Tiaras

[prince.of.preslav]

No troubles, Danny! I adore Downton Abbey, so I don't mind a brief interruption of our discussion about tiaras to mention a few facts about the film ant the actual castle/family.

BTW, what's that thread abut DA? Sounds like something I'd like to join in

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

It's stunning!

These houses that haven't maintained their position in the way Cartier and VC&A have also intrigue me very much.

But I've always had the understaning that Bouchern is still a respected name among jewellery houses. Probably not as resepected as Cartier, VC&A, Harry Winston, but respected anyway. Is that not correct?
Surely to be worth a book like that (sort of Nedelhoffer's Cartier) there must be some respect and position. Or at least I think so.

Bobby

 

[Imdanny]

No troubles, Danny! I adore Downton Abbey, so I don't mind a brief interruption of our discussion about tiaras to mention a few facts about the film ant the actual castle/family.

BTW, what's that thread abut DA? Sounds like something I'd like to join in

Bobby

Oh, yes. That would be nice!

Hold on.

 

[Imdanny]

Here you go:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whos-watching-season-2-of-downtown-abby-starting-tomarrow.170324/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whos-watching-season-2-of-downtown-abby-starting-tomarrow.170324/[/URL]

re Boucheron, you might be right!

 

[LadyMaria]

In some internet ramblings, I found this picture of Vera Wang in a tiara-ish looking headpiece. I think she looks terrible, but I find it interesting that the tiara seems to be an ears of wheat motif...often used as a symbol of fertility and worn for weddings. Most appropriate for one of the world's best known wedding dress designers!

 

[prince.of.preslav]

In some internet ramblings, I found this picture of Vera Wang in a tiara-ish looking headpiece. I think she looks terrible, but I find it interesting that the tiara seems to be an ears of wheat motif...often used as a symbol of fertility and worn for weddings. Most appropriate for one of the world's best known wedding dress designers!

This piece looks very pretty, doesn't it? But then again don't I say this about most wheat and fringe tiaras? LoL
You know what I think about the placement of the tiara and the loose hair. But I'm not a world famous, eccentric designer. Nice symbolism, though (if it was intentional).

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Look what I found! It appears that Vera Wang wore this tiara (yes, it is an actual tiara) at the 13th Annual Warner Bros. and InStyle Golden Globe After Party
For yet another time I'm in love with a wreath tiara
Take a look:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-13th-annual-warner-bros-news-photo/137160164

 

[LadyMaria]

Look what I found! It appears that Vera Wang wore this tiara (yes, it is an actual tiara) at the 13th Annual Warner Bros. and InStyle Golden Globe After Party
For yet another time I'm in love with a wreath tiara
Take a look:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-13th-annual-warner-bros-news-photo/137160164

Your picture is much better than mine! I can see much more detail here. Thanks Bobby!

 

[prince.of.preslav]

You're wellcome, Maria!


Looking at some photos from Prince Joachim of Denmark & Marie Cavallier's 2008 wedding, I came across these rather close picture of Lady Moore wearing a floral tiara in diamonds and pearls. Since this is the only time that we saw her with a tiara at a white tie event, it might very well have been borrowed for the occasion. A pity that it was worn so flat on the head, almost like a headband... From other photos I've seen of Lady Moore she comes across as a person with a soft spot for (large) pearls... and who can blame her


http://www.ppe-agency.com/500px/May2008/PPE08052434.jpg


http://www.ppe-agency.com/500px/May2008/PPE08052455.jpg

 

[JewelFreak]

The tiara is magnificent (would also like to see it more upright so details were more visible), as is her necklace. Drool.

--- Laurie

 

[LadyMaria]

Yes, she shoudl have worn it upright, but at least her hair is up...it would have really been bad if she had left it down!

 

[AGBF]

I had to let Lady Maria know that I had mentioned her in another thread where tiaras were being discussed! Lady Maria, I do hope that you will have the time to read that thread and weigh in there! Bobby, maybe you will, too? And Laurie? Everyone else, too, of course!!!

Here is the link:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/buying-for-your-real-life-or-your-imaginary-life.173522/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/buying-for-your-real-life-or-your-imaginary-life.173522/[/URL]

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[LadyMaria]

A most thought provoking thread Deb...

Here is an interesting little auction item I stumbled across. The bottom of this tiara reminds me of Crown Princess Victoria's 6-button tiara.

http://www.polyvore.com/an_antique_diamond_necklace_tiara/thing?id=12060507

 

[LadyMaria]

And another tasty auction item...look at the size of these pearls! I can't decide if I would like it better if there were big diamonds in place of the pearls.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

And another tasty auction item...look at the size of these pearls! I can't decide if I would like it better if there were big diamonds in place of the pearls.

