The tragic attacks in Norway

[partgypsy]

I happened to be on the internet late when this was breaking, and it literally made me feel physically ill. I think it especially affected me as both my children had finished their weeks at camp. camps are a place where kids do alot of growing, a place where they are challenged and inspired, in a safe environment. to send your kids to camp thinking this and then to learn they were targeted and massacred. Too horrible for words.

 

[AGBF]

This is a photo taken near the site of the bombing in Oslo.

Deb/AGBF

 

[monarch64]

Deb, thanks for posting that pic. Norway is such a peaceful and loving country. I am 1/4 Norwegian, my mother is 1/2, my maternal grandfather was 100%. I was fortunate enough to visit him a few times in WI before he died from lung cancer in the 1980's (I was in grade school then) and I have lots of pics of him plus his voice telling a story in Norwegian (I was there for the story and mom recorded it). He was a talented carpenter who built houses all over the Midwest and a very loving man. Thanks for letting me share that.

So. Kenny, you made the point that you feel like this tragedy will make Norway more closed in some ways, and I have to disagree with you. The people of Norway are not going to let this change their peaceful way of life. Many of my stateside relatives concur, and I just spoke at length with a customer in the store I work in (he was here for a conference) from Norway who reiterated the sentiment that Norway will continue to be an open and peaceful country, and PM Jens Stoltenberg also pledged that the country is still "an open society." (CNN)

I think I understand the point you were trying to make, but I do not accept it. Let's wait and see how things play out before jumping to unfounded conclusions, please?

 

[Imdanny]

So now elements of the American right including at least one famous personality on a major network are defending this cretin. Amazing.

 

[kenny]

So now elements of the American right including at least one famous personality on a major network are defending this cretin. Amazing.

Who?

 

[Amber St. Clare]

Yeah, I wanna know--WHO?????

 

[ksinger]

Well, I don't know who Danny was referring to, and I don't pay attention to talking heads of any stripe on TV or radio, but I did read online that Glenn Beck came in for some scathing Norwegian backlash after doing his usual innuendo crap and likening the political camp that those young people were attending to the "Hitler Youth".

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing."

The usual hypocritical/amnesiac crap, since apparently Beck's own 9/12 project has spun off a few genuine political "camps" for kids 8-12.

 

[Pandora II]

Well, I don't know who Danny was referring to, and I don't pay attention to talking heads of any stripe on TV or radio, but I did read online that Glenn Beck came in for some scathing Norwegian backlash after doing his usual innuendo crap and likening the political camp that those young people were attending to the "Hitler Youth".

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing."

The usual hypocritical/amnesiac crap, since apparently Beck's own 9/12 project has spun off a few genuine political "camps" for kids 8-12.

Wow!

Actually, summer camps are not common in Europe. The only ones I can think of are political ones.

My husband was President of the Young European Movement back in the mid-90's and they held camps all over Europe where different nationalities would come together to discuss the chances of a Federal Europe along with the usual sampling of the local poisons and outdoor activities. On the whole these camps are organised and funded by the participants rather than by an external organisation so not a lot of thought is given to things like security. This camp had more in the way of structure because it was affiliated to just one political party but even so it would not be organised in the same way that a summer camp in the USA would be.

The age of majority here is also 18 not 21 so legally most of the participants were adults.

I think Norway will change most in the plans they will now make for potential future incidents - I'm a little suprised that they couldn't have sent a sniper on a helicopter or similar - rather than in the general mindset of the people. In a way it's a good thing that the killer was taken alive as it will be possible to see that he is a complete nutter as opposed to rumour and guesswork.

I would guess he will be sent to a secure psychiatric unit a bit like 'Broadmoor' in the UK. In these cases, normal sentencing guidelines do not come into it as it's more a case of protecting society than punishing the individual. We have several people in Broadmoor who would probably only have got a 15 year sentence under normal guidelines, but there they can be held until they are deemed to be no longer a risk which in most cases means a whole life sentence.

 

[swimmer]

The Premier of Norway is vowing to keep Norway's open and democratic society exactly that way. What a tribute to these young people who were slain, for their nation to become more inclusive, more welcoming of immigrants in need, more tolerant of other beliefs and lifestyles, and more opposed to the death penalty and other measures that have irrefutably been found to not deter crime.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/world/europe/28norway.html?_r=1

I also attended political camps in Europe and the US as a youth and through college. Seeds of Peace seeks to bring together Israeli Jews and Palestinians in order to develop friendships and create a war-free future. We also made popsicle stick picture frames. This tragedy is going to shape Norwegian life for at least a generation, just as 9/11 continues to influence the US. While the US has simultaneously chosen paths of xenophobia and peace, we are a polyglot of cultures and differ greatly from the much smaller and more homogenous Norway. May we all learn from Norway's reaction to this horrific tragedy. Despite the actions of a Christian extremist, they are responding with love, hope, and charity.

 

[AGBF]

The Premier of Norway is vowing to keep Norway's open and democratic society exactly that way. What a tribute to these young people who were slain, for their nation to become more inclusive, more welcoming of immigrants in need, more tolerant of other beliefs and lifestyles, and more opposed to the death penalty and other measures that have irrefutably been found to not deter crime.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/world/europe/28norway.html?_r=1

I also attended political camps in Europe and the US as a youth and through college. Seeds of Peace seeks to bring together Israeli Jews and Palestinians in order to develop friendships and create a war-free future. We also made popsicle stick picture frames. This tragedy is going to shape Norwegian life for at least a generation, just as 9/11 continues to influence the US. While the US has simultaneously chosen paths of xenophobia and peace, we are a polyglot of cultures and differ greatly from the much smaller and more homogenous Norway. May we all learn from Norway's reaction to this horrific tragedy. Despite the actions of a Christian extremist, they are responding with love, hope, and charity.

As always, it is so wonderful to see you posting, swimmer.

Deb