these days...2 ct is the norm ?

[suchende]

These particular girls were friends of a friend so I don't know a lot about the situation. It was just a really odd conversation to be a part of, especially since my ring is nowhere near their standards! In my mind, it would be one thing if they were dating people who made enough that they wouldn't really feel the impact of a 2 carat ring. Still though, regardless of what their boyfriend makes, they shouldn't require him to spend a certain amount. These girls were not dating guys who earn more than 100k a year (judging by their job titles). The sense of entitlement along with the unrealistic expectations made for really disturbing dinner conversation.

I think its fine for a girl to contribute towards her own ring. I think its fine for a girl to have input and choose her own ring. I think its fine for a guy to buy a 2+ carat ring if he's comfortable with it. I just don't think its fair to expect a certain budget.

maybe they have no intention of marrying their boyfriends?

 

[Dancing Fire]

I think it depends on where you live. I'm in NYC and you see a huge range of sizes here in the city esp. depending on where you live. Moms at our school have what looks like 1ct up to 4-5ct. My sister lives on Long Island in a very affluent area and the rings there are what I consider huge..minimum 3ct

the avg in NYC is 2.68 ct...

 

[partgypsy]

It's funny I like looking at jewelry, really most people don't seem to be that much into jewelry, almost to the extent it's frowned upon. the diamond studs, wedding set, done (and no upgrades).
But sometimes I hit the jackpot; for example going to an American Dance Festival performance with reception beforehand, there were a number of ladies with really interesting jewelry, both earrings, rings, and necklaces. I think it was the combination of being around people with alot of disposable income who were also into/ support the arts.

Anyone else have places that are prime jewelry scoping spots?

 

[chemgirl]

These particular girls were friends of a friend so I don't know a lot about the situation. It was just a really odd conversation to be a part of, especially since my ring is nowhere near their standards! In my mind, it would be one thing if they were dating people who made enough that they wouldn't really feel the impact of a 2 carat ring. Still though, regardless of what their boyfriend makes, they shouldn't require him to spend a certain amount. These girls were not dating guys who earn more than 100k a year (judging by their job titles). The sense of entitlement along with the unrealistic expectations made for really disturbing dinner conversation.

I think its fine for a girl to contribute towards her own ring. I think its fine for a girl to have input and choose her own ring. I think its fine for a guy to buy a 2+ carat ring if he's comfortable with it. I just don't think its fair to expect a certain budget.

maybe they have no intention of marrying their boyfriends?

Hehe, maybe! If that's the case they need to get a move on finding new guys. The same night there was a conversation about how they would "just die" if they weren't married by thirty. The age range was 26 to 28 so tic toc!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yikes, I'm with yennyfire, 'expecting' a 2ct diamond? Maybe 'dreaming about' or 'hoping for'...

I also have to add: I was at a very big staff meeting yesterday with 40+ women and NOBODY had a stone that large. I'd actually wager a large amount of money that nobody even had a larger center stone than a 1/2 carat.

Now, that's in the midwest, in the middle of the state, not a large metro area, definitely not LA or NY, but I highly doubt that 2ct is the new 'normal' for a diamond engagement ring. It's allllllll relative. I love the huge diamonds I see on PS, but I know that I would feel uncomfortable with anything larger than 1.5ct (or, as wide as my 5.25 finger).

the avg in the midwest is .75 ct...

 

[TravelingGal]

With my good friends (meaning people I made friends with because I like them), my stone is right in line with theirs. Mine's 1.05, and theirs are 1.10 and 1 carat, with my BFF's being the biggest at 1.5

In my social circle, mine is the smallest, with the norm being that 1.5 is the minimum. Most have about 2+ and the largest in the group is about a 4 carat princess.

Really depends on the circle, I suppose.

 

[suchende]

Hehe, maybe! If that's the case they need to get a move on finding new guys. The same night there was a conversation about how they would "just die" if they weren't married by thirty. The age range was 26 to 28 so tic toc!

Hope springs eternal. A lot of my friends (24-2 seem to think they're going to be rich someday without any really clear plan to get there. Or think they'll end up marrying rich even though they keep dating the same sorts of waiter-musicians. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

 

[princesss]

Hehe, maybe! If that's the case they need to get a move on finding new guys. The same night there was a conversation about how they would "just die" if they weren't married by thirty. The age range was 26 to 28 so tic toc!

