Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaate

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I really dislike anything trendy for ME. I think I have learned this over time. Things that are timeless, elegant, and classic are best as heirlooms, and I invest in things that I will enjoy and someday pass down. I wear nice watches but they are classic and should be able to be worn 20 years from now. I like/love some antique pieces..OEC's, AVC's, a little milgrain, some art deco, etc. to mix in with my classic things.

All the things that I can think of that will be out of style in the next 5 to 10 years have already been mentioned. I really don't like over the top bling because I don't think most people live the kind of lifestyle to pull it off (some definite exceptions here, though!). I think I just have limited money and limited time, so I want the things I buy to be things that I'll still love in 20 years!

 

[ericad]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Can I just say that the jbEG Bella halo has changed my mind about them. I'm no longer over halos if they look like this. It is STUNNING!
http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.c...ring-a-9mm/16713089_WPwSgd#1265503123_MK644B8

THUD. I nearly fainted when I saw our name mentioned in this thread, lol. I was like, "Oh no, what did we do?!" thinking we somehow put "cutlet" instead of "culet" on the site, or something! Phew! Glad to hear it's just some Bella-love

 

[Circe]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

if we're talking about spelling mistakes, can I throw in 'cutlet' and 'pendent'??

Broach vs. brooch. The last thing I want is for any portion of my anatomy upon which I might conceivably wear a brooch to be broached by anybody other than my husband! For some reason, that one always makes me think of the people who wait with baited breath - I picture them poised, with mouths wide open and cheese on their tongues, like Tom-Cat when he's trying to trap Jerry.

 

[princesss]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

if we're talking about spelling mistakes, can I throw in 'cutlet' and 'pendent'??

Broach vs. brooch. The last thing I want is for any portion of my anatomy upon which I might conceivably wear a brooch to be broached by anybody other than my husband! For some reason, that one always makes me think of the people who wait with baited breath - I picture them poised, with mouths wide open and cheese on their tongues, like Tom-Cat when he's trying to trap Jerry.

*gigglesnort*

 

[Haven]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Can I just say that the jbEG Bella halo has changed my mind about them. I'm no longer over halos if they look like this. It is STUNNING!
http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.c...ring-a-9mm/16713089_WPwSgd#1265503123_MK644B8

THUD. I nearly fainted when I saw our name mentioned in this thread, lol. I was like, "Oh no, what did we do?!" thinking we somehow put "cutlet" instead of "culet" on the site, or something! Phew! Glad to hear it's just some Bella-love

Oh, no! I'm sorry, Erica.
I love every single one of your pieces, but the Bella halo really has me thinking about whether I need a new RHR soon. I've been scanning your loose diamond page just in case the right stone pops up for this beautiful setting. As I said, I thought I was over the halo look until I saw this ring. I even showed it to DH, which is unusual, and he agrees: This ring is GORGEOUS!

 

[merilenda]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Can I just say that the jbEG Bella halo has changed my mind about them. I'm no longer over halos if they look like this. It is STUNNING!
http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.c...ring-a-9mm/16713089_WPwSgd#1265503123_MK644B8

THUD. I nearly fainted when I saw our name mentioned in this thread, lol. I was like, "Oh no, what did we do?!" thinking we somehow put "cutlet" instead of "culet" on the site, or something! Phew! Glad to hear it's just some Bella-love

Oh, no! I'm sorry, Erica.
I love every single one of your pieces, but the Bella halo really has me thinking about whether I need a new RHR soon. I've been scanning your loose diamond page just in case the right stone pops up for this beautiful setting. As I said, I thought I was over the halo look until I saw this ring. I even showed it to DH, which is unusual, and he agrees: This ring is GORGEOUS!

Hehe, that's funny! I'm kind of not liking you right now, Haven, because now I want the Bella sooooooo badly. It's gorgeous!!! I've been thinking about it since I clicked on the link.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

So, since my name is bella, I'm thinking that I need a bella halo, maybe JbEG could cut me a deal on it I don't even like halos and I LOVE that.

Sigh...someday I will have my dream RHR, a nice big OEC or fat antique cushion in a JbEG setting, the sophie, the bella, the gabbie...how will I ever pick? Good thing I have a loooooong time to dream and decide since it will probably be 20 years before I save up the $...

JbEG has the most gorgeous and unique settings!

