Two unheated Sapphires found in Hong Kong

[5starclown]

Hi All,

A local jeweler friend put me in touch with a HK wholesaler (International Company, wholly owned by Honest ltd.) who had a pretty fair selection of unheated sapphires, ranging from 3-6cts. Looking through their stock, I found two loose stones that I thought might be perfect for my engagement ring. As I'm still a newbie in the jewelery space, I thought it might be a good idea to throw the stones up here and get some expert opinions

Stone 1: Sq. Cushion, 3.02ct @ $6.7K

 

[5starclown]

The second stone: Sq. Cushion, 3.42ct, vivid blue @ $9.8K

 

[chrono]

I suspect that both sapphires are badly windowed from your pictures by virtue of the center looking "dead" compared to the rest of the stone. Any proof that these sapphires are unheated per a reputable lab report? Colour-wise, neither look vivid on my monitor but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt because it could just be poor photography.

The following info is good reading on how to select a good coloured stone.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

For what I consider top colour, here is Slksapphire's stone.

 

[pregcurious]

I agree with Chrono's assessment of the color in the pics; they are not vivid. If the color of the stones are what _you_ like, then please proceed on. Not everyone has the same color preferences.

For the windowing, you assess if it has a window yourself by just putting a piece of paper behind the stone with writing, and seeing if you can read the text. See an example here under Cut>Proportions:
http://www.palagems.com/quality_4cs.htm

 

[chrono]

The area encircled within the red shows a "dead" zone where I can see through it. It's not too terrible in the setting but it also does not sparkle at all compared to the outer edges.

 

[slksapphire]

hi 5starclown,

i sourced my sapphire in hong kong with the kind help of dick hughes (i sent him an email through his website). until i met dick, my sapphire search was going pretty badly, to say the least. i couldn't find a lot of supply in unheated, 5+ carat sapphires through any jewelers, wholesalers, etc. (though i never worked with yours). i think i personally saw about 20 stones, but none were of excellent color, saturation, etc in my opinion.

things finally came together when i got in contact with dick and he sourced a bunch (maybe 10?) stones at the gem fair in hong kong. if you live in hong kong, it is definitely worthwhile to wait for the fair to get the best supply of sapphires. the fair is only to the trade, so you need someone to get you in (like dick) to view the gems.

if you don't live in hong kong, i would try to source a gem in the u.s. unheated sapphires are extremely popular in asia, especially china, and my view is that pricing here is slightly higher than in the u.s.

good luck in your search.

 

[minousbijoux]

Silksapphire: it is important to note that you were willing to pay a pretty penny for your sapphire, just so the OP doesn't believe she/he is getting ripped off if they cannot find a similar one in their price range...

 

[slksapphire]

mb,

i totally agree with you. my perception, though, is that blue sapphire at all price ranges (heated and unheated) tends to be a bit more expensive here than in the u.s. due to demand from china (though, given all of these sapphire threads, it is clear that blue sapphires are popular everywhere!)

eta: actually, most things here in hong kong are more expensive than in the u.s., especially in the retail and luxury sectors. there are many reasons for this, including the much higher cost of real estate, but it comes down to the fact that retailers can get away with it because people are willing to buy at the higher price points. (a friends works in retail for a major u.s. luxury brand and their prices in hk start at 75% than in the u.s., just because.)

 

[minousbijoux]

mb,

i totally agree with you. my perception, though, is that blue sapphire at all price ranges (heated and unheated) tends to be a bit more expensive here than in the u.s. due to demand from china (though, given all of these sapphire threads, it is clear that blue sapphires are popular everywhere!)

eta: actually, most things here in hong kong are more expensive than in the u.s., especially in the retail and luxury sectors. there are many reasons for this, including the much higher cost of real estate, but it comes down to the fact that retailers can get away with it because people are willing to buy at the higher price points. (a friends works in retail for a major u.s. luxury brand and their prices in hk start at 75% than in the u.s., just because.)

That makes quite a bit of sense. Another factor is that sapphires have gone up considerably even in the short space of time since you bought yours - think of now how much it would've cost to buy your sapphire now!

 

[JewelFreak]

I don't think either sapphire is a good candidate. Windows & a lot of extinction in both.

Things have sure changed -- when I was in HK 20 yrs ago (ancient history, just sayin'), everything -- especially luxury items -- was less expensive. I wasn't buying gems then but got a few gorgeous pieces of clothing for a song compared to the U.S. Beautiful quality too -- I still have one jacket that looks as good as the day it was born. Funny how places trend up & down with time.

--- Laurie

 

[LD]

Just one thing you need to be aware of when assessing for windows. Preg has suggested putting a piece of paper under the gem and seeing if you can read text through it. In gems that are this dark, that test doesn't work too well because the darkness obscures the writing. Chrono has referenced "dead" areas in the middle of the stone which is probably what you'll see easier. It'll look flat, won't really perform and just won't be nice nice as the edges. The other way of testing this on dark gems is to hold it up to a light between tweezers and you'll see that the middle looks much lighter. For expensive stones you really don't want to see such large windows.

 

[pregcurious]

Thanks for the correction LD.

 

[Jereni]

I am not as good judging windows as others are, but agree that they are darker...if paying that money I would want a more vivid stone.

 

[LD]

Thanks for the correction LD.

Hope you don't think I was being snippy? x

 

[pregcurious]

No, I didn't think you were snippy at all. It is a good point. Anything to help the OP. LD, I think you and Chrono are some of the most helpful posters here. I wouldn't know much if it weren't for you ladies.

