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Certainly can't speak for all CBIs, but my custom cut N faces up quite white. My guess is that people would think it's J/K color, or maybe L, but certainly not N.
The story of my ring's grading issue
- Thread starter Julyisjuly
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Colour is graded table side down, looking from the side. This is consistent across all labs for loose diamonds. There are labs who attempt to “grade” mounted stones.
My wife has a BGD Blue AGS K and face up, it appears as white as her GIA G. In natural sunlight however, we find that at times, it faces up whiter than the GIA G.
Looking from the side however, we do notice a tiny bit of tint. However, both she and I are not that colour sensitive.
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It is not a marketing hype. It is somewhat true. However, the statement also applies to any decently cut stone (not just CBI or superideal cut diamonds) without significantly light leakage, under a right lighting condition.
I will quote @Karl_K
"Diamond performance is dependent on lighting, there is no getting around that.
My mantra for 15 years on here is that the top 5 things affecting diamond performance/looks are:
Lighting
Lighting
Lighting
Lighting
Cut.
"
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I do not like the "faces up like" marketing.
The color grade of a d-z diamond is a material grade not a face up appearance grade.
The best any diamond can face up is as well as that material of that color can face up.
That is faces up like a higher color grade is mixing different criteria for marketing.
The better the cut the less often you see the body color is a true statement.
The color grade of a d-z diamond is a material grade not a face up appearance grade.
The best any diamond can face up is as well as that material of that color can face up.
That is faces up like a higher color grade is mixing different criteria for marketing.
The better the cut the less often you see the body color is a true statement.
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Thks for all the replies.
I think the misconception on HP diamonds site was when they show the AGS standards vs their own CBI criteria giving the impression it is ‘whiter’ in the face up position
But regardless of cut, CBI diamonds that are graded H, would still be a AGS graded H color and that they do not have stricter criteria than AGS...
Hope I’m making sense. Thks agaib. Learning heaps
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You may want to check out my post on this thread. CBI will challenge AGS if a stone comes back at a higher color than they think it should be. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-search-take-2.244742/page-2#post-4444191
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My theory based on some research is that any super ideal will face up whiter than others. Why? Super-ideals are cut to have a lot of fire (small pinpoints of light). This causes your pupils to contract. When your pupils are contracted, color discrimination is very poor. So, a range of colors become one color.
A good example is going out to a garden on a sunny day. You pick a handful of flowers that are all the same color. When you go inside and your eyes adjust, you realize that the colors you thought were all purple...vary in shades from purple to pink. Some variation in intensity too. Some are less intense than others. A cool feature of the human eye.
Now, if we were birds, we'd be able to see more UV and that would let us see flour under less intense light. That would be fun.
A good example is going out to a garden on a sunny day. You pick a handful of flowers that are all the same color. When you go inside and your eyes adjust, you realize that the colors you thought were all purple...vary in shades from purple to pink. Some variation in intensity too. Some are less intense than others. A cool feature of the human eye.
Now, if we were birds, we'd be able to see more UV and that would let us see flour under less intense light. That would be fun.
Thks for the link.
As grading is subjective, and from this thread we know outliners occur. All there is at CBI is that there is an extra pair of eyes to make sure the diamond is correctly graded.
I guess it’s different to saying CBI intentionally grade down all their diamonds as they have a tighter criteria (which is where I got the misconception from their chart on Hp diamonds site)
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We are getting off topic a bit but....
While eyesight and brain interpretation do play a big role in the amount of color you see which varies person to person.
You cant take physics out of the equation.
The more material of any given color that the light travels through the more tint it picks up.
Physics says a well cut 60-60 diamond of a 40.8 pavilion and a 33.5 crown will pick up less color than any super-ideal near tolk diamond because of shorter light paths when cut from the same material.
By the same token there is a cliff at ~41.4 pavilion where light paths get longer and they pick up more color .when cut from the same material.
By the same token a crushed ice radiant with super long light paths will pick up even more when cut from the same material. Which is why they are used for fancy color diamonds.
edit see above for a clarification
While eyesight and brain interpretation do play a big role in the amount of color you see which varies person to person.
You cant take physics out of the equation.
The more material of any given color that the light travels through the more tint it picks up.
Physics says a well cut 60-60 diamond of a 40.8 pavilion and a 33.5 crown will pick up less color than any super-ideal near tolk diamond because of shorter light paths when cut from the same material.
By the same token there is a cliff at ~41.4 pavilion where light paths get longer and they pick up more color .when cut from the same material.
By the same token a crushed ice radiant with super long light paths will pick up even more when cut from the same material. Which is why they are used for fancy color diamonds.
edit see above for a clarification
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Dmndsr4evr11
Brilliant_Rock
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This is a very interesting thread I’ve been following. The picture definitely does not look like it’s a G colored diamond but sometimes it’s hard to judge based on pictures.
I had an I color VS2 premium select that I thought looked very white. I then upgraded in size but lowered the color to a J VS2 expert selection and was very happy with it until I’ve noticed some tint in certain lighting that started to bother me. So, I recently decided to upgrade to an H of the same size and clarity VS2 and upgraded the cut with ACA too. I was told it’s a solid H but I do see some warmth to it so I wonder if it’s truly an I color. It is definitely very sparkly and brilliant. I feel that my smaller I color was whiter though and was told it was closer to an H when I bought it back then but I still feel it’s whiter than my new H. It’s a difference of a half carat with difference of 20% in diameter. I understand that the larger the stone the more body color it will absorb. I just got the new stone on Saturday already set in my old setting and I’m sort of on the fence about it. It is indeed hard to judge with just pictures and have to trust your agent as you’re not seeing the diamond in person. In the end, it really is a personal choice. I didn’t realize I was this color sensitive until recently.
