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To buy or not to buy...royal blue sapphire

Stevie G

Rough_Rock
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Mar 10, 2020
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I am entertaining the idea of purchasing a royal blue sapphire with a GIC certificate. It is 1.68 carats and natural and unheated.
It is advertised as loupe clean and is oval mixed cut.
A friend has suggested that it suffers from alot of extinction, hence the great price, as potentially if as advertised, it would be an AAA grade, Sri Lankan sapphire and roughly worth £4500.
I have attached pics and a copy of the GIC certificate.
Any thoughts, opinions and guidance would be hugely appreciated.
Many thanks in advance, Steve View attachment 740271Screenshot_20200309-040840_eBay.jpgScreenshot_20200308-223718_Samsung Internet.jpgScreenshot_20200306-145928_eBay.jpgScreenshot_20200309-040858_eBay.jpgScreenshot_20200305-211517_eBay.jpg
 
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I can't see any of the attachments. And the distinction of AAA doesn't mean anything. From the other post you made it looks very dark to me. How much are they charging?
 
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Let me try the attachments again....£1200
 
I can't see any of the attachments. And the distinction of AAA doesn't mean anything. From the other post you made it looks very dark to me. How much are they charging?

They appear to
I can't see any of the attachments. And the distinction of AAA doesn't mean anything. From the other post you made it looks very dark to me. How much are they charging?

The attachments appear to me...weird! There are 4 pics of the stone and 1 of the certificate
 
The attachments work now! Its is highly improbable that the stone is worth close to 4500. It's very dark and will likely look almost black in most lights or when set. I wouldn't pay much at all for the stone given how it looks. And I dont know how valid the cert is
 
Yep, I've just logged out and back in again....the post is there with all 5 attachments....
I will check again tomorrow but have to go now....
 
The attachments work now! Its is highly improbable that the stone is worth close to 4500. It's very dark and will likely look almost black in most lights or when set. I wouldn't pay much at all for the stone given how it looks. And I dont know how valid the cert is

The certificate is real and I've contacted them by email to confirm. Admittedly, it is not from one of the more internationally recognised gem labs, but they are reasonably well known (from what I can glean from the internet)
 
Looks very dark in tone. Once set and in less than ideal lighting it might be pretty much ink blue / black to look at.
As for the certificate, it’s not a recognised lab. I think for an unheated status, given that the gem seems crystal clear, I’d be wanting a Premium lab report Ie AGS or similar to confirm.
And I’m not sure how it goes from being worth 1200 pounds for you to buy and then 4500 pounds to sell?
Sapphires are graded on hue, tone and saturation so there’s no “AAA” grading system.
 
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This is what your friend is calling extinction. And it’s still there with what looks to be pretty strong and direct lighting.

plenty of sellers use ‘A’ ‘AA’ ‘AAA’ ratings for gemstones.
reputable labs recommended here that issue gem reports do not.
 
A, AA, and AAA are terms set by the store. There is no standardized meaning as to what each rating means.

Unfortunately, I have to agree that it looks rather dark in your photographs. Are you in a hurry to purchase? What are your requirements (price, mm size, treatment)? A colour example of what you like would be very helpful. I presume you are in the UK so taxes are a consideration.
 
I have used that lab in Colombo (well, had something with a report from there) and their top-color designations ("vivid," etc.) seem to be pretty good. I do not know if they LIBS-test sapphires; I don't see that comment. I would think a royal-blue designation from there would be worth something -- but not the same as GRS. Most labs -- even AGL Prestige report -- won't call royal or cornflower but I find it helpful.

I do think it's dark -- royals often are. Very shallow crown and deep pavilion -- if I'm looking at it right. It will *not* look as nice as the face-on view above. Too dark for bezel-set, imo, as it would need to be bathed in light. And I would not make a fancy "cocktail ring" out of it because it will be much more impressive under daylight and will most likely look like onyx in the evening. I find cornflower blue to be more versatile.

Buying from Sri Lanka is funny -- it will be paper-wrapped with the carat-wt and price written on the outside so plan accordingly.
 
I can categorically state that GIC does own a LIBS and does use it - I've personally seen both the machinery itself (FTIR, LIBS, Uv-Vis, Raman too if I'm not mistaken) and the readout screenshots. Heck, you can see it for yourself if you visit Sri Lanka since it's all on display repeatedly every year at a few Sri Lankan gem shows. They have a large "lab booth" workstation where you can see the entire process start to finish firsthand.

Their wording, however, is a bit different - they word is as "no evidence of artificial enhancement detected" (meaning no evidence of Be, filling, etc., it covers everything that isn't standard heating).
So if you don't see that sentence on the report, ask the seller to go and get that mentioned and/or re-tested as well.

