Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in NYC.

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I doubt any of my kid friends were vaccinated 50 yrs ago.

I'll bet some if not most of them were.

If any of your friends immigrated here from other countries, they were vaccinated even 50 years ago. I know we had to get at least polio vaccinations before we could emigrate to the U.S. Once we got here, I also remembering at least one vaccine that was given to students in school. It was administered on little sugar cubes, handed out in those little fluted paper cups. (I think it was also a polio vaccine and that I didn't get to get one of those little sugar cubes because I'd already been vaccinated - by syringe - but I'm not sure about that.) I doubt the little school I was in the time had a school nurse, so the vaccine was probably administered by a public health nurse.

I remember the sugar cube, although I do not recall where I got it. I DO remember in highschool, them coming around and giving everyone a tine test (I'm assuming some student had been diagnosed with TB) and that was in say, 1979?

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What I see is a lot of bullying going on here and it's unfortunate. People should have the ability to post their legitimate thoughts/questions/opinions, but that just not the case. Sharing a thought/question/opinion does not imply that one thinks that they are an expert (but apparently everyone else here is…. . I can respect the opinions of others (even when different from my own), but perhaps this thread isn't the place for me. Have a good night

I agree that they should post if there are any legitimate questions, but I haven't seen very many questions. Those asked have been answered and explained. Opinions on this really don't matter. Anyone can think whatever they'd like, but when their opinions endanger themselves and others, it's not that simple. It's not really an opinion thread. To me, it's a thread to give info on the dangers of not vaccinating, just as the title says that measles is back due to the anti-vacc movement. If the anti-vacc people had a leg to stand on, I feel that they would post like crazy on this thread... but the fact is that all of their "research and studies" have been severely discredited. I doubt you will find a credible medical professional that will be anti-vacc, because vaccinating has been shown to be the safe, responsible thing to do if we want to keep unnecessary breakouts at bay.

Note: Based on what is being posted, it's pretty obvious who has a medical background. I don't know the exact professions of said posters, so I hesitate to say that anyone on here is an expert, but it's clear that they know what they are talking about. It's not their opinion after all, it's facts based on decades of research and real life. I truly hope that those who are leary of vaccinations will check out this thread and read the information that has been provided -- it may save their life or the life of a loved one.

This is the way I see it too, if they had a legitimate counter argument they could have offered it in the nearly 6 pages here.

They don't.

You know, it smacks of eugenics, but I still think that Darwinism in action would be for all these anti-vaccers to wipe themselves out with a lovely dose of measles or small pox or polio.

Unfortunately their reckless bloody mindedness in the face of scientific fact is putting all our lives at risk.

Yes, they could have. And they have before.

What some here don't realize is we've already had this discussion at great and bloody length, back in a previous year, and back then - before the infection rates started jumping exactly as predicted by several medical professionals in that very thread and who were utterly appalled that the discussion was even taking place - the anti-vax "documentation" that was proffered to enlighten all of us and change our minds from pro to con, was pretty much rejected as pseudo-science/long-discredited/quackery by anyone who looked at it with a critical eye, regardless of strict scientific background. NOTHING from any reputable medical publication was trotted forth back then, and nothing will be now, I expect.


I can have issues with a single doctor's advice at any given time. We all have to second-guess a doctor's advice from time to time - like whether to have this surgery versus none, or when (personal experience) a doctor diagnosed me with a knee problem that turned out to be something else (I ended up calling time-out on the incorrect treatment that was actually making me worse. In the end the PT called it correctly, treated it and I was fixed.) but vaccination schedules are not developed by one doc, they are developed and backed by pretty much every medical organization on the planet. If there was ever an issue on which to admit that you just don't know enough to make a better decision and to give credence to a preponderance of evidence and the agreement of people who know more than you do on a subject, this is it.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Just as a quick follow-up to my posts - I posted to reflect the TONE of some of the posts here. If some folks don't feel like any bullying has gone on, then that's their their prerogative and I'm fine with that. For what it's worth, I don't throw the term "bully" around and I certainly don't' subscribe to the "everyone's a winner" mentality (as suggested by aljdewey). It's interesting that those sorts of conclusions were drawn about me after only a few, simple posts here (but again, that demonstrates my point about the tone that is being put forth in this thread).
I happen to agree with much of what has been posted here, especially the information that has been shared by those in the medical profession. However, I still find the tone of some posts to be detrimental to the end-goal (getting anti-vaxxers to see the error of their ways).

