Trade member participation - more, less or about right?

[Rockdiamond]

Cool thread- thank you Bryan!!
It's really nice to hear the opinions of the people we all share this space with.
From my perspective- I agree with Wink's point about repeated questions.
I love discussing the intricacies of my life's chosen profession.
I could probably have a tape recording of "stock answers".....so many people have similar questions.
But the truth is, if one loves what they do, it's always fun to share.
Plus, a given answer that I may have given 5000 times can lead to a new response/question from the client- and I've seen that happen on Pricescope many times.

I also feel encouraged to read that many people have learned a lot from the...let's call them "family squabbles" between experienced tradespeople with different perspectives.
Although it's certainly gotten heated at times ( yes fl stones glow in many indoor lighting)...these differences of opinions make the forum far more informative, and interesting than a choir all agreeing.

 

[mrs-b]

Sometimes I feel as tho trade member discussions go off on such a technical tangent that we, normal consumers, sort of 'drop off the back'. Sometimes it can feel like a bit of a boys' club - I mean, ARE there any female diamond cutters out there? Since PS is meant to be educational, keeping the discussion at an accessible level is something to keep in mind.

And everyone is aware of the ideal cut vs 'buy with your eyes' argument, as well as who is on which side of it. It would be good to put that discussion to bed.

On the other hand, when trade members respond to specific questions, it is beyond invaluable. Would it be possible to start a thread listing various topics members would like to learn a little more about? Recently, if I've heard one poster ask why 34.5 / 40.8 (or thereabouts) is the perfect combination, I've heard fifty. What DOES happen if those angles change? What do the various combinations produce? I went through all the articles and couldn't find one on this specific topic - which is one of the most asked about on PS.

All up - very grateful for the bank of knowledge shared here by professionals, for no other reason than their love of the topic and their own generous natures. Thanks guys!

 

[LightBright]

I want more technical discussions from trades members. Personally, I feel like limiting vendors/artisans/professionals’ participation or making them tread on eggshells in what they say for fear of getting kicked off, has a determiental effect to the level of sophistication on the boards. Like the previous posters, I would like to see Ask An Expert (but with no censoring or kicking people off for innocently mentioning something or saying something) on PS where vendors can be free to discuss, say, show or teach anything they want. I would be hanging out there quite often.

 

[Tekate]

I love hearing from the vendors, I'd like to hear more, but I understand the rules. I thought all jewelers were rip off artists to buying from you and Good Old Gold, I learn from the trade people. thank you for asking!

 

[marcy]

I enjoyed the input and discussions from trade members.

 

[doberman]

I find that I look forward to trade member postings. Nothing feels commercialized at all.

 

[Jacquiemalta]

For me, it depends on the topic; particularly if trade members are commenting on a post asking for opinions on a particular stone they are interested in. Would the member be honest or try to steer them towards one of their own products and would normal members call them on it if they did, bearing in mind that they may be a customer of that trade member?

 

[stonewell]

Much like others have stated, I have personally gained a lot of insight and knowledge from the contributions of trade members here. While some of the dialogue (and banter) may go sideways or be over my head at times, I’ve always taken something away from it. Even if it’s a note that I need to “Google that” and read up further. So, given the guidelines and limitations the trade members observe on this forum, I’d say it’s just about right, but I would welcome more for the sheer educational value.

 

[rockhoundofficiando]

I love the trade experts input!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

It seems like many people do like trade participation, provided it is educational. I wonder how more trade members could be persuaded to get involved?? It would be nice to have a more diverse collection of experts willing to participate.

 

[Tophat1]

I’d like to see more trade involvement. The only time it is too much is when there is bickering between the trades, whether it is about who patent the new old cut or whether 60/60 diamonds have merit

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

I want more technical discussions from trades members. Personally, I feel like limiting vendors/artisans/professionals’ participation or making them tread on eggshells in what they say for fear of getting kicked off, has a determiental effect to the level of sophistication on the boards. Like the previous posters, I would like to see Ask An Expert (but with no censoring or kicking people off for innocently mentioning something or saying something) on PS where vendors can be free to discuss, say, show or teach anything they want. I would be hanging out there quite often.

Exactly my sentiments. I like the highly technical discussions best. I learn far more from those than anything else. I too would visit an Expert forum quite often, and likely primarily. I would actually like more interaction from the trade pros, I don't think there is enough. As to Serg's comment, I think all trade commentary is valuable, not just the vendors.

 

[rockysalamander]

I love the trade member participation...vendors and non-vendors. Jewelers and designers. Cutters and the like. You offer expertise and fun stories. You have a much larger pool of experiences with buyers and how they make selections. I really appreciate that we can "phone a friend" when we are stumped.