I shall mention that the tiara can also be taken off its frame and worn as a necklace.

Actually, it was one of two convertible pearl and diamond tiaras that was sold by Sotheby's a couple of years ago.
Here's the other one:

As tiara


As necklace


Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

A new member of Pricescope - Teriann - asked this in the Royal Jewels thread:

Hi! Loooonnnnnnggg time post stalker, first time poster, mostly because I've not had anything to add. However I did have a question after something I found last night doing research for a fiction novel I'm writing.

I found this tiara:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mZjHaum7_G8/T0F_BUhbLrI/AAAAAAAACC0/ah8tiQ2_zhY/s1600/walnut+acorn+diamond+tiara+crown+diadem.JPG

more specifically on this blog (it's a little ways down):
http://maries-jewels-royals.blogspot.com/2012_02_01_archive.html

The blog gives zero information on the tiara and I was wondering if anyone had seen this one before and maybe knew who the owner was by some slim chance. I'm not sure if I stumbled upon the link here or if it was something I found while I was gawking at the Strathmore Tiara again, but I thought if anyone would know it would be Bobby.

Dear, Teriann, once again thanks for trusting that I can help you solve this mistery!
Unfortunately, however, I don't know much about the tiara. All I know is that it was a made in the early 20th century for the Duke of Norfolk, either by Cartier or Gerrards. As I've mentioned before, I have Hans Nedelhoffer's wonderful book Cartier and there is a drawing of this particular tiara (it can't be mistaken!) in it. It is also mentioned that "The tiara exhibition organized by Cartier's in London in 1911included the oak-lead tiara of the Duchess of Norfolk.". Yet, however, I've also read that the tiara was made by Gerrards & Co., the then Crown Jeweler. Unfortunately, I'm not able to say for sure which House made this tiara, because of its unique design. Then again the fact that a drawing of the tiara was included and the brief mention of the jewel in the book about Catrier make me more inclined to believe that it's a piece by Cartier.

Anyway, thank for asking and I hope I've been at least a bit helpful

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I now remebered something else - the tiara was featured in the tiara exhibition at the V&A in 2002, and also in Munn's book. This is also where the photos of the oak-leaf tiara come from, so perhaps s.o. who has the book can also join in the discussion...

Bobby

 

[Teriann]

I now remebered something else - the tiara was featured in the tiara exhibition at the V&A in 2002, and also in Munn's book. This is also where the photos of the oak-leaf tiara come from, so perhaps s.o. who has the book can also join in the discussion...

Bobby

I actually ordered the book this afternoon. I'm excited to get it! I found a mention on a Southerby's auction (or rather a mention of one I suspected it might be) listing for a similar tiara. That listing said it was by Garrad's as I recall. If it is indeed the same Duke of Norfolk I found, he is the gentleman that married Lady Flora Hastings (The Duchess of Kent, Queen Victoria's Mother's Lady in waiting) and this tiara was for his second wife. Either way it's very pretty! It's a pity it took so long to find something about it when I searched 'oak leaf and acorn tiara' all I kept getting were entry's for Kate Middleton's earrings and tiara she wore on her wedding day.

Thank you for helping Bobby, you confirmed what I thought I had found earlier this afternoon!

 

[JewelFreak]

I found this online:

Gwendolen Constable Maxwell

In 1904, the 15th Duke of Norfolk bought a tiara in the form of oak leaves and acorns for his bride Gwendolen Constable Maxwell, from Garrard. In the language of stones, diamonds symbolise "forever". In the language of flowers, oak leaves denote the invincibility and strength of love, and acorns fecundity.This tiara was exhibited at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, 2004. Source 'The Lady' magazine

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I actually ordered the book this afternoon. I'm excited to get it!

That's great news! I'm looking forward to the section about the Norfolk tiara from the book

If it is indeed the same Duke of Norfolk I found, he is the gentleman that married Lady Flora Hastings (The Duchess of Kent, Queen Victoria's Mother's Lady in waiting) and this tiara was for his second wife.

Actually, The Duchess of Kent's infamous lady-in-waiting was the Lady Flora Elizabeth Rawdon-Hastings (1806–1839), daughter of the 1st Marquess of Hastings & the 6th Countess of Loudoun. She died unmarried.
The 15th Duke of Norfolk was firstly married to another Lady Flora - the Lady Flora Abney-Hastings, who was the daughter of the 1st Baron Donington & the 10th Countess of Loudoun. Lady Loudoun was a niece of Lady Flora Rawdon-Hastings, which makes things even more complicated

Either way it's very pretty!