 

[chrono]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I've read all 8 pages but refrained from posting due to the tone in this thread. I've deliberately declined from disclosing whether I am a vaccer or anti-vaccer to see the reaction. It is easier to to influence an anti-vaccer to join the vaccer camp with a kinder tone (honey catches more flies) than trying to force it down their throats.

 

[vintagelover229]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I've read all 8 pages but refrained from posting due to the tone in this thread. I've deliberately declined from disclosing whether I am a vaccer or anti-vaccer to see the reaction. It is easier to to influence an anti-vaccer to join the vaccer camp with a kinder tone (honey catches more flies) than trying to force it down their throats.

As I pointed out before throwing terms around such as 'hate' 'child abuse' 'want to punch them in the face' and even throwing it in the same category as cut and dry as 'sexual abuse' etc really would have anyone who is anti-vax running away from this thread in the fastest ways possible. The way I see it is many people distrust many big businesses-with good reason. There have been many things that have been recalled and found to have caused severe side affects and studies (just like statistics) can be swayed one way or another-esp when there is SO much money-power-and politics involved. I'm not saying this is happening-however from the 'crunchy mamas' that have researched it-most have done a delayed schedule. It seems like any doctor who question the studies/vax safty (not that vax can't work-just how many/multiple) themselves are quickly discredited by the same companies making a profit-then you see a huge smear campaign. I'm from the mindset that we must question in order to maintain creditability. Just look at how the govt has run around doing all sorts of crazy things-IMO its no longer a democracy-it serves special interests and big business. Fear can do many things-and control and manipulate is are just a couple of them Many people are aware that the media no longer reports the news and many news places are reporting the same things-all well scripted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17GbGmDORwk

Now I realize this is a bad example but you'd think that something THIS bad wouldn't be able to get on air-but they reported it as fact. It's funny btw (in a sad way) but IMO this is crazy that no one realized THIS was WRONG it got scripted and not caught.

If the USA is aware of propaganda in other counties(and feels it is their duty to 'bring about change') what's to stop it from happening there? In fact it DOES in groves. So that is (from my very limited reading/discussion in various crunchy mama threads) keeping them from trusting the information out there. You can SAY that you have the peoples well being at heart but it's the actions that they are watching and disbelieving. And this goes for many things in general-I'm not necessarily referring to their decisions to delay vax or not vax at all but why they don't trust anything with money and power behind it.

Most of them believe in natural immunity and continue to eat as healthy as can be and be as informed as they can on BOTH sides which is hard to do when there is so much hate being thrown their way.

BTW most mamas I know (including a nurse and many other people in the medical field) follow Dr. Sears recommendations for a delayed vax schedule. I haven't read the book so I don't know how that differs to the recommended schedule here in Canada or in the states.

Funny...the nurse practitioner that we go to as a family told me that she didn't trust the vax that they gave her daughter in China and so they had her re-vax upon adoption here in Canada. Wouldn't the same companies be providing these no matter where you are (at least in general) so if she didn't trust some from another country-and she is highly pro vax-I can see why some parents are skeptical in general.

 

[erinl]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

My biggest problem with this thread is that there is more than one choice than being pro or anti vaccines. You can believe in vaccines and their efficacy overall while simultaneously questioning the safety and necessity of the never ending litany of vaccinations added to the schedule.
Questioning the motives behind why certain vaccines are added to the schedule does not make you "stupid" or careless or malicious. Questioning whether you are getting the full truth from drug companies regarding the safety of different vaccinations does not make you illogical or a "loon."
Questioning why my newborn needs a vaccination for Hep B at birth when neither myself or my husband carry the disease, the child would not be able to engage in any of the behaviors that transmit the disease anytime on the near future, and the vaccine's effectiveness will be in question by the time they may engage in that behavior does not make me dangerous. I don't bow down to the doctor is always right and should never be questioned when they are vaccinating my child for an illness they do not have and won't get while the vaccine is effective.

Questioning how putting 4 single doses and one 4 part combo dose in my newborn on a single two month old wellness apt may be wildly extreme and arouses my suspicions that this practice speaks less to doing everything with my child's best interest in mind and more for the convenience of the physician and tech staff.

I questioned the reason why my children need Hep B at a young age...
When my first son was born in 1991, Hep B was not routine, there were less vaccines, less combination vaccines, and less given at each visit (at least with my pediatrician). When my second son was born in 1992, same pediatrician wanted to give Hep B at 2 or 3 month visit to my baby and also to my 16 month old. I questioned why they needed it and after our discussion they were not vaccinated with the Hep B. After insurance change, I discussed the Hep B with new pediatrician and we decided that my boys would get the Hep B series when they were older, which they did (7th & 8th grade). I also have twins that were born in 2002 and they, like my older children, have a non-traditional vaccination schedule. I have different questions/concerns about each vaccine and discuss them with my pediatrician to decide what is best for each of my children.

