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Thoughts on this 2 carat OEC

almondblossom

almondblossom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
120
I was looking at this OEC and I would really love your opinions on it! I have seen it IRL and of course I am no expert, but I thought it was absolutely amazing!!! So beautiful and so white (can't belive it is an L). It had a very nice flower pattern and very crisp on-off-on-off facets. It had so much fire and brillince, I was completely mesmerized... I also had a wonderful high crown and an open culet (medium size?) giving it that lovely kozibe effect. It was slightly cushiony, but perceived as round when just looking at it quickly.

I looked for lazy facets, obstruction, fisheye and nailhead, but couldn't see anything. I was moving it around, but could not see it go dark at any time. However, when I was gonna take pictures of the diamond it went a little dark. I could not see that at all when I was just looking at it so I am guessing it was the camera reflecting. Could that be possible? What are your thought on the cut?

Here is what I know about it:
It is a little over 2 ct, not sure how much since it was measured in the setting
Width 8x8.3mm
height 5.6mm
Good cut
Very good brilliance
equal to GIA L color (it is uncerted)
SI eyeclean (I could find the inclusion with a loupe, but not with my eyes no matter how hard I was looking)
No damages, nicks or anything like that (the girdle was slightly thick I think).

They said they rarily have old cuts that are this large and beautifully cut, but I wanna hear with you guys who are unbias... What do you think?

Is this an OEC or OMC? What do you think about the carat weight, judging the measurements? Is this a good diamond to purchase? I don't wanna reveal the price, but what would you consider a good offer to give for this diamond? Do you think the black reflections in the middle is anything to worry about? As I said previously I could not see it IRL and the jeweller said it had no obstruction or nailhead.

Sorry I only have crappy mobile phone pics! I looks a little yellow in the pics, but in reality I thought it was very white.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

2013-02-22_13.jpg

2013-02-22_0.jpg

2013-02-22_1.jpg

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From the pictures, I'm a bit concerned that the outer facets (the "petals" around the center) don't show up crisply. Maybe it's the photographs, but I'd give this some careful attention when you look at the stone again.
 
GemFever|1361544204|3387548 said:
From the pictures, I'm a bit concerned that the outer facets (the "petals" around the center) don't show up crisply. Maybe it's the photographs, but I'd give this some careful attention when you look at the stone again.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would be concerned with that as well. It also doesn't look as if it is uniform size faceting throughout and also edge to edge brightness seems lacking but it could be the pics. I just don't see a pleasing pattern here but difficult to say from these pictures. I also would be concerned about the non certed opinion of these stats. Unless you are certain of your eye and are not concerned with the "real" stats I would want a more objective (ie GIA) opinion.
 
missy|1361544650|3387555 said:
GemFever|1361544204|3387548 said:
From the pictures, I'm a bit concerned that the outer facets (the "petals" around the center) don't show up crisply. Maybe it's the photographs, but I'd give this some careful attention when you look at the stone again.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would be concerned with that as well. It also doesn't look as if it is uniform size faceting throughout and also edge to edge brightness seems lacking but it could be the pics. I just don't see a pleasing pattern here but difficult to say from these pictures. I also would be concerned about the non certed opinion of these stats. Unless you are certain of your eye and are not concerned with the "real" stats I would want a more objective (ie GIA) opinion.
Click to expand...

These cut characteristics are not issues per se, since to my eye this diamond looks like an OMC verging on an OEC, so it has some of the characteristics of an OMC like the ones you own, GemFever: large pavilion mains under the table, and a bit of a maltese cross. But it is rounder and a little more symmetric, so vergind on an OEC. So the OMC characteristics you guys note -- out of round, different size faceting from center to outer periphery -- are not always negative, its just different than a more uniform OEC :)) This one looks like a nicely cut example of its type.

I can see some slight evidence of a maltese cross, and sometimes that can lead to an overdark center. But the table is so small that I really doubt the center all blacks out at once, and the photos seem to show that many of the pavilion mains are active at the same time. When worn at a tilt angle this would not be apparent. So for cut, to my eye this looks like a nice example of a later OMC, early OEC. If that is the flavour you like, great! If you prefer a more unifor look and optics, then you might want a different diamond.

