Tucson Survival guide (for those not going)

[corundum_conundrum]

"Well, Tucson's coming up..." I hear this a lot. Both from cutters and from others on this forum.

So what does this mean to someone whose not going to the show? Is it best to sit-back and see what PS vendors post after their Tucson excursion, or should one put out lots of special requests, for, say, that special tsav or copper-bearing tourmaline they've been pining for (its a fancy sapphire, my case).

I've heard it said that Tucson is a great resource where precision cutters will pick-up material to practice their alchemy upon. I've also heard it said that sapphire rough is not really available there. So do any cutters pick-up pre-form sapphires to recut there, or is this not cost-effective?

What kind of rough is found in abundance at Tucson? Is it your best opportunity to pick-up any stones in particular (or stuff from a particualr region?)

I've heard it said that you should send out lots of emails to cutters and vendors. I've heard vendors suggest this is not a fair business practice, one that is to the disadvantage of vendors, and that it might even work against you if you have a dozen cutters looking for the same thing.

Do any cutters just not go and instead fill their war-chests with booty found at source? Do some go hog-wild at Tucson?

Any stories (and pictues!) of things purchased at Tucson (directly or indirectly) might help here. Basically, since "Tucson is coming up" in a couple months, I am hoping this thread can help others (and me) figure out just what the heck to do with that information.

Happy New Year PS,

C.C.

 

[chrono]

If someone has something in mind, it is best to make your request prior to the lapidary leaving for the show. They will be too busy to respond then, plus certain items might have already been reserved for others. I expect blue sapphires to be quite in demand with higher pricing than normally seen. Some will only buy rough but I've noticed more seem to be recutting finished goods as a way to increase their selection.

What will be the "hot" stone varies from year to year. I'm not sure what it'll be this year but if one has been keeping up with the news, their guess will be good. I've been slacking in this department this year.

Most do not go to Tucson as their main source but one of many. Rough is purchased at various shows, abroad close to or at the source, and via email contacts or online.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Thanks Chrono!

I too would be happy to know if anyone anticipates that we will see a lot of nice _____ stone after Tucson. In other words, if Tucson will be a nice place to find any stone(s) in particular.

It seems like you would be hard-pressed to get a precision cut blue sapphire that a cutter picked-up from Tucson, unless the cutter is inclined to work on pre-forms. So I think the lesson to blue sapphire seekers (and I think there are plenty of them) is to keep your fingers-crossed but don't hold your breath when it comes to someone finding a stone to cut for you at Tucson.

 

[PrecisionGem]

An interesting question, and I'm surprised you didn't get more responses.

Tucson draws in thousands of vendors from all over the world selling everything from tools, gems, minerals, supplies, and even bathroom sinks. You can buy an entire dinosaur, fossils hand woven rugs, jewelry beads, just about anything.

For the size of the show (it covers many many locations), there are really not a lot of rough facet grade stones for sale. There are a lot of rough non facet grade stones or rocks!

Here's some pictures from past years.

 

[PrecisionGem]

More pictures.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Now this is in a private room. You can't just walk in here. This is all higher end facet quality material. I'm going through these stones for maybe 5 or more hours, selecting pieces.

 

[PrecisionGem]

So to answer some of the questions.

You will NOT find rough blue sapphire from Sri Lanka. The government doesn't allow the rough out of the country it's all cut locally. So any western cutting who is selling blue sapphire they cut, is buying cut stones and cutting them over again. You can find some, and a very little bit of sapphire from Africa or Montana. Most of these are going to be small pieces that will cut around 1 ct or less.

I can't speak for the other cutters, but I usually do end up buying a pretty good parcel of stones. Mostly tourmaline, garnet, aquamarine, zircon,spinel, some sapphire and then the odd stones apatite etc. You never really know what you will find. I'll spend maybe from $10,000 to $30,000 on rough most years. It really depends what is around. I don't do much re-cutting of cut stones as it's not interesting or as much fun as turning a piece of rough into a finished stone. If I see some stones that are well suited to be re-cut I'll buy them, usually blue sapphire.

Normally I run into other cutters and sometimes the conversation will reveal that everyone is looking for the same stone for a person. Once I hear this, I'm out. No point in spending a lot of money on something that may not turn into an order. If it's something inexpensive, then it's not big deal, but if you are hunting for a 6 ct sapphire, well that can end up taking your entire budget for the trip.

Sometimes there is a hot stone, and good buys are to be had. A few years ago when the Ethiopian opal first came out there were really good buys on it. The next year the price was way up and everyone had it. This year it may be gone. We'll find out in a few weeks... "Tucson is coming up."

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Thanks for the informative post, Gene. I personally had underestimated the extent to which Tucson is a mineral and rock show, and perhaps over-estimated the extent to which it is a gem show.