Hope springs eternal. A lot of my friends (24-2 seem to think they're going to be rich someday without any really clear plan to get there. Or think they'll end up marrying rich even though they keep dating the same sorts of waiter-musicians. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

Bahahahaha, sounds like my friends! Totally certain that they're going to get rich and marry rich men, but date the bouncers at clubs and guys with no ambition because they like the bad boys.

I can see a few of my friends demanding 2ct stones, and their guys giving in to it - somehow these girls make guys do whatever they want, whenever they want. It's a mystery to me how they do it. Personally, it drives me batty when they start talking like that - I'm in the practical, "we'll get what we can pay for in cash" mentality, but sometimes it's hard to watch them get all of this nice stuff, KWIM? I have to remind myself that debt doesn't look good on anybody, and there's no way in hell they're paying cash for things/paying for them on their own (and this is from them telling me this, not just making assumptions). But I can see where if I didn't have the parents I have and the group of friends I have (all but the two I'm thinking of are *very* practical), that kind of mindset could creep up on me pretty quickly.

 

[slg47]

I wonder if these girls just want big without caring about quality, or big AND high quality (or big AND brand name?)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of budget for the ring, when my FI and I were talking about rings I knew his salary and would not have been happy with the $500 walmart special. However, I certainly would have been more than happy with a smaller ring, because I want to be with him, not the rock.

 

[eleguin]

Like many have said, "norm" is completely dependant on location and the particular social circle. I am from NYC and growing up, I never really paid attention to diamond rings. I started dating my DH in college and after we'd been dating a couple years, I got a summer internship at a law firm. That was the first time I noticed diamond rings and by and far, they were gorgeous. They were also quite large, though at the time because I had never really paid attention to rings, I didn't know what carat size they were or that they were considered larger than average. I just assumed that they were the norm. I also didn't know how much diamonds cost.

Fast forward a few more years. I was just finishing up law school and we were discussing getting engaged. We were browsing through a jewelry store and he asked me what was my ideal ring. I pointed one out to him that was similar in size to most of the rings I saw on the women I'd worked with in the various law firms I'd interned at. It turned out to be around 2 ct, and that's when I got the sticker shock! I had no idea that a 2 ct would cost so much. I had thought in my mind maybe $10k at most, but it was well over $20k!

I've now been an attorney in NY for 5 years and we've been married for 4. I do think that the norm in our professional circle is around 2 carat. I don't think the women "expect" it though and I haven't met anyone with the kind of attitude that some others have mentioned. For those who are doing well career-wise and live comfortable lives, a 2 carat ring is not outrageous.

 

[Sizzle]

By the laws of statistics there has GOT to be one of these women of great expectations on Pricecope, come out come out whereever you are! I guess I get expectations to a certain extent. If you are fairly debt free, make good money and hang in a social circle where everyone has a 2ct ring, you would kind of expect that your ring would be similar and so would most of your friends.. especially if you let it be known you're a jewelry girl. Please believe the woman are most likely not sitting and waiting. They are subtly or not so subtly advocating for what they want. And if it's a true expectation, this tactic has worked for them in the past so kudos to them for getting what they want!

 

[sba771]

I think it depends on where you live. I'm in NYC and you see a huge range of sizes here in the city esp. depending on where you live. Moms at our school have what looks like 1ct up to 4-5ct. My sister lives on Long Island in a very affluent area and the rings there are what I consider huge..minimum 3ct

OMG so true! I just moved to LI and I work at an affluent nursery school. If you can look past the designer bags you see huge rocks not only on the hands but in the ears too. My rings is over 2 carats and I will openly admit that this job has given me a little DSS. (I just try to remind myself that I am still a good 15 years younger than all the mom's who are rude to me at school and I have time...j/k...sort of)

 

[chemgirl]

I wonder if these girls just want big without caring about quality, or big AND high quality (or big AND brand name?)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of budget for the ring, when my FI and I were talking about rings I knew his salary and would not have been happy with the $500 walmart special. However, I certainly would have been more than happy with a smaller ring, because I want to be with him, not the rock.

