The Surge and Beyond

[poptart]

Date: 1/17/2007 12:46:26 AM
Author: Officers girl

Date: 1/17/2007 12:26:55 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 1/17/2007 12:04:28 AM
Author: Officers girl
On the draft note I pray it doesnt come back!! My Fiancee has done three tours to the middle east and the lack of training and appropriate gear given to the soldiers is astonishing!! Adding more people with less training will just be a whole nother mess that would bother most military families as I wouldnt want my soldier backed by someone forced to be there.

Eeek! Three tours, that has to be horrible. I agree with what you said, too. If the draft came back I think it would be really unsafe for everyone because the majority of those drafted would not want to be there and would be looking for just about any way to get out (I know I would). That being said, it just makes me wonder why, once you sign that military contract, is it SO hard (read impossible) to get OUT of the military until your time is up? People seem to think that if you sign, it means you want to be there, when really that isn''t always the case. It would seem that the military would be concerned with keep troops happy as well, because happy troops do better work.

*M*

There are actually lots of ways to get out only they all involve a dishonorable discharge. We have seen people do drugs, rape and one assault someone into a coma just to make sure they didnt have to go to iraq. The 101st airborne (We are at Ft. Campbell) Are gearing back up to deploy and you are already starting to see this happening. I realize the military will never start allowing people out of there contracts because retention is already low enough. I only wish that people would really weight the decision to join.

Yes, we have seen the drug thing, bad way to go. Rape, now that''s just unspeakable. It''s just comical to me (in a dark, completely NOT funny way), that they rarely even discharge for medical reasons. My DH is in the Navy and he''s gone deaf in one ear from his line of work. They''ve done countless medical tests etc., and he took his separation leave last August, and he''s STILL in the Navy. Now granted, deafness is not nearly as bad as what most troops have to deal with, but it''s the only viable story I have. Anyway, his discharge papers are just sitting their until they feel in their good graces to let him sign them and end this fiasco. It''s just very frustrating for us, as well as for any troops that regret their decision to join. I understand the retention issue, but a bunch of angry men with guns who want to go home... sounds dangerous to me. Of course, my opinion is very badly tainted, but nonetheless. I guess I''m not a military minded type of gal!

*M*

 

[Officers girl]

Date: 1/17/2007 1:10:50 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 1/17/2007 12:46:26 AM
Author: Officers girl

Date: 1/17/2007 12:26:55 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 1/17/2007 12:04:28 AM
Author: Officers girl
On the draft note I pray it doesnt come back!! My Fiancee has done three tours to the middle east and the lack of training and appropriate gear given to the soldiers is astonishing!! Adding more people with less training will just be a whole nother mess that would bother most military families as I wouldnt want my soldier backed by someone forced to be there.

Eeek! Three tours, that has to be horrible. I agree with what you said, too. If the draft came back I think it would be really unsafe for everyone because the majority of those drafted would not want to be there and would be looking for just about any way to get out (I know I would). That being said, it just makes me wonder why, once you sign that military contract, is it SO hard (read impossible) to get OUT of the military until your time is up? People seem to think that if you sign, it means you want to be there, when really that isn''t always the case. It would seem that the military would be concerned with keep troops happy as well, because happy troops do better work.

*M*

There are actually lots of ways to get out only they all involve a dishonorable discharge. We have seen people do drugs, rape and one assault someone into a coma just to make sure they didnt have to go to iraq. The 101st airborne (We are at Ft. Campbell) Are gearing back up to deploy and you are already starting to see this happening. I realize the military will never start allowing people out of there contracts because retention is already low enough. I only wish that people would really weight the decision to join.

Yes, we have seen the drug thing, bad way to go. Rape, now that''s just unspeakable. It''s just comical to me (in a dark, completely NOT funny way), that they rarely even discharge for medical reasons. My DH is in the Navy and he''s gone deaf in one ear from his line of work. They''ve done countless medical tests etc., and he took his separation leave last August, and he''s STILL in the Navy. Now granted, deafness is not nearly as bad as what most troops have to deal with, but it''s the only viable story I have. Anyway, his discharge papers are just sitting their until they feel in their good graces to let him sign them and end this fiasco. It''s just very frustrating for us, as well as for any troops that regret their decision to join. I understand the retention issue, but a bunch of angry men with guns who want to go home... sounds dangerous to me. Of course, my opinion is very badly tainted, but nonetheless. I guess I''m not a military minded type of gal!

