Thoughts on this subject?

[Gypsy]

Basil''s thread-- a particular sentence in her''s-- got me thinking about my friends and the advice I''ve given.

In her thread Basil mentioned that the two of themhave never fight. In the last week two good friends of mine that are just starting to think about marriage to their SO''s have cited this as a reason as a positive one.

And for me each time, as it did with Basil (sorry Basil for signaling you out like this... but it just reminded me of my two friends), this raised a red flag for me.

Both of my friends are thinking about moving with with their SO''s (they don''t know each other either, which is kinda funny-- should put them on the phone with one another)... and well... I''ve told them both to expect arguements and disagreements as they enter this part of their relationship and told them that IMO, they shouldn''t push the marriage thing so soon-- partially because of the ''we''ve never fought'' thing.

I am especially worried about one of the couples where my friend is afraid of anger (but does have a temper) and her SO has been in anger management therapy before (don''t know him terribly well).

My DF and I don''t fight very often, and didn''t at all... probably for the first 6 months of our relationship. But once things started becoming more serious... we did sometimes... and I always have felt that fighting is an important part of a relationship. To me it says a lot about the comfort of the individuals with one another, with a ''dropping'' of the dating ''face,'' and most importantly, it''s a process of learning who to fight with one another. Learning how to fight with the other person, how not to hurt the other while still expressing anger and disappointment, how to make up... all of that for me is very important. And it raises flags for me when people start talking about marriage before they''ve entered this part of the relationship... especially since weddings and planning them are such stressful times.

I don''t know... don''t flame me... I really am confused about this... and want to make sure I''m giving people good advice.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

I agree that the way a couple deals with and communicates through disagreements is fundamental to the longevity and endurance of a relationship. Paul and I went through the "never fighting" stage, too. Then we went through the "always fighting" stage, because we had to learn how to listen and hear the other. Now when we disagree, it lasts less time, is less painful, and is easier to work through. That''s because we''ve had time to learn how the other tends to perceive things, and how we can be more sensitive to the other''s feelings while still expressing our own.

A friend of mine, though, really does have a relationship where they don''t fight. She basically exerts herself and he backs down. He doesn''t get upset or harbor resentment, and it works for them. Married over 15 years, and happy as I''ve seen just about any couple. That''s a rare thing though.

I like that we can talk about issues and work through them. Makes us feel like we''ve accomplished another piece of knowledge, a building block, a plank of our foundation.

The art of discussion is necessary in any relationship.

 

[basil]

Hey Gypsy,

Actually, I kind of agree. I was with my ex-boyfriend for 4 years. And we fought about stupid stuff all the time. It wasn''t really so bothersome that we disagreed about things, it was that when we fought, fighting wasn''t satisfying or productive. Nothing got accomplished except that we hurt each others'' feelings and eventually he stomped off, which made me even more angry. We never resolved anything, he just waited until I didn''t have any fighting energy left, and then he would come back and pretend nothing happened. And that''s probably the biggest reason he became my ex.

That said, I''m normally pretty laid back and not the argumentative type. The last time when I had a real argument with my friends or my parents was probably high school. Things happen, that''s the way people are, and getting mad usually doesn''t solve anything. So it''s not surprising to me that I''ve never fought with my boyfriend. The things we tend to have different opinions on are pretty minor (i.e., whether or not it''s appropriate to buy one''s work wardrobe at Walmart; whether or not it''s a good idea to save old magazines). It sounds silly to say I would like to have a fight just to see how it works out, and it''s not exactly something I can force

. At this moment, I am really not sure what it could be about, either. I have no illusions that it will never happen, but I do feel confident that we could come to a compromise and work it out.

 

[laine]

As for the time part, just in general, I think things are different in the beginning of a relationship. Everything is new and exciting, and you only really see the good. Both people are still putting their best self forward. Even though my boyfriend and I talked about marriage early on, I told him he couldn''t really ask me for at least a year, for this very reason.

As for the fighting part, Gypsy, I think I agree with you on this one as well. My last boyfriend and I didn''t fight for a long time, we went at least a year or two before we had a real fight. Everything was great, but then once we did have a fight, things changed (that was actually part of the problem, we would fight about the same thing, again and again, and nothing ever changed).