In my experience with that particular group of girls, they wouldn't care about quality or brand name if the diamond was huge. A brand name would just be icing on the cake, but not necessary. If it was smaller, or average (whatever that means) they'd expect a brand. It seemed like a smaller diamond was ok if it was from Tiffany (but not much smaller). I would guess they'd announce the brand name to the world though...because how else would people know why it was "small"?

I hear what you're saying about keeping it a bit proportional to salary. I don't even know if that's the right way of saying it. I wouldn't have been happy with the $500 Walmart Special either, for the same reason I'm not happy with the $99 Zales Christmas special. I would rather he put thought and research in to a jewelry piece and then buy the best quality he can comfortably afford. To me that means what he can pay cash for without affecting our retirement savings or emergency funds. I guess its different for everyone.

 

[suchende]

By the laws of statistics there has GOT to be one of these women of great expectations on Pricecope, come out come out whereever you are! I guess I get expectations to a certain extent. If you are fairly debt free, make good money and hang in a social circle where everyone has a 2ct ring, you would kind of expect that your ring would be similar and so would most of your friends.. especially if you let it be known you're a jewelry girl. Please believe the woman are most likely not sitting and waiting. They are subtly or not so subtly advocating for what they want. And if it's a true expectation, this tactic has worked for them in the past so kudos to them for getting what they want!

Well I'll play devil's advocate to the extent that I would expect that by the time I get engaged, the person down on one knee will be financially stable enough to give me a ring I wouldn't want to upgrade. If all goes according to plan (knock on wood, might be tempting fate here) BF will be a lawyer in NYC at a firm where 2ct+ is the norm, so I don't think my dream ring would be terribly unrealistic.

That said, with student loans, wanting to start a family, possibly not going the corporate law path myself, we might both decide to prioritize differently.

 

[Trekkie]

By the laws of statistics there has GOT to be one of these women of great expectations on Pricecope, come out come out whereever you are! I guess I get expectations to a certain extent. If you are fairly debt free, make good money and hang in a social circle where everyone has a 2ct ring, you would kind of expect that your ring would be similar and so would most of your friends.. especially if you let it be known you're a jewelry girl. Please believe the woman are most likely not sitting and waiting. They are subtly or not so subtly advocating for what they want. And if it's a true expectation, this tactic has worked for them in the past so kudos to them for getting what they want!

Ok, ok, here I am, I admit it, I had expectations!

Well, not exactly... My FI told me what he would be comfortable with spending and I tried to get the biggest, best rock I could for that.

I have a .51 G VS2 H&A rb in a solitaire setting. I could have had the magical 1ct if we had chosen something of lesser quality. I could even have had 100 single pointers to reach the 1ct mark. And yes, I would like a bigger stone one day (hey, a girl can dream, right? ) but when I think of the love and thought that went into this stone, I just melt.

One of my friends had definite expectations about what she would and would not accept. She told her then-BF that she wanted a half carat princess cut solitaire - nothing less would do. He could only afford a third, so she chipped in. She's happy and so is he.

ETA: We live in South Africa where cheap maul store rings abound! In my small town half a carat is huge - I don't know of anyone here with anything bigger.

 

[slg47]

I wonder if these girls just want big without caring about quality, or big AND high quality (or big AND brand name?)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of budget for the ring, when my FI and I were talking about rings I knew his salary and would not have been happy with the $500 walmart special. However, I certainly would have been more than happy with a smaller ring, because I want to be with him, not the rock.

In my experience with that particular group of girls, they wouldn't care about quality or brand name if the diamond was huge. A brand name would just be icing on the cake, but not necessary. If it was smaller, or average (whatever that means) they'd expect a brand. It seemed like a smaller diamond was ok if it was from Tiffany (but not much smaller). I would guess they'd announce the brand name to the world though...because how else would people know why it was "small"?

I hear what you're saying about keeping it a bit proportional to salary. I don't even know if that's the right way of saying it. I wouldn't have been happy with the $500 Walmart Special either, for the same reason I'm not happy with the $99 Zales Christmas special. I would rather he put thought and research in to a jewelry piece and then buy the best quality he can comfortably afford. To me that means what he can pay cash for without affecting our retirement savings or emergency funds. I guess its different for everyone.

I am with you on not affecting retirement savings/emergency funds/going into debt! I am not sure that I worded my post correctly...I am bad with these things.

