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Date: 7/14/2008 1:46:29 AM
Author: TravelingGal
My father died two weeks ago, and my mother was by his side.


They had a marriage that most people would have said should be ended. My father was abusive in their early marriage...I''m sure there were all sorts of reasons. Even I wondered why she stayed with him.


She took care him him for many many years when he got sick, finally only putting him in a nursing home when one day they both collapsed when she was taking him to the hospital (he''s diabetic and no longer had use of his legs and she didn''t have the strength to get him out of the car).


She visited him every day, all day. Liquified food for him and spoon fed him when he could no longer eat solids. Changed his diaper.


In his last days, (when he was able to speak), they talked, and he was full of regrets about their life and their marriage. She told me how much she felt that he did love her...he wanted no other person more by his side. He hated to sleep because he just wanted to look at her since time was so short. The nursing staff often told me that she was the pillar of strength, faithfulness, and love...something they didn''t see very often as old people are often abandoned there to die.


He stopped speaking about 5 days before he died, and didn''t have the strength to open his eyes. We got a call in the morning to come, as he wouldn''t be with us much longer. I got to his bedside to find my mom holding his hand, whispering words of love into his ear, and singing hymns with all the strength her voice could muster so he wouldn''t be afraid to die. She never saw it because she was crying herself, but I saw that he strained to open his eyes for the last time and looked toward her before he took his final breaths and died.


I would never say that a woman should stay in an abusive relationship. But for whatever reason, my mother did and they went through many stages in their marriage. When my father died in her arms, knowing she was faithful and loving until the end, I can honestly say I was so proud of her. She made me realize marriage is a commitment, and that I truly want to be there until death do us part for TGuy...even through the tough times.
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Never before on PS have I gotten emotional over a post, but that was so poignant and elegantly written, I am wiping away tears.
I don''t know if I would have stayed in an abusive marriage, but I admire your mother''s courage and resolve. Your story reminds me of what is truly important.
Thanks for sharing.
I am sorry for the loss of your father.
 
T Gal, your mom is a brave and courageous woman. Your father was lucky to have her. I am sorry for your loss.


I admire someone taking their vows seriously but there are times where no amount of determination is going to work. I would really prefer not to raise kids in an abusive home as that is not an ideal environment. I have one life, and I would like to feel okay in my choices. I do not think every day in marriage is happy and terrific, but I still would want to be assured of being safe emotionally and physically, and have that for my kids too. But I certainly have respect for someone who, for whatever reason, really took their vows seriously to the end.
 
Date: 7/14/2008 9:34:12 AM
Author: krispi
T-Gal, your story brought tears to my eyes - very inspiring.
[/u]Everyone has different circumstances, and you can''t make anyone else do something they don''t want to do, [/u] but to me those vows mean that you try whatever you can try to work it out rather than leaving at the first sign of unhappiness.
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Wow, TGal, what an amazing story...so touching.
thank you so much for sharing that intimate story *heart*

Marriage is so personal, isn''t it...
 
Date: 7/14/2008 1:46:29 AM
Author: TravelingGal
My father died two weeks ago, and my mother was by his side.


They had a marriage that most people would have said should be ended. My father was abusive in their early marriage...I''m sure there were all sorts of reasons. Even I wondered why she stayed with him.


She took care him him for many many years when he got sick, finally only putting him in a nursing home when one day they both collapsed when she was taking him to the hospital (he''s diabetic and no longer had use of his legs and she didn''t have the strength to get him out of the car).


She visited him every day, all day. Liquified food for him and spoon fed him when he could no longer eat solids. Changed his diaper.


In his last days, (when he was able to speak), they talked, and he was full of regrets about their life and their marriage. She told me how much she felt that he did love her...he wanted no other person more by his side. He hated to sleep because he just wanted to look at her since time was so short. The nursing staff often told me that she was the pillar of strength, faithfulness, and love...something they didn''t see very often as old people are often abandoned there to die.