My boyfriend and I have been together for about a year and a half, and we haven''t had a real fight yet. We talk about it sometimes, sort of joking, but also sort of serious, like we wont really be a real couple till we survive a fight, and we talk about what we might fight about, and so far we haven''t really come up with anything.

This isn''t to say that fighting with your significant other is a good thing, but more that you need to be comfortable enough to be honest with one another, even if it leads to a fight, and also that you need to know that you can communicate with one another and get past any fights you may have.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/29/2006 11:35:11 PM
Author: laine

This isn''t to say that fighting with your significant other is a good thing, but more that you need to be comfortable enough to be honest with one another, even if it leads to a fight, and also that you need to know that you can communicate with one another and get past any fights you may have.

That''s it exactly for me. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.

Basil, I''m glad you''re not offended, first of all. Second of all, I''m glad that things with you are so different than the last time. My last ex and I fought all the time too... and it was a very bad relationship because we never worked through anything either... so I totally understand.

My fear with my friends... well the one I gave details about is... that she''s not being herself because she''s afraid of anger and knows he''s been in anger management before. And he''s not fighting because he knows he has issues with it, and doesn''t want to scare her b/c he knows she has issues with anger because of her past. They tip toe around everything. It all seems like a very carefully coreographed dance between them. And well... she''s a good friend and I want her to be happy.

fisherofmengirly what you wrote here: "I like that we can talk about issues and work through them. Makes us feel like we''ve accomplished another piece of knowledge, a building block, a plank of our foundation... The art of discussion is necessary in any relationship." Is also how I feel.

Okay... this is good.

 

[galeteia]

Interesting discussion. I''ve thought about this a fair bit, and I ferverently agree with the importance of dropping the ''dating face''. I think it''s premature to make any long-term plans (like marriage) if you are still wearing the ''dating face''. It''s amazing how many women (including me, before I met my FF) who aren''t comfortable with their boyfriends knowing um... well. How do I put this? I think there is a certain double standard between men and women when it comes to basic human bodily fuctions. My housemate, for example, lives in abject terror that she might one day accidently pass wind in front of her boyfriend of over a year. There are many women who have never let their boyfriends see them without makeup, for example...

One of the ways I knew that my relationship with my FF was a whole new kettle of fish was how absent the ''dating face'' efforts were. We don''t exactly fight, but we do have tense moments and snap at one another, and have had many serious discussions about volatile topics and managed to navigate through them. My FF is a psychologist, and it really does seem to make a difference for me, because we can talk about things that most of my exes wouldn''t have even believed existed. I had one ex protest I expected him to ''relate to [me] on some kind of girly level'' as if only girls contribute to emotional dysfuction in a relationship.

People can''t be afraid to rock the boat, especially if they have a temper. That''s a pretty rough combination-- and a surefire recipe for some serious stress.

 

[aussiegirl23]

Gypsy -- THANKS for a NEW & INTERESTING topic... this went on WAY too long... feel free to ignore it!!

It''s nice talking about the not-so-happy parts of relationships, or the REAL stuff, that isn''t all diamonds and engagements and wonderful... not that those things aren''t exciting and awesome, but there''s a lot more to a relationship.

My boyfriend and I were together for a good 8 months before our first real fight. Strange thing, is that I have a bit of a temper and after I sort of settled into the relationship, I let down that "dating face" and let it all out. So I expressed my frustrations and moments of anger when they came up, but each of these evil-Aussie moments kind of fizzled - since my man would never give into my childishness, or frustrations, or momentary anger. He was always so calm and collected, that it almost drove me nuts. No matter how big or small the issue, he would just talk me out of it, talk me down, calm me down, reason me through it.

He''s Army, and with that comes a certain reserve and seriousness and cautiousness that I can''t quite explain. Partly, it''s just the way he is - a bit cool at first, not one to share emotions all the time, almost like he''s disinterested. But he''s my darling man and over time I pulled him out of himself and now he can be cute and cudley and shares what he''s thinking. Not a 180 change, but enough that I know I''ve reached the "inside" of him. But it''s funny - the Army has made him so disciplined and collected and good at avoiding controversy (respect for superiors, and staying in line with all regulations, etc) that he just wouldn''t fight with me for a long time.