Trekkie I am with you also, we discussed what he would be comfortable spending and got the best ring we could.

Interestingly, I saw an 'engagement ring budget calculator' on some website...just for fun I entered in 999,999 and it said that if that is your salary, the ring should cost $8,033!

 

[HollyS]

Two carats is definitely not the norm. Anywhere.

There may be some cultural shifting, fostered by media or the industry, targeted to the younger generation, but, so far, that has not translated to being 'the norm'. And I'd venture a guess that most young women don't expect a diamond quite that large. Not that they wouldn't take it!

The norm, worldwide, appears to be less than a carat.

 

[chemgirl]

I wonder if these girls just want big without caring about quality, or big AND high quality (or big AND brand name?)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of budget for the ring, when my FI and I were talking about rings I knew his salary and would not have been happy with the $500 walmart special. However, I certainly would have been more than happy with a smaller ring, because I want to be with him, not the rock.

In my experience with that particular group of girls, they wouldn't care about quality or brand name if the diamond was huge. A brand name would just be icing on the cake, but not necessary. If it was smaller, or average (whatever that means) they'd expect a brand. It seemed like a smaller diamond was ok if it was from Tiffany (but not much smaller). I would guess they'd announce the brand name to the world though...because how else would people know why it was "small"?

I hear what you're saying about keeping it a bit proportional to salary. I don't even know if that's the right way of saying it. I wouldn't have been happy with the $500 Walmart Special either, for the same reason I'm not happy with the $99 Zales Christmas special. I would rather he put thought and research in to a jewelry piece and then buy the best quality he can comfortably afford. To me that means what he can pay cash for without affecting our retirement savings or emergency funds. I guess its different for everyone.

I am with you on not affecting retirement savings/emergency funds/going into debt! I am not sure that I worded my post correctly...I am bad with these things.

Trekkie I am with you also, we discussed what he would be comfortable spending and got the best ring we could.

Interestingly, I saw an 'engagement ring budget calculator' on some website...just for fun I entered in 999,999 and it said that if that is your salary, the ring should cost $8,033!

Slg, I think you wording was fine. I didn't mean to make it sound otherwise. Seems like its my wording that needs some work!

 

[slg47]

I wonder if these girls just want big without caring about quality, or big AND high quality (or big AND brand name?)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of budget for the ring, when my FI and I were talking about rings I knew his salary and would not have been happy with the $500 walmart special. However, I certainly would have been more than happy with a smaller ring, because I want to be with him, not the rock.

In my experience with that particular group of girls, they wouldn't care about quality or brand name if the diamond was huge. A brand name would just be icing on the cake, but not necessary. If it was smaller, or average (whatever that means) they'd expect a brand. It seemed like a smaller diamond was ok if it was from Tiffany (but not much smaller). I would guess they'd announce the brand name to the world though...because how else would people know why it was "small"?

I hear what you're saying about keeping it a bit proportional to salary. I don't even know if that's the right way of saying it. I wouldn't have been happy with the $500 Walmart Special either, for the same reason I'm not happy with the $99 Zales Christmas special. I would rather he put thought and research in to a jewelry piece and then buy the best quality he can comfortably afford. To me that means what he can pay cash for without affecting our retirement savings or emergency funds. I guess its different for everyone.

I am with you on not affecting retirement savings/emergency funds/going into debt! I am not sure that I worded my post correctly...I am bad with these things.

Trekkie I am with you also, we discussed what he would be comfortable spending and got the best ring we could.

Interestingly, I saw an 'engagement ring budget calculator' on some website...just for fun I entered in 999,999 and it said that if that is your salary, the ring should cost $8,033!

Slg, I think you wording was fine. I didn't mean to make it sound otherwise. Seems like its my wording that needs some work!

oh no, I don't think you made it seem otherwise at all! side note: are you a chemist? (me too...well sort of.)

 

[chemgirl]

I wonder if these girls just want big without caring about quality, or big AND high quality (or big AND brand name?)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of budget for the ring, when my FI and I were talking about rings I knew his salary and would not have been happy with the $500 walmart special. However, I certainly would have been more than happy with a smaller ring, because I want to be with him, not the rock.