He stopped speaking about 5 days before he died, and didn''t have the strength to open his eyes. We got a call in the morning to come, as he wouldn''t be with us much longer. I got to his bedside to find my mom holding his hand, whispering words of love into his ear, and singing hymns with all the strength her voice could muster so he wouldn''t be afraid to die. She never saw it because she was crying herself, but I saw that he strained to open his eyes for the last time and looked toward her before he took his final breaths and died.


I would never say that a woman should stay in an abusive relationship. But for whatever reason, my mother did and they went through many stages in their marriage. When my father died in her arms, knowing she was faithful and loving until the end, I can honestly say I was so proud of her. She made me realize marriage is a commitment, and that I truly want to be there until death do us part for TGuy...even through the tough times.
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your mother sounds like a truly selfless, loving individual. i feel that when her time comes she will have no regrets. her love is an inspiration.

allison krauss has a song that i find so touching. one of the lines is something like this: i want a simple love like that always giving never asking back and when i''m in my final hour looking back i hope i had a simple love like that.
 
TG
sorry to hear about your father.
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TravelingGal, that was a beautiful story and it brought tears to my eyes. I''m glad your parents were able to find peace in their marriage, even if it did take them many years to get to that point. I only hope I can be as good a wife to my DH as your mom was to your dad. I am so sorry for your loss. ((((HUGS))))

Now, here''s my take on the original question:

I just turned 30 a few weeks ago, and I''m on my second marriage. Most people are surprised when they hear that . . . they think I''m too young at 30 to have been married, divorced, and married again already. They often ask what went wrong in my first marriage that caused me to file for divorce. I tell them this: "My XH and I divorced for religious reasons . . . he thought he was God and I disagreed." (It''s funny because it''s true!)
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My XH had a drug problem and he was very controlling and abusive. He conveniently waited to show his true colors until after we were married. Don''t get me wrong, he was never perfect. But, it''s funny how things gradually worsened as our relationship progressed. At first, when we were just dating, he was on his "best behavior" I guess. Then, about a year later we moved in together, and things went slightly downhill. Nothing awful, but in hindsight, I should have seen some serious red flags. About a year after that we got engaged, and things got a good bit worse. I chalked it up to stress from planning the wedding, and rationalized to myself that things would be SO much better after we got married and we could just relax again. However, I couldn''t have been more wrong. After the wedding, he became much more abusive. It started while we were on our honeymoon, and got steadily worse from that point on. The abuse was mainly verbal, emotional and financial, but there was some physical abuse from time to time. He would always apologize profusely and promise never to do it again, and I always bought it because I loved him and I wanted to believe him. Then, not quite three years into our marriage, we had one really awful night. This was definitely the straw that broke the camel''s back for me. I basically gave him an ultimatum the next day . . . either we go to counseling together, or I''m leaving you right now, make your choice. He grudgingly agreed to the counseling, but it didn''t work. I have since discovered that joint counseling is one of the WORST things you can do in an abusive relationship . . . the abuser needs to be in dedicated abuser''s therapy, NOT joint counseling, because abusers tend to use whatever comes out in joint sessions as "ammunition" for more abuse. If only I had known that then! Needless to say, the counseling didn''t work and the marriage continued to deteriorate. I wound up cheating on my XH with my now DH. I''m not proud of that, and I realize that it was the wrong thing to do. But, at the time, I had already "checked out" of the marriage emotionally, and I think he had too. He was just drawing it out for the sake of causing me more pain and keeping me under his control. I moved out about two weeks before our third anniversary, and I filed for divorce shortly thereafter.

We married young. We were only 22, and I think we should have waited. If I had to do it over again, I would have definitely waited until we were older. That would have given me more time to see what was wrong with our relationship, and hopefully I would never have married him in the first place. We were only 25 when the divorce was finalized.