And honestly, in the midst of our first real fight, it hit me... my man has finally cracked - and the REAL guy is coming out... no Army jargon, no crisp, clean uniforms, no referring to SOP''s for every decision in life. That was absolutely crucial. Now I''m sure even if he wasn''t Army, each guy would have his "dating face" game that eventually would have to get dropped. And honestly, I think you don''t really know each other until that 1st huge fight and the subsequent fights that help you learn how to fight. By that I mean how to fight and not kill each other, make each other cry or scream, or hurt one another irrevocably. You develop a style that keeps you sane by putting the issues out on the table, resolving them, and getting past that.

Before then, I''m not sure engagement or marriage would be the best choice, at least for me. You don''t truly know each other because in some sense, you''ve been on your best behavior...

Okay, that went on forever... SORRY!

Aussiegirl : p

 

[Gypsy]

Galateia and aussiegirl... you both say so many wise things... and I agree with you both.

"People can''t be afraid to rock the boat, especially if they have a temper. That''s a pretty rough combination-- and a surefire recipe for some serious stress." Yeah. Right there with you.


"And honestly, in the midst of our first real fight, it hit me... my man has finally cracked - and the REAL guy is coming out." You know my DF is very reserved too... not military reserved lol... but exerts a LOT of self control and HATES losing his temper... regards it as a personal failure. Funny thing is... until he lost his temper I didn''t feel completely ''sure'' about us either. But once he did, AND we worked it through. Well, after that... I finally felt.. .settled. Crazy, but true.

 

[RoseAngel04]

I agree. I def think that couples considering engagement/marriage who have not encountered any sort of disagreement or fight calls for a red flag. Everyone puts on that "Dating face" and once it's shed, the real couple figures out if they work together or not.

Yes my FF and I have had disagreements and arguments, but it has only brought us closer together by completely being ourselves and allowing one another to put the shield down.

I think every healthy serious relationship will have those natural disagreements.

 

[aussiegirl23]

Gypsy,

I have to admit that during the 1st part of my relationship I was incredibly worried that I must be doing something "wrong" since my man was so reserved. I thought I must not be "good enough" for him to let me in. I had a lot of confidence issues at first - there was just no penetrating his thick armor. And then, at a military ball, all dolled up in a ridiculously fancy dress and 4" heels (if only you knew me, you''d know this was as ridiculous as Indiana Jones in a tuxedo) I absolutely lost it. Now this seems silly, so go ahead and laugh... On the way to the bathroom, I passed a couple I knew fairly well, who were in the midst of an absolute blow-out. I mean, no holds barred, top of their lungs fight. And my first reaction wasn''t "why are they fighting, or I hope everything''s okay" but why the heck can''t my man and I ever fight?

Okay, I realize this is a BIZARRE question -- but to me, it signified this huge wall between my man and I. So I get all upset that I have NOT had a fight with my boyfriend (talk about confused and backwards situations) and one of my girlfriends finds me a bit crumpled in the hallway, sitting on the floor of all things... and after about an hour cry session, we get to the bottom of it. She and her husband (army too) went through this same thing. It drove her nuts, thinking that his near refusal to fight was a "holier than though" act. Or that he jsut wasn''t that interested, or serious. But eventually that shield has to come down. Before then, both are holding things back, making compromises (both with and without realizing it), and not really enjoying your relationship to it''s fullest potential. Anyway!

Honestly, if you NEVER fight, are you really experiencing the whole relationship?

Okay, me tired now... all this babbling is enough for one night - I promise!