In my experience with that particular group of girls, they wouldn't care about quality or brand name if the diamond was huge. A brand name would just be icing on the cake, but not necessary. If it was smaller, or average (whatever that means) they'd expect a brand. It seemed like a smaller diamond was ok if it was from Tiffany (but not much smaller). I would guess they'd announce the brand name to the world though...because how else would people know why it was "small"?

I hear what you're saying about keeping it a bit proportional to salary. I don't even know if that's the right way of saying it. I wouldn't have been happy with the $500 Walmart Special either, for the same reason I'm not happy with the $99 Zales Christmas special. I would rather he put thought and research in to a jewelry piece and then buy the best quality he can comfortably afford. To me that means what he can pay cash for without affecting our retirement savings or emergency funds. I guess its different for everyone.

I am with you on not affecting retirement savings/emergency funds/going into debt! I am not sure that I worded my post correctly...I am bad with these things.

Trekkie I am with you also, we discussed what he would be comfortable spending and got the best ring we could.

Interestingly, I saw an 'engagement ring budget calculator' on some website...just for fun I entered in 999,999 and it said that if that is your salary, the ring should cost $8,033!

Slg, I think you wording was fine. I didn't mean to make it sound otherwise. Seems like its my wording that needs some work!

oh no, I don't think you made it seem otherwise at all! side note: are you a chemist? (me too...well sort of.)

Chemical engineer! Yey science!

I think I might have the views I do about finances and jewelry because I have such an analytical job.

 

[rosetta]

My FI went to almost 6 months salary to get my rings.

We went more on projected earnings rather than current, so my rings are a lot bigger than my peers. He knows I won't be asking for an upgrade so we are both happy.

He never got that Porsche though...

 

[vintagelover229]

I'm very happy with the size I'm getting and actually would have preferred it smaller to be honest. While I love my ring (1.64 carats) the fishtale prongs make it appear even larger on my size 4 finger. I'd happily have gotten a carat or smaller but my SO wasn't having it.

Any idea what the average ering size is in Ontario? I'm sure the city is larger but I haven't seen anything above .5 carat in my family or his family and I bought a gold band to wear most of the time bc I feel it's to large.

A cousin did get married and I think she has over a carat but she lives in the Midwestern part of MI and I don't doubt hers is probably the largest in her family.

That being said idk if 2 carats is the "norm" it may have been prior to the downturn of the economy and before the price increase (a few yes ago a half carat ideal was ~600.00 and now it's double that).

 

[slg47]

My FI went to almost 6 months salary to get my rings.

We went more on projected earnings rather than current, so my rings are a lot bigger than my peers. He knows I won't be asking for an upgrade so we are both happy.

He never got that Porsche though...

rosetta if he never got the porsche then you should at least WEAR that beautiful ring!!!

 

[Kaleigh]

Not the norm. My friends who do have a 2 carat of more waited 15 years before getting an upgrade. Some of Ashley's friends are starting to get engaged. None of them are even thinking of 2 carats.. They would think that's insane.

 

[Kay]

About 5 years ago, one of my colleagues came to me for advice about a diamond for an e-ring for his girlfriend. I about fell off my chair when he said she wanted a 3 carat diamond! If he bought online, that probably would have been about 3-4 months gross salary for him, so technically do-able I guess, but they were also buying a house (very expensive in our city). No one in the under 50 age range at our firm sports a rock that big, nor do the wives. I gave him advice about cut, color, clarity, etc. He ended up buying her a beautiful RB in the 2 ct range, and it looks huge on her tiny finger. I don't know where she got the idea or nerve to suggest 3 ct.

 

[HollyS]

About 5 years ago, one of my colleagues came to me for advice about a diamond for an e-ring for his girlfriend. I about fell off my chair when he said she wanted a 3 carat diamond! If he bought online, that probably would have been about 3-4 months gross salary for him, so technically do-able I guess, but they were also buying a house (very expensive in our city). No one in the under 50 age range at our firm sports a rock that big, nor do the wives. I gave him advice about cut, color, clarity, etc. He ended up buying her a beautiful RB in the 2 ct range, and it looks huge on her tiny finger. I don't know where she got the idea or nerve to suggest 3 ct.