DH and I married when I was 27 and he was 26. (Yep, I''m a cradle-robber . . . he''s five whole months younger than I am! LOL!) We''ll celebrate our third anniversary one week from today. This is really a milestone for us, since neither of our first marriages made it to three years. (DH and his XW divorced shortly after their second anniversary.) DH and I have been friends for about ten years, and we feel so stupid for initially marrying other people! If we had known then what we know now, we wouldn''t have wasted our time with anyone else. We''re unbelievably happy . . . so much so that we even disgust our friends! LOL! I can honestly say that my best day with my XH was not even close to as good as my worst day with DH. So, I think second marriages really can work. At least, it''s definitely working for us!

Also, my parents are a good example. My Mom and Stepdad are both on their third marriage, and they couldn''t be happier. My Dad and Stepmom have been married for 25 years, and its my Dad''s second marriage and my Stepmom''s third. So, in my experience, second and third marriages can and do last.
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Date: 7/14/2008 9:07:58 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 7/14/2008 8:44:38 AM
Author: purrfectpear
My parents are still married and if it takes ''till death do you part'' to end it, then a merciful God would have taken one of them. I can honestly say I don''t think I''ve ever seen a more dysfunctional, sad, destructive, marriage. There is no physical abuse, but the verbal abuse is beyond belief
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It''s their lives, but it''s been a total waste of some 56 years.
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This is exactly the type of situation I was thinking about when I responded. I would not be miserable like this for my entire married life-I would just get a divorce.

I don''t want to put words in your mouth, purrfectpear, but I''m sure your parents made their children''s lives miserable to some extent also because you had to witness their verbal abuse and dysfunctional relationship.
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Let''s just say I have not had the best of relationships since my role model of a healthy one was non-existant.
 
Thanks for sharing your story, TG. I too am wiping away my tears. I''m sorry for your loss.
 
I have been married 3 times.

I was married to my first husband 4 years, and he was cheating on me the whole time. He had sex addiction issues... the worst things you can imagine...
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My second husband was an Associate Pastor, and a pilar of our community. He flipped out about 1 month into our marriage, started smoking pot, getting drunk, and hitting me. I lived with a smile on my face for 4 years before I finally couldn''t take it anymore and had to have him physically removed from my home by police... still have a standing restraining order against him
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When I met my DH I had vowed that I was never going to marry again.

I have always valued the sanctity of marriage. My parents have been married for 38 years. They are still totally in love.

But after 2 rounds of misery I was done!

I would have stayed married to my first huband until I died, but he broke our vows.
I would have stayed married to my second husband until I died, but he broke our vows.

I hate that the men I married DIDN''T value those vows.

THANK GOD there are still some good men!!!

AND THANK GOD I''ve got one now!!!
 
Tgal, i am very sorry to hear of your loss. Your mom is a strong woman with a beautiful heart. Not that i agree with staying in an abusive relationship, but she probably has her own reasons for staying on and probably found the strength to stay on because she loves him and her children so much that she wants it to work.

I for one, believe in till death do us part. When two people are truly in love with each other, even one lifetime is not enough.
 
AGBF/Deb, we left it out of our vows too. We said "all the days of our lives" or something like that. How horrible I cannot remember!

TGal, that was a touching post. Thank you for sharing. I agree that people chose to stay in relationships for different reasons. I try not to judge since it is hard to know what REALLY goes on behind closed doors.

As for divorce both my parents and inlaws have been married for over 30 years. I certainly do not planned on getting a divorce but I would never, never want to stay in an unhealthy relationship. Sometimes people grow apart, things happen. I do not believe that there is only one person out their for everyone (soul mates). DH and I have already been through some very tough times. Fortunately it brought us closer but I can see why some people make the choice to move on. I think *most* people believe in their love and relationship 100% on their wedding day.
 
Date: 7/14/2008 1:46:29 AM
Author: TravelingGal
My father died two weeks ago, and my mother was by his side.

They had a marriage that most people would have said should be ended. My father was abusive in their early marriage...I''m sure there were all sorts of reasons. Even I wondered why she stayed with him.

She took care him him for many many years when he got sick, finally only putting him in a nursing home when one day they both collapsed when she was taking him to the hospital (he''s diabetic and no longer had use of his legs and she didn''t have the strength to get him out of the car).