Agree!

Thank you for helping Bobby, you confirmed what I thought I had found earlier this afternoon!

You're welcome!

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I found this online:

Gwendolen Constable Maxwell

In 1904, the 15th Duke of Norfolk bought a tiara in the form of oak leaves and acorns for his bride Gwendolen Constable Maxwell, from Garrard. In the language of stones, diamonds symbolise "forever". In the language of flowers, oak leaves denote the invincibility and strength of love, and acorns fecundity.This tiara was exhibited at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, 2004. Source 'The Lady' magazine

Even if we settle that the tiara was indeed made by Gerrards & Co., I still can't understand why it was mentioned in and a sketch of it was put in a book that deals exclusively with Cartier's work...

About the exhibition - I seem to recall that there were quite a lot of tiaras from the British and other royal families in this exhibit, among them several ones from the collections of HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and HRH the Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon, and that it was organised to mark HM the Queen's Golden Jubilee (or at least coincidenced with the event). If my recollection is correct, it is simply not possible to have been in 2004... Of course, it is possible that the tiara was returned to the V&A for another exhibition two years later.

Bobby

 

[JewelFreak]

Possibly it was returned again, Bobby, or the citation could be incorrect, though it seems to have come from a periodical of that time. There is an awful lot of incorrect information about historic jewels floating around -- sometimes takes some research to straighten it all out & sometimes it's never certain. I don't know why it would appear in a book on Cartier if Garrard's made it. I wish the jewelers had always put their hallmark on their pieces! It would make our lives so much easier.

--- Laurie

 

[sonudagr88]

Danny, I wondered the same about the Portland sale. According to what I found, the title went extinct when the 7th Duke died in 1990 without a male heir. His grandson lives at Welbeck Abbey, the family seat but, descended from the female line, I guess he can't inherit the title. The oldest daughter of the Duke owned almost the entire Welbeck estate. She died in 2008. Likely there were death duties to be paid, ergo, the sale. Couldn't dig up anything directly mentioning a reason.

 

[Teriann]

I actually ordered the book this afternoon. I'm excited to get it!

If it is indeed the same Duke of Norfolk I found, he is the gentleman that married Lady Flora Hastings (The Duchess of Kent, Queen Victoria's Mother's Lady in waiting) and this tiara was for his second wife.

Actually, The Duchess of Kent's infamous lady-in-waiting was the Lady Flora Elizabeth Rawdon-Hastings (1806–1839), daughter of the 1st Marquess of Hastings & the 6th Countess of Loudoun. She died unmarried.
The 15th Duke of Norfolk was firstly married to another Lady Flora - the Lady Flora Abney-Hastings, who was the daughter of the 1st Baron Donington & the 10th Countess of Loudoun. Lady Loudoun was a niece of Lady Flora Rawdon-Hastings, which makes things even more complicated

Damn, why must they all have the same name? *sigh* Oh well, here is hoping the book comes today...waiting has never been a virtue of mine

 

[Teriann]

Possibly it was returned again, Bobby, or the citation could be incorrect, though it seems to have come from a periodical of that time. There is an awful lot of incorrect information about historic jewels floating around -- sometimes takes some research to straighten it all out & sometimes it's never certain. I don't know why it would appear in a book on Cartier if Garrard's made it. I wish the jewelers had always put their hallmark on their pieces! It would make our lives so much easier.

--- Laurie

Amen....however that would take away all the fun of looking for the right answer no? Maybe I'm the only one that enjoys some intense digging

 

[Teriann]

I found this online:

Gwendolen Constable Maxwell

In 1904, the 15th Duke of Norfolk bought a tiara in the form of oak leaves and acorns for his bride Gwendolen Constable Maxwell, from Garrard. In the language of stones, diamonds symbolise "forever". In the language of flowers, oak leaves denote the invincibility and strength of love, and acorns fecundity.This tiara was exhibited at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, 2004. Source 'The Lady' magazine

Even if we settle that the tiara was indeed made by Gerrards & Co., I still can't understand why it was mentioned in and a sketch of it was put in a book that deals exclusively with Cartier's work...

About the exhibition - I seem to recall that there were quite a lot of tiaras from the British and other royal families in this exhibit, among them several ones from the collections of HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and HRH the Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon, and that it was organised to mark HM the Queen's Golden Jubilee (or at least coincidenced with the event). If my recollection is correct, it is simply not possible to have been in 2004... Of course, it is possible that the tiara was returned to the V&A for another exhibition two years later.