P.S> Yes, I know this is the trend vent thread, but I got a little side tracked

 

[vsc]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

David Yurman - overpriced and the exact opposite of delicate
Pandora bracelets
Le Vian - overhyped!
Any pave where the beads stick out and the surface looks all bumpy

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Different take: weird piercings. The guy doing our new roof has a silver stud halfway back on his tongue! Just enough to see a flash of silver every time he talks, makes me feel like gagging that close to the throat. And why, I'm dying to ask him!

--- Laurie

 

[princesss]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Out of curiousity, I looked up the price of the Yurman bangles my friend J wears on a daily basis. I about choked. I knew he was overpriced, but holy overpriced silver, Batman! I wanted to cry thinking about the things she could have gotten instead.

 

[Circe]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Out of curiousity, I looked up the price of the Yurman bangles my friend J wears on a daily basis. I about choked. I knew he was overpriced, but holy overpriced silver, Batman! I wanted to cry thinking about the things she could have gotten instead.

In a way, I wonder if that isn't part of the appeal - not just for Yurman, but for a lot of designer/vintage pieces where some of the price is built into an intangible instead of the cost of the materials. It runs counter to my general philosophy of life, but given that it's not just the luxury experience given that people buy them on eBay, etc. ....

 

[Haven]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh my GOODNESS! I have never liked those clunky David Yurman pieces, but I had NO IDEA how expensive they are until I just looked them up after reading your post, Princesss. Shocking, really.

 

[Sparkly_Not_Gaudy]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I hope I don't hurt any feeling feelings by saying this, but the Kay jewelers Open Heart Collection kinda bugs me too.

It looks like bewbies and butts to me. BLECH!

Are we allowed to say that here? lol

 

[princesss]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Out of curiousity, I looked up the price of the Yurman bangles my friend J wears on a daily basis. I about choked. I knew he was overpriced, but holy overpriced silver, Batman! I wanted to cry thinking about the things she could have gotten instead.

In a way, I wonder if that isn't part of the appeal - not just for Yurman, but for a lot of designer/vintage pieces where some of the price is built into an intangible instead of the cost of the materials. It runs counter to my general philosophy of life, but given that it's not just the luxury experience given that people buy them on eBay, etc. ....

For her, I'm sure it is. She definitely likes having nice things, but sometimes I wonder why people don't differentiate between luxury brands that have a tangible difference in their product (driving a BMW is very different than driving a Ford, for instance), and those that mark up because of the brand but where the actual use and quality of the product isn't very different (Yurman and Tiffs vs. pieces PSers find). Part of it is that she doesn't care to educate herself on jewelry but still wants to own good pieces (this is my friend that likes cushions "because they're square but not really"), and I think part of it is that she can afford luxury items and likes to treat herself sometimes.

And I think the eBay thing is that the luxury experience is not just buying the pieces and getting the special treatment, but the way people look at you when you're wearing/using luxury items. People see somebody wearing a few luxury items or driving a luxury car and make assumptions about them. And since we value wealth in this culture (whether you're from a privledged background or have worked your way up), the display of wealth generally is met with approval. I'm not talking logos everywhere, but things like Yurman pieces are noticable to a certain demographic, and it puts you into a fairly specific group in people's minds.

I also think that it's a way of attracting a mate of similar or better SES. What you wear and how you carry yourself changes who will approach you. I always have a blast when we get together, in part because of the men we attract. If the two of us get dressed up and go out, 100% of the time the men that approach work in finance, in high risk/high rewards jobs, are very competitive, are wearing designer clothes and 9 times out of 10 drive luxury cars. They pay for everything without blinking, and when we find out where they live they always own apartments or houses in the most affluent parts of town. And while I don't think they consciously think about what they're doing, people seek out mates that are like them. (Oddly, when we're out with other people, we both attract VERY different types of men, but the combination of the two of us attracts a very specific type of guy.) While obviously no guy is looking at her Yurman bracelets and thinking "Oh, she's like me!" I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen them on their moms, sisters, exes, or friends and unconciously connect her with them.

Okay. That was really long. And Haven - right!?!?

 

[suchende]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Princesss, I've noticed the same things about high-income men. It's funny, because they'll say privately that it's not what they're after (bratty, spoiled, overeducated) but then they are immediately attracted to girls to project either success or brattiness.

 

[Kismet]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I'm not sure what they're called but I really dislike the really wide earrings that stretch the lobe... more of a plug than a hoop or stud.

 

[Circe]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Out of curiousity, I looked up the price of the Yurman bangles my friend J wears on a daily basis. I about choked. I knew he was overpriced, but holy overpriced silver, Batman! I wanted to cry thinking about the things she could have gotten instead.