+1

 

[Trekkie]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I've read all 8 pages but refrained from posting due to the tone in this thread. I've deliberately declined from disclosing whether I am a vaccer or anti-vaccer to see the reaction. It is easier to to influence an anti-vaccer to join the vaccer camp with a kinder tone (honey catches more flies) than trying to force it down their throats.

As I pointed out before throwing terms around such as 'hate' 'child abuse' 'want to punch them in the face' and even throwing it in the same category as cut and dry as 'sexual abuse' etc really would have anyone who is anti-vax running away from this thread in the fastest ways possible. The way I see it is many people distrust many big businesses-with good reason. There have been many things that have been recalled and found to have caused severe side affects and studies (just like statistics) can be swayed one way or another-esp when there is SO much money-power-and politics involved. I'm not saying this is happening-however from the 'crunchy mamas' that have researched it-most have done a delayed schedule. It seems like any doctor who question the studies/vax safty (not that vax can't work-just how many/multiple) themselves are quickly discredited by the same companies making a profit-then you see a huge smear campaign. I'm from the mindset that we must question in order to maintain creditability. Just look at how the govt has run around doing all sorts of crazy things-IMO its no longer a democracy-it serves special interests and big business. Fear can do many things-and control and manipulate is are just a couple of them Many people are aware that the media no longer reports the news and many news places are reporting the same things-all well scripted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17GbGmDORwk

Now I realize this is a bad example but you'd think that something THIS bad wouldn't be able to get on air-but they reported it as fact. It's funny btw (in a sad way) but IMO this is crazy that no one realized THIS was WRONG it got scripted and not caught.

If the USA is aware of propaganda in other counties(and feels it is their duty to 'bring about change') what's to stop it from happening there? In fact it DOES in groves. So that is (from my very limited reading/discussion in various crunchy mama threads) keeping them from trusting the information out there. You can SAY that you have the peoples well being at heart but it's the actions that they are watching and disbelieving. And this goes for many things in general-I'm not necessarily referring to their decisions to delay vax or not vax at all but why they don't trust anything with money and power behind it.

Most of them believe in natural immunity and continue to eat as healthy as can be and be as informed as they can on BOTH sides which is hard to do when there is so much hate being thrown their way.

BTW most mamas I know (including a nurse and many other people in the medical field) follow Dr. Sears recommendations for a delayed vax schedule. I haven't read the book so I don't know how that differs to the recommended schedule here in Canada or in the states.

Funny...the nurse practitioner that we go to as a family told me that she didn't trust the vax that they gave her daughter in China and so they had her re-vax upon adoption here in Canada. Wouldn't the same companies be providing these no matter where you are (at least in general) so if she didn't trust some from another country-and she is highly pro vax-I can see why some parents are skeptical in general.

There is a big difference between delayed vaccinations and not vaccinating at all.

I didn't say it, but firmly agree that it is[/is] abusive not to vaccinate.

Not a single anti-vaccer has been able to cite a single credible scientific source for their decision not to vaccinate.

I remember from previous threads that you do not believe in vaccinations, but I don't recall why.

Do you seriously believe that we are brainwashed into vaccinating because your government is cahoots with big business?

If so, perhaps you could explain why developing countries (like South Africa, where I live) spend a fortune on vaccinating? There's no big business here making a fortune off vaccines, just grateful parents, some of whom remember losing siblings to diseases we now vaccinate against.

Based on your responses to this thread and a previous anti-vaccination thread, I honestly suspect that it is too late to try to reason with you.

I can only hope that those parents or would be parents who are still undecided will read the scientific facts offered by the educated people who have weighed in on this thread. It may be too late for you, but I hope this thread can save someone else's life.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Note: Based on what is being posted, it's pretty obvious who has a medical background. I don't know the exact professions of said posters, so I hesitate to say that anyone on here is an expert, but it's clear that they know what they are talking about. It's not their opinion after all, it's facts based on decades of research and real life. I truly hope that those who are leary of vaccinations will check out this thread and read the information that has been provided -- it may save their life or the life of a loved one.

Of course, like you (a pharmacist?) my niece and nephew whom are Dr. & Pharmacist advised us to vaccinate for every diseases known to mankind, b/c they were taught to do so in medical/Pharmacy school.