But in the case above it's a moot point, since the stone is not heated to begin with and it's impossible to confuse unheated and diffused. The near-melting point temperatures needed to infuse corundum with beryllium leave crystal-clear evidence behind - so if the stone has even a single inclusion inside it, you'd have to be pretty daft not to be able to tell the difference even with a good microscope (let alone with spectrometry/-scopy etc.).

As trade, I'm not gonna comment on the stone itself, other than agreeing with what everyone else has already said.

P.S. I don't know how you judge "recognised labs".... Gemology isn't philosophy and it isn't rocket science either, it's numbers, physics, chemistry, databases, knowledge, experience. It's not some vaunted knowledge taught by Tibetan mystics, and if a lab gives you the impression that it is, it's for their own marketing and profit rather than for love of facts.
 
If somebody measures sapphire with AAA he can't be very qualified. Itºs like qualifying a car by the number of wheels.
 
Looks very dark in tone. Once set and in less than ideal lighting it might be pretty much ink blue / black to look at.
As for the certificate, it’s not a recognised lab. I think for an unheated status, given that the gem seems crystal clear, I’d be wanting a Premium lab report Ie AGS or similar to confirm.
And I’m not sure how it goes from being worth 1200 pounds for you to buy and then 4500 pounds to sell?
Sapphires are graded on hue, tone and saturation so there’s no “AAA” grading system.

The disparity in value obviously gave me concerns and also the amount of confidence I could put into the certificate. It was never advertised as AAA, only loupe clean. But having read so many articles on clarity etc, it appeard that AAA was the easiest way to describe the clarity. I know coloured gems don't have a grading system like diamonds, but I've seen them graded as type 1,2,3...AAA,...VVSI,VSI etc.
It's all very confusing...but the comments on here have been invaluable. Thanks to everyone for the guidance and information.
 
A, AA, and AAA are terms set by the store. There is no standardized meaning as to what each rating means.

Unfortunately, I have to agree that it looks rather dark in your photographs. Are you in a hurry to purchase? What are your requirements (price, mm size, treatment)? A colour example of what you like would be very helpful. I presume you are in the UK so taxes are a consideration.

Yeah, I'm in the UK. Stratford upon Avon. I'm not in a hurry or particularly looking for a gem.
I've recently had a ring made for my girlfriend from an opal I picked up in Oz last year. I also bought 2 emeralds to go either side.
Gems just popped up on my eBay account and I saw this one and was interested purely because it seemed such a "too good to be true" deal!
It is! Ha ha.
I may still think about another ring for the missus, but she's already told me that she likes morganite.
 
I have used that lab in Colombo (well, had something with a report from there) and their top-color designations ("vivid," etc.) seem to be pretty good. I do not know if they LIBS-test sapphires; I don't see that comment. I would think a royal-blue designation from there would be worth something -- but not the same as GRS. Most labs -- even AGL Prestige report -- won't call royal or cornflower but I find it helpful.

I do think it's dark -- royals often are. Very shallow crown and deep pavilion -- if I'm looking at it right. It will *not* look as nice as the face-on view above. Too dark for bezel-set, imo, as it would need to be bathed in light. And I would not make a fancy "cocktail ring" out of it because it will be much more impressive under daylight and will most likely look like onyx in the evening. I find cornflower blue to be more versatile.

Buying from Sri Lanka is funny -- it will be paper-wrapped with the carat-wt and price written on the outside so plan accordingly.

The seller is in the UK. I think they may have bought it and now realise their error.
I do like the royal blue colour, but like you said, if it is almost black onyx looking when set and not under a 2000 watt bulb, it loses the appeal!
 
I can categorically state that GIC does own a LIBS and does use it - I've personally seen both the machinery itself (FTIR, LIBS, Uv-Vis, Raman too if I'm not mistaken) and the readout screenshots. Heck, you can see it for yourself if you visit Sri Lanka since it's all on display repeatedly every year at a few Sri Lankan gem shows. They have a large "lab booth" workstation where you can see the entire process start to finish firsthand.

Their wording, however, is a bit different - they word is as "no evidence of artificial enhancement detected" (meaning no evidence of Be, filling, etc., it covers everything that isn't standard heating).
So if you don't see that sentence on the report, ask the seller to go and get that mentioned and/or re-tested as well.

But in the case above it's a moot point, since the stone is not heated to begin with and it's impossible to confuse unheated and diffused. The near-melting point temperatures needed to infuse corundum with beryllium leave crystal-clear evidence behind - so if the stone has even a single inclusion inside it, you'd have to be pretty daft not to be able to tell the difference even with a good microscope (let alone with spectrometry/-scopy etc.).

As trade, I'm not gonna comment on the stone itself, other than agreeing with what everyone else has already said.

P.S. I don't know how you judge "recognised labs".... Gemology isn't philosophy and it isn't rocket science either, it's numbers, physics, chemistry, databases, knowledge, experience. It's not some vaunted knowledge taught by Tibetan mystics, and if a lab gives you the impression that it is, it's for their own marketing and profit rather than for love of facts.