In a way, I wonder if that isn't part of the appeal - not just for Yurman, but for a lot of designer/vintage pieces where some of the price is built into an intangible instead of the cost of the materials. It runs counter to my general philosophy of life, but given that it's not just the luxury experience given that people buy them on eBay, etc. ....

For her, I'm sure it is. She definitely likes having nice things, but sometimes I wonder why people don't differentiate between luxury brands that have a tangible difference in their product (driving a BMW is very different than driving a Ford, for instance), and those that mark up because of the brand but where the actual use and quality of the product isn't very different (Yurman and Tiffs vs. pieces PSers find). Part of it is that she doesn't care to educate herself on jewelry but still wants to own good pieces (this is my friend that likes cushions "because they're square but not really"), and I think part of it is that she can afford luxury items and likes to treat herself sometimes.

And I think the eBay thing is that the luxury experience is not just buying the pieces and getting the special treatment, but the way people look at you when you're wearing/using luxury items. People see somebody wearing a few luxury items or driving a luxury car and make assumptions about them. And since we value wealth in this culture (whether you're from a privledged background or have worked your way up), the display of wealth generally is met with approval. I'm not talking logos everywhere, but things like Yurman pieces are noticable to a certain demographic, and it puts you into a fairly specific group in people's minds.

I also think that it's a way of attracting a mate of similar or better SES. What you wear and how you carry yourself changes who will approach you. I always have a blast when we get together, in part because of the men we attract. If the two of us get dressed up and go out, 100% of the time the men that approach work in finance, in high risk/high rewards jobs, are very competitive, are wearing designer clothes and 9 times out of 10 drive luxury cars. They pay for everything without blinking, and when we find out where they live they always own apartments or houses in the most affluent parts of town. And while I don't think they consciously think about what they're doing, people seek out mates that are like them. (Oddly, when we're out with other people, we both attract VERY different types of men, but the combination of the two of us attracts a very specific type of guy.) While obviously no guy is looking at her Yurman bracelets and thinking "Oh, she's like me!" I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen them on their moms, sisters, exes, or friends and unconciously connect her with them.

Okay. That was really long. And Haven - right!?!?

I think that was really thought-provoking - well worth the length! I never thought of the possible value of branding in the sense of projecting an image quite like that ....

 

[princesss]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Princesss, I've noticed the same things about high-income men. It's funny, because they'll say privately that it's not what they're after (bratty, spoiled, overeducated) but then they are immediately attracted to girls to project either success or brattiness.

It amuses me. The thing is, I think it is something they kind of need to pay attention to if they want a PARTNER and not just somebody looking for their bank account. Weed out the bratty girls, but pay attention to the girls that can take care of themselves. No guy will last with either of us unless he wants an equal, and neither of us would date a guy that we didn't feel could take care of himself in the way that we take care of ourselves. (Which is to say - minimal debt, responsible with money, but still indulges himself in things that are important to him - for me it's travel and jewelry, for her it's...well, okay, travel and her appearance - clothes, accessories, etc.)

 

[princesss]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Circe, it's something I've had a LOT of time to observe, living in the South where the act of attracting the "right" husband is a fairly well thought out process and something a few of my friends (though not the one I was talking about earlier) work on with dilligence that astounds me. Plus, having studied anthropology in college, it's a fun chance to sit back and analyze why people are wearing/doing things that I am just incapable of - no matter how hard I may try, I will never look like the perfectly pulled together preppy Southern girl. I don't have the patience, nor do I have the desire to attract a male of the preppy Southern variety, so why bother? The combination of my lack of interest in dating the guys around here and my friends' desire to land the "perfect" guy make for interesting observations (and it has the fun side effect of freaking them out when I can change a few things and take them to places and bring in a totally different kind of guy than they usually attract).

 

[Circe]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Circe, it's something I've had a LOT of time to observe, living in the South where the act of attracting the "right" husband is a fairly well thought out process and something a few of my friends (though not the one I was talking about earlier) work on with dilligence that astounds me. Plus, having studied anthropology in college, it's a fun chance to sit back and analyze why people are wearing/doing things that I am just incapable of - no matter how hard I may try, I will never look like the perfectly pulled together preppy Southern girl. I don't have the patience, nor do I have the desire to attract a male of the preppy Southern variety, so why bother? The combination of my lack of interest in dating the guys around here and my friends' desire to land the "perfect" guy make for interesting observations (and it has the fun side effect of freaking them out when I can change a few things and take them to places and bring in a totally different kind of guy than they usually attract).

Ever think of writing a book?

Seriously, it sounds like you've almost made a science of it: odder things have sold well!

