The potential quest for a ruby/“ ruby like” stone

[voce]

FWIW Gary's 1.59 is better cut than the 1.41, and it is past the 1.5 mark, so a potential for a price premium there.

 

[Rubybrick]

FWIW Gary's 1.59 is better cut than the 1.41, and it is past the 1.5 mark, so a potential for a price premium there.

I don’t I know which shop is Gary’s @voce

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Wow the prices of those nice rubies, kills any dream of an actual ruby....

A friend told me that place is a rip off and you need to bargain down to like half price, walk away, come back a few weeks later and the guy will sell at the cheaper price if the stone is still there!

 

[voce]

I don’t I know which shop is Gary’s @voce

I was talking about Finewater Gems, since you seemed bewildered by the price difference between the 1.41 and 1.59. The 1.41 is dark in the center, what we call extinction. The 1.59 is well cut and returns more light back to our eyes across the entire top surface of the stone, while the 1.41 is only nice around the edges. If the 1.41 were recut for a similar percentage of light return, it'll loose carat weight, so it's priced like a smaller stone because of this flaw. The cut of the 1.19 is better than the 1.41 but not as good as the 1.59.

I think the price may just also proportional to what the vendor acquired them for, so that's why old stock gems are priced lower, i.e. something cost the vendor a fraction of the cost you would buy it for today, so the vendor phases on the savings by taking only a fixed markup on the original cost to them.

 

[Rubybrick]

I was talking about Finewater Gems, since you seemed bewildered by the price difference between the 1.41 and 1.59. The 1.41 is dark in the center, what we call extinction. The 1.59 is well cut and returns more light back to our eyes across the entire top surface of the stone, while the 1.41 is only nice around the edges. If the 1.41 were recut for a similar percentage of light return, it'll loose carat weight, so it's priced like a smaller stone because of this flaw. The cut of the 1.19 is better than the 1.41 but not as good as the 1.59.

I think the price may just also proportional to what the vendor acquired them for, so that's why old stock gems are priced lower, i.e. something cost the vendor a fraction of the cost you would buy it for today, so the vendor phases on the savings by taking only a fixed markup on the original cost to them.

Thank you for all this good info, makes a lot more sense now.

 

[arkieb1]

The way to test for Burmese would be fluorescence under UV and telltale Burma-only inclusion types under the loupe/microscope. Even then, it should be left to people who are truly experts and have inspected rubies for a livelihood. Take fluorescence for example. While as a general rule Burmese ruby is more fluorescent than African ruby, occasionally there will be the "freak" African ruby that matches the level of fluorescence found in Burmese ruby, and synthetic ruby will have even more fluorescence than any Burmese ruby. I think a safer bet is seeing when your mom acquired the ring. Someone fact check for me, but I think prior to the 1990s all mined rubies were Burma or Thai or Vietnam in origin? If your mom acquired the ruby in the 1970s, it's safe to say it's Burmese if it's fluorescent. If 80s, there's a possibility it's top Vietnamese ruby.

I have African rubies that have strong fluorescence and very similar inclusions to Burmese ones, in fact I couldn't tell the difference until they went to Lotus, so even someone who has seen a lot of rubies, ie isn't a novice IMHO couldn't tell the difference.

I find rubies one of the hardest stones to assess they should ALL be sent to a reliable lab.

 

[AV_]

I do not quite see inexpensive ruby - those are hardly the worst prices around too. This is now. Prices for the finest other colours seem common sense in comparison. Then again, I do not own anything red at all - if these were prices for sky blue sapphire, I might be as wide-eyed about them as anyone!

I find the pink and the pad classically impressive, and my taste goes for this www - a classical dark purple that hardly exists in any material...

2c

 

[T L]

AV I’ve seen dark purple like that in some really nice umbalites.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWhkIKYB0w-/?igshid=1tn36zf6r8m8r

 

[Rubybrick]

Ok, this really is a lot more challenging than I thought. Not sure if I should start a different tread, but I am now starting to think that a hot pink sapphire would be nice! I was looking at Gary at fine waters 1.21 hot pink sapphire and thought I looked really nice, but I really want the color to be intense. The setting will be bezel so maybe it will be darker once set. Budget is 4K, flexible with shape, but I would like to stay away from stones that are too oblong. Needs to be great cut, I am ok with heat treatment. And I would like it to be 7mm and up. So any stones that you see jump out? @voce @lovedogs @AV_ @T L and of course anyone? Thanks!