I do agree that the color and clarity should be verified by an appraiser. Don't buy without an unconditional return polcy.

What is the price?
 
Thank you so much for your input! :-) I will definately take your thoughts into consideration. It's from a well established auction house with a very good reputation. They tend to grade conservatively so I am not really worried about that.

Thanks for chimming in Dreamer! You have such great eyes for these things :-) I actually think you are right about it being a late OMC. I was looking for an early OEC but this OMC looked quite symmetrical in my untrained eyes. Would the carat weight be about the same (2 ct) for an OMC, based on the measurements?

It is an auction and it starts from around 7000. I don't know how high I wanna go. I really like the diamond but I don't wanna pay overprice.
 
With those face up measurements and that make it is probably over 2ct but its hard to know for sure. I know, for example, that Fortekitty was recently surprised when she unset her "2ct" and discovered it was under 2ct. This matters a lot because it affects pricing. Peronsonally, I would assume it is under 2ct for bidding to make sure you don't over pay. And in that case, I would look for comps that are M Si2, also to be conservative (one cannot accurately appraise color set). Off the top of my head I would not pay much more than about 10k. There have been a number of similar diamonds sold on PS preloved of similar specs in the $10k range WITH lab reports.

Also examine it in natural lighting. I assume the auction does not accept returns?
 
Thanks for your thoughts! I can't see it outdoors unfortunately and there is no return... very scary...

So please if anyone has any more opinions on the cut or price or whatever regarding this diamond, don't hold back! I need to make my decision today...
 
Dreamer_D|1361552876|3387673 said:
So for cut, to my eye this looks like a nice example of a later OMC, early OEC. If that is the flavour you like, great! If you prefer a more unifor look and optics, then you might want a different diamond.
Click to expand...

Dreamer, you nailed it. I initially started typing up that it has a lot of OMC characteristics, but didn't know how to phrase it exactly.

Almondblossom, you seem to have loved the diamond when you saw it, so perhaps this part-OMC part-OEC is perfect for you. But its always good to be aware of what you're looking at. Also... I don't know if you're looking for this kind of advice/point of view, but if you tried to re-sell this stone in the future, it may not be as easy to sell as a more proportional, classic OEC. But it also doesn't have the characteristics of a classic OMC -- like the bubbly kozibe (at least that I can see from the pics).

But really, those are all just hypothetical considerations. If the stone is a great performer in real life, then that's that! It doesn't have to fit any mold but the mold of fire and sparkle ::)

I think the starting price is great, but be careful not to get too caught up in the bidding! It can get dangerously easy to overspend in the heat of the moment. But who knows, maybe you'll get it for a great deal! Good luck!
 
almondblossom|1361562371|3387846 said:
Thanks for your thoughts! I can't see it outdoors unfortunately and there is no return... very scary...

So please if anyone has any more opinions on the cut or price or whatever regarding this diamond, don't hold back! I need to make my decision today...
Click to expand...

ooh, I don't know. If you cannot see it outdoors and there is so return period I would be concerned. Only because you cannot get a true 100% idea of the performance of this beauty without being able to see her under these conditions. So, it would be a risk. Now, Charmy took a risk (see her thread big risk, big reward) but she is a real expert. As is Dreamer, ForteKitty, Demelza and anyone else I left out. They might be OK with that risk because they have seen many many old cuts and know exactly what to look for. It's only after seeing lots of these cuts that you know a winner when you see it even if you cannot see it under all conditions. For you, I would be more hesitant.

But I don't want to scare you off from what might be a great deal for you so just proceed with caution! Good luck-I hope you find the stone of your dreams!!!!
 
Not at the level of Dreamer and Fortekitty - I have a lot of self doubt on the "ok" diamonds but I know good when I see good. Anyways, this diamond is clearly out of round to my eyes so you have to ask yourself if you like the shape. Some people are actively looking for this shape so it is purely preference. I know others are being safe by saying color needs to be appraised ... but honestly ... I am thinking that is way lower than a GIA L. I find OECs photographs white or when it doesn't look white .. it's picking up color from the surrounding. This diamond looks like there is a clear tint to me. Fortekitty's diamond is a GIA L and you never see a hint of color in any of the photos (at least to me).

