The day after, reflections.

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 8:57:40 AM
Author: ksinger

Well it certainly isn't because I don't have any opinion. I'll only say that I do indeed hope that the Republican party adheres to it's strategy of pandering to the doctrinaire anti-intellectual anti-education religiously extreme right-wing of their party. It worked so well for them this time ....with the doctrinaire anti-intellectual anti-education religiously extreme right-wing of their party. Didn't play so well with the moderates and independents though. Clearly the Republicans don't NEED any educated or intellectual members, since as you say, the rednecks at the filling stations could solve all the country's problems.

They didn't run a conservative and lost.
60% of the base hated McCain

So now if your not an intellectual elitist your not educated and are against education.
typical.
Keep the insults rolling you doing good.
Your elitism points just keep rising up.

The working folks flat out need to stop selling to elitists and stop taking dollars and see how long they last.
It wont be long :}

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 11/8/2008 9:13:12 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 8:57:40 AM

Author: ksinger

Well it certainly isn''t because I don''t have any opinion. I''ll only say that I do indeed hope that the Republican party adheres to it''s strategy of pandering to the doctrinaire anti-intellectual anti-education religiously extreme right-wing of their party. It worked so well for them this time ....with the doctrinaire anti-intellectual anti-education religiously extreme right-wing of their party. Didn''t play so well with the moderates and independents though. Clearly the Republicans don''t NEED any educated or intellectual members, since as you say, the rednecks at the filling stations could solve all the country''s problems.

They didn''t run a conservative and lost.

60% of the base hated McCain


So now if your not an intellectual elitist your not educated and are against education.

typical.

Keep the insults rolling you doing good.

Your elitism points just keep rising up.


The working folks flat out need to stop selling to elitists and stop taking dollars and see how long they last.

It wont be long :}

McCain could have had all the base, and he still would have loss. The base was never going to (and I''m sure didn''t) vote for Obama. I recall you being quite happy with Palin, do you think if she were at the top of the ticket with a VP that was not McCain she would have won?

Nothing in what Karen said indicated "So now if your not an intellectual elitist your not educated and are against education." Where did this comment come from? Surely you do not believe that people going around looking down on people because they are educated or would be labeled "intellectual" is the way to go. You appear to have some strange complex regarding this Karl, why is that? From your previous post it seems to me you are projecting these feelings that you''ve developed from dealing with some of your "elitist" customers. Surely you do not believe all educated/intellectuals are like that? Do you believe "intellectual" is a dirty word? Perhaps people should remove these little buzz words so people can get over them and address the issue that is important.

In regard to the working folks vs. the elitists (and it appears that many think this is one in the same with intellectual because if someone remotely appears to be so they are labeled elitist...wtf?), you do realize that many so called elitists...many intellectuals, were once "working folks" themselves. I grew up extremely poor, I could tell you stories (but what would be the point), but I believe in education, I believe in working my ass off not just physically (and lord knows I''ve done it), but mentally. I would consider it a compliment to be called an intellectual and I''m not sure why anyone finds it fit to use it as an insult. The intellectuals can''t survive without the working folks? Guess what, the working folks can''t survive without the intellectuals.

What is really strange to me, this anti-intellectual/anti-elite attitude that many are developing, is that many of the same people are the first to go on about the founding documents, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, importance of the Bill of Rights, etc etc. Yet these beautiful documents and our government were put together by a bunch of intellectual elitists! I mean, if you''d rather Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin be at the helm of these things, so be it. Count me out.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/8/2008 11:50:29 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 11/8/2008 9:13:12 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 8:57:40 AM
Author: ksinger

Well it certainly isn''t because I don''t have any opinion. I''ll only say that I do indeed hope that the Republican party adheres to it''s strategy of pandering to the doctrinaire anti-intellectual anti-education religiously extreme right-wing of their party. It worked so well for them this time ....with the doctrinaire anti-intellectual anti-education religiously extreme right-wing of their party. Didn''t play so well with the moderates and independents though. Clearly the Republicans don''t NEED any educated or intellectual members, since as you say, the rednecks at the filling stations could solve all the country''s problems.

They didn''t run a conservative and lost.

60% of the base hated McCain

So now if your not an intellectual elitist your not educated and are against education.

typical.

Keep the insults rolling you doing good.

Your elitism points just keep rising up.

The working folks flat out need to stop selling to elitists and stop taking dollars and see how long they last.