 

[Stevie Brazen]

I love seeing the comments from the highly reputable traders that are on Pricescope, and knowing that I can easily reach out to them should I wish to or need to. My only suggestion would be to mention business name or logo, perhaps in the bottom right corner of profile pictures.

 

[Lorelei]

It seems like many people do like trade participation, provided it is educational. I wonder how more trade members could be persuaded to get involved?? It would be nice to have a more diverse collection of experts willing to participate.

Definitely Bryan.

Without expert input I feel things can get stale, no one learns anything new and that's important for those who want to stay up to date on latest developments and ideas. I always want to improve so for me, expert discussion is always welcome.

 

[TreeScientist]

I always welcome more trade member participation, particularly from the cutters, as I feel like the discussions they participate in always lead to some new insight or nugget of knowledge that I didn't know before. Honestly, it get's rather boring seeing the exact same "Buy a G-H, eye-clean VS2-SI1 that fits within these depth/table/crown/pavilion measurements" replies in response to the "What diamond should I buy?!?" threads. While these posts are certainly helpful to a newbie who just wants a single piece of advice to maximize his/her budget on a reasonably well cut diamond, the information that the cutters bring to the forum regarding the nuances of diamond crafting certainly spice up RockyTalky and makes it worth my while to stick around.

 

[Lorelei]

I always welcome more trade member participation, particularly from the cutters, as I feel like the discussions they participate in always lead to some new insight or nugget of knowledge that I didn't know before. Honestly, it get's rather boring seeing the exact same "Buy a G-H, eye-clean VS2-SI1 that fits within these depth/table/crown/pavilion measurements" replies in response to the "What diamond should I buy?!?" threads. While these posts are certainly helpful to a newbie who just wants a single piece of advice to maximize his/her budget on a reasonably well cut diamond, the information that the cutters bring to the forum regarding the nuances of diamond crafting certainly spice up RockyTalky and makes it worth my while to stick around.

Well said and I agree, we need a balance of both. It's thanks to the many experts who have shared here over the years and the early posters that PS has evolved into the fantastic resource it is, I feel continued expert input is essential. It's good to have a detailed discussion on star facets for example, those aren't normally mentioned here as JP said, for me that's so as not to overcomplicate things for newer posters. But it's still a vital part of a diamond and a good working knowledge of the SF and their effects as an example, is interesting and relevant.

 

[OoohShiny]

When a thread gets over 50% trade it is to much trade and not enough consumer a lot of the time.

I would disagree with this to an extent - it is sometimes nice to stand in the same room as learned people and just absorb the knowledge flying back and forth! Sometimes there are disagreements and, like religion and politics, it is clear that viewpoints won't be changed from the discussions in progress, but two (or more) conflicting opinions and supporting information creates opportunities for learning that are really useful

Where i sometimes feel a little uncomfortable, is when a consumer is buying from a trade person and suddenly the trade person is alerted that the consumer is on PS...whether discussing a negative or positive experience. Very much like when a business responds to a yelpers comments. I always cring when the company replies...it feels very much like uncle sam is watching you...

Personally speaking, I think that as long as vendors are offering all customers the sort of excellent service they are offering members of PS who are posting with a problem, all is fine. In that sense, I view PS as any other form of social media, where users may be attempting to use the level of exposure to increase leverage on a vendor or 'encourage' the desired resolution - it should be (and does seem to be ) unnecessary in the case of PS-recommended vendors (and in fact any vendor worth their salt), but it is useful to see dispute resolution in the open as it aids understanding of internal processes.

Brayn,

There is not more any real motivation for independent experts and researchers to spend time for PS.
Such motivation was 10-15 years ago, but it is absent in recent years. Only trade members who sale diamonds here have such motivation.

It seems like many people do like trade participation, provided it is educational. I wonder how more trade members could be persuaded to get involved?? It would be nice to have a more diverse collection of experts willing to participate.

@Serg - why do you feel this way? Do you feel PS is not a good forum to share and discuss technical aspects of diamonds with other trade people? Are there better forums out there? Or do you feel trade people are 'set in their ways' and not open to alternative viewpoints?

Sometimes I feel as tho trade member discussions go off on such a technical tangent that we, normal consumers, sort of 'drop off the back'. Sometimes it can feel like a bit of a boys' club - I mean, ARE there any female diamond cutters out there? Since PS is meant to be educational, keeping the discussion at an accessible level is something to keep in mind.