She had the 'nerve' because she felt entitled. OR, ask for the HUGE rock, get the large rock instead. Beats the heck out of asking for a 2 ct. and getting the 1 ct. Maybe it was a strategic move on her part.

 

[chemgirl]

I'm very happy with the size I'm getting and actually would have preferred it smaller to be honest. While I love my ring (1.64 carats) the fishtale prongs make it appear even larger on my size 4 finger. I'd happily have gotten a carat or smaller but my SO wasn't having it.

Any idea what the average engagement ring size is in Ontario? I'm sure the city is larger but I haven't seen anything above .5 carat in my family or his family and I bought a gold band to wear most of the time bc I feel it's to large.

A cousin did get married and I think she has over a carat but she lives in the Midwestern part of MI and I don't doubt hers is probably the largest in her family.

That being said idk if 2 carats is the "norm" it may have been prior to the downturn of the economy and before the price increase (a few yes ago a half carat ideal was ~600.00 and now it's double that).

I'm in Ontario and it seems like 0.75 ct is the average for my social group. I suspect that the only girl in our group with above 1 ct is a PSer because she has changed settings a few times and talks about upgrades! Nobody else in our social group really talks about these things. My parent's generation it was .5 ct or a cluster style ring.

Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing anything over 0.75 ct when I was browsing the Cartier on Bloor in Toronto. Seems like maybe people here just go for smaller?

 

[slg47]

I'm very happy with the size I'm getting and actually would have preferred it smaller to be honest. While I love my ring (1.64 carats) the fishtale prongs make it appear even larger on my size 4 finger. I'd happily have gotten a carat or smaller but my SO wasn't having it.

Any idea what the average engagement ring size is in Ontario? I'm sure the city is larger but I haven't seen anything above .5 carat in my family or his family and I bought a gold band to wear most of the time bc I feel it's to large.

A cousin did get married and I think she has over a carat but she lives in the Midwestern part of MI and I don't doubt hers is probably the largest in her family.

That being said idk if 2 carats is the "norm" it may have been prior to the downturn of the economy and before the price increase (a few yes ago a half carat ideal was ~600.00 and now it's double that).

I'm in Ontario and it seems like 0.75 ct is the average for my social group. I suspect that the only girl in our group with above 1 ct is a PSer because she has changed settings a few times and talks about upgrades! Nobody else in our social group really talks about these things. My parent's generation it was .5 ct or a cluster style ring.

Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing anything over 0.75 ct when I was browsing the Cartier on Bloor in Toronto. Seems like maybe people here just go for smaller?

the bold part made me

ETA the part that I bolded about upgrades, not the previously bolded part!

 

[yssie]

About 5 years ago, one of my colleagues came to me for advice about a diamond for an e-ring for his girlfriend. I about fell off my chair when he said she wanted a 3 carat diamond! If he bought online, that probably would have been about 3-4 months gross salary for him, so technically do-able I guess, but they were also buying a house (very expensive in our city). No one in the under 50 age range at our firm sports a rock that big, nor do the wives. I gave him advice about cut, color, clarity, etc. He ended up buying her a beautiful RB in the 2 ct range, and it looks huge on her tiny finger. I don't know where she got the idea or nerve to suggest 3 ct.

She had the 'nerve' because she felt entitled. OR, ask for the HUGE rock, get the large rock instead. Beats the heck out of asking for a 2 ct. and getting the 1 ct. Maybe it was a strategic move on her part.

I just snorted out loud.

 

[Circe]

I'm very happy with the size I'm getting and actually would have preferred it smaller to be honest. While I love my ring (1.64 carats) the fishtale prongs make it appear even larger on my size 4 finger. I'd happily have gotten a carat or smaller but my SO wasn't having it.

Any idea what the average engagement ring size is in Ontario? I'm sure the city is larger but I haven't seen anything above .5 carat in my family or his family and I bought a gold band to wear most of the time bc I feel it's to large.

A cousin did get married and I think she has over a carat but she lives in the Midwestern part of MI and I don't doubt hers is probably the largest in her family.

That being said idk if 2 carats is the "norm" it may have been prior to the downturn of the economy and before the price increase (a few yes ago a half carat ideal was ~600.00 and now it's double that).

Threadjack! VL, I adore fishtail prongs - do you have a thread on your ring? I did try searching, but ... new PS search-enging, yay.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.