That's right... but we weren't taught to do so just because -- we were taught why...

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Seriously. At what point did our society become such wusses always crying "bully" when they can't have their way or when they're proven wrong??

Right around the same time some brainiac decided it was a good idea to adopt the 'everyone's a winner and there are no losers' philosophy is approximately where I peg it.

This next bit is directed at no one in particular, and not at any single individual in this thread. This has been in my proverbial teakettle for months now, and it's just coming to a full boil.

This bandwagon to call it 'bullying' every time multiple people in a thread share the same viewpoint is way, way off the mark. Tolerance means accepting that others may have different viewpoints, but it sure as hell doesn't mean you have to agree with them, nor does it mean you can't think the other viewpoint is patently uninformed and stupid if you wish to. I honestly wouldn't recommend expressing it that way if you want to promote a more balanced discussion, of course.

Disparate points of view do not rise to the level of bullying, and suggesting that it does is a disservice to those who are victims of *actual* bullying, in my opinion. When any of you gets chased around town or stalked online for no other reason than having someone target you because they think you're weak, I'll be the most sympathetic person on the block and agree that it's bullying and horribly wrong.

Life is not fair....period. There is no guarantee of equity. No one promised that opposing sides of any issue will be equally represented in life, but if it really bothers you that they aren't, feel free to step up and volunteer to advocate for the under-represented side, even if it's only as devil's advocate. If you aren't willing to do that, then the whining about bullying is just hollow.

ETA: To be fair, I will say that I do agree the tone can get to be a bit sanctimonious on several PS threads - enough to make me just check out because it's not worth the energy. I will wholly agree that it can really bug, but it still doesn't rise to the level of bullying.

I agree 100% with everything you've said, aljdewey -- there can certainly be a "tone" at times, at least I've guilty of it at times... but I believe it's due to the seriousness/urgency to give correct information regarding the topic. Just because you have an idea doesn't make it correct... especially when the matter isn't subjective -- it's science.

 

[vintagelover229]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

There is a big difference between delayed vaccinations and not vaccinating at all.

I didn't say it, but firmly agree that it is[/is] abusive not to vaccinate.

Not a single anti-vaccer has been able to cite a single credible scientific source for their decision not to vaccinate.

I remember from previous threads that you do not believe in vaccinations, but I don't recall why.

Do you seriously believe that we are brainwashed into vaccinating because your government is cahoots with big business?

If so, perhaps you could explain why developing countries (like South Africa, where I live) spend a fortune on vaccinating? There's no big business here making a fortune off vaccines, just grateful parents, some of whom remember losing siblings to diseases we now vaccinate against.

Based on your responses to this thread and a previous anti-vaccination thread, I honestly suspect that it is too late to try to reason with you.

I can only hope that those parents or would be parents who are still undecided will read the scientific facts offered by the educated people who have weighed in on this thread. It may be too late for you, but I hope this thread can save someone else's life.[/quote]








I am not recalling any thread where I stated my opinion one way or another with regards to our decisions. I am fully vaccinated as well as my husband-although his parents did opt out of the Heb B when they were born. I did have chicken pox growing up and will have to research more-when the time comes (appears after 50) if the shingles vax is something that is a viable option for me at that time. And I have gotten the flu shot as well as all 3 series in the HPV vaccine. So you really don't know anything about me or my decisions. I've taken quite a few science college courses in my day although not nearly as heavy duty as many of the well educated and passionate PSers here.

I NEVER said that we are 'brainwashed into vaccinating' but I will say that there IS fear mongering going on-be it regards to vax or other sensitive topics that many parents are passionate about. Big businesses-if people want to admit it or not-are heavily involved in policy decisions and are on boards to get things approved by the FDA.

As far as 'trying to reason with me' there IS no reasoning in this thread. There IS a lot of information in here thanks to many posters who have taken the time to explain in great detail things they have learned while in their fields of study as well as a lot of bashing among those who think that people are ignorant fools for questioning the ingredient in vaccinations. At one point they did contain mercury. I also recall reading some where at one point there was cloned cells of aborted babies-although I haven't personally looked into the validity of that-but I could see where many religious people have a problem if that is the case.

I was just trying to offer a different perspective since I do a lot of AP style parenting and see a lot of anti-vax threads as well as delayed vax threads. But I can see now that perhaps trying to do this wasn't the wisest decision on my part. I'll continue to just read along and see how this continues to unfold.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

You know, it smacks of eugenics, but I still think that Darwinism in action would be for all these anti-vaccers to wipe themselves out with a lovely dose of measles or small pox or polio. Unfortunately their reckless bloody mindedness in the face of scientific fact is putting all our lives at risk.