It wont be long :}

McCain could have had all the base, and he still would have loss. The base was never going to (and I''m sure didn''t) vote for Obama. I recall you being quite happy with Palin, do you think if she were at the top of the ticket with a VP that was not McCain she would have won?

Nothing in what Karen said indicated ''So now if your not an intellectual elitist your not educated and are against education.'' Where did this comment come from? Surely you do not believe that people going around looking down on people because they are educated or would be labeled ''intellectual'' is the way to go. You appear to have some strange complex regarding this Karl, why is that? From your previous post it seems to me you are projecting these feelings that you''ve developed from dealing with some of your ''elitist'' customers. Surely you do not believe all educated/intellectuals are like that? Do you believe ''intellectual'' is a dirty word? Perhaps people should remove these little buzz words so people can get over them and address the issue that is important.

In regard to the working folks vs. the elitists (and it appears that many think this is one in the same with intellectual because if someone remotely appears to be so they are labeled elitist...wtf?), you do realize that many so called elitists...many intellectuals, were once ''working folks'' themselves. I grew up extremely poor, I could tell you stories (but what would be the point), but I believe in education, I believe in working my ass off not just physically (and lord knows I''ve done it), but mentally. I would consider it a compliment to be called an intellectual and I''m not sure why anyone finds it fit to use it as an insult. The intellectuals can''t survive without the working folks? Guess what, the working folks can''t survive without the intellectuals.

What is really strange to me, this anti-intellectual/anti-elite attitude that many are developing, is that many of the same people are the first to go on about the founding documents, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, importance of the Bill of Rights, etc etc. Yet these beautiful documents and our government were put together by a bunch of intellectual elitists! I mean, if you''d rather Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin be at the helm of these things, so be it. Count me out.

I agree with Moon 100%! But I''m left wondering something: I''m just now graduating from college at age 27...so do I become an intellectual elitist the day of graduation, or the day after?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 4:31:27 PM
Author: thing2of2
I agree with Moon 100%! But I''m left wondering something: I''m just now graduating from college at age 27...so do I become an intellectual elitist the day of graduation, or the day after?

depends if you develop the attitude.
intellectual elitist is an attitude and has very little to do with a degree.

elitism of all kinds sux.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 11:50:29 AM
Author: MoonWater

What is really strange to me, this anti-intellectual/anti-elite attitude that many are developing, is that many of the same people are the first to go on about the founding documents, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, importance of the Bill of Rights, etc etc. Yet these beautiful documents and our government were put together by a bunch of intellectual elitists! I mean, if you'd rather Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin be at the helm of these things, so be it. Count me out.

See my above post.
The spark that set off the revolutionary war was social and economic elitism on the part of the King.
Palin for prez and Joe for VP is a combo I would vote for in a heartbeat.
A plumber knows that crap flows down hill and would be very good at diverting it from our heads.
An Iron She-Wolf in the Whitehouse would be a good thing.

 

[risingsun]

I think that Moon, Ksinger, Thing and I need to start a thread for intellectual elitists and share our secret shame. All the rest of you IEs are welcome to join us

When did it become a negative attribute to possess intellectual curiosity and vigor? Oh, I remember, you had to be an Alpha in Brave New World to think for yourself

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/8/2008 4:50:43 PM
Author: risingsun
I think that Moon, Ksinger, Thing and I need to start a thread for intellectual elitists and share our secret shame. All the rest of you IE are welcome to join us

When did it become a negative attribute to possess intellectual curiosity and vigor? Oh, I remember, you had to be an Alpha in Brave New World

Hahaha!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 11:50:29 AM
Author: MoonWater
Surely you do not believe that people going around looking down on people because they are educated or would be labeled ''intellectual'' is the way to go.

putting people who think they are elite down is good fun its their attitude reflected back on them.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/8/2008 4:53:53 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 11:50:29 AM

Author: MoonWater

Surely you do not believe that people going around looking down on people because they are educated or would be labeled ''intellectual'' is the way to go.

putting people who think they are elite down is good fun its their attitude reflected back on them.

But wouldn''t that make you an Anti-Intellectual Elitist?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 4:54:34 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 11/8/2008 4:53:53 PM

Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 11:50:29 AM


Author: MoonWater


Surely you do not believe that people going around looking down on people because they are educated or would be labeled 'intellectual' is the way to go.

putting people who think they are elite down is good fun its their attitude reflected back on them.