*M*

I hear you hun!!! And lets not forget how lax they are about Post traumatic stress disorder!! There are some people who have no business being in the army for valid medical reasons but their complaints often go unheard!! I had one friend whose husband was shot in Iraq they stiched him up in Germany and he was back in the sandbox two weeks after he came home and was suffering from PTSD so bad!!! It was so awful for thier family

I dont know how different it is in the Army but I have never seen anyone discharged for deafness or blindness!! They treat people like working dogs they would rather have maniacs in the service than lose anyone. Im not sure how the Navy is but hearing your hubbys case it must not be much better

In your husbands case I am so sorry!! I know you all must be frustrated to the max (frustration is a military specialty!!) Anyway not meaning to hijack but from one military girl to the other big hugs and hopes that you all get this taken care of soon!!

 

[poptart]

Date: 1/17/2007 1:20:48 AM
Author: Officers girl

Date: 1/17/2007 1:10:50 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 1/17/2007 12:46:26 AM
Author: Officers girl

Date: 1/17/2007 12:26:55 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 1/17/2007 12:04:28 AM
Author: Officers girl
On the draft note I pray it doesnt come back!! My Fiancee has done three tours to the middle east and the lack of training and appropriate gear given to the soldiers is astonishing!! Adding more people with less training will just be a whole nother mess that would bother most military families as I wouldnt want my soldier backed by someone forced to be there.

Eeek! Three tours, that has to be horrible. I agree with what you said, too. If the draft came back I think it would be really unsafe for everyone because the majority of those drafted would not want to be there and would be looking for just about any way to get out (I know I would). That being said, it just makes me wonder why, once you sign that military contract, is it SO hard (read impossible) to get OUT of the military until your time is up? People seem to think that if you sign, it means you want to be there, when really that isn''t always the case. It would seem that the military would be concerned with keep troops happy as well, because happy troops do better work.

*M*

There are actually lots of ways to get out only they all involve a dishonorable discharge. We have seen people do drugs, rape and one assault someone into a coma just to make sure they didnt have to go to iraq. The 101st airborne (We are at Ft. Campbell) Are gearing back up to deploy and you are already starting to see this happening. I realize the military will never start allowing people out of there contracts because retention is already low enough. I only wish that people would really weight the decision to join.

Yes, we have seen the drug thing, bad way to go. Rape, now that''s just unspeakable. It''s just comical to me (in a dark, completely NOT funny way), that they rarely even discharge for medical reasons. My DH is in the Navy and he''s gone deaf in one ear from his line of work. They''ve done countless medical tests etc., and he took his separation leave last August, and he''s STILL in the Navy. Now granted, deafness is not nearly as bad as what most troops have to deal with, but it''s the only viable story I have. Anyway, his discharge papers are just sitting their until they feel in their good graces to let him sign them and end this fiasco. It''s just very frustrating for us, as well as for any troops that regret their decision to join. I understand the retention issue, but a bunch of angry men with guns who want to go home... sounds dangerous to me. Of course, my opinion is very badly tainted, but nonetheless. I guess I''m not a military minded type of gal!

*M*

I hear you hun!!! And lets not forget how lax they are about Post traumatic stress disorder!! There are some people who have no business being in the army for valid medical reasons but their complaints often go unheard!! I had one friend whose husband was shot in Iraq they stiched him up in Germany and he was back in the sandbox two weeks after he came home and was suffering from PTSD so bad!!! It was so awful for thier family

I dont know how different it is in the Army but I have never seen anyone discharged for deafness or blindness!! They treat people like working dogs they would rather have maniacs in the service than lose anyone. Im not sure how the Navy is but hearing your hubbys case it must not be much better

In your husbands case I am so sorry!! I know you all must be frustrated to the max (frustration is a military specialty!!) Anyway not meaning to hijack but from one military girl to the other big hugs and hopes that you all get this taken care of soon!!