 

[suchende]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Princesss, I've noticed the same things about high-income men. It's funny, because they'll say privately that it's not what they're after (bratty, spoiled, overeducated) but then they are immediately attracted to girls to project either success or brattiness.

It amuses me. The thing is, I think it is something they kind of need to pay attention to if they want a PARTNER and not just somebody looking for their bank account. Weed out the bratty girls, but pay attention to the girls that can take care of themselves. No guy will last with either of us unless he wants an equal, and neither of us would date a guy that we didn't feel could take care of himself in the way that we take care of ourselves. (Which is to say - minimal debt, responsible with money, but still indulges himself in things that are important to him - for me it's travel and jewelry, for her it's...well, okay, travel and her appearance - clothes, accessories, etc.)

For some of my friends (and exes, for that matter), I think they subconsciously want a demanding girl who expects a lot from them. They don't really care if she's a financial peer, but they do care that she expects to maintain a certain lifestyle. For others, I think it's just wanting a girl who fits in at the office party.

 

[princesss]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Princesss, I've noticed the same things about high-income men. It's funny, because they'll say privately that it's not what they're after (bratty, spoiled, overeducated) but then they are immediately attracted to girls to project either success or brattiness.

It amuses me. The thing is, I think it is something they kind of need to pay attention to if they want a PARTNER and not just somebody looking for their bank account. Weed out the bratty girls, but pay attention to the girls that can take care of themselves. No guy will last with either of us unless he wants an equal, and neither of us would date a guy that we didn't feel could take care of himself in the way that we take care of ourselves. (Which is to say - minimal debt, responsible with money, but still indulges himself in things that are important to him - for me it's travel and jewelry, for her it's...well, okay, travel and her appearance - clothes, accessories, etc.)

For some of my friends (and exes, for that matter), I think they subconsciously want a demanding girl who expects a lot from them. They don't really care if she's a financial peer, but they do care that she expects to maintain a certain lifestyle. For others, I think it's just wanting a girl who fits in at the office party.

I can definitely see that. There is a certain type of guy that likes a demanding woman, and it always kind of baffles me. But then, while I'm not demanding in an obnoxiously vocal way, I do expect certain things out of life and since I'm willing to work hard for them, I want a partner that values them as well. It's unfortunate that they're not things that are popular where I am now, but that gives me time to sit back and watch everybody else.

And Circe, I haven't thought about writing a book, but that would be kind of a fun topic to write about.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

.

 

[AmeliaG]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

For some of my friends (and exes, for that matter), I think they subconsciously want a demanding girl who expects a lot from them. They don't really care if she's a financial peer, but they do care that she expects to maintain a certain lifestyle. For others, I think it's just wanting a girl who fits in at the office party.

I think they just want a trophy wife. Some people are just into status - it doesn't matter what the status symbol is, whatever it is, they've got to have it. One of my former co-workers was like that, she made a point to buy her lunch and sit outside one of the financial houses. She ended up meeting and marrying a high-powered financial manager. They're so funny; we call them David and Victoria Beckham. Both of them are so into appearances, its hard to see what else matters for them. She keeps a lovely, to die for, loft apartment with a limitless budget, a stunning designer wardrode (and jewels though she's not into a lot of jewelry), he has long hours at his job but no questions asked if he needs to go to a weeklong conference that employs some golfing (God knows what else he's doing but she doesn't ask). The only time you see them together is at some public event where he's showing her off. I have to hand it to her; she has the look of the trophy wife down pat. She actually is a nice girl but, eh, a little too superficial to be a close friend. She is really, really into appearances, but its fun when she picks up the tab for a girls night at Per Se.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Pandora bracelets.

JKT anything.

Journey pendants/rings/anything.

Freke, why no love for JKT?

Yeah...you have that gorgeous key from JKT...are you just over it, or what? Curious!

Lumpy (probably rushed) bezels.
Jump rings at wrong locations.
Wrong chain length.
Missed deadlines.
Overpriced.
Unreliable.

And that's just with ONE experience. Which was a gift...not even something I paid for.

Otherwise? I'm just not that big a fan of bezels, and she doesn't do prongs.

But really, the massive price increase really rubbed me the wrong way. Starting at just $300 for a BASIC SILVER piece? That's a lot for lumpy craftsmanship...What is silver now? $40ish an ounce? For one ring, maybe half an ounce of silver is used so you're paying about $280 for her work...and I don't think we're talking the organic flowy detail she's known for.

So basically she's approaching Tiffany for overpriced silver, and she sure as hell doesn't have the history/marketing/name/reputation that Tiffs has. Or the craftsmanship.

