Tucson 2014

[eos512]

And opal i think

 

[chrono]

Just got back from GJX and AGTA shows. Spinel and tsavorite prices are through the roof.

Very bad news for those still shopping for spinel and tsavorite, not to mention replacement cost!

 

[chrono]

I like yellow danburite; it can be a very beautiful gem but I think it does cleave easily. That said, they are generally inexpensive so replacement cost isn't an issue.

 

[T L]

No that is per ct for cut. Sizes like 3 ct and up. Hot red/pink from Tanzania was even more. Some big pieces (10 ct) at $12,000 per ct. And these are wholesale shows... I did see some big rubies for $2 per ct however!

It did to me seem like there was a lot of emerald around. I didn't look into the pricing as it not a stone I typically work with.

Well, probably glass filled.

 

[chrono]

TL,
I'm guessing they might be more glass than ruby.

 

[pregcurious]

Gene, did you buy some yellow danburite rough?

 

[innerkitten]

Just got back from GJX and AGTA shows. Spinel and tsavorite prices are through the roof.

Blue and violet spinel too?

Any kind of spinel was up. Saw some nice violets and they were pretty darn expensive. Depending on size etc prices for nice pieces $2000 to $6000 per ct. Tsavorite $2000 and up. Saw a suite of three stones all around 10 ct at $15,000 per ct.

For that price it must be very nice though right? I mean you can still find the cheap native cuts on Ebay for way less than that. Not top colors of course. But still.

Glad I bought my blue spinel when I did.

 

[minousbijoux]

Bye bye dreams of a lavender/violet/bluish spinel...buh bye

 

[PrecisionGem]

The stones I looked at and priced are "gem quality" top color very we'll cut, clean stone in good sizes. I'm sure the typical eBay stiff will never approach those prices, nor quality.
I did pich up a few pieces of danburite, just to test the waters. The price is effected quite a bit by the color and tone on these. I have seen prices in 2 to 5 ct sizes in the $150 to $300 range. Larger stones higher, some up to $600 per ct. This is cut stones not rough. The stones all seemed to have the typical peridot type inclusions.

 

[PrecisionGem]

The $2 rubies are all glass filled, and don't look real at all. They don't feel real, I would rather have red CZ, or lab created.

So here is something I hadn't seen before. There are a few companies in japan taking real emerald, but low grade and grinding it up, the melting it and producing clean large stones. $60 per ct. Very nice color.

 

[minousbijoux]

The $2 rubies are all glass filled, and don't look real at all. They don't feel real, I would rather have red CZ, or lab created.

So here is something I hadn't seen before. There are a few companies in japan taking real emerald, but low grade and grinding it up, the melting it and producing clean large stones. $60 per ct. Very nice color.

I'd love to see one. Does this mean they are more durable as well? Is it obvious that they are a different kettle of fish, or is this something else we must now be vigilant in avoiding?

 

[chrono]

Gene,
That's old news about the emeralds. I've heard about reconstituted emeralds a few years ago.

 

[minousbijoux]

Chrono: have you had the opportunity to see them? If you have, can you tell us more? Would they be mistaken for a "real" emerald - that is, are they replete with jardin and such?

 

[chrono]

Minou,
I have not seen any in person. Here's a link that will tell you more than you ever want to know about melted emeralds.
http://www.jckonline.com/1995/09/01/reconstituted-reconstructed-recrystallized-regrown-again
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-treatment-for-emerald.145566/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-treatment-for-emerald.145566/[/URL]

 

[pregcurious]

Minou,
I have not seen any in person. Here's a link that will tell you more than you ever want to know about melted emeralds.
http://www.jckonline.com/1995/09/01/reconstituted-reconstructed-recrystallized-regrown-again
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-treatment-for-emerald.145566/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-treatment-for-emerald.145566/[/URL]

I can't believe they don't have a picture.

 

[innerkitten]

Minou,
I have not seen any in person. Here's a link that will tell you more than you ever want to know about melted emeralds.
http://www.jckonline.com/1995/09/01/reconstituted-reconstructed-recrystallized-regrown-again
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-treatment-for-emerald.145566/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-treatment-for-emerald.145566/[/URL]

I can't believe they don't have a picture.

I know.

 

[Starzin]

Just got back from GJX and AGTA shows. Spinel and tsavorite prices are through the roof.

So are we talking doubled? Tripled? What seems to be the reason for this... have all the mines "closed" again or is the Chinese market really having this sort of world wide impact?

The one way of stopping it is to not buy if it's simply greediness being factored in... i.e what the market will bear, though I agree this is hard if one country is on a buying spree. Can the message be sent to these vendors that to market at those prices they need to take it to the country in question and that it's not appropriate in places like Tucson? If attendance and subsequently profits are down is this going to have any impact? Are there any numbers on this?

I'm not sure I've been able to express myself properly and I know it has as much effect at the rough end of things as at the jewellers - IOW everyone hurts. Is it too late to stop this train?

Are we now going to see all varieties of stones being touted as "rare and hard to find" in an attempt to justify the sticker price?

 

[PrecisionGem]

I'll post a picture when I get home. I'm in Atlanta airport right now. They did look like flawless lab created emerald. Very uniform color. Every stone was exactly the same color and tone.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Starzin I don't see anything wrong with these "emeralds". The are certainly not trying to hide what the are, just the opposite explaining the process. The price is a small fraction of a real emerald. It offers a stone for people who can't afford a $80000 emerald to have something that looks like one.

 

[Starzin]

Starzin I don't see anything wrong with these "emeralds". The are certainly not trying to hide what the are, just the opposite explaining the process. The price is a small fraction of a real emerald. It offers a stone for people who can't afford a $80000 emerald to have something that looks like one.