Aussiegirl : p

 

[Mara]

we hardly ever fought before we got married or lived together...what was there to really fight about? we even still now hardly ever FIGHT as in flat out fight...it's VERY rare that we get that agitated with each other or frustrated. because to me that's typically what big fights come from, frustrations that can't be communicated correctly and understood and acknowledged by the other partner. communication is sooo important in a relationship.

the thing is, couples deal with things differently. some couples are explosive with their communication and have to be heard and acknowledged all the time at all costs. other couples have one passive and one aggressive and many times that kind of relationship works out well. other couples sit down and have long talks. in reality to me nothing is wrong or right as long as they are communicating in whatever way works best for THEM and what makes them feel good.

greg had to really learn to communicate well with me...he would bottle things up when we were first dating and later i'd find them out and wonder why didn't he tell me how he felt then? i kept telling him that he should always speak his mind to me, obviously i do it to him and if he feels something, to just say it!

now, we do a lot more 'daily bickering' is what i call it...where we kind of spar on something like taking out the trash or something else small. but there have only been a handful of times when we have really had a huge fight and he left the house for a drive or something. i like harmony in the household as does he...i think our first year of marriage was a little more tumultuous as we were still figuring things out, but now we are going on year 3 and things are much more settled. we think very similarly on most big issues, which i think is a really positive thing. the only big thing that we typically do not see eye to eye on 100% is $$$..i'm a spender and he is a saver...

we're still working on that part!

so honestly, i don't think any type of communication is wrong or bad or right. people will figure out their own relationships in their own time. i don't think that people to have fights to be ready for marriage...in fact we have probably fought more about things after we got married 10x over than when we were dating, first living together, engaged, planning the wedding etc. it doesn't mean that you can't LEARN how to discuss things during the marriage. i don't think it makes you'ready' by fighting it out beforehand.

 

[IrishAngel7982]

I don''t want to reiterate what everyone else has said here, but I totally agree that fights in a ''new'' relationship are rare. Not that fights are good, but I believe an argument will dictate a relationship''s success. If you work through it together you''ll come out stronger. If you are non-confrontational, always back down, or on the flip side always try to dominate, your relationship might not be as successful. Over time, our true selves come out and if you can''t love your SO for his/her true self you don''t have a solid foundation for your future.
That being said, yeah! I''d see a red flag if a good friend never fought with his/her SO. New relationships are so much fun...honeymoon stage you know! What comes after the honeymoon is what really matters.

 

[DonaBella]

Hi...

I have some thoughts on this subject. In all frankness, not ever disagreeing and not having tiffs or fights in a relationship is not the natural course of most relationships. You take two people, completely different in so many ways, yet both have enough in common to date each other. Even as similar as they may be, they each independently think and act differently to some degree. That is part of the attraction to one another.

With my personal situation, my DH and I have been married 25 years and it has not and will not always be smooth sailing, but it is a situation that works. There was never a dating facade with us. I had had alot more experience than he when we hooked up in college and I was expecting to have the usual nicey nice stuff with him before he showed his true colors, but that never happened with us. Of course, I was nervous at first, but that swiftly disappated and for the first time in my dating experiences, I felt I could breathe around him and be so worried about my actions.

We are as different as can be in so many ways, but for us, there is enough of the stuff that matters that holds us together as a couple, a unit. Every couple I know that has been married for more than 5 or 10 years, has cycles of when they get along and when they just do not. Its normal and part of growing as a couple.

As already mentioned, I would be more anxious and more concerned for a friend if I heard that they had never had a disagreement or a fight. One of the people in the relationship is not being as real as they can be and that could and will lead to disillusionment for the other at the cost of the relationship even. Besides, making up can be SO worth the tiff that led to the "I''m sorrys"!

Just some thoughts from someone who still knows how to keep the embers of passion alive in a 25 year marriage with 9 kids!

 

[galeteia]

I agree that fighting doesn''t indicate a couple is ''ready'' for marriage or not. Gypsy, the impression I got from your posts was that your friend (and her SO) are afraid to get into fight, considering the past history with anger issues? Am I right in that?

In that case, I think it does make a difference. For me, the ability to fight is a trust issue; trust in the relationship to weather the fight, trust in my partner to address the issue at hand, and trusting myself to not escalate the issue in any way-- including keeping it to myself for fear of bringing it up. If I bottle up an issue, it explodes later, usually in the most innapropriate way. No one should ever be afraid to bring up an issue with their partner. Couples doesn''t need to exercise their ability to fight, but they should be able to do so if needed.