...if we could only be so lucky.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

...If there was ever an issue on which to admit that you just don't know enough to make a better decision and to give credence to a preponderance of evidence and the agreement of people who know more than you do on a subject, this is it.

Very well stated, ksinger.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I've read all 8 pages but refrained from posting due to the tone in this thread. I've deliberately declined from disclosing whether I am a vaccer or anti-vaccer to see the reaction. It is easier to to influence an anti-vaccer to join the vaccer camp with a kinder tone (honey catches more flies) than trying to force it down their throats.

As I pointed out before throwing terms around such as 'hate' 'child abuse' 'want to punch them in the face' and even throwing it in the same category as cut and dry as 'sexual abuse' etc really would have anyone who is anti-vax running away from this thread in the fastest ways possible. The way I see it is many people distrust many big businesses-with good reason. There have been many things that have been recalled and found to have caused severe side affects and studies (just like statistics) can be swayed one way or another-esp when there is SO much money-power-and politics involved. I'm not saying this is happening-however from the 'crunchy mamas' that have researched it-most have done a delayed schedule. It seems like any doctor who question the studies/vax safty (not that vax can't work-just how many/multiple) themselves are quickly discredited by the same companies making a profit-then you see a huge smear campaign. I'm from the mindset that we must question in order to maintain creditability. Just look at how the govt has run around doing all sorts of crazy things-IMO its no longer a democracy-it serves special interests and big business. Fear can do many things-and control and manipulate is are just a couple of them Many people are aware that the media no longer reports the news and many news places are reporting the same things-all well scripted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17GbGmDORwk

Now I realize this is a bad example but you'd think that something THIS bad wouldn't be able to get on air-but they reported it as fact. It's funny btw (in a sad way) but IMO this is crazy that no one realized THIS was WRONG it got scripted and not caught.

If the USA is aware of propaganda in other counties(and feels it is their duty to 'bring about change') what's to stop it from happening there? In fact it DOES in groves. So that is (from my very limited reading/discussion in various crunchy mama threads) keeping them from trusting the information out there. You can SAY that you have the peoples well being at heart but it's the actions that they are watching and disbelieving. And this goes for many things in general-I'm not necessarily referring to their decisions to delay vax or not vax at all but why they don't trust anything with money and power behind it.

Most of them believe in natural immunity and continue to eat as healthy as can be and be as informed as they can on BOTH sides which is hard to do when there is so much hate being thrown their way.

BTW most mamas I know (including a nurse and many other people in the medical field) follow Dr. Sears recommendations for a delayed vax schedule. I haven't read the book so I don't know how that differs to the recommended schedule here in Canada or in the states.

Funny...the nurse practitioner that we go to as a family told me that she didn't trust the vax that they gave her daughter in China and so they had her re-vax upon adoption here in Canada. Wouldn't the same companies be providing these no matter where you are (at least in general) so if she didn't trust some from another country-and she is highly pro vax-I can see why some parents are skeptical in general.

There is a big difference between delayed vaccinations and not vaccinating at all.

I didn't say it, but firmly agree that it is[/is] abusive not to vaccinate.

Not a single anti-vaccer has been able to cite a single credible scientific source for their decision not to vaccinate.

I remember from previous threads that you do not believe in vaccinations, but I don't recall why.

Do you seriously believe that we are brainwashed into vaccinating because your government is cahoots with big business?

If so, perhaps you could explain why developing countries (like South Africa, where I live) spend a fortune on vaccinating? There's no big business here making a fortune off vaccines, just grateful parents, some of whom remember losing siblings to diseases we now vaccinate against.

Based on your responses to this thread and a previous anti-vaccination thread, I honestly suspect that it is too late to try to reason with you.

I can only hope that those parents or would be parents who are still undecided will read the scientific facts offered by the educated people who have weighed in on this thread. It may be too late for you, but I hope this thread can save someone else's life.

But this is exactly my point - (the bolded) where you say that "Not a single anti-vaccer has been able to cite……" because there are no anti-vaccers in this thread!!!! The title, the name-calling (for example "child abusers"), the tone, etc. - an anti-vaccer wouldn't dare post here because they are likely afraid. What is the point of this thread? To validate our own beliefs that vaccinating is the way to go? What does that accomplish (other than giving ourselves a well-deserved big pat on the back)? It seems to me that rather than shun the anti-vaccers and/or scare them away, it might be more productive to actually include them in the dialogue.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Not a single anti-vaccer has been able to cite a single credible scientific source for their decision not to vaccinate.