She visited him every day, all day. Liquified food for him and spoon fed him when he could no longer eat solids. Changed his diaper.

In his last days, (when he was able to speak), they talked, and he was full of regrets about their life and their marriage. She told me how much she felt that he did love her...he wanted no other person more by his side. He hated to sleep because he just wanted to look at her since time was so short. The nursing staff often told me that she was the pillar of strength, faithfulness, and love...something they didn''t see very often as old people are often abandoned there to die.

He stopped speaking about 5 days before he died, and didn''t have the strength to open his eyes. We got a call in the morning to come, as he wouldn''t be with us much longer. I got to his bedside to find my mom holding his hand, whispering words of love into his ear, and singing hymns with all the strength her voice could muster so he wouldn''t be afraid to die. She never saw it because she was crying herself, but I saw that he strained to open his eyes for the last time and looked toward her before he took his final breaths and died.

I would never say that a woman should stay in an abusive relationship. But for whatever reason, my mother did and they went through many stages in their marriage. When my father died in her arms, knowing she was faithful and loving until the end, I can honestly say I was so proud of her. She made me realize marriage is a commitment, and that I truly want to be there until death do us part for TGuy...even through the tough times.
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I am sitting here, with tears on my face. Your story was so touching.

I have to say first, that I am so sorry for your loss. I deal with the fear of my father dying, just about everyday, and I can''t even begin to imagine how you are feeling right now. My heart goes out to you!

Your mother sounds like a very strong woman, who, for reasons that we may never know, gave your father the time he needed to be a better man. Perhaps she saw something in him, that no one else did, and knew that if he was nurtured, and for lack of a better word, tolerated, he would grow into who she loved for so long!

My hat is off to her, and I pray that we can all be as faithful, and steady as she was.

She is a hero.
 
TGal, the story of your parents brought tears to my eyes as well. What your mother did requires enviable strength. She's the kind of woman I wish I could be.

I'm going to be blatently honest in this thread and say that sometimes I go through periods where I wonder why I felt the need to be married. There were certain things I was not willing to do outside of marriage (buy a house, have a family, etc.), but now that I'm on the "other side" I don't feel there is anything I can do in my marriage that I could not have done outside of marriage or on my own. When we were discussing our vows, I made sure our officiant did not use the term "unconditional love" because I feel that is something that can only exist between a parent and a child, not between two adults. My love is conditional, which is why there are dealbreakers (abuse, infidelity, or simply if one gives up and puts no more effort into the marriage).

People always say that it takes strength to leave a relationship, and that is true. But in a situation like TGal's mother, what she did required even more strength, and I really admire her for that.

I remember when I was young I was listening to an interview with a couple that had been married 60+ years, and you know how the interviewer always asks "What's the key to marriage?" Her response was: "we never wanted a divorce at the same time". I always liked that answer because I think it's very truthful.
 
Date: 7/14/2008 1:04:46 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
TGal, the story of your parents brought tears to my eyes as well. What your mother did requires enviable strength. She''s the kind of woman I wish I could be.

I''m going to be blatently honest in this thread and say that sometimes I go through periods where I wonder why I felt the need to be married. There were certain things I was not willing to do outside of marriage (buy a house, have a family, etc.), but now that I''m on the ''other side'' I don''t feel there is anything I can do in my marriage that I could not have done outside of marriage or on my own. When we were discussing our vows, I made sure our officiant did not use the term ''unconditional love'' because I feel that is something that can only exist between a parent and a child, not between two adults. My love is conditional, which is why there are dealbreakers (abuse, infidelity, or simply if one gives up and puts no more effort into the marriage).

People always say that it takes strength to leave a relationship, and that is true. But in a situation like TGal''s mother, what she did required even more strength, and I really admire her for that.

I remember when I was young I was listening to an interview with a couple that had been married 60+ years, and you know how the interviewer always asks ''What''s the key to marriage?'' Her response was: ''we never wanted a divorce at the same time''. I always liked that answer because I think it''s very truthful.
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THAT''S the best!!! I love that! haha!!!
 