I was looking at several G stones too and I think this stone was one of them. In some of the G pics, they look like they’re a little warmer in color and I remember asking the agent I work with if they’re more towards the H color. Edit: I’m sorry I just looked at the G I was more interested in and it was the 1.904. Face up I was told it’s hard to discern between the H I bought and this G. Face down it’s slightly noticeable.
I hope the OP found a stone he and his wife love during their trip in to WF today.
Sorry to hijack this post but it’s relevant to what I’m debating about now with my new H that seems to be more like an I.
I had an I color VS2 premium select that I thought looked very white. I then upgraded in size but lowered the color to a J VS2 expert selection and was very happy with it until I’ve noticed some tint in certain lighting that started to bother me. So, I recently decided to upgrade to an H of the same size and clarity VS2 and upgraded the cut with ACA too. I was told it’s a solid H but I do see some warmth to it so I wonder if it’s truly an I color. It is definitely very sparkly and brilliant. I feel that my smaller I color was whiter though and was told it was closer to an H when I bought it back then but I still feel it’s whiter than my new H. It’s a difference of a half carat with difference of 20% in diameter. I understand that the larger the stone the more body color it will absorb. I just got the new stone on Saturday already set in my old setting and I’m sort of on the fence about it. It is indeed hard to judge with just pictures and have to trust your agent as you’re not seeing the diamond in person. In the end, it really is a personal choice. I didn’t realize I was this color sensitive until recently.
I was looking at several G stones too and I think this stone was one of them. In some of the G pics, they look like they’re a little warmer in color and I remember asking the agent I work with if they’re more towards the H color. Edit: I’m sorry I just looked at the G I was more interested in and it was the 1.904. Face up I was told it’s hard to discern between the H I bought and this G. Face down it’s slightly noticeable.
I hope the OP found a stone he and his wife love during their trip in to WF today.
Sorry to hijack this post but it’s relevant to what I’m debating about now with my new H that seems to be more like an I.
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This is also why my recommendation is to visit WF, allow them to choose several Super Ideals of similar specs, and line them up, table down, to give a fair demonstration.
Comparing smaller, clustered, mounted stones of varied color grades to a single, loose stone with a certed color grade of G is ludicrous.
The Tiffany cluster ring is not an accurate nor fair comparison, based upon physics, alone.
Thank you, @Karl_K.
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Your Welcome, be sure and read my clarification its important.
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Hopefully, OP went to WF, and found a solution....
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I was able to see warmth in my GIA H.
Dmndsr4evr11
Brilliant_Rock
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Thank you, wewechew. May I ask what size/carat your GIA H is? My white I color was a premium select 1.37 carat - 7.20mm diameter. I don’t have the stone anymore as I’ve traded it up but I remember it being whiter than my current H which is 7.91mm and a better cut as it’s ACA. Definitely is more sparkly and brilliant though but also definitely not as white. Thanks!
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It was .9ct (6.2mm). GIA XXX below 2 HCA and had medium fluorescence.
No comment on your previous I being whiter, but I wanted to let you know that it is possible to see warmth in an H.
Dmndsr4evr11
Brilliant_Rock
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Thanks, wewechew.
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Just a note. Seeing warmth is biological. It is about your ability to see color. It varies greatly from individual to individual...even given the same materials, lighting and all other factors. Eyeballs simply vary in this. Add to that @Karl_K and my observations and you get quite a mix of seeing ability.
But, being bothered by color is not biological. That is purely social and preference. If you associated color with lesser value or imperfection, then you want to find something that is colorless to your eyes.
But, being bothered by color is not biological. That is purely social and preference. If you associated color with lesser value or imperfection, then you want to find something that is colorless to your eyes.
I bet you can! I can grade pretty reliably to GIA standards and "see" all the colors. Maybe you are just more color acute than others. I can see color in my G, but it does not bother me. I like individuality.
Dmndsr4evr11
Brilliant_Rock
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Thanks, rockysalamander! I didn’t realize I’ve become more color sensitive. I’ll have to see how I feel about it after wearing it a little longer. The sparkle and brilliance is amazing though. Distracting while driving and even while trying to work
. I’m sorry again to OP for hijacking his post. I think everyone is anxiously awaiting the outcome of his trip to WF today. Hope it all works out for him and his wife.
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kmoro
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TL "weigh in" at 171.5 lbs.
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kmoro
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I would like to add that, disliking color is not just about associating it with imperfection. Some people actually don’t like tint. Like me - I think it makes the diamond look like ... pee. Sorry, but you made me say it. I feel almost bullied when it comes to color. Everyone saying oh no you can’t see it face up, it gives character, it’s still white .... no ... I can see tint face up in a .45 GIA G stud, and while I think it is still beaturiful, I prefer the iciest white that my eyes can see. If you love tint in a diamond - go for it! To each their own.
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I'm not sure how much TL is allowed to stay beyond what he's already said about this stone. Just due to forum rules.
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What are you specifically waiting for? I’m so confused.
@Texas Leaguer has responded several times....
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