See, I knew another military girl would get it! Thanks for the hugs, and big hugs to you, too for this deployment coming up. I hope he is kept safe and you are kept sane! I find my sanity wavering frequently

. The PTSD is certainly very looked over, as are all mental issues. Can your FI go to counseling? I mean, I know it is offered, but do they also offer it on deployment? It might be better to take precautions just in case you know? One thing DH''s Dr. said was to keep a journal (annoying but it helps). DH has situational depression which isn''t nearly as bad (which he seems to get, according to the psychologist... when he''s on the SHIP, imagine that!). So anyway, a journal of sorts might be something your FI wants to think about, although he probably has his own way of dealing with everything. I''m sorry your FI will be leaving though, and hope that he comes home soon! Thanks for the well wishes, they go out to you, too!

*M*

 

[Officers girl]

I think they have I think they are called like combat stress something or others while they are over there but very few guys take advantage of it sadly. I doubt it helps though Ive seen to many husbands come back so changed even mine. The Army here at Ft Campbell atleast has shown time and time again that they dont consider PTSD a serious problem.

I was thinking about what you said earlier about angry men with guns is bad and you are so right!! There are so many things the military could try doing to make things better. FI was gone twelve months each deployment

It was awful!! We dont have children but it was terrible the first time and now facing the fourth I feel ugh just angry!! Recently the sect of the army decided to keep deployments twelve months instead of shortening to them 7. Why?? It really seems that the military gets railroaded over and over its just little stupid stuff they could try and improve but all they want to improve is the bottom line so no wonder they cant recruit anybody....its so frustrating

And right there the situational depression and the deafness should be enough to allow your husband the choice to go but look how they are doing!!! I mean how obvious a way to improve things!!! I cant think about it two much or I will explode lol Thanks for the well wishes girl I need them

 

[rainbowtrout]

I took me a long time to reach all-out anger with the administration and this latest news has just pushed it over the edge. How DARE he throw good money after bad, and let more of our people die for nothing.

I read an article featuring the opinions of some windows on the day the death toll passed 3,000 soldiers, and one said "We can''t pull out because then my husband will have died in vain." I''m sorry, but he didn''t die in vain--he died serving his country, which is his duty and a great honor. But his death didn''t help achieve freedom in Iraq, and letting one more soldier die to do that doesn''t make his sacrifice somehow more justified.

Many of the members in Congress don''t even know the differance between a Sunni and a Shiite, so how can we ever have expected this war to be run well?

A lot of Marines come through my school in Morocco to learn Arabic and talking to them was very enlightening. We WILL have to reinstate a draft if we go into Iran because we are so drastically short of troops, people are on their 4th tours! And one of the reasons travesties like the rape/murder cases and Abu Gharib happen is that National Guardsmen with NO training and little education are staffing those facilites.

One of the Marines, call him Cpt B., said that he thought we needed to withdraw but from "a position of power,"--spin it politically to look like we accomplished what we came there to do--overthrow Saddam and set up a government.

On the other hand, the group here''s opinion was that IF we pull out too quickly, the Iraqi government will collapse completely into total anarchy. On the other hand, there seems to be no way for us to unite the different factions unless we stay long enough that they all hate us worse than they hate each other.

Also, I knew intellectually that we were sending very young men (22-26) over there, but meeting this group of officers, many of whom were the brightest and best we have to offer, just breaks the heart. If I felt it was for a reason it would be different. But after a lot of thought, I just don''t.

 

[movie zombie]

from the official report of the Iraq Study Group:

" [T]he Iraqi people have a democratically elected government that is broadly representative of Iraq's population, yet the government is not adequately advancing national reconciliation, providing basic security, or deliverying essential services. The level of violence is high and growing. There is great suffering, and the daiily lives of many Iraqis show little or no improvement. Pessismism is pervasive....[and] the ability of the United States to influence events within Iraq is diminishing."

and from THE WASHINGTON SPECTATOR, January 1, 2007 in an article written by Dilip Hiro, ".....has overlooked a monumentally important fact of recent history: The presence of non-Muslim forces in a Muslim country inevitably engenders a jihadist movement among the occupied Muslims and their co-regionists abroad. This was the case with the Soviet troops in Afghanistan in the 1980s. And, in the succeeding decade, it was the continued presence of the American Forces in Saudi Arabia long after the U.S.-led Coalition forces had expelled the Iraqis from Kuwait in March 1991 that alienated Osama bin Laden, then an integral part of the super-affluent elite of the Saudi kingdom, and set him on the path of rebellion and anti-American terrorism and gave birth Al Qaeda.'