I'm glad that the lab isn't shady!
The certificate actually states "no indication of thermal enhancement"...so I guess that clearly states not heat treated??
I have to take the overriding advice though, the colour would be lost once set. I wouldn't have even considered a bezel setting though.
Thanks for your information and input.
Thanks for your advice
 
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Just FYI, CS does not need to be loupe clean, just eye clean. This clarity standard will not apply to certain stones like emerald or commonly included stones.
 
Even without the extinction there is no way a stone that size should cost that much ie the 4500, so I have no idea what your friend is basing that on. And the price it actually is, is also expensive for a stone that is that size that basically is going to be very dark....
 
Even without the extinction there is no way a stone that size should cost that much ie the 4500, so I have no idea what your friend is basing that on. And the price it actually is, is also expensive for a stone that is that size that basically is going to be very dark....

Thanks for your advice
 
I would avoid royal blue sapphire. The term typically comes from the fact that Diana wore a really dark sapphire ering, and the British royal family seems to favor dark sapphires. Darker does not mean better, especially when it comes to sapphires. I prefer medium tone with more intense or vivid saturation.
 
I would avoid royal blue sapphire. The term typically comes from the fact that Diana wore a really dark sapphire ering, and the British royal family seems to favor dark sapphires. Darker does not mean better, especially when it comes to sapphires. I prefer medium tone with more intense or vivid saturation.

I have come to that realisation too! The whole world, excluding the UK, prefer cornflower blue and I can see why. The darker royal blue can make it appear almost black. I have learned alot from this but have a great deal to go! It's a fascinating yet extremely complex subject.
The first 2 gems I have had any dealings with have been this royal blue sapphire and a black crystal opal from lightening ridge...both are far from straight forward! It's a steep learning curve, but it has shown me just how complex the subject can be.
Thanks again, Steve
 
I have come to that realisation too! The whole world, excluding the UK, prefer cornflower blue and I can see why. The darker royal blue can make it appear almost black. I have learned alot from this but have a great deal to go! It's a fascinating yet extremely complex subject.

Like most on here, I'm also in the "medium to medium-dark tone and intense to vivid saturation" camp, but just to play the devil's advocate for a second - there are also royal blues which look so insanely saturated that when you put a gorgeous med-intense next to them the lighter stone looks basically grey. The difference vs. the commercial royal blue type basically comes down to no blackish (inky) undertone at all, minimal extinction and commonly also a tiny bit of silk to spread the light around a bit. That type looks almost eye-searing (wallet-searing too). More often than not, they are the result of heating.

Just saying, they do exist - but are very few and far between.

Most "royal blues" are the dark, dim, inky, blackish type (Diana's stone included, from the photos at least). That type only looks like anything in very strong indirect daylight, sometimes not even then, and is not really that great overall. They're very easy to spot in photos though.
 
Yeah, I'm in the UK. Stratford upon Avon. I'm not in a hurry or particularly looking for a gem.
I've recently had a ring made for my girlfriend from an opal I picked up in Oz last year. I also bought 2 emeralds to go either side.
Gems just popped up on my eBay account and I saw this one and was interested purely because it seemed such a "too good to be true" deal!
It is! Ha ha.
I may still think about another ring for the missus, but she's already told me that she likes morganite.

i love morganite but it doesn't seem to be overly pooular around here
since arriving at this forum ive discovered so many other pink gemstones - i never even knew that sapphires came in any other colour but blue and green
 
i love morganite but it doesn't seem to be overly pooular around here
since arriving at this forum ive discovered so many other pink gemstones - i never even knew that sapphires came in any other colour but blue and green

That’s probably because most morganite is irradiated, and the treatment, as far as I know, is not detectable. It can also fade in color if exposed to prolonged sunlight.
 
That’s probably because most morganite is irradiated, and the treatment, as far as I know, is not detectable. It can also fade in color if exposed to prolonged sunlight.

i knew it was a night time gem and i thought it faded, but when i googled i found a lot saying it didn't fade ???

i brought an old 80s ring off the internet (another of my disappointments) and it was so faded
I know it also needs to be cleaned alot more than the average Joe public would ever clean it
 
i knew it was a night time gem and i thought it faded, but when i googled i found a lot saying it didn't fade ???

i brought an old 80s ring off the internet (another of my disappointments) and it was so faded
I know it also needs to be cleaned alot more than the average Joe public would ever clean it

I wasn't aware that morganite faded. These lesser value gems seem to be gaining in popularity but I know even less about them. I know....pretty hard to believe right?
What are you guys thoughts on Moissanite?
It appears to be a very good alternative to diamond and needs thorough examination by an expert to determine the difference between the two....
 
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