And everyone is aware of the ideal cut vs 'buy with your eyes' argument, as well as who is on which side of it. It would be good to put that discussion to bed.

On the other hand, when trade members respond to specific questions, it is beyond invaluable. Would it be possible to start a thread listing various topics members would like to learn a little more about? Recently, if I've heard one poster ask why 34.5 / 40.8 (or thereabouts) is the perfect combination, I've heard fifty. What DOES happen if those angles change? What do the various combinations produce? I went through all the articles and couldn't find one on this specific topic - which is one of the most asked about on PS.

All up - very grateful for the bank of knowledge shared here by professionals, for no other reason than their love of the topic and their own generous natures. Thanks guys!

Some great points of discussion raised

I can't remember her name now, but there is definitely a female cutter in the CBI team! @John Pollard should be able to post the link to her details that I'm sure he or Paul has posted before

WRT the ideal cut vs 'buy with your eyes' argument, it feels to me like MRBs are now falling into the former camp due to the current levels of focus on light performance analysis available, but stepcuts, cushions and vintage(-y) round cuts do seem to fall into the latter, in that they may have not-great ASET or IS images but could still look beautiful in real life, with motion and stereoscopic viewing. I find it interesting that @diagem doesn't offer ASET/IS images with his stones, for example, as his stones are surely beautiful ( ) but I am wondering if they might not have the sort of empirical light performance analysis results that would be seen in modern-style cuts! Perhaps @Jimmianne or @Matthews1127 might be able/willing to take some ASET images of their amazing Yoram stones? (If Yoram would be happy for them to do so??)

 

[Lorelei]

Oosh

Lieve Peeters is an integral part of the CBI team, she's the gemologist. A short bio on her from the CBI site.

''Lieve Peeters, the Chief Gemologist for Infinity Diamonds, is pictured in the center. She is a highly-sought after expert in the Antwerp diamond sector. With over 30 years of industry experience Lieve holds a position as a judicial expert with the Belgian Ministry of Justice. She is formerly the Diamond-Expert Coordinator for the Belgian Ministry of Finance and Economic Affairs. Lieve also worked as a diamond sorter for DeBeers sightholder Stieglitz & Grossman. She holds degrees in polishing and gemology, and is in demand as a leading authority in the areas of rough and polished diamonds.''

 

[OoohShiny]

Thanks, Lorelei!

 

[Blingalingaling]

As a person who has always been interested in diamonds, not just in wearing them, but in appreciation of their beauty and what makes them so, I welcome the opportunity to learn more and more about them. So I am in favor of the "expert's opinions" and knowledge that's available on these boards and I think that more of it would be even better.
I think it's amazing that people in the trade take the time and are interested in imparting their knowledge to us and I thank them for that!
While initially I came to Pricescope to answer questions I had about a purchase we were about to make, Pricescope has become an everyday "check-in" for me, to read up on what "the regulars" have going on, and also to soak in some more knowledge about a subject that really and truly interests me!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

For the benefit of any trades people 'lurking', I would say a couple of things. First, as I mentioned before, this forum is full of knowledgeable consumers who are passionate about our products and services. As such their opinions, attitudes, and preferences are very instructive. And I think predictive of where the market is heading. Even if you prefer to just lurk, there is much value in spending time here. Even having been in the industry for over forty years (holy crap!), I have acquired a significant amount of my technical knowledge right here from tradespeople and prosumers alike.

But I would recommend that you participate, even if just to ask questions. No matter what area of the industry you are working in, there is a place for you here and a channel (if not this one) where you can find discussions of interest. As you see from most of the comments in this thread, there is a sincere appreciation among many in this community for getting an industry insider perspective. You don't have to be a world class expert. Even if you are new to the industry, you still have a perspective that will be additive to discussions, and engagement here can enhance your career in many ways. And enhance the fabric of this community.

So, that's my story on trade participation and I'm sticking to it. Like any ecosystem, there is strength in diversity. As @OoohShiny mentioned, debates between trademembers can illuminate different sides of an issue. And even if the trade members themselves have their heels dug in and are not about to change, it can help visitors to decide what resonates with them.

At the risk of revealing my political bent, I do believe we are stronger together.

 

[VegasInanHour]

@Texas Leaguer

I agree with @Serge, in my opinion this forum exists primarily as indirect sales and marketing for PS vendors.

The participating trade here are heavily biased by what they sell and on expounding on the virtues of what their company specializes in and the way it does business.

All PR aside the majority of trade are still here because they believe it helps their business and every post has that motivation in mind.

Moderators in the (past/present) have been heavy handed and have discouraged scientific discourse and arguments in favor of politeness for fear of scaring off the primarily female posting base here.