The grading - is that base on your experience or what the vendor is telling you? I wasn't comfortable estimating grades until after I have seen hundreds and have graded stones with me for comparison.
 
I think this is a big risk. No known weight. No known color and clarity (I do not accept the "strict reputation" notion). No examination outdoors and in various lighting conditions.

I do not suggest you proceed unless you can get it for close to $7000. The risks do not warrant paying more IMO.
 
Thanks GemFever, missy, charmyPoo and Dreamer! I will probably pass on it. I feel too unexperienced to take the risk and your opinion weighs in a lot because I know you all have an amazing ability to spot a good diamond. And if I would one day wanna re-sell it for some reason I wanna be able to do that. I didn't know OMCs were less popular.

I don't think I will ever be able to look at a diamond outside where I live. These auction houses have security guards and I cannot imagine that they would allow me to look at the diamond outside the premises.

I don't know why it looks so tinted in the pics. I looked very white IRL and I compared it to a colorless diamond, but I am no expert on color. I looked at an M colored diamond as well and it was much more tinted but I am a rookie so I cannot judge colors that well :-) I compared the sparkle factor next to other diamonds and this diamond was very sparkly and had lots of bold flashes and fire but of course I don't know how it would perform in different lighting. I don't think it will go for much more that 7k based on what I have seen on previous auctions (old cuts are not so popular where I live).

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and expertise!
 
Here is another pic if that might help... :-(

img-5-1.jpg
 
Almond,

If it goes for close to $7K, it may be worth it.

I am not really sure that OMCs are less popular. But my impression has been that people prefer specific categories -- either a classic, round OEC with a certain kind of distinct patterning, or a cushiony OMC with a certain kind of distinct patterning, or an oval, etc. It's a little tougher when it's a mixture of both. That's my view, but I am not the expert by any means!

If it's really a beautiful stone and faces up white, maybe bid! If the stone sells for close to $7K, will you regret for a long time having missed it? Would this be your engagement ring, or something in addition to your ering?
 
Yes it's neither nor... At first thought it was an OEC, but when I googled OMCs I realized that is what it must be. I am thinking this shape might look nice in a Jbeg Sophie setting or something. The girdle is in very good shape so I think it would be safe in a four prong setting.

It is for my upgrade so there is no time pressure. But I have looked around and it seemed like a good deal but now I am not so sure. I haven't seen many old cuts in real life so I am really listening to you guys. Tough choice and just a couple if hours left...
 
Ditto about 7k, I wouldn't go close to 10k.
To me the stone is really lovely and Id wager the center isn't dark in person, to me that's typical higher crown smaller table camera obstruction. Anyway good luck!
 
I wouldn't give up yet! If you can get the ring for under 7K, it may be worth it. It's a pretty diamond and something in the size range is not that easy to find. You have seen the diamond in person and none of us have so it is best that you are the judge!
 
Thanks for your help, Mara and CharmyPoo! The auction is over. I actually placed a maximum bid of 7k but was outbid at the very end :-(. It sold for 8k. I am a little disappointed but I hope there is another one out there meant for me. I will continue my search for an OEC. I never considered OMCs before but this one was so lovely in person.

I am really happy to have been given great advice from all of you guys. It means a lot to me because you have some of the most beautiful diamonds I have ever seen and your rings are my inspiration.
 
Sorry it didn't work out this time Almondblossom. But you have a very good budget, and hopefully you will find the perfect stone in the near future!
 
You'll find your stone! Patience definitely pays off, hang in there. This must not have been meant to be the one. :naughty:
 
Thanks for your support GemFever, Madelise and Mara! I will try to be patient...

Madelise, thanks for the link. That OEC has everthing I love in an OEC. It is gorgeous and I would be very happy if I could find a stone like that with such flowery pattern :-). But I am in Europe and with tax and custom it would be too expensive for us. But if you find any great eBay deals in Europe, please let me know.
 
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