Date: 7/14/2008 1:04:46 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
TGal, the story of your parents brought tears to my eyes as well. What your mother did requires enviable strength. She''s the kind of woman I wish I could be.

I''m going to be blatently honest in this thread and say that sometimes I go through periods where I wonder why I felt the need to be married. There were certain things I was not willing to do outside of marriage (buy a house, have a family, etc.), but now that I''m on the ''other side'' I don''t feel there is anything I can do in my marriage that I could not have done outside of marriage or on my own. When we were discussing our vows, I made sure our officiant did not use the term ''unconditional love'' because I feel that is something that can only exist between a parent and a child, not between two adults. My love is conditional, which is why there are dealbreakers (abuse, infidelity, or simply if one gives up and puts no more effort into the marriage).

People always say that it takes strength to leave a relationship, and that is true. But in a situation like TGal''s mother, what she did required even more strength, and I really admire her for that.

I remember when I was young I was listening to an interview with a couple that had been married 60+ years, and you know how the interviewer always asks ''What''s the key to marriage?'' Her response was: ''we never wanted a divorce at the same time''. I always liked that answer because I think it''s very truthful.
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NEL, I completely agree with this! My XH always tried to make me feel guilty because my love for him had conditions, and he thought I should love him unconditionally. Well, my "conditions" are the same as yours . . . I expect to be treated well and not abused. He didn''t meet that particular condition, and that''s why I left.

You mentioned that one dealbreaker would be "simply if one gives up and puts no more effort into the marriage." This is exactly what happened in DH''s first marriage. His XW simply stopped caring, and nothing he did or said changed that, so he left her and filed for divorce.

I do think that love between two people is always conditional to some extent, and there are always going to be dealbreakers. We just have to make sure we know what the other person''s dealbreakers are, and that they know what ours are, and hope for the best, I guess.
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WOW T-gal---your story is so touching. Thank you so much for sharing that with all of us. My sympathies to you and your family. I must say I admire your mom--what a strong and courageous woman.

I had a couple of thoughts on the divorce issue here--

First, on the table of percentages of marriages that make it to 5,10, 15 even 50 years may be a little skewed. The reason I say this is because the longer we are married, the more likelihood that something may happen to end a marriage OTHER than divorce. I am assuming that those percentages were purely marriages in general, not taking into account divorce only. For me, both sets of grandparents never made it to the 50 year mark. One did not make it to the 35 year mark. Not because of divorce, but due to death. One was married 33 years, and grandpa died suddenly of cancer, and the other was married 47 years when my grandma broke her hip, got pneumonia, and died suddenly. Neither grandparent remarried. My DH''s grandparents never made it to 50 years either--neither of them divorced either. Death separated them way before the 50 year mark. With many people waiting until later in life to marry, there may be several couples that do not reach marriage anniversary milestones, but for other tragic reasons. Just a thought that those statistics may not be as grim as we think they are--yes, divorce plays a large hand, but it can be other things too.

As for second marriages, I think the situation you are in determines the successfulness of the second marriage. I know that second marriages that blend families (his kids and her kids) have a much lower success rate due to the stress that blending families places on all parties involved. There are "serial marriers" who marry over and over but never fully recognize THEIR part in the failure of past marriages. Some people just think that a different partner will fix everything, and sadly, that is not the case.

Divorce happens. I have been there, and its not fun. In my case, it was my ex cheating on me. Not once, but a few times. They were not 1 night stands, they were "relationships" and I realized after the 3rd time he did it that I could not stay. BUT, I know that even though he was severely flawed in the "keep it in your pants" department, I had a personal role in the demise of our marriage too. I had anger management issues with him, and there were times I would ignore him for days on end. Not my finer moment. Yes, he brought out these nasty qualities in me, but I should have done my part (see a counselor, etc) to quelch these things and make me a better person. Would the divorce have happened anyways? Yes. I have zero tolerance for philandering. But I learned a lot about myself too and made some positive changes that believe have strengthened my second marriage.