I can't speak for the other cutters, but I usually do end up buying a pretty good parcel of stones. Mostly tourmaline, garnet, aquamarine, zircon,spinel,

This might not be representative of all cutters, but its certainly a place to start. I would suggest anyone looking for a stone in that robust list get in contact with some cutters very soon.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

An interesting question, and I'm surprised you didn't get more responses.

Here's where I'm thread-jacking my own thread to go meta on meta! (thread-jacking your own thread to comment on commenting!) I've found that two things can cause a dearth of responses: an absence of pictures, and an open-ended question. Pictures will catch the attention of respondents in much the same way that the guy in the hot-dog costume causes you to almost crash your car but you notice for the first time that there's a hot-dog joint on elm st. A higher-profile optimizes you chances of more business (or responses, in this case).

The second is that open-ended questions are kind of tough or laborious to answer. Its the same reason most of us were relieved in school to learn the test would be multiple choice and not a series of essay questions.

So if you want lots of responses on this board, by all means post a picture and ask a straight-forward question! "ie is this a nice blank-blank?" "no" "yes" "no" "well, for the money I guess" Okay, meta on meta threadjack complete.

 

[wordie89]

Thanks, gene. I'll probably never get to Tucson so it wad interesting to hear a little about it And see the pictures. I've only been to one jewelery show and wasn't looking at unset gems at that time. Just dragged willing husband to an intern and found some green stones i hope to use with a pink spinel. Even at what seemed to be a small show there was sooooo much stuff to look at and examine.

 

[michellechan2211]

An interesting question, and I'm surprised you didn't get more responses.

Here's where I'm thread-jacking my own thread to go meta on meta! (thread-jacking your own thread to comment on commenting!) I've found that two things can cause a dearth of responses: an absence of pictures, and an open-ended question. Pictures will catch the attention of respondents in much the same way that the guy in the hot-dog costume causes you to almost crash your car but you notice for the first time that there's a hot-dog joint on elm st. A higher-profile optimizes you chances of more business (or responses, in this case).

The second is that open-ended questions are kind of tough or laborious to answer. Its the same reason most of us were relieved in school to learn the test would be multiple choice and not a series of essay questions.

So if you want lots of responses on this board, by all means post a picture and ask a straight-forward question! "ie is this a nice blank-blank?" "no" "yes" "no" "well, for the money I guess" Okay, meta on meta threadjack complete.

^ As a student, I totally agree 8D //threadjack over

I do wish I could go though, but then I'm don't even live in the States! XD so I guess, uh, have fun, everyone who is going?

 

[PrecisionGem]

What's interesting about Tucson is that it isn't one show, but a whole bunch happening all over the city. Almost every hotel along highway 10 gets turned into a show. They remove the beds from the rooms, and the hotel rooms turn into mini stores. Each show has it's own flavor and cater to certain types of vendors. Aside from the gems, there is some really interesting things to be found.

I really like the break from the winter weather, and of course the Mexican food too.

 

[royalstarrynight]

Hi Gene

Normally I run into other cutters and sometimes the conversation will reveal that everyone is looking for the same stone for a person. Once I hear this, I'm out. No point in spending a lot of money on something that may not turn into an order. If it's something inexpensive, then it's not big deal, but if you are hunting for a 6 ct sapphire, well that can end up taking your entire budget for the trip.
"

From the cutters point of view, would it be ok to ask around for say a 2-4 carat tourmaline or spinel between 2-3 vendors?

Those private rooms must be a treat to see! I can't imagine one person seeing everything from one show!

 

[michellechan2211]

What's interesting about Tucson is that it isn't one show, but a whole bunch happening all over the city. Almost every hotel along highway 10 gets turned into a show. They remove the beds from the rooms, and the hotel rooms turn into mini stores. Each show has it's own flavor and cater to certain types of vendors. Aside from the gems, there is some really interesting things to be found.

I really like the break from the winter weather, and of course the Mexican food too.

Oh, that's interesting to know Gene! I always assumed Tuscon was just one large convention. As for the warmer weather, I bet it sounds good for the folks who've been cold all winter. Right now, however, I'm wishing for cooler weather, so that's obviously not the main draw when there's sparkly things. XD;

(BTW, on the picture with the heads: @_@ As I like beads and make beaded jewellery as a hobby, that makes me unreasnably excited XD; )

 

[velouriaL]

Thank you for these pictures, Gene! They made my night.

 

[LD]

An interesting question, and I'm surprised you didn't get more responses.

Here's where I'm thread-jacking my own thread to go meta on meta! (thread-jacking your own thread to comment on commenting!) I've found that two things can cause a dearth of responses: an absence of pictures, and an open-ended question. Pictures will catch the attention of respondents in much the same way that the guy in the hot-dog costume causes you to almost crash your car but you notice for the first time that there's a hot-dog joint on elm st. A higher-profile optimizes you chances of more business (or responses, in this case).