This is all speaking from my own personal experience from over a year ago, of course.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Freke: gotcha! Totally understandable. Off to read your spin-off thread now.

 

[jstarfireb]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I also have a lot of the things people have listed here, such as princess cuts (my engagement ring...and FWIW, I believe Asschers face up smaller than princesses, and everyone seems to love those) and journey pendants (I have a squiggly one). I like the open hearts collection too, but I don't own any pieces.

I'm not offended - to each your own!

I have to say that like most of you, I'm not a fan of modular jewelry like the Pandora line, big watches, most celebrity rings, and David Yurman.

And the spelling errors drive me batty. "Cutlet" and "broach" (man, it pains me just to write that) in particular get on my nerves.

 

[swingirl]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Current trend that I dislike---hula-hoop earrings that look like the lobe is being stretched to it's breaking point. I see these on every female American Idol contestant but I don't know who else actually wears them. When your earring rests on your shoulder It's getting a little large, wouldn't you say?

 

[Circe]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Lumpy (probably rushed) bezels.
Jump rings at wrong locations.
Wrong chain length.
Missed deadlines.
Overpriced.
Unreliable.

And that's just with ONE experience. Which was a gift...not even something I paid for.

Otherwise? I'm just not that big a fan of bezels, and she doesn't do prongs.

But really, the massive price increase really rubbed me the wrong way. Starting at just $300 for a BASIC SILVER piece? That's a lot for lumpy craftsmanship...What is silver now? $40ish an ounce? For one ring, maybe half an ounce of silver is used so you're paying about $280 for her work...and I don't think we're talking the organic flowy detail she's known for.

So basically she's approaching Tiffany for overpriced silver, and she sure as hell doesn't have the history/marketing/name/reputation that Tiffs has. Or the craftsmanship.

This is all speaking from my own personal experience from over a year ago, of course.

Aii, having looked at the bezels in your other thread, I can understand your frustration! There's no excuse for that, and, frankly, even given the passage of time, she should be willing to fix those. (I don't know if she will be: just that she should be.)

That said, I sorta feel compelled to speak up in defense of independent artisans. This isn't JKT specific - I own one ready-made piece by her, and have no strong feelings for or against her as a person - but I know a lot of jewelers who own their own businesses. The price increase is warranted, IMO, because there's a big difference between paying Tiffany for a mass-produced piece and paying for custom work, and it boils down to a word I think I saw you using recently - being a patron.

Running a small business is a pain in the ass. When jewelers start out, a lot of them charge rock-bottom prices, which means they're basically covering the cost of materials, but not necessarily paying themselves an hourly wage, because they're investing their time into the start-up. A lot of them actually wind up paying for the pleasure of making jewelry, if they don't factor in the time correspondence, etc. will take. When they take off, they start recouping their investment ... not suddenly rolling in piles of money and eating foie gras at every meal.

Making a ring, even one of the more basic models she offers, by my estimation if it's all fabricated and properly finished, should take a minimum of approximately 6 hours, assuming nothing goes wrong - if it's a little more complex, if there's any design work, which, hey, that's her rock-bottom for custom, implying there'll be correspondence to work out the details, sketches, etc., etc., means it's probably more like a minimum of 8 hours, probably more. That's an ceiling of roughly 45 bucks an hour down to considerably less, balanced against the cost of setting up a shop (jewelry-making tools are pricey) and paying rent on her space. So, figure that in terms of profit, she's making between 20 and 30 bucks an hour, depending on what rent's like in Tucson, how long she's owned all the tools she needs to fulfill commisions, all that jazz. To me, that doesn't seem like an insane salary to pay a talented professional.

When you buy Tiffany silver, you're paying for the name and the design work ... but they mass-produce, so their costs are lower, and while you might get the prestige, there's no individuality to what you receive. An independent craftsman, though? Choose the right one, and its well worth the surcharge, I think, to know that, a) you're supporting someone's talent and maybe helping to bring more beauty into the world, and, b) exercising your own individuality.

Of course, the risk is the risk that comes with all custom work - of not having your expectations met. I'll get off my soapbox now, and, Freke, I genuinely do hope you get your bezels fixed! Just had to put that out there.

 

[artdecogirl]

Re: Trend Vent - Current Jewelry Things You Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Ok, not a jewelry trend but since we are discussing cutlet vs culet, broach vs brooch and so forth please you drive to the mall to a jewelry store, you do not go to a maul. A maul is a big hammer used to split wood. Thank you, vent over.