For all of you who have been down the abusive path, bless all of you. I dated an abusive man and it was the single most emotional shattering experience of my life. Even more-so than my cheating ex husband. You are stripped and robbed of all self esteem and you live in fear everyday. I applaud you all for getting the courage to leave, and loving yourself to be the person you are today.
 
Date: 7/14/2008 9:31:38 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
Date: 7/14/2008 7:07:29 AM

Author: Independent Gal

My father changes wives like some people change their socks.
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lucky guy! is he upgrading each time?
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Alas no. My mother, his first wife (they married at 19) is still a knockout with a bikini body (minus the scar she just acquired) at the age of 61. She is the kindest, most selfless, most giving, most loving, most wonderful person I know. She raised three children with never a thought for herself, she got a Ph.D. in the middle of it, and she made such a significant contribution to the world that she was awarded a special medal by our head of state. Despite that, you will never see her draw attention to herself. But when you pay attention to her, you find that she's mesmerizingly charming. Not in a fake way, but in the way that people who are truly loving and good are charming. You're drawn to them because they're profoundly beautiful inside. That's my mother. Everybody remembers my mother and everybody is touched by her. Even her surgeon (she had a tumor removed last week) paid a visit to make sure she was adjusting OK to being home, and he gave her a big kiss when he left.

That's what my dad gave up (cheating all the way) for his second wife, who was very mean and depressed and sent them reeling into debt.

His most recent wife is nicer, I guess.

But my mother - and I'm not just saying this because she is my mother - my mother is a diamond of startling beauty. His latest wife is a decent amethyst of a woman.

I only hope that I can be half the wife and mother that mom is.

Dad's loss.
 
I don''t think anything is forever. Mistakes and unexpected events happen. I love my husband. Right now at least, but there are many reasons I''d leave. I also don''t think staying until death is necessarily a good thing. My parents don''t have a happy relationship nor do my only living grandparents. I think more recent generations acknowledge that sometimes leaving or giving up is the right thing to do in their situation. There''s no harm in that.

I''ll let you know on my death bed if til death do you part, which wasn''t a part of our vows as English vows are different to the standard American ones, is passe for our relationship.
 
Date: 7/14/2008 8:44:38 AM
Author: purrfectpear
My parents are still married and if it takes ''till death do you part'' to end it, then a merciful God would have taken one of them. I can honestly say I don''t think I''ve ever seen a more dysfunctional, sad, destructive, marriage. There is no physical abuse, but the verbal abuse is beyond belief
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It''s their lives, but it''s been a total waste of some 56 years.
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That sums it up for my grandparents! And probably my parents. The older I get the less I''m shielded from it. I really love and like my mother and love my father but I feel so pulled by them and their behaviour. I want to be left out of it so badly.
 
Tgal - I''m sorry for your loss. You mother sounds like an amazing woman with incredible strength and characher. (and I''m sure she passed that on to you!!!
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)
 
TravelingGal: I am so sorry to hear about your Dad. Take care of yourself, and your wonderful mom.
 
I don''t believe in death do us part. I am on the fence about reincarnation
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so I plan to make the most of the life I have. If that means leaving when FI and I are no longer happy, so be it. Do I love him and plan to be with him forever? Of course, or I wouldn''t marry him. Would I ever put myself in a situation where I didn''t have money or the ability to provide for myself if something hapened on the assumption it won''t? Hell no.

Maybe it comes from my parents. They have been very happily married for almost 25 years and I see no reason they won''t be for another 25; however, it is the second marriage for them both. My mom''s first cheated on her so she left. My dad''s I don''t know much about because he doesn''t talk about her, but people who know his ex but don''t know who my dad is often refer to her as the "wicked witch of the west" in my presence. They were together 11 years, which apperently goes to show what a saint my dad is. The worst thing he has ever said about her is "well, I certainly traded up the second time".

So to me, if I am not as happy with FI as my parents are, we may decide to move on, no harm, no foul. We are good people and we deserve happiness, even if, unfortunately, it is not with each other.
 