The second is that open-ended questions are kind of tough or laborious to answer. Its the same reason most of us were relieved in school to learn the test would be multiple choice and not a series of essay questions.

So if you want lots of responses on this board, by all means post a picture and ask a straight-forward question! "ie is this a nice blank-blank?" "no" "yes" "no" "well, for the money I guess" Okay, meta on meta threadjack complete.

Sorry but I don't agree. I didn't answer because I have no interest in Tucson. The title of your post put me off - why do I need a survival guide for something I don't go to and it doesn't affect me?!!!! As I'm not in the US the only thing that interests me is if there are any trends being seen there - although typically we see the trends on this board anyway. If there are trends they can dictate market prices going forward. That's it for me!

Gene's posts were informative and the photos great to see so I'm glad he chimed in.

I'm happy to answer open ended questions because they often lead to good debates. There have been many many threads on this basis. If the topic is interesting enough, please will participate. If it doesn't peak somebody's interest they won't. It's not about being lazy.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Here's a few more pictures. In past years, I have not taken a lot of pictures, since my camera is too big to lug around. This year I think I'll take my wife's small digital, and maybe use the iPhone more, posting them live on Twitter.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Beads are everywhere, and really cheap. One year I bought a few stands of pearls. I know nothing about pearls, but they were pretty, and only a few dollars (CASH) per strand. Pretty much CASH is the only way to pay.

 

[iLander]

Thank you for the awesome pics, Gene! Very helpful and informative.

The picture of the freshwater pearls points out one of my pearl pet peeves; freshwater pearls don't need to be expensive. There are literally millions of strands out there, I see them at bead shows all the time for $10 for medium quality up to $100 for excellent, flawless quality with awesome luster. Then I see people paying $400-$700 for a strand of freshies with some kind of made up brand name, and it irks me, since "rarity" is certainly not a factor. I prefer to buy my freshies from an ebay vendor that picks out (from the dross) the truly unique, natural colors, and sells only those for a few dollars. But this is not the thread for that.

The whole Tucson show reminds me of the local gem shows and bead shows that I go to, but instead of one of anything, there are 100 of everything. Instead of the one giant amethyst slab, there are hundreds.

What special finds are at Tucson that you wouldn't find at your standard gem show?

Besides the dinosaur "halo", of course.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Tucson is like 50 gem shows, all going on at the same time, spread all over the town. People will go for two weeks, and not see everything. I go for just 2 full days, and 2 half days. I never get to most shows, but hit those places that will have facet grade rough. I move pretty fast, know where to park, and who I want to see. There are also a lot of parking lot deals and hotel room deals going on that are not part of the formal shows. You will see guys from Africa coming to sell to some of the rough dealers. You may need to buy a large parcel from them, but some really nice stones can be had this way.

Some year I'll come down with a truck, since there is a limit to what can be brought home on an airplane. I see these really pretty bathroom sinks and counters carved from huge fossils and and then polished. I's like to get one someday.

 

[LD]

iLander/Gene, in the UK you can buy a strand of glass pearls for around £2. For shell pearls it's around £1-5. For cultured pearls (dyed and un-dyed) the prices range from £5-10 for a fairly long strand. I make my own jewellery and love pearls so often make jewellery with them and if I use sterling silver findings they look very pretty.

Although it goes against the grain to love the big, uneven alien pearls (3rd from the right) they can give a really modern funky look to a pearl necklace.

 

[minousbijoux]

Thank you for the awesome pics, Gene! Very helpful and informative.

The picture of the freshwater pearls points out one of my pearl pet peeves; freshwater pearls don't need to be expensive. There are literally millions of strands out there, I see them at bead shows all the time for $10 for medium quality up to $100 for excellent, flawless quality with awesome luster. Then I see people paying $400-$700 for a strand of freshies with some kind of made up brand name, and it irks me, since "rarity" is certainly not a factor. I prefer to buy my freshies from an ebay vendor that picks out (from the dross) the truly unique, natural colors, and sells only those for a few dollars. But this is not the thread for that.

The whole Tucson show reminds me of the local gem shows and bead shows that I go to, but instead of one of anything, there are 100 of everything. Instead of the one giant amethyst slab, there are hundreds.

What special finds are at Tucson that you wouldn't find at your standard gem show?

Besides the dinosaur "halo", of course.

Couldn't agree more. It seems that with the exception of a few rooms off-limits-to-mere-mortals-like-us where the collector quality gems, and/or facet grade rough resides, the rest of the show is like the local on steroids - just bigger, bulkier, with more of everything, including the typical flotsam and jetsam.