Bobby

Hmmm this is the book I bought (which apparently has not even left California yet *cry*).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1851493751/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

This is the link to the southerby's auctiou where I found the reference to the *possible* tiara....specifically the last three lines of the last paragraph. I didn't even realize until I stumbled across this that there even was a book about tiaras ( ).
http://www.sothebys.com/en/catalogues/ecatalogue.html/2008/magnificent-jewels-noble-jewels-and-jewels-from-the-collection-of-lily-marinho-ge0802#/r=/en/ecat.fhtml.GE0802.html+r.m=/en/ecat.lot.GE0802.html/398/+r.o=/en/ecat.notes.GE0802.html/398/

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Possibly it was returned again, Bobby, or the citation could be incorrect, though it seems to have come from a periodical of that time. There is an awful lot of incorrect information about historic jewels floating around -- sometimes takes some research to straighten it all out & sometimes it's never certain. I don't know why it would appear in a book on Cartier if Garrard's made it. I wish the jewelers had always put their hallmark on their pieces! It would make our lives so much easier.

--- Laurie

Agree, Laurie! And it's so very frustrating when the story of well known jewels with well known "roots" is still mistaken... For example, some people still reffer to the fringe tiara that Princess Elizabeth wore at her 1947 wedding as the Hannoverian fringe when it has nothing to do with the House of Hannover...
You possibly don't know (just like I don't), but was there any tiara-releted exhibition at the V&A in 2004?
Anyway... I'm pretty sure that the jeweller has made a hallmark on the tiara. If not on the jewel itself, then on the box in which it is stored (and, of course, which we haven't seen).

Amen....however that would take away all the fun of looking for the right answer no? Maybe I'm the only one that enjoys some intense digging

I'm sure that other posters here (myself included) enjoy serching for more info about certain jewels. It's just that this is all that is published about this particular tiara As you saw, with my digging a few other questions arose and (sadly) few of them were ansewed.

Best,
Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Hmmm this is the book I bought (which apparently has not even left California yet *cry*).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1851493751/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I hope it arrives sooner, Teriann! I'm really looking forward to what Munn wrote about it
BTW, it's nice to see that you got MNega Munn! Certainly you'll spend many happy hours reading it (or at least that's what I've read)

This is the link to the southerby's auctiou where I found the reference to the *possible* tiara....specifically the last three lines of the last paragraph. I didn't even realize until I stumbled across this that there even was a book about tiaras ( ).
http://www.sothebys.com/en/catalogues/ecatalogue.html/2008/magnificent-jewels-noble-jewels-and-jewels-from-the-collection-of-lily-marinho-ge0802#/r=/en/ecat.fhtml.GE0802.html+r.m=/en/ecat.lot.GE0802.html/398/+r.o=/en/ecat.notes.GE0802.html/398/

For some reason neither of the browsers that I'm using lets be open the e-catalogue... and that's how it's been for the past few months... no matter on what computer I'm sitting. Would you, please, quote these last three lines for me?
Thanks in advance!

Bobby

 

[Teriann]

Hmmm this is the book I bought (which apparently has not even left California yet *cry*).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1851493751/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I hope it arrives sooner, Teriann! I'm really looking forward to what Munn wrote about it
BTW, it's nice to see that you got MNega Munn! Certainly you'll spend many happy hours reading it (or at least that's what I've read)

This is the link to the southerby's auctiou where I found the reference to the *possible* tiara....specifically the last three lines of the last paragraph. I didn't even realize until I stumbled across this that there even was a book about tiaras ( ).
http://www.sothebys.com/en/catalogues/ecatalogue.html/2008/magnificent-jewels-noble-jewels-and-jewels-from-the-collection-of-lily-marinho-ge0802#/r=/en/ecat.fhtml.GE0802.html+r.m=/en/ecat.lot.GE0802.html/398/+r.o=/en/ecat.notes.GE0802.html/398/

For some reason neither of the browsers that I'm using lets be open the e-catalogue... and that's how it's been for the past few months... no matter on what computer I'm sitting. Would you, please, quote these last three lines for me?
Thanks in advance!

Bobby

I got my book today, its really hard to contain my excitement. I've snuck it out from under my desk a few times to take a peak. I wish I'd gotten the mail before I went to lunch and I could have spent my lunch break looking at it. What I have seen, the pictures are absolute aweinspiring. They look great on the computer but nothing truely compairs to an inhand print.

Page 239 was as promised, the oak leaf taira is infact the one from the Norfolk estate and the book states Gerrards (I will take Munn's word on it ). I will post more once I get home.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Thanks, Teriann! I will also take Munn's word. Can't wait for the further details when you're at home

Bobby