After all, if you don''t fight because there is nothing really to fight about, that''s a good sign, but if you don''t fight because you are ''tip toeing'' around issues, afraid to set off a bomb, that''s not a good sign.

How long have they been together, Gypsy?

 

[Mara]

i did read what gyp said about her friend and their tip toe issue but i guess the way i view it is...that will crack sometime, you can't always pretend not to be upset/frustrated/whatever, and when that cracks and they do fight....it'll either show them both that they can get through it or damage their relationship irrepairably. but if they have been together a while and have not come to this point yet, and they are discussing marriage, i don't think that it's prudent to say they aren't 'ready' for marriage just because they haven't reached that threshhold yet for them. if they are happy the way they are going, then let them continue on that in that route. quite possibly they solve issues in other manners that work for them. it could take them YEARS to reach a breaking point with the way they are doing things now. that is why i am saying that it's not ONE person's way of fighting or commnuicating that is right or WORKS out...gypsy you obviously feel one way works great for you and your hubby, but obviously that is not your friend's way. and it's not to say that her way is wrong because she's a little more passive and has some fear to work through. quite possibly if they DO get married and he continues to be respectful of her fears (which it sounds like he IS because he knows she has fears....if he was an ass he wouldn't care) and she feels more secure over time, then those walls of communication will break down on their own. surely time WILL tell. but assuming they have been together for a period of time and have made it work thus far...who's to say it wouldn't continue to work for them?

okay WOW that was really long and rambling, i have to go to bed now!!!!! making no sense.

 

[Gypsy]

LMAO--- been trying to get to sleep for an hour... but I keep checking threads!!

Will address everyone's posts later... but for now... the one couple (anger issues) have been together for a little over a year. And yes... they seem to be afraid to fight-- that's the impression I have from talking to her and watching them interact. They are VERY careful around one another. She was SHOCKED the first time she heard be gripe at DF for not answering his cell phone-- I believe my gripe consisted of me saying "what kind of real estate agent doesn't answer his phone!" on his VM-- after calling for an hour straight (no he wasn't in a meeting, I knew he was at home) while my cat was sick.

ETA: they aren't talking about marriage. Another careful thing with them is that they have never talked about the future. She wants to know where things are going... but well... they don't seem to talk about this stuff either. He had a good relationship that went bad after living together for a while (2 months I think)... so I told her that 1) he might be waiting to see how things go when they live together 2) that they needed to talk about birth control (they haven't really talked about that either) 3) That since they aren't really comfortable with each other yet (didn't use those words) for various reasons (fighting/ tiptoe thing was one of these reasons)... she should probably wait a little while before mentioning the M word.

Plenty of red flags there... but that was the one that struck me because my other friend had just brought it up 2 days before... then Basil's post.

 

[bee*]

I agree that its very very rare to fight in the first few months of a relationship, so I wouldnt base if I were ready to get married on that. D and I didnt fight for about the first year and a half, and although we''ve never had a big blowout fight we will argue on things. We are complete opposites on most things and if something bothers me I will tell him straight away whereas he would keep it bottled in and thats where most of our arguments started. I think its good to get everything out in the open and it definitely makes a relationship stronger. We are just about seven years together now and still going stronger than ever, and we still have arguments here and there-its only natural as we are two different personalities. Its how you solve the arguments that will determine whether you will survive as a couple in my opinion

 

[ladykemma]

i haven't read all the threads yet but the last big fight we had was over the "archie bunker chair" a dreadful thing from the 60s -70s olive green threadbare with the bottom fallen out.

i wanted to replace the chair with something nice, but Mr. "It's fine what's wrong with it" dug his heels in.

we had plenty of moohla for new furniture.

so, I went (again without asking permission) to star furniture clearance section for every day for several weeks in a row. One day there it was. a georgian comfy cushy wing chair deep and big in burgundy leather. On clearance. i called the hubby to bring his pick up truck. he showed up.

and bought the chair without question. now cain't get him out of it. it's his chair.

we don't fight much. content and happy. in our marriage I'm the one who pushes us to new things. he's the one who is good with money. we each have our hobbies and interests so we keep out of each other's hair.

we spent the first year of marriage in counseling, mostly for family of origin issues.