nothing happens in a vacuum. there are consequences for actions that often are not felt until many years down the road. but, again, Iraq is not about democracy and freedom: it is about US dominiation of oil rich areas.

but again nothing happens in a vacuum: China is now actively in this war for oil resources and views Darfur merely as an oil field without regard for the population and hence won't back real investigations of genocide by the UN. and now we've got our military actively involved there too.

however, this is far afield from iraq and the surge plan which is the original topic of this thread.

the draft is necessary and everyone is trying to avoid it. more troops are needed in afganistan per the news this morning. our troops are tired and stretched beyond belief. while it is political suicide, its going to be necessary. and the sooner it is done the sooner our troops already in the field will get some much needed relief. a side effect of the draft will also be that this nation will finally have to realizse what our administration [and past administrations] have committed us to. it is only when the nation as a whole has to make a sacrifice that we may actually have a change. it is unfair to ask and expect current troops to carry the entire burden of this so-called war on terrorism and involvement in Iraq's civil war.


movie zombie

 

[strmrdr]

only good thing is that its good practice for the upcoming American civil war2

 

[rainbowtrout]

*cough*

Widows, not windows. Sorry.

 

[poptart]

I hate that Bush is sending more troops in, but I think the thing that makes it worse is that it feels like a hopeless and helpless situation. Congress can do little to nothing to stop him, just like the Senate and the House. As for the people of the US, we have already told him what the majority thought and he did something completely opposite. He didn''t listen to ANYTHING the Iraqi Study Group said, just because they didn''t return with the answers he wanted. It just disgusts me. I guess the problem we have to deal with now is trying to figure out is there anything we can do about it?

*M*

 

[poptart]

Date: 1/17/2007 1:51:48 AM
Author: Officers girl
I think they have I think they are called like combat stress something or others while they are over there but very few guys take advantage of it sadly. I doubt it helps though Ive seen to many husbands come back so changed even mine. The Army here at Ft Campbell atleast has shown time and time again that they dont consider PTSD a serious problem.

I was thinking about what you said earlier about angry men with guns is bad and you are so right!! There are so many things the military could try doing to make things better. FI was gone twelve months each deployment

It was awful!! We dont have children but it was terrible the first time and now facing the fourth I feel ugh just angry!! Recently the sect of the army decided to keep deployments twelve months instead of shortening to them 7. Why?? It really seems that the military gets railroaded over and over its just little stupid stuff they could try and improve but all they want to improve is the bottom line so no wonder they cant recruit anybody....its so frustrating

And right there the situational depression and the deafness should be enough to allow your husband the choice to go but look how they are doing!!! I mean how obvious a way to improve things!!! I cant think about it two much or I will explode lol Thanks for the well wishes girl I need them

Well, whatever happens, I hope that your FI (or are you married?) is able to take advantage of whatever counseling they offer. So he is going to be gone for another 12 months? I don''t know how you stand it. Is communication good enough that you can at least hear from him every few days? DH will have been gone 7 months when he comes back in May, which is when they are supposed to discharge him.

They keep the tours so long just because we are spread too thin. It''s absolutely disgusting and treating troops like this is just unacceptable. I''ve heard of Marines that actually get addicted to the violence, and have a need to go back and fight... Not sure how that happens but one of my professors had a friend like this. Anyway, I hope you are able to send your DH (noticed how confused I am, I just keep going back and forth!) lots of packages at least, because I know that helps. How long does he have left in the Army? It would seem like his time should be up now if he is going on his fourth tour, and he could be discharged. I don''t know how it works in the Army, though.

*M*

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/17/2007 11:59:09 AM
Author: poptart
It would seem like his time should be up now if he is going on his fourth tour, and he could be discharged. I don''t know how it works in the Army, though.

Don''t get me started! I am very angered that we are always ready to drop bombs on innocent people (this time it was innocent Iraqis), but we never have money to support our own soldiers, either in battle or at home when they need medical treatment. It was outrageous that troops had to buy their own body armor in Iraq. It is outrageous that men with health problems cannot get discharges...and I hate to prophesy it but...it will be outrageous when the veterans of the war in Iraq cannot get adequate medical treatment after the war. The VA is just not the best provider of health care. One has to wait ages to be seen for anything and certain things just do not get addressed. The right wing cries out, "Support our troops!" as they slash the VA budget. Who do they think uses the VA? Hint: it stands for Veterans Administration. That means soldiers, sailors, airmen and women, marines, coast guard, merchant marines, people who served in the armed forces. Our troops. Right?