IBut this is exactly my point - (the bolded) where you say that "Not a single anti-vaccer has been able to cite……" because there are no anti-vaccers in this thread!!!! The title, the name-calling (for example "child abusers"), the tone, etc. - an anti-vaccer wouldn't dare post here because they are likely afraid. What is the point of this thread? To validate our own beliefs that vaccinating is the way to go? What does that accomplish (other than giving ourselves a well-deserved big pat on the back)? It seems to me that rather than shun the anti-vaccers and/or scare them away, it might be more productive to actually include them in the dialogue.

I disagree. I feel very strongly that an anti-vaccer would welcome any opportunity to show why they feel the way they do. The reason they haven't is probably not because none have read this thread... it's more likely that they just don't have credible research with which to debate their views.

Is it really necessary to watch our tone when it comes to something as serious as this? I truly think that if there was "tone" in any of the threads, it's not to be mean, but show how serious this really is! Not everything in this world has to be so PC... and definitely not this.

This is not an opinion thread. This isn't the type of subject matter that we can all just "be right about," "give everyone a trophy or an A+" or "agree to disagree" in this nauseatingly PC society we've managed to make. Don't agree with CFA's stance? Great, don't buy chicken sandwiches from them. Don't "believe in" vaccinations?? Well... you could kill someone. Not the same... not that simple. Vaccinating isn't just some "belief system" one can choose to have or not to have -- it's been proven after decades of research. It has kept many "bugs" from coming back like wildfire and becoming full-blown epidemics/pandemics.

To directly answer the question, I feel the point of this thread is to give credible information in hopes of a better understanding of the importance of vaccinations. Information isn't enough -- it's understanding that is key. FWIW, if anyone on this thread (or anywhere in life for that matter) can have a hand in saving a life, then I would give them the proverbial "pat on the back" -- they deserve it. I welcome any anti-vaccers to join in this thread with the expectation they can and will have their "ideas/feelings" challenged with hard scientific evidence.

Have at it... we're waiting.

 

[erinl]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Msop:

I know you feel very passionately about your point and want to spread the truth. I don't disagree with vaccinating at all. But your tone, method of delivery and argumentative style is so unpleasant that it will never be effective in delivering the message that you hope to convey, which is a useful and valid one in and of itself.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Msop:

I know you feel very passionately about your point and want to spread the truth. I don't disagree with vaccinating at all. But your tone, method of delivery and argumentative style is so unpleasant that it will never be effective in delivering the message that you hope to convey, which is a useful and valid one in and of itself.

You are right, erinl. I am very passionate when it comes to matters such as this, so I'm sorry you feel that way... but you don't know me (or most likely anyone else who has posted) nor can you accurately detect my tone or the tone of others. I certainly never meant to upset, and I don't feel there is anything unpleasant regarding my "method of delivery," but moreso how one chooses to take it. Those who are looking to be argumentative will find a way to do so. Those who disagree on a topic have a tendency to make accusations of "bullying" or "tone." We are adults and shouldn't have to be continuously and protectively coddled, as not to upset anyone or his/her ego. Immunizations are to be taken seriously. Should someone be so dense as to choose to focus on how they feel the tone is coming across and dismiss life-saving information such as this... then I can only feel sorry for them and those whose lives are dependent upon their decisions.

Not everything in this life will be pleasant and make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I would imagine preventable suffering and death most certainly will not either.

 

[erinl]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

MSOP: No, I don't know you. But if you are hoping to speak to the silent viewers of this thread who are anti-vaxx and sway their opinions I am just giving you constructive criticism. The tone of your written words is the equivalent of a screaming picketer at an abortion clinic. And that is all we have to go on here in the internet.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I doubt any of my kid friends were vaccinated 50 yrs ago.

I'll bet some if not most of them were.

If any of your friends immigrated here from other countries, they were vaccinated even 50 years ago. I know we had to get at least polio vaccinations before we could emigrate to the U.S. Once we got here, I also remembering at least one vaccine that was given to students in school. It was administered on little sugar cubes, handed out in those little fluted paper cups. (I think it was also a polio vaccine and that I didn't get to get one of those little sugar cubes because I'd already been vaccinated - by syringe - but I'm not sure about that.) I doubt the little school I was in the time had a school nurse, so the vaccine was probably administered by a public health nurse.

you are right but I don't remember being vaccinated to death nor was my daughters when they were born in the mid 80's.

