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This looks like a great diamond. Tell me why I'm wrong!

B

Behacad

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
102
Hi everyone,

This diamond looks good to me: http://www.brilliance.com/diamonds/1.30-carat-round-h-color-vvs2-clarity-super-ideal-cut-egl-certified-loose-diamond-D12406516#tab-report

Here is why:
VVS2 (very likely to be eye clean)
1.3 carats
Excellent cut
1.8 on the Holoway cut advisor
EGL obviously decreases price substantially, but the values still seem acceptable.


I think a nice 1.3 carat diamond should be around 10k or something, yet this one is 5.2k. What am I missing? I am not thinking of buying it, but I am trying to educate myself. Knowing what I am missing here could be very useful when looking to other diamonds in the future. If it is the perfect deal, please don't buy it, I might in a few months :P
 
You didn't say what color the diamond is, but EGL is the key to the pricing here. EGL-USA tends to be more accurate, EGL-ISRAEL has a horrible reputation.

I plugged in 1.25-1.35 as the size, all colors up to J, and all clarities up to I1, GIA-graded only, $4900 to 5500.

The only E, F, or G colors were clarity I1.

H and I were SI2 and I1.

J were VS2, SI1 and SI2.

So the diamond you are looking it is probably somewhere among those colors and clarities, or close.

Check this thread (read down toward the bottom) for information on discounts and premiums for diamonds graded by various grading organizations.

liz
 
Oops,

Well the color is H, and I am somewhat familiar with the grading agencies. I suppose it is reasonable to assume that H EGL international is likely somewhat close to J GIA. VVS2 EGL-international could also be called VS2 GIA, for the purposes of comparisons here (lets not get into the argument of transformations!)

Still, it seems like a decent deal, assuming of course that the colour and clarity are not more than two grades off.

I did a search with just GIA and the best I could find were 1.20 carat VS2s, J color, with HCA scores over 3.

Looking at it from that perspective, it no longer seems to me as a great deal. Still, it does seem like a decent or even good deal, no?

Edit: I suppose the "discount" (if there is any, which may be arguable and the point of this thread) is not being certain of what the diamond actually entails given the EGL cert.
 
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-vs-gia-ags.177913/#post-3238193#p3238193']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-vs-gia-ags.177913/#post-3238193#p3238193[/URL]

There really is no argument, EGL graded stones are discounted by the industry, how much is dependent on which EGL lab graded the stone.

EDIT: Diamonds sell for what they are worth PERIOD! EGL is not in the business of offering consumers a great deal, they are in the business to make a profit. Dealers know exactly which lab to send the stone to for grading to maximize their profits. Offering you a deal is no where in the equation.
 
EGL is a no.

You don't need VVS.

Stick to a GIA I color and eyeclean SI1 clarity for the stone with a good HCA and Ex for cut and you'll get a nicer stone than that one.
 
Many people get confused about EGL certified stones. Yes, EGL USA is slightly discounted and not quite as strict as GIA, but they are still a very reputable lab.

EGL International (including EGL ISRAEL) is NOT affiliated with EGL USA, as it states on their website:

In 1986 EGL USA became independently owned. Today the EGL USA Group has laboratories in New York City, Los Angeles, Vancouver, and Toronto.

EGL USA is not affiliated with any other EGL labs outside North America.
Click to expand...

You will find many EGL ISRAEL stones to be FAR less expensive than other stones. If they are, it's based on quality - plain and simple. I have purchased EGL ISRAEL stones at fair market value, but I wasn't basing any decision on what the certificate said.
 
I just pointed out the fact that EGL USA is a completely different lab/company than EGL International. EGL USA is much more accurate, thus it is priced accordingly.
 
Precieux_Art_Jewelers|1358803061|3361086 said:
I just pointed out the fact that EGL USA is a completely different lab/company than EGL International. EGL USA is much more accurate, thus it is priced accordingly.
Click to expand...
It is sorta like comparing which rotten egg stinks worse but its a true statement about prices on average.
EGL USA being a separate company is a fact.

Btw. Welcome to pricescope, home of the most educated diamond consumers in the world.
 
I agree with you that EGL USA is more reputable than EGL International and is traded accordingly. And agree with Karl that it's really a case of which rotten egg stinks worse. The fact that they are traded at a 27% discount (worse for EGL International which is 40% or so I believe?) speaks volumes of the industries faith in their grading standards.

Welcome to PS! =) :wavey:
 
Thanks! I personally wouldn't go that far, though. At least I know EGL USA is consistently a little off. The GIA isn't perfect, either.

Based on that EGL International cert, there's no way to tell what kind of stone it is. It's certainly off by more than a grade or two!

That was my point - hope it helps!
 
OP I just wanted to show you an example of grade creep and how extreme it can be. This is an example of stone with similar proportions to your example, it score a 1.7 on the HCA. EGL International color graded it an H. The vendors colorimeter graded it a P,that is an 8 color grade difference, and an enormous difference in value. The vendor reported in this thread that the colorimeter was calibrated correctly.[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thers-something-about-paper-why-arent-you-mad.176233/page-2']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thers-something-about-paper-why-arent-you-mad.176233/page-2[/URL] This is an extreme case, but my point is, how can you expect to know if your stone is off by 2 grades or 8?
 
I already knew the disparity between EGL (international) and GIA and such, but the gist of this discussion seems to focus on "if its too good to be true, its not true". In essence, it seems as if we cannot predict the quality of an EGL stone, and in general sellers will never give a great bargain (99% of the time). So if something is EGL G and at a phenomenal price, it likely means something is up, and that the stone may be "over rated" by 3 or even more grades.

Correct?

On another note, this stone seems like a great deal:

http://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/GIA_Certified_Round_1.5_CT_H_SI1_Loose_Diamond_1213728/

Is the issue the inclusions? Perhaps it is not eye clean.
 
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