PS-Did I miss any branches of the service?

 

[poptart]

Date: 1/17/2007 2:31:24 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 1/17/2007 11:59:09 AM
Author: poptart
It would seem like his time should be up now if he is going on his fourth tour, and he could be discharged. I don''t know how it works in the Army, though.

Don''t get me started! I am very angered that we are always ready to drop bombs on innocent people (this time it was innocent Iraqis), but we never have money to support our own soldiers, either in battle or at home when they need medical treatment. It was outrageous that troops had to buy their own body armor in Iraq. It is outrageous that men with health problems cannot get discharges...and I hate to prophesy it but...it will be outrageous when the veterans of the war in Iraq cannot get adequate medical treatment after the war. The VA is just not the best provider of health care. One has to wait ages to be seen for anything and certain things just do not get addressed. The right wing cries out, ''Support our troops!'' as they slash the VA budget. Who do they think uses the VA? Hint: it stands for Veterans Administration. That means soldiers, sailors, airmen and women, marines, coast guard, merchant marines, people who served in the armed forces. Our troops. Right?

PS-Did I miss any branches of the service?

The Veteran''s Administration, honestly, is a joke. My friend''s father was a veteran of the Vietnam War (I think), and had his kneecap blown off so he had to go through rehab and couldn''t walk for a few months, AND he went almost completely deaf from the gunning noises and what not. He gets a check in the mail every month for like 100 dollars. That''s all. The other thing that really gets me is that deafness and hearing loss is the largest medical problem throughout the military, in ALL services, and yet veterans do not get paid what they should. Nor do they get proper medical assistance when needed. My DH has only ever passed ONE flight deck physical for his hearing. And he''s been in for two years. We''ve been waiting almost a year for this discharge to go through, as well. And another problem is that sailors, soldiers, marines, etc. do not KNOW how the discharges work. My husband''s command has pretty much promised him medical benefits, compensation, and the like, but will he get most of that? No. Because they VA has to APPROVE it, and that''s nearly impossible. It really does disgust me. Sorry to ramble, it''s just that last year was such a heart wrenching year going through all this muck for absolutely nothing, and I''m afraid of what is going to happen this year.

*M*

 

[AGBF]

...and in case anyone thinks our troops at their present level are not yet stretched too thin, read what the new Secretary of Defense wants to do in Afghanistan.


KABUL, Afghanistan -- "Concerned by Taliban gains and worried about more violence, U.S. military commanders have recommended that more U.S. troops come to Afghanistan, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told reporters Wednesday.

He did not say how many troops were requested. But other military officials have suggested that an additional 1,000 or 1,200 troops would help make up the shortfall in Afghanistan, especially considering the anticipated spring offensive."


by Kim Barker
Tribune foreign correspondent
Published January 17, 2007, 5:13 PM CST


Deborah

 

[Officers girl]

Date: 1/17/2007 11:59:09 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 1/17/2007 1:51:48 AM
Author: Officers girl
I think they have I think they are called like combat stress something or others while they are over there but very few guys take advantage of it sadly. I doubt it helps though Ive seen to many husbands come back so changed even mine. The Army here at Ft Campbell atleast has shown time and time again that they dont consider PTSD a serious problem.

I was thinking about what you said earlier about angry men with guns is bad and you are so right!! There are so many things the military could try doing to make things better. FI was gone twelve months each deployment

It was awful!! We dont have children but it was terrible the first time and now facing the fourth I feel ugh just angry!! Recently the sect of the army decided to keep deployments twelve months instead of shortening to them 7. Why?? It really seems that the military gets railroaded over and over its just little stupid stuff they could try and improve but all they want to improve is the bottom line so no wonder they cant recruit anybody....its so frustrating

And right there the situational depression and the deafness should be enough to allow your husband the choice to go but look how they are doing!!! I mean how obvious a way to improve things!!! I cant think about it two much or I will explode lol Thanks for the well wishes girl I need them

Well, whatever happens, I hope that your FI (or are you married?) is able to take advantage of whatever counseling they offer. So he is going to be gone for another 12 months? I don''t know how you stand it. Is communication good enough that you can at least hear from him every few days? DH will have been gone 7 months when he comes back in May, which is when they are supposed to discharge him.