 

[kenny]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Note: Based on what is being posted, it's pretty obvious who has a medical background. I don't know the exact professions of said posters, so I hesitate to say that anyone on here is an expert, but it's clear that they know what they are talking about. It's not their opinion after all, it's facts based on decades of research and real life. I truly hope that those who are leary of vaccinations will check out this thread and read the information that has been provided -- it may save their life or the life of a loved one.

Of course, like you (a pharmacist?) my niece and nephew whom are Dr. & Pharmacist advised us to vaccinate for every diseases known to mankind, b/c they were taught to do so in medical/Pharmacy school.

Well, sure.
Of course.

Knowledge from medical school is not credible?
What is your point? Seriously.

If we can't trust what's taught in the best educational institutions, where can we turn?
The Bible?
Anything that fans irrational fears any Joe can think up and post on the Internet?

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

MSOP: No, I don't know you. But if you are hoping to speak to the silent viewers of this thread who are anti-vaxx and sway their opinions I am just giving you constructive criticism. The tone of your written words is the equivalent of a screaming picketer at an abortion clinic. And that is all we have to go on here in the internet.

Wow. ...just wow. If you feel it's in a screaming tone, then it is -- it's all about how you choose to perceive it. Actually, I would say that you're waaaay off base on that one AS THIS IMPLIES A SCREAMING TONE!!!!!!!!!

And for the record, I'm not interested in "net-nannying" under the guise of constructive criticism. Nothing I've posted was meant to be taken as anything but informative, and I made that clear in my last post. I cannot help it you disagree... however, I am the author, so I can assure you I know how it was meant. That said, you will take it as you'd like it to be...

 

[ckrickett]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

People who think this topic should be warm/fuzzy are forgetting this is a topic regarding the health and safety of our children.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

People who think this topic should be warm/fuzzy are forgetting this is a topic regarding the health and safety of our children.

This is kinda what I was thinking, ckrickett... it's very serious and should be taken as such.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Msop:

I know you feel very passionately about your point and want to spread the truth. I don't disagree with vaccinating at all. But your tone, method of delivery and argumentative style is so unpleasant that it will never be effective in delivering the message that you hope to convey, which is a useful and valid one in and of itself.

You are right, erinl. I am very passionate when it comes to matters such as this, so I'm sorry you feel that way... but you don't know me (or most likely anyone else who has posted) nor can you accurately detect my tone or the tone of others. I certainly never meant to upset, and I don't feel there is anything unpleasant regarding my "method of delivery," but moreso how one chooses to take it. Those who are looking to be argumentative will find a way to do so. Those who disagree on a topic have a tendency to make accusations of "bullying" or "tone." We are adults and shouldn't have to be continuously and protectively coddled, as not to upset anyone or his/her ego. Immunizations are to be taken seriously. Should someone be so dense as to choose to focus on how they feel the tone is coming across and dismiss life-saving information such as this... then I can only feel sorry for them and those whose lives are dependent upon their decisions.

Not everything in this life will be pleasant and make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I would imagine preventable suffering and death most certainly will not either.

I agree that sometimes when people disagree they play the "bully" card, but that was not the case here because I don't disagree with you as I am pro-vaccine.
And I don't think that this topic should be warm & fuzzy, so I'm not even sure where that's coming from? If I wanted everything to be all warm & fuzzy then I wouldn't have posted about my concerns in the first place.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I agree that sometimes when people disagree they play the "bully" card, but that was not the case here because I don't disagree with you as I am pro-vaccine.
And I don't think that this topic should be warm & fuzzy, so I'm not even sure where that's coming from? If I wanted everything to be all warm & fuzzy then I wouldn't have posted about my concerns in the first place.

I wasn't referring to you specifically, momhappy... this was more of an "in general" observation. The "warm & fuzzy" comment was in reference to how it seems our society has been so used to being coddled when dealt with/spoken to in recent years, that anything and everything is upsetting to just about everyone if not delivered to their liking or specific level of comfort. We seem to be more worried about our feelings than the actual issues at hand. We need to "Buck up!" as my grandmother used to say. If some have become uncomfortable reading this thread, then they probably have cause to be -- it's not a fun topic. It's scary. We are literally talking about life and death.

Concerns are very important to this thread, and I'm glad you have posted them. Concerns can and should be addressed.

 

[Rhapsody]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but quite frankly I do not have to respect it. And if you are going to have an opinion on an issue that has far reaching effects on the entire population have the courage of your convictions and don't claim you can't defend yourself because people are being mean.