But wouldn't that make you an Anti-Intellectual Elitist?

If it pleases you to label me anti-elitism then it is a title I will wear with pride.
Because it reflects nothing on me.

 

[risingsun]

Please, Karl, it''s anti-intellectual elitist. Sounds better

 

[iheartscience]

You forgot the "Intellectual" in "Anti-Intellectual Elitist." It just seems to me that looking down on intellectuals for supposedly looking down on working people is a bit silly and hypocritical!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 4:59:31 PM
Author: thing2of2
You forgot the ''Intellectual'' in ''Anti-Intellectual Elitist.'' It just seems to me that looking down on intellectuals for supposedly looking down on working people is a bit silly and hypocritical!

intellectual isn''t the bad thing elitism is.
Intellectuals don''t necessarily look down on working folks but intellectual elitists do.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:02:21 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 4:59:31 PM
Author: thing2of2
You forgot the ''Intellectual'' in ''Anti-Intellectual Elitist.'' It just seems to me that looking down on intellectuals for supposedly looking down on working people is a bit silly and hypocritical!

intellectual isn''t the bad thing elitism is.
Intellectuals don''t necessarily look down on working folks but intellectual elitists do.

It''s elitist to label someone else an elitlst. I guess we''re all in trouble

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:02:21 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 4:59:31 PM

Author: thing2of2

You forgot the ''Intellectual'' in ''Anti-Intellectual Elitist.'' It just seems to me that looking down on intellectuals for supposedly looking down on working people is a bit silly and hypocritical!

intellectual isn''t the bad thing elitism is.

Intellectuals don''t necessarily look down on working folks but intellectual elitists do.

See, that''s the crux of the problem! You understand that, but many people don''t! "Intellectual" is getting automatically tied to "elitist," so now it''s somehow become a bad thing to be intellectual. Being an elitist is a different can of worms altogether!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 4:58:30 PM
Author: risingsun
Please, Karl, it''s anti-intellectual elitist. Sounds better

I believe in equality all elitists are equally bad.

 

[risingsun]

Read my other post, Karl. You, too, are an elitist; therefore you have been hoisted on your own petard

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:04:39 PM
Author: thing2of2

See, that''s the crux of the problem! You understand that, but many people don''t! ''Intellectual'' is getting automatically tied to ''elitist,'' so now it''s somehow become a bad thing to be intellectual. Being an elitist is a different can of worms altogether!

Working folks want their children to be ''Intellectual'' some of the most ''Intellectual'' people I know are also the most humble.
Heck iv been accused of being one myself :}
I prefer to be classified as a geek however :}

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:09:50 PM
Author: risingsun
Read my other post, Karl. You, too, are an elitist; therefore you have been hoisted on your own petard

They label themselves, sometimes in words sometimes in actions.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:09:57 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 5:04:39 PM

Author: thing2of2


See, that''s the crux of the problem! You understand that, but many people don''t! ''Intellectual'' is getting automatically tied to ''elitist,'' so now it''s somehow become a bad thing to be intellectual. Being an elitist is a different can of worms altogether!

Working folks want their children to be ''Intellectual'' some of the most ''Intellectual'' people I know are also the most humble.

Heck iv been accused of being one myself :}

I prefer to be classified as a geek however :}

Will you please stop complicating your label?!! Now you''re what, an Anti-Intellectual Elitist Intellectual Geek? It''s getting unwieldy!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:12:56 PM
Author: thing2of2


Will you please stop complicating your label?!! Now you''re what, an Anti-Intellectual Elitist Intellectual Geek? It''s getting unwieldy!

Why not just label me a nice guy it is much nicer :}

 

[FrekeChild]

What makes someone an Intellectual Elitist anyway?

(Someone needs to enlighten this Pastry/Shoe Elitist...)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:22:35 PM
Author: FrekeChild
What makes someone an Intellectual Elitist anyway?


(Someone needs to enlighten this Pastry/Shoe Elitist...)

Someone who thinks they are better than someone else because of their self perceived Intellect.
Often collect paper that they think shows them to be intellectual and spend large sums of money collecting it rather than doing something useful.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 11/8/2008 4:45:25 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 11:50:29 AM

Author: MoonWater


What is really strange to me, this anti-intellectual/anti-elite attitude that many are developing, is that many of the same people are the first to go on about the founding documents, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, importance of the Bill of Rights, etc etc. Yet these beautiful documents and our government were put together by a bunch of intellectual elitists! I mean, if you''d rather Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin be at the helm of these things, so be it. Count me out.