They keep the tours so long just because we are spread too thin. It''s absolutely disgusting and treating troops like this is just unacceptable. I''ve heard of Marines that actually get addicted to the violence, and have a need to go back and fight... Not sure how that happens but one of my professors had a friend like this. Anyway, I hope you are able to send your DH (noticed how confused I am, I just keep going back and forth!) lots of packages at least, because I know that helps. How long does he have left in the Army? It would seem like his time should be up now if he is going on his fourth tour, and he could be discharged. I don''t know how it works in the Army, though.

*M*

I call him my hubby usually but legally we are not married sorry to be so loopy. Were doing the twenty years so I mean were pretty settled on the 8 months home twelve months gone cycle that seems to be what most of ft campbell is going through right now. Communication is good sometimes and sometimes not when he was in Fallujah I didnt hear from him for right at a month and a few weeks the first tour they were some of the first on the ground so there was nearly no communication at all. Now it just depends on where he is I just always try to remember no news is good news

.
its sad but I mean its what he loves and no matter how awful it is to be left home missing him I would never ask him to give it up for me.

As far as the VA it is really failing its intended purpose honestly I dont even know what we can do at this point Bush could care less about the american public it really seems he is on the brink of just declaring himself king and taking over he has made it clear that voting does no good so I dont really know what to do at this point

 

[poptart]

Well, Officersgirl, if he is doing something he loves then at least that helps you in knowing that he is happy. DH absolutely hates his job, the Navy in general, and a lot of the people he has to work with. And it's hard to see him suffer in a job that he can't stand and can't get out of. He's been really good on this cruise by accepting that he HAS to do this, since he can't jump ship, and that we'll try again to get those papers signed when he gets back.

And at least the 20 years for your DH will allow him good retirement money and the like. I hope that you are able to hear from him again soon, and it sucks but the mantra is true "no news is good news" (if I had a penny for every time I was told that). Hopefully his tour won't be as long as it's expected to be.

I really think the only thing that is going to fix all of this (if we CAN fix it at this point), is when we have a new President in office. So I guess we will just have to wait for two years or so before things begin to change. I did, however, hear today that Senate was still trying to decide on the troop funding issue, and Hillary Clinton proposed a new Iraq plan. It's not as much as I would like them to do, but the fact that they are having actual press conferences on these plans is a small step in the right direction, and maybe they can come to some type of consensus. But I guess Bush would still have to agree with these plans, wouldn't he?

ETA: I would like to see what would happen if the administration DID reenstate the draft. It would just open a HUGE can of worms, IMO.


*M*

 

[ImpatientOne]

Date: 1/16/2007 1:24:52 PM
Author: poptart
I was also under the impression that the troops he is sending over are people that were already scheduled to go this year, and Bush is just pushing up their deployment date as well as extending the tour of troops that are already over there. Is this true? Sometimes the news is so misleading...

*M*

That's my understanding as well, but with the info posted earlier about more troops for Afghanistan, who knows. My fiance is supposed to go back (to Iraq) some time this summer for his 2nd tour. He told me the other day that they have started pushing up a lot of deployments, but his was not affected yet. They are beginning to train National Guardsmen to take over their jobs while they are gone and it seems like they are all of a sudden doing a whole lot more field training, too.

As for the draft, well, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I do feel that it is a "civic duty" and perhaps we should do as other countries and mandate our young people serve in some capacity. I am also the mother of a former Marine who served in Iraq and is currently attempting to re-enlist. I am not so sure I want someone who was forced to be there via a draft who doesn't really want to be there to be fighting along side my husband or son

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 1/17/2007 9:18:08 PM
Author: ImpatientOne

Date: 1/16/2007 1:24:52 PM
Author: poptart
I was also under the impression that the troops he is sending over are people that were already scheduled to go this year, and Bush is just pushing up their deployment date as well as extending the tour of troops that are already over there. Is this true? Sometimes the news is so misleading...

*M*

That''s my understanding as well, but with the info posted earlier about more troops for Afghanistan, who knows. My fiance is supposed to go back (to Iraq) some time this summer for his 2nd tour. He told me the other day that they have started pushing up a lot of deployments, but his was not affected yet. They are beginning to train National Guardsmen to take over their jobs while they are gone and it seems like they are all of a sudden doing a whole lot more field training, too.