 

[aussiegirl23]

Again and again Lady Kemma -- I love your style... don''t ask... just do! : )

Also... wondering what "family of origins is?"

Aussiegirl : p

 

[ladykemma]

family of origin - the family you grew up with
family of choice - the people you choose to be with now

a term generally used by abuse survivors.

We met in alcoholics anonymous, damaged people. both of us survived tremendous abuse as children. It's a miracle we're as sane as we are and not living under a bridge somewhere. Of course, we both worked our respective butts off in counseling.

In the blueroses post i discused how we spent the first year of our marriage in separate bedrooms, after we discovered that we had life threatening, marriage threatening, psychological issues that HAD to be dealt with.

The counselor wanted us to be like little children, safe in our own space so that she could grow us both up. both of us had BAD cases of post traumatic stress disorder. My hubby is permanently disabled with "dependent personality disorder" which is interesting to live with. And I'm just a loud brassy woman in recovery who no longer puts up with people's sh&t. Think Ann Richards and Molly Ivins.

in an earlier post from this week (galateia's post) i discussed how i was stuck developmentally around age 16-19. stuck, stuck, stuck. i was a walking 28 year old 16 year old. i said I was a late bloomer who didn't get that "everything was not about me". the therapist got me unstuck and grown up. I was treated for codependency and PTSD.

mu hubby was stuck somewhere in the toddler years. he had to be hospitalized in a fabulous, wonderful, highly recommended, treatment center for these issues. It's called " the Meadows" in wickenberg, arizona.

this stuff comes up now and again, only now we have tools to deal with it. I still jump when i hear people yelling at each other and I still have to fend off "shame attacks" for like, wanting new fresh clothes or feeling pretty.

Going to get a haircut, is still my biggest issue, requires phone calls to supportive friends and sometimes being accompanied by a friend in recovery. I could write ten pages just on this.

 

[aussiegirl23]

Lady Kemma,

Sorry if I pushed somewhat - I was just confused on your phrase... It sounds like both you and your husband have survived a LOT, and even more admirably, you''ve survived it together! Thanks for the clarification....

Aussiegirl : p

 

[ladykemma]

you didn''t push. i volunteered

 

[ladykemma]

i forgot - we used to get into knock down drag out fights over housecleaning. ever watch a man vacuum?

ladies - a professional housecleaning service is the best divorce prevention that I can recommend. cheaper than an attorney.

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 6/30/2006 3:07:38 AM
Author: Gypsy
LMAO--- been trying to get to sleep for an hour... but I keep checking threads!!

Will address everyone''s posts later... but for now... the one couple (anger issues) have been together for a little over a year. And yes... they seem to be afraid to fight-- that''s the impression I have from talking to her and watching them interact. They are VERY careful around one another. She was SHOCKED the first time she heard be gripe at DF for not answering his cell phone-- I believe my gripe consisted of me saying ''what kind of real estate agent doesn''t answer his phone!'' on his VM-- after calling for an hour straight (no he wasn''t in a meeting, I knew he was at home) while my cat was sick.

ETA: they aren''t talking about marriage. Another careful thing with them is that they have never talked about the future. She wants to know where things are going... but well... they don''t seem to talk about this stuff either. He had a good relationship that went bad after living together for a while (2 months I think)... so I told her that 1) he might be waiting to see how things go when they live together 2) that they needed to talk about birth control (they haven''t really talked about that either) 3) That since they aren''t really comfortable with each other yet (didn''t use those words) for various reasons (fighting/ tiptoe thing was one of these reasons)... she should probably wait a little while before mentioning the M word.

Plenty of red flags there... but that was the one that struck me because my other friend had just brought it up 2 days before... then Basil''s post.

justa thought:

i know a lot of couples in recovery who have dealt with this issue. Has the rage/angry person been checked for hypoglycemia or pre diabetes? low blood sugar can cause a seemingly normal person to be irritable or fly into an unreasonable rage which then scares all the people around them. It''s an easily solvable problem solved by a regular small snacks. It''s a common problems among alcoholics too.

could be deeper too, but I would have a complete physical to rule this out.