In addition the current active trademembers who are longtime posters are particularly adept at simplifying technical details and preaching to relatively uneducated consumers. To a novice consumer arguing on this forum is much less about what you say and much more about how you say it and your reputation on the forum.

Ring fencing 'techie discussions' to a separate sub forum with more relaxed moderation has been attempted in the past, 'Diamond Research' comes to mind, it did lead to some informative and interesting discussions and may be worth trying again.

 

[Rockdiamond]

About responding to a criticism or complaint- be it here or yelp......
I think that's vital to any business- how they respond is key.
If the response is cringe-worthy, the merchant missed a huge opportunity IMO.
Learning how to hear and respond criticism is so very valuable. I've certainly learned a lot of that here.
I will say that from a personal perspective, it can be challenging to participate here as a vendor- for many reasons. We're people too- with actual feelings.
Despite all that, I agree 100% with Bryan that any merchant who is not taking note of trends, and discussions here is missing a very important boat.

 

[Katya DXB]

I love trade members’ posts. For me, it is not only an invaluable source of knowledge but also the ultimate coolness factor. To have the opportunity to ask an industry mastodon for input is just so awesome!! It’s like a Tom Ford giving personal style advice on a public forum (except he never would) I hope I’m not offending anyone with this analogy, I really do think it’s incredibly generous of trade members to share their expertise and it’s a huge attraction for me on this forum. Thank you for that

 

[Lorelei]

@Texas Leaguer

Moderators in the (past/present) have been heavy handed and have discouraged scientific discourse and arguments in favor of politeness for fear of scaring off the primarily female posting base here.

Why would any scientific discussion ' scare off' any female posters, would you care to explain please?

 

[Matthews1127]

Why would any scientific discussion ' scare off' any female posters, would you care to explain please?

+1

 

[Matthews1127]

I would disagree with this to an extent - it is sometimes nice to stand in the same room as learned people and just absorb the knowledge flying back and forth! Sometimes there are disagreements and, like religion and politics, it is clear that viewpoints won't be changed from the discussions in progress, but two (or more) conflicting opinions and supporting information creates opportunities for learning that are really useful



Personally speaking, I think that as long as vendors are offering all customers the sort of excellent service they are offering members of PS who are posting with a problem, all is fine. In that sense, I view PS as any other form of social media, where users may be attempting to use the level of exposure to increase leverage on a vendor or 'encourage' the desired resolution - it should be (and does seem to be ) unnecessary in the case of PS-recommended vendors (and in fact any vendor worth their salt), but it is useful to see dispute resolution in the open as it aids understanding of internal processes.




@Serg - why do you feel this way? Do you feel PS is not a good forum to share and discuss technical aspects of diamonds with other trade people? Are there better forums out there? Or do you feel trade people are 'set in their ways' and not open to alternative viewpoints?



Some great points of discussion raised

I can't remember her name now, but there is definitely a female cutter in the CBI team! @John Pollard should be able to post the link to her details that I'm sure he or Paul has posted before

WRT the ideal cut vs 'buy with your eyes' argument, it feels to me like MRBs are now falling into the former camp due to the current levels of focus on light performance analysis available, but stepcuts, cushions and vintage(-y) round cuts do seem to fall into the latter, in that they may have not-great ASET or IS images but could still look beautiful in real life, with motion and stereoscopic viewing. I find it interesting that @diagem doesn't offer ASET/IS images with his stones, for example, as his stones are surely beautiful ( ) but I am wondering if they might not have the sort of empirical light performance analysis results that would be seen in modern-style cuts! Perhaps @Jimmianne or @Matthews1127 might be able/willing to take some ASET images of their amazing Yoram stones? (If Yoram would be happy for them to do so??)

@OoohShiny, I would love to attempt to get some really good ASET images of my GemConcepts Asschers! I will have to reach out to Yoram to get his input, and if he’s on board, I’ll work on that!

 

[rockysalamander]

I will say that from a personal perspective, it can be challenging to participate here as a vendor- for many reasons. We're people too- with actual feelings.

I've wondered about how Trade Members experience being an active member or silent observer. We are, on the whole, a pretty direct (nee blunt) bunch. We love you trade members

 

[OoohShiny]

Why would any scientific discussion ' scare off' any female posters, would you care to explain please?

Well, you know, the female mind is too full of thoughts about what to cook their husband for dinner after his hard day at work while they've been at home all day with the children / what is going to be cleaned tomorrow while hubby is out at work / just how enjoyable ironing their husband's shirts actually is...