Questioning is good, doing your own research is good. But for the love of all that is beautiful in this world make sure your research is from credible sources. All mothers want to believe they know what's best for their child, but sadly that's not always the case. Our immune system is pretty amazing, but the fact that life span has increased and disease incidence has fallen dramatically since the introduction of antibiotics and vaccines should tell people that healthy eating isn't enough to protect yourself or your child. And conversely the appeal to authority can also be dangerous, people trusted Andrew Wakefield because he was a doctor. You have to evaluate the credibility of the source and their references no matter what their pedigree is.

Someone mentioned the vaccine schedule, giving multiple vaccines at one time, was because of convenience for the doctors. If anything, it's the opposite. A lot of parents can't take off of work repeatedly to get the vaccines separately or they forget about appointments so the kids end up not receiving their full vaccinations. There's no data to back up the claim that the current schedule is unsafe. But most doctors will work with you if you want to alter it. But obviously delaying vaccination increases the chance of contracting dangerous diseases.

And regarding the issue of profit from vaccines, most of them now are net losers for the manufacturers, to the point where many companies have stopped making them leading to serious shortages. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/117/6/2269.long

And I can't speak about the quality of pharmaceuticals made in China, but based on how many people won't buy dog food made there I don't find it out of the realm of reason people wouldn't trust vaccines manufactured/administered there.

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I doubt any of my kid friends were vaccinated 50 yrs ago.

I'll bet some if not most of them were.

If any of your friends immigrated here from other countries, they were vaccinated even 50 years ago. I know we had to get at least polio vaccinations before we could emigrate to the U.S. Once we got here, I also remembering at least one vaccine that was given to students in school. It was administered on little sugar cubes, handed out in those little fluted paper cups. (I think it was also a polio vaccine and that I didn't get to get one of those little sugar cubes because I'd already been vaccinated - by syringe - but I'm not sure about that.) I doubt the little school I was in the time had a school nurse, so the vaccine was probably administered by a public health nurse.

you are right but I don't remember being vaccinated to death nor was my daughters when they were born in the mid 80's.

I suspect your wife would have a different recollection of your daughters' vaccinations, DF. In any event, routine vaccinations were certainly the norm, and in most likely required for school admission, when your daughters were young. http://www.immunize.org/timeline/

 

[rosetta]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

The vaccine on the sugar cube is the polio vaccine.

DF, your recollection about your children's vaccinations is almost certainly inaccurate. Go ask your wife.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

And I can't speak about the quality of pharmaceuticals made in China, but based on how many people won't buy dog food made there I don't find it out of the realm of reason people wouldn't trust vaccines manufactured/administered there.

I wouldn't trust anything made in China.. They don't care what or whom they harm as long as they make some $$$...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

The vaccine on the sugar cube is the polio vaccine.

DF, your recollection about your children's vaccinations is almost certainly inaccurate. Go ask your wife.

I try to find their vaccination records but unable to locate them. I remember they must be up to date with all vaccinations before they can register for school.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I agree that sometimes when people disagree they play the "bully" card, but that was not the case here because I don't disagree with you as I am pro-vaccine.
And I don't think that this topic should be warm & fuzzy, so I'm not even sure where that's coming from? If I wanted everything to be all warm & fuzzy then I wouldn't have posted about my concerns in the first place.

I wasn't referring to you specifically, momhappy... this was more of an "in general" observation. The "warm & fuzzy" comment was in reference to how it seems our society has been so used to being coddled when dealt with/spoken to in recent years, that anything and everything is upsetting to just about everyone if not delivered to their liking or specific level of comfort. We seem to be more worried about our feelings than the actual issues at hand. We need to "Buck up!" as my grandmother used to say. If some have become uncomfortable reading this thread, then they probably have cause to be -- it's not a fun topic. It's scary. We are literally talking about life and death.

Concerns are very important to this thread, and I'm glad you have posted them. Concerns can and should be addressed.

If some have become uncomfortable reading this thread (and I pretty much doubt it, myself), consider it a miracle of sorts. Because, my observation has been that when one is (and here comes that e-word again) emotionally invested in a stance, no amount of corrective information is going to change minds, and frustratingly, as this article points out, often causes the person holding the incorrect stance, to double-down. It's kinda like when some religious group predicts and anticipates the end of the world. When it doesn't end, they don't come to their senses, they just move the date.

http://healthland.time.com/2014/03/04/nothing-not-even-hard-facts-can-make-anti-vaxxers-change-their-minds/