 

[bookworm21]

Gypsy, I completely agree with the about the entire "dating face" thing. When my bf started dating a LONG time ago, we hardly ever fought. As we grew to be more comfortable with each other, we''d have our fights, some bad, some mild. Now, many years later, we fight about some really stupid stuff, but I find that we also let a lot of stupid stuff just slip by. And when we do fight, there are no grudges being held.

My point is that after so many years of learning how to fight with each other, we learned that there are fights worth fighting, and fights that are worth letting go. We learned to really listen to each other when something is wrong, rather than just fighting and getting angry. I don''t think we would have learned that without the fights we''ve had in our history to teach us.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/30/2006 1:42:34 PM
Author: Cinderella
Gypsy, I completely agree with the about the entire ''dating face'' thing. When my bf started dating a LONG time ago, we hardly ever fought. As we grew to be more comfortable with each other, we''d have our fights, some bad, some mild. Now, many years later, we fight about some really stupid stuff, but I find that we also let a lot of stupid stuff just slip by. And when we do fight, there are no grudges being held.

My point is that after so many years of learning how to fight with each other, we learned that there are fights worth fighting, and fights that are worth letting go. We learned to really listen to each other when something is wrong, rather than just fighting and getting angry. I don''t think we would have learned that without the fights we''ve had in our history to teach us.

Don''t want to betray confidences... but they both grew up with alcoholic parents who didn''t get recovery until they (the children) were 9-11 is years old. I think this is a big factor with them. My dad was an alcoholic and abusvie. But he abandoned us when I was four... so I was blessed with not having to deal with many things other''s have had to.

 

[bookworm21]

Ouch. I''m sorry to hear that they both had to deal with that. I can''t imagine how difficult it must have been. Hopefully, they''ll figure out how to work through their relationship without really emotionally hurting one another.

 

[saturn]

It''s interesting to see this topic come up because it''s something I''ve kind of been thinking about lately...

Namely, the fact that FI and I hardly ever fight. I mean, it''s not that we never, ever fight; but in the 6 years that we''ve been together, I think we''ve only had like 3 or 4 real fights. And even of those few fights, they''ve never been major enough for us to even temporarily break up. Sometimes I wonder if this is a bad sign. I know that FI is definitely uncomfortable with conflict, but that''s true regardless of whether it''s with me or with his siblings or with anyone. I''m not particularly afraid of conflict, but I''m pretty laid back so little things usually don''t get under my skin.

In reflecting on our relationship, I''m pretty confident that we''re fine. I genuinely believe that we''re both just naturally laid-back personalities. After having dated a wack-job in the past (mind games, constant fighting!), I really appreciate the lack of drama in our relationship. But it still kind of wierds me out, because I know that if someone else told me that they hardly ever fight, I''d consider it to be a red flag myself!

 

[Allisonfaye]

Gypsy: I am wondering it this is a self esteem issue?

They say they can predict whether a marriage will fail or survive by watching a couple fight for like 5 minutes.

I think this is why it is important not to get married too soon. If you are still in your ''dating face'' mode, you are in for a rude awakening after the wedding.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/30/2006 6:53:11 PM
Author: Allisonfaye
Gypsy: I am wondering it this is a self esteem issue?

They say they can predict whether a marriage will fail or survive by watching a couple fight for like 5 minutes.

I think this is why it is important not to get married too soon. If you are still in your ''dating face'' mode, you are in for a rude awakening after the wedding.

Really? I''ve never heard this... would love more info. And there are definitely some self esteem issues we''ve talked about that... I''m sure it contributes. Will have to mention LadyK''s hypoglyciemia thing....


I just want to address what Mara and others have said about it being very couple specific-- that not fighting works for some people... I agree with that. Absolutely. It''s a case by case thing... each couple is unique and their interactions, scripts, and relationship is unique as well... I guess my thing is neither of these couples are very laid back people... but maybe you are right and I''m projecting. I will have to keep that in mind in the future!