I also have little interest in this thread as its the same thread every year, and agree that the two things I care about coming out of Tucson are hearing about: 1) any new finds/discoveries/treatments; and 2) trends that attenders observe or hear about that may affect future pricing. Of course, I also like Gene's photos of unique items (the dinosaur nest). The other photos could be any bead and gem show just about anywhere...

 

[minousbijoux]

Oh, and I might be in a particularly bad mood about Tucson this year, because, during the duration of the show, I will be flying in and out and needing to find a hotel to - gasp! - actually sleep in while I'm there, so I'm not at all keen on the whole thing.

 

[PrecisionGem]

minousbijoux, if you are not keen on going, then why go?

I have been to maybe 6 or 7 of the typical "local" gem shows. Tucson has a much better selection, quality and price that what I normally see at these shows. Most local type shows are open the general public, typically charge $5 or so to get in, and don't have true wholesale pricing. Many Tucson shows are not open to the public, and are wholesale prices shows with much higher end material. I've seen rubies in Tucson for $800,000 that are just spectacular. I have never seen anything like this at the local shows.

To get into the GJX and AGTA shows you MUST be in the trade and registered. At these shows you will very high end goods never shown at the local shows. I never bother going to the local shows any more, as there is nothing there I would be interested in.

 

[Dioptase]

Ah, Tucson...my favourite time of the year!
There's something special about it, and not just because of the amazing quantity of fabulous stones gathered. I just like the ambience of the place.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Sorry but I don't agree. I didn't answer because I have no interest in Tucson. The title of your post put me off - why do I need a survival guide for something I don't go to and it doesn't affect me?!!!! As I'm not in the US the only thing that interests me is if there are any trends being seen there - although typically we see the trends on this board anyway. If there are trends they can dictate market prices going forward. That's it for me!

Gene's posts were informative and the photos great to see so I'm glad he chimed in.

I'm happy to answer open ended questions because they often lead to good debates. There have been many many threads on this basis. If the topic is interesting enough, please will participate. If it doesn't peak somebody's interest they won't. It's not about being lazy.

[/quote]

LD, you are correct that there are other reasons why others don't respond in addition to this being open-ended. But just because its not interesting to you does not mean its not interesting to others. And I dare say that given how frequently posters are advised that "Tucson is coming up," this thread should darn-well be of interest to them so that they know what to do with that information!

I said that "most" people are more enticed by multiple-choice than the essay question. There are obviously exceptions to this as should be implied by my use of "most", and I suppose you are one of them. But I don't think your affinity for the open-ended question is indicative of a general trend, and I think my original generalization that most people are more inclined to answer when the question is easier to answer is correct. I also didn't mean to suggest that this was laziness--something more like efficiency is what I had in mind.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Couldn't agree more. It seems that with the exception of a few rooms off-limits-to-mere-mortals-like-us where the collector quality gems, and/or facet grade rough resides, the rest of the show is like the local on steroids - just bigger, bulkier, with more of everything, including the typical flotsam and jetsam.

I also have little interest in this thread as its the same thread every year, and agree that the two things I care about coming out of Tucson are hearing about: 1) any new finds/discoveries/treatments; and 2) trends that attenders observe or hear about that may affect future pricing. Of course, I also like Gene's photos of unique items (the dinosaur nest). The other photos could be any bead and gem show just about anywhere...

Hey Minous and (Ilander)!

Your dissatisfaction with Tucson (at least the consumer side) is actually extremely helpful as far as I am concerned. I've been to local gem shows, and not been terribly impressed. So if one thing this thread accomplishes is to temper expectations about what can be found at Tucson, I think that could be very helpful to folks like me who see tons of posts that advise people that Tucson will afford a great opportunity to find what they've been looking for...

 

[LD]

Deleted my own post.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Sorry LD if that came off as snarky.

We can still be friends even if we disagree on things. I like a good argument, too.

 

[minousbijoux]

minousbijoux, if you are not keen on going, then why go?

I have been to maybe 6 or 7 of the typical "local" gem shows. Tucson has a much better selection, quality and price that what I normally see at these shows. Most local type shows are open the general public, typically charge $5 or so to get in, and don't have true wholesale pricing. Many Tucson shows are not open to the public, and are wholesale prices shows with much higher end material. I've seen rubies in Tucson for $800,000 that are just spectacular. I have never seen anything like this at the local shows.

To get into the GJX and AGTA shows you MUST be in the trade and registered. At these shows you will very high end goods never shown at the local shows. I never bother going to the local shows any more, as there is nothing there I would be interested in.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'll be in Tucson for an entirely different reason and it unfortunately overlaps with the show. Logistically, it will be a challenge due to the show. At first, I thought how awesome it would be to attend the show, but it sounds like it would only make sense if I still had a license, since otherwise I wouldn't be able to get to the "good stuff," as you describe, above. Sigh.