As for the draft, well, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I do feel that it is a ''civic duty'' and perhaps we should do as other countries and mandate our young people serve in some capacity. I am also the mother of a former Marine who served in Iraq and is currently attempting to re-enlist. I am not so sure I want someone who was forced to be there via a draft who doesn''t really want to be there to be fighting along side my husband or son

it would be even better if there was no one there.....and if the draft is reinstated, i''m going to bet the troops will come home sooner for a variety of reasons.

movie zombie

 

[ImpatientOne]

Date: 1/17/2007 10:28:23 PM
Author: movie zombie

Date: 1/17/2007 9:18:08 PM
Author: ImpatientOne

Date: 1/16/2007 1:24:52 PM
Author: poptart
I was also under the impression that the troops he is sending over are people that were already scheduled to go this year, and Bush is just pushing up their deployment date as well as extending the tour of troops that are already over there. Is this true? Sometimes the news is so misleading...

*M*

That''s my understanding as well, but with the info posted earlier about more troops for Afghanistan, who knows. My fiance is supposed to go back (to Iraq) some time this summer for his 2nd tour. He told me the other day that they have started pushing up a lot of deployments, but his was not affected yet. They are beginning to train National Guardsmen to take over their jobs while they are gone and it seems like they are all of a sudden doing a whole lot more field training, too.

As for the draft, well, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I do feel that it is a ''civic duty'' and perhaps we should do as other countries and mandate our young people serve in some capacity. I am also the mother of a former Marine who served in Iraq and is currently attempting to re-enlist. I am not so sure I want someone who was forced to be there via a draft who doesn''t really want to be there to be fighting along side my husband or son

it would be even better if there was no one there.....and if the draft is reinstated, i''m going to bet the troops will come home sooner for a variety of reasons.

movie zombie

movie zombie, you''re probably right!!!

 

[poptart]

Well, I''m still going to hold out my juvenile hope that maybe the Senate can do something, because a draft is just a really NOT good idea!

*M*

 

[movie zombie]

more thoughts: had it been announced that more troops were being sent to make sure the troops already there get out safely i would have supported that idea.....had it been accompanied by a withdrawal date of no more than 6 months. i think a majority of americans would have supported that. any longer than 6 months would have given the administration the open door to stay entrenched and involved in their civil war.

movie zombiie

 

[AGBF]

The following is an excerpt from an article about more Congressional dissent with President Bush on his escalation of the war in Iraq. Senator John Warner of Virginia, one of the latest dissenters, came as quite a surprise to me.


"Three senators offered a new resolution today against President Bush’s Iraq policy, in which they declared their opposition to Mr. Bush’s plans to increase the American troop force there by 21,500.

The resolution, put forth by two Republicans and a Democrat on the eve of the president’s State of the Union speech, was another indicator of the flagging political support for Mr. Bush’s approach.

One sponsor, Senator John W. Warner, Republican of Virginia, said the measure is “not meant to be confrontational” but rather was an acceptance of the president’s invitation to come forward with alternative plans, if they have any.

Yet the senators’ tone suggested deep concern with the present course. Mr. Warner, who has just stepped down as chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he was alarmed at the prospect of American soldiers continuing to be caught in sectarian violence, “the origins of which sometimes go back thousands of years.”"

 

[strmrdr]

When are we going to learn soldiers are not cops.
They are for killing and destroying things not policing.
Let them kill all the bad guys then bring them home.
Take off the gloves and let them take em down hard.
Its what we should have done in the fist place then we wouldn''t have this mess today.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 1/31/2007 5:40:29 PM
Author: strmrdr
When are we going to learn soldiers are not cops.
They are for killing and destroying things not policing.
Let them kill all the bad guys then bring them home.
Take off the gloves and let them take em down hard.
Its what we should have done in the fist place then we wouldn''t have this mess today.

agreed....on the highlighted. heard a high up military person say they did their job and that reconstruction was never a soldiers'' job.

movie zombie

 

[poptart]

Did you all hear that Obama is presenting a bill for withdrawal of all troops by 2008? I am wondering how everything is going to go just because there isn''t a single candidate, Republican, Democrat, or otherwise who wants to inherit this war.

*M*

 

[ImpatientOne]

Yep, it should be interesting! I am anxiously awaiting to see how the things start unfolding as more candidates begin emerging. The next presidential election should be very interesting!