See my above post.

The spark that set off the revolutionary war was social and economic elitism on the part of the King.

Palin for prez and Joe for VP is a combo I would vote for in a heartbeat.

A plumber knows that crap flows down hill and would be very good at diverting it from our heads.

An Iron She-Wolf in the Whitehouse would be a good thing.

Do you equate elitism with being abusive? Because I don''t believe it was just social and economic elitism on the part of King George that sparked the Revolutionary War.

The fellows that attended the Continental Congress were intellectuals and elitists. Some of them even had the attitude. The government was structured in a way to prevent a mobocracy (which I''m sure would include someone like Joe the Plumber). I''m just saying, I don''t get this disdain for intellectual elites.

Additionally, I''m not sure why someone should be trusted to handle something they have little understanding of. Ignorance should not be something to aspire to but seems to be what''s going on. Suggesting that Palin/Plumber (2012!!!

) is like taking a guy that''s an expert on say, restoring cars, asking him questions about growing coffee beans and claiming his opinion is equally valid as the folks that trained to be bean growers all their lives. It doesn''t make sense.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:52:30 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 5:22:35 PM

Author: FrekeChild

What makes someone an Intellectual Elitist anyway?



(Someone needs to enlighten this Pastry/Shoe Elitist...)

Someone who thinks they are better than someone else because of their self perceived Intellect.

Often collect paper that they think shows them to be intellectual and spend large sums of money collecting it rather than doing something useful.

Heh, the U.S. in general tends to think it''s better than everyone else. So we''re collectively elitists!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:09:50 PM
Author: risingsun
Read my other post, Karl. You, too, are an elitist; therefore you have been hoisted on your own petard

I''m glad I''m not the only one that noticed that.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:52:30 PM
Author: strmrdr
Often collect paper that they think shows them to be intellectual and spend large sums of money collecting it rather than doing something useful.

College isn't "useful", huh? Now who's being judgmental? Classic example of "leveling" ... try to make other people feel "less than" in order to feel better oneself. Isn't that the very thing you're accusing "elitists" of?

ETA: I hear the *really* smart people don't have to spend large sums of $$ .. they're on scholarship!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 11/8/2008 5:52:30 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/8/2008 5:22:35 PM
Author: FrekeChild
What makes someone an Intellectual Elitist anyway?

(Someone needs to enlighten this Pastry/Shoe Elitist...)

Someone who thinks they are better than someone else because of their self perceived Intellect.
Often collect paper that they think shows them to be intellectual and spend large sums of money collecting it rather than doing something useful.

So you're saying I'm an elitist because I'm getting an education? How about the fact that my first degree was in culinary arts? Is that not useful? Not to mention I worked, doing something useful, the entire time I was getting said degree.

Is my FF an elitist because he's getting his third expensive (and mostly paid for by the government in one way or another) piece of paper, in order to teach other elites (read, undergraduate students) OR to crunch numbers for the federal government, so that the world can be a better place (through preventing crime, I might add)? And he's spent the time when he was not being elite, helping out others, through tutoring, to become elite?

Karl, I'm not picking on you, but I've been discriminated against because I was "elite" (got that associates in culinary arts) and the chef I was working for FIRED me AND LOOKED DOWN ON ME because I had an "expensive" piece of paper.

I'm sorry, but I, and a growing number of the population, seems to think getting an education is a good thing. Did you know that college enrollment goes WAY up when the economy is in a poo hole? People can't find jobs because they are somehow lacking in fulfilling those job requirements, and decide to go back to school because degrees are one way to fulfill those requirements. More and more jobs are requiring at least a four year degree. That is why I went back to school. That, and apparently to become more elite.

If an education is all you need to be an intellectual elitist, then count me in as an intellectual elitist. Heck, apparently I was one at the age of 20! And here I was thinking that I was just a Pastry and Shoe elitist!

 

[Ellen]

You guys are dumb.

 

[purrfectpear]

Being an intellectual doesn''t make you better than the GED holder, it just makes you generally smarter

Look generalisms can be made about everyone, but they will not apply across the board. There are undoubtedly professors and CEO''s who lack common sense, just as there are mechanics and gardners who read the classics and play a mean game of chess.

There is nothing wrong with respecting the average joe, but I don''t want him (or her) running the country. It''s not just about education, it''s about experience.