Tgal- thank you for sharing something so personal and private. I''m sitting here with tears in my eyes, because I am so moved by what you wrote. I want to extend my sincerest condolences for your father''s passing. I hope he was able to see your beautiful daughter before he was too sick.
 
Date: 7/14/2008 12:59:51 AM
Author: HollyS
Marriage (or divorce) should not be taken lightly. In some Christian denominations, we believe that the marriage ceremony is a sacrament, and the marriage itself is a sacrament. It is to be nurtured, loved, and respected . . . along with the person you married. It is a covenant between the marriage partners. It is that very sacrificial and covenantial (binding) ceremony that many gay people are fighting so strongly to have the right to do. They understand how important the mere symbolism of that commitment is.

Marriage is not for people who want: a ring. A wedding. A roommate. A child. A provider. A sexual partner. Marriage is for people who want to ''become one'' with their partner.

Divorce will happen. To people who do not share mutual respect, love, or commitment. Divorce is never ''no fault''. One or both are guilty of breaking their covenant with the other.
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I agree completely.
 
Interesting thread.

Our vows stated "...as long as we both shall live..." and we do believe in that. I know that there are valid reasons for divorce (abuse, infidelity, etc.) but I think a lot of people get divorced without really giving marriage a fighting chance. It is A LOT of work, and sometimes the easy thing is to walk out... it takes strength and determination and tenacity to ride out the (inevitable) storms.

In our case, we knew that we made a committment for "forever" to each other... so when the hard times came, our focus was always on how to "fix it" or "get through it", rather than how to "end it". I think that mindset is very important.
 
Luckily FI and I both have one marriage parents....his father passed a couple of weeks in to our relationship, but they were married 45 years. Mine have been together 35.

We are going into this with all seriousness, til death. It is a daunting thing, but after 4 and a half years together I know what I am signing up for and God willing we will have a beautiful long life together.
 
Thanks all for your kind words and condolences. My father is no longer suffering, so that''s a great thing! And yes, my mom is an amazing woman.

Even though my mom never divorced my dad, I would be really hard pressed to stay in a marriage with domestic abuse. I just couldn''t do that to my kid. The funny thing is, our family life definitely molded who my brother and I are today, and for the most part we turned out the stronger for it. Mostly, it gave us a crazy sense of humor...we can find almost anything funny. Maybe it was a survival technique all those years. But we both know that life is short, enjoy it, and cherish your loved ones (my brother is truly a prince-charming of a husband to my SIL). Not a bad lesson to learn from a few beatings.
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The traditionalist in me says "you betcha." The realist in me says "there are exceptions to every rule." I can''t imagine having gotten married with divorce being a way to opt out. I''m in this, good and bad, forever. But I can see how one might experience things in their relationship that would make them change their mind.
 
Date: 7/14/2008 10:08:50 PM
Author: Lynn B
Interesting thread.

Our vows stated ''...as long as we both shall live...'' and we do believe in that. I know that there are valid reasons for divorce (abuse, infidelity, etc.) but I think a lot of people get divorced without really giving marriage a fighting chance. It is A LOT of work, and sometimes the easy thing is to walk out... it takes strength and determination and tenacity to ride out the (inevitable) storms.

In our case, we knew that we made a committment for ''forever'' to each other... so when the hard times came, our focus was always on how to ''fix it'' or ''get through it'', rather than how to ''end it''. I think that mindset is very important.
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I agree with this 100%!
 
I don't think it's passé, either. I plan on using it in the vows as of now. FI and I both believe it. One thing that bothers me is that it actually ends at death. I guess it's so the person can have a life after the other one is gone, I don't know. Or because we don't know what goes on after we die? I am just a very spiritual person and to me I don't think a lifetime-love ends at death.
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ETA: I forgot to say this, but of course I agree with everyone that says there are exceptions to the rule. Marriage is in my eyes a kind of a contract still and if someone completely changes for the bad then they're violating their end. So something has to happen there to work that out and sometimes it just can't be worked out unfortunately, but I would do everything I could to prevent a divorce.
 
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