds like he is afraid to lose you too. I liked the fact that he admitted he was being selfish by not reading your letter because he didn''t want to think about it. Admitting something is the first step to change. Things are looking up. I wish you all the best. And rememebr we are always here if you ever need a listening ear.

 

[Mara]

I think when AP said a reminder date she meant to make sure that he is thinking about the timeline, not a wedding date reminder.

For us, it was never a big dramatic thing or discussion every month, but by me just saying that one line every 2-3 months (aka ''dont forget THAT convo we had''...it kept the issue near him to where he knew he had to give it quality mental time. I know him and it takes him MONTHS to think about something big...so I wanted to not be a pain in the ass or give him that chick ultimatum thing, but let him know ''ding ding your time is coming buddy!''. And if not, you''re missin'' out!

 

[icekid]

AP- I was just thinking of you and wondering what had happened with the letter.

It definitely sounds like you two are moving in the right direction though- toward some solid resolution!

But I really want to echo what the others have said- please take care of YOURSELF. You are a bright sweet woman, and you should know it! Your relationship, and life overall can only benefit by becoming a stronger more independent woman.

Take care!