 

[voce]

@Rubybrick pink is not really my thing unless it's lavender or Mahenge spinel, but I searched LT for you and found these two.

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings-colored-stone-center/4-ct-hot-pink-sapphire-ring-size-5-dot-5

I don't know if you like heart shaped stones, but I assumed that is what's meant by hot pink.

This loose stone is about 7mm, and cut by Jeff White! This one is not as saturated, so I don't know if it qualifies as "hot" pink, but just look at that cut!

https://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/extraordinary-jeff-white-pink-sapphire

They are both private sellers, so be very sure it's what you want before you pull the trigger.

Edit: here is the only suitable one I found from Gemfix. It's barely under your budget, but a hot hot pink.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-pink-13-556

 

[Rubybrick]

@Rubybrick pink is not really my thing unless it's lavender or Mahenge spinel, but I searched LT for you and found these two.

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings-colored-stone-center/4-ct-hot-pink-sapphire-ring-size-5-dot-5

I don't know if you like heart shaped stones, but I assumed that is what's meant by hot pink.

This loose stone is about 7mm, and cut by Jeff White! This one is not as saturated, so I don't know if it qualifies as "hot" pink, but just look at that cut!

https://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/extraordinary-jeff-white-pink-sapphire

They are both private sellers, so be very sure it's what you want before you pull the trigger.

Edit: here is the only suitable one I found from Gemfix. It's barely under your budget, but a hot hot pink.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-pink-13-556

Thanks Voce. And yes the color in the heart shape is what I am after, but not the shape.

What do you think of Yvonne mehrnge spinel?

And yes the one by Jeff White is a bit pale.

 

[Rubybrick]

Thanks Voce. And yes the color in the heart shape is what I am after, but not the shape.

What do you think of Yvonne mehrnge spinel?

And yes the one by Jeff White is a bit pale.

I do like the gem fix one, at first I thought a little light, but I just saw another tread on a bubblegum pink one which looks darker IRL that might be good! What do you think about the price?

 

[voce]

I would personally go with Yvonne's Mahenge spinel. You know there's fluorescence and no treatment there, and with her 10% off sale soon, it'll cost less than Gemfix. To me, the Gemfix sapphire may be more aesthetically pleasing, but that sapphire has been treated with heat to achieve that color, and isn't quite as rare.

But then, I'm admittedly not as much a lover of pink, so the price I am willing to pay for a heated pink sapphire is lower compared to other PSers, I think.

 

[leslie1956]

I'm with you on the pinks, voce. I also only like the really vivid shades of pink and red-pink, medium to pale pinks don't interest me. I love Yvonne's two largest Mahenge spinels, if I had the funds, one of them would be mine! Looking forward I may have her try and source one in a smaller size, I'd be happy with a 5-7 mm stone.

 

[AV_]

.
Red-ish Pink & J. Dyer signature WWW

It does come at a price.

 

[AV_]

.
One more

- different species & that sort of pink WWW

over & out

 

[Rubybrick]

Thanks @AV_

 

[Rubybrick]

So I got both of Yvonne’s mehenge spinels. The gems are lovely, but I am not in love. Both are very similar in color, and the color is more raspberry with gray tone. I was just hoping for deeper and more intense color. I have never seen spinels, and I then started looking at finewaters spinels also, and I started to notice the ones on he’s hand tend to look less saturated than the picture with close up of the stone. The difference doesn’t seem as pronounced for the sapphires. So do pink spinels tend to be less intense color and more gray toned? Gary’s 1.72 purple-pink sapphire is pretty close, but maybe with a touch less purple.

 

[T L]

So I got both of Yvonne’s mehenge spinels. The gems are lovely, but I am not in love. Both are very similar in color, and the color is more raspberry with gray tone. I was just hoping for deeper and more intense color. I have never seen spinels, and I then started looking at finewaters spinels also, and I started to notice the ones on he’s hand tend to look less saturated than the picture with close up of the stone. The difference doesn’t seem as pronounced for the sapphires. So do pink spinels tend to be less intense color and more gray toned? Gary’s 1.72 purple-pink sapphire is pretty close, but maybe with a touch less purple.