Apologies for not clarifying - I was talking more about the spinel and tsav prices you first reported.

I actually agree that where there is full disclosure, as with these emeralds, there is no problem because it does enable people to purchase.

 

[PrecisionGem]

With tsavorites it a factor of very little material being found.

 

[eos512]

Just got back from GJX and AGTA shows. Spinel and tsavorite prices are through the roof.

So are we talking doubled? Tripled? What seems to be the reason for this... have all the mines "closed" again or is the Chinese market really having this sort of world wide impact?

The one way of stopping it is to not buy if it's simply greediness being factored in... i.e what the market will bear, though I agree this is hard if one country is on a buying spree. Can the message be sent to these vendors that to market at those prices they need to take it to the country in question and that it's not appropriate in places like Tucson? If attendance and subsequently profits are down is this going to have any impact? Are there any numbers on this?

I'm not sure I've been able to express myself properly and I know it has as much effect at the rough end of things as at the jewellers - IOW everyone hurts. Is it too late to stop this train?

Are we now going to see all varieties of stones being touted as "rare and hard to find" in an attempt to justify the sticker price?

Hi Starzin, you can't just blame Chinese for the rising price. It is true that prices of color
-stones go up when Chinese people start to look at this market instead of jade only. But there is nothing wrong since stones are scarce resource and it is all because of demand&supply. Actually, if I were not wrong, vendors did charge 30% higher in the gem fair in Beijing in last year. Should Chinese people then complain abt that? No doubt that we are all facing the rising price of the colored-stones, I think the best thing to do is either find the best stone we can get b4 it goes too high or simply shift to something else. For tsavorite, how abt try chrome tourmaline? Larger sizes, much less price per carat when exceeds 5 carat, though a bit darker.

 

[T L]

With tsavorites it a factor of very little material being found.

What about included spinels and tsavorites, or ones with less than desirable color? Are they still far less per carat?

If we're talking top gem quality, then yes, I can see very high prices, but most tsavorite I see is not top gem, nor is spinel. The price variance can be large then. I have seen some outrageous prices on very orange, muddy looking pink or red spinel though.

 

[chrono]

Good point, TL. I'm wondering whether the price increase affects spinel and tsavorite of varying quality or only fine quality gems. Does this mean that we will also see more treated (oiled and heated) spinel and tsavorite in the market as a way to sell included gems at a lower price?

 

[PrecisionGem]

Not too many years ago spinel was a little known stone. Now today it has gained popularity and recognition. It's always supply vs demand.
Not much production from Africa on either stone. This year I saw 4 pieces of new rough, when normally I a hundred at Tucson.

 

[innerkitten]

Maybe we've kind of felt this coming and that's why we've been seeing a lot of tourmaline on PS lately. It comes in green and pink, red, good sizes and it's more available. A few years ago I wasn't super interested in it. But lately I find myself very interested in the green ones I see here on PS.

 

[innerkitten]

With tsavorites it a factor of very little material being found.

Bummer. Well it does only come from one place. At least there are a few sources for spinel. I'm guessing the biggest source is Sri Lanka.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

The supply of Tsvorite garnet has always been scarce. A few nites ago JTV showed some Tsvorite Garnet. They had a 3 ctw heart shaped garnet for $12.000. It was a beautiful clean gem, but not what we would call top color. They had other tsavorite at lesser prices but definitily more than 5 yrs ago.

Just to point out that you used to be able to get a sterling silver ring with a nice ammy or topaz. or citrine for 69.00. Not bad at all. Now they want 129.00 for them. Since the last yr or two, everything there is about double. I always have sticker shock.

My point is that even lesser valued stones or not top quality have all risen in price. I think they have doubled.


Annette

 

[PrecisionGem]

Very true Annete, but it's just like vey thing else. Just filled the propane tank for heating the house it was $1100 last year it was $450.

 

[Starzin]

Hi Starzin, you can't just blame Chinese for the rising price. It is true that prices of color
-stones go up when Chinese people start to look at this market instead of jade only. But there is nothing wrong since stones are scarce resource and it is all because of demand&supply. Actually, if I were not wrong, vendors did charge 30% higher in the gem fair in Beijing in last year. Should Chinese people then complain abt that? No doubt that we are all facing the rising price of the colored-stones, I think the best thing to do is either find the best stone we can get b4 it goes too high or simply shift to something else. For tsavorite, how abt try chrome tourmaline? Larger sizes, much less price per carat when exceeds 5 carat, though a bit darker.

Eos - true re the Chinese market and however unfortunate, I think the size of that market has a lot to do with it's influence - at both the upper (precious stone/jewellery auctions) and lower ends (i.e. bead cutting factories) of the coloured stone market.

I totally agree that it's now about saving for the rarer stones or finding gems that appeal to us that are not perhaps the normally coveted ones, we can but drool over the others. Unfortunately spinel is one of the few gems that can compete on terms of durability and tsavs are not as "chippy" as tourmalines. Known as the rainbow of the coloured stone world, tourmaline does come in some truly gorgeous and unusual colours but is very prone to facet abrasion and thus not an every day ring gem.

Boards like PS have waves of interest in certain stones maybe it's time to create a run on quartz?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=650530841646824&set=vb.100000697423644&type=2&theater

My point is that even lesser valued stones or not top quality have all risen in price. I think they have doubled.

This.

Very true Annete, but it's just like vey thing else. Just filled the propane tank for heating the house it was $1100 last year it was $450.

Ouch!

eos512 - asking Gene for his reminds me to thank you for the photos posted earlier, it is terrific to see something of what is/was available.