No, some Mahenge spinels look like fine rubies. Unfortunately, much of the highly saturated material is in the hands of collectors. I hear what is coming out of the mines these days is subpar, or it could be the better material is already spoken for by the Asian gem market. One Mahenge dealer told me he can no longer get fine material,

 

[qubitasaurus]

So I got both of Yvonne’s mehenge spinels. The gems are lovely, but I am not in love. Both are very similar in color, and the color is more raspberry with gray tone. I was just hoping for deeper and more intense color. I have never seen spinels, and I then started looking at finewaters spinels also, and I started to notice the ones on he’s hand tend to look less saturated than the picture with close up of the stone. The difference doesn’t seem as pronounced for the sapphires. So do pink spinels tend to be less intense color and more gray toned? Gary’s 1.72 purple-pink sapphire is pretty close, but maybe with a touch less purple.

No, the real deal will be very bright. You just haven't found a good one yet.

Here are posts with some examples

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-us-your-mahenge-spinels.138168/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jedi-spinels-show-and-tell.238284/

I think finewatergems has said something in the past about the studio lighting setting off the flourescence in his stones -- so you would be expecting some variation between pictures.

You could try ivy new york. As you get pickier about the colour the price will rise.

Send the ones from yvonne back -- they're definitely not the right stones for you.

 

[voce]

I've only seen pink spinels on camera, as I have only bought red spinel. But, it could be that it appears better on camera, just like my teal sapphire from Precision Gem. I see way more gray in person than what the camera is able to capture. And I believe that when it comes to colors that don't really exist like pink, each person's experience could be different, as there are individual variations in the threshold rods and cones get activated

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I've only seen pink spinels on camera, as I have only bought red spinel. But, it could be that it appears better on camera, just like my teal sapphire from Precision Gem. I see way more gray in person than what the camera is able to capture. And I believe that when it comes to colors that don't really exist like pink, each person's experience could be different, as there are individual variations in the threshold rods and cones get activated

OMG me and baby pink. I see purple. I see purple everywhere and I do not want to see purple!!!!! Don't get me wrong I have a bright pink sapphire that can shift magenta in some lights that I adore but I am so over seeing pinky purple baby pink stones on my quest for more pinks.

So I gave up and got a bright reddish pink instead. It looks a bit red in dodgy lighting but better red than purple.

 

[Rubybrick]

Thanks guys, I agree that spinels of the ideal color will be rare and out of budget. I won’t be chasing that unicorn so to speak...

How does this sapphire above look to you guys in terms of cut? It’s a bit above budget but also larger than what I want (although I won’t mind the size if within my budget, within 5k for gem) but it is the color I am after.

This smaller one I also like, but I think the shape is too oblong... and I don’t mind heated sapphires so not really want to pay premium for an I heated gem...

No, some Mahenge spinels look like fine rubies. Unfortunately, much of the highly saturated material is in the hands of collectors. I hear what is coming out of the mines these days is subpar, or it could be the better material is already spoken for by the Asian gem market. One Mahenge dealer told me he can no longer get fine material,

No, the real deal will be very bright. You just haven't found a good one yet.

Here are posts with some examples

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-us-your-mahenge-spinels.138168/

 

[T L]

I’m not crazy about either sapphire to be honest. The first one has a wonky cut, included, and an offset cutlet. The second looks like a pale rhodolite, which is a great option if you’re on a budget. I love rhodolites.

 

[T L]

I’m not crazy about either sapphire to be honest. The first one has a wonky cut, included, and an offset cutlet. The second looks like a pale rhodolite, which is a great option if you’re on a budget. I love rhodolites.

 

[qubitasaurus]

I have a feeling both Roger Dery and concave gems have sapphires in the intense colour you are looking for. It may be worth inquiring.

Caveat emptor nothing with this colour will be cheap

https://rogerdery.com/gems/?page=/product/1801013

http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=7825

(there are a few more on both sites, I just grabbed the first ones I could. In that sense I do not expect a really hot pink sapphire to be any cheaper than a mahenge spinel with good colour.)

 

[T L]

I would request a picture on a white or much lighter background for the concave cut one.