I think if a poster does not see a window themselves, and we do, it probably means they do not know yet how to identify one. Chrono's image makes sense to me, but it might still be unclear to the OP. It's good to have another way to test oneself, and holding a dark stone up to a window is a great idea.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Since silk-sapphire's sapphire has come up a lot lately as the "ideal" color for a sapphire (and I personally think its tremendous), I think this might be an opportune moment to bring up the fact that its great color and lack of extinction is only make possible because of the silk. To get a sapphire with such nice color of the identical hue and tone would usually require 1). A nice silky stone and/or 2). A very good cut.

I would welcome anyone who wants to dispute this, but it might be somewhat misleading to point to this stone as the color that sapphire seekers should aspire to without adding that to achieve this hue and tone without extinction, you need some silk or a top cut.

 

[chrono]

And note that the amount of silk is light; it does not detract from its beauty or light performance. There is a difference between a lot of silk and a touch of silk. Too much silk is not desirable. The touch of silk helps diffuse the colour better which gives it that slight glow and lack of extinction. That said, the colour itself is highly desirable as well because of the hue, tone and saturation. I am also sure that many PSers would not recommend a poorly cut stone nor something that shows too much extinction.

 

[LD]

Since silk-sapphire's sapphire has come up a lot lately as the "ideal" color for a sapphire (and I personally think its tremendous), I think this might be an opportune moment to bring up the fact that its great color and lack of extinction is only make possible because of the silk. To get a sapphire with such nice color of the identical hue and tone would usually require 1). A nice silky stone and/or 2). A very good cut.

I would welcome anyone who wants to dispute this, but it might be somewhat misleading to point to this stone as the color that sapphire seekers should aspire to without adding that to achieve this hue and tone without extinction, you need some silk or a top cut.

Not wishing to be contenscious but I disagree. Silk can help in some stones but others I've seen do not have silk and are not necessarily well cut but the colour is stunning.

 

[5starclown]

Hi All,

Thank you for all of the feedback! I really appreciate it. Yesterday was my first real hands-on time with Sapphires. I met with a number of wholesalers and came away thoroughly daunted.

@ Chrono, pregcurious, LD, I appreciate the advice - very helpful! Particularly as I've got more meetings set up today. A question - is it expected to have more of a window issue with emerald cuts? I ran into a lot of center windows yesterday, but was told that it was standard. Based on what I've learned so far, I passed on the stones, but the feedback surprised me.

@ Thanks SLKSapphire for your recommendation - I'll reach out!I don't live in HK full time but come in and out for family and business. I've had trouble finding Sapphire dealers in NYC and hoped to have a bit of better luck out here. Thanks to minousbijoux as well for helping manage expectations SLKSapphire's stone is definitely stunning and definitely outside of my price range

Thanks all! You are the best.


-

 

[chrono]

Any stone that is poorly cut is likely to show windowing regardless of shape. That said, it easier for an emerald or step cut to show windowing because there are so few facets, so it is even more important that the angles are correct or it will show all too easily. We used to call those "native" cuts but decided it was not an appropriate term. There are both good and poor native cut stones. Unfortunately, there seem to be more poorly cut stones than well cut stones, and I'm not even delving into precision cutting. This is often done to save weight, thus able to charge higher $/ct pricing compared to having to cut away such expensive and precious material. Whether it is standard or not, personally it isn't acceptable as it makes the stone lifeless. I will accept very small windows if the colouration is fantastic and the price is right. For others, any sized window is unacceptable.

 

[LD]

In reality you've got a tough search because great blue sapphires do not come around often. When they do, you may want to compromise slightly. The thing is, you'll know when you see "the" stone because it'll scream "buy me". So try to get the best you can but please take your time.

 

[chrono]

Arkteia's blue sapphire is another that I covet. 5 ct of unheated goodness even though it is cut extremely deep.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-decided-to-post-something-too.180112/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-decided-to-post-something-too.180112/[/URL]

The next two are LD's holy grail sapphire. Not the best cut and doesn't look silky.

 

[5starclown]

Thanks for the clarity, Chrono and LD. Appreciate it. From everything I've read, I'm gearing up for a long, hard search. I'll definitely post in PS when I find "the" stone

 

[pregcurious]

Mmm, blue goodness.

 

[LD]

Thank you for posting those photos Chrono. So as you can see, you may find silk or not! The cut may be good or not. What typically people look for is a stone without too many black areas (extinction) and a colour that screams BLUE! You may find that your compromise will be cut or size. In my case, the compromise was both! The stone is smaller than I wanted and the cut is not good but hey ho - I love the colour!

Arketeia's stone is beautiful and I know she was thrilled when she got it (and so were we because it's gorgeous) but I suspect the compromise for her was that it's a deep stone so faces up smaller than a 5ct stone might. Would you care about that? I wouldn't!

In the real world if we had cash to burn, none of us would accept compromise but ................

 

[slksapphire]

i would echo what ld and chrono have said. i had to compromise, as well. my sapphire has a decent-sized feather inclusion (clear) that runs perpendicular to the top of the sapphire. you can't see it when looking at the ring straight on but if you tilt the stone the right way and in the right light, it is very apparent. from a clarity perspective, agl has it graded as Li2 transitional, which means that the stone is pretty clear OTHER than the feather.

i also was hoping for a burma and ended up with ceylon. my 2 final contenders were a slightly larger burma cushion and the one i chose. i just had to have the color.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

What typically people look for is a stone without too many black areas (extinction) and a colour that screams BLUE!

This is of course what matters, and I didn't mean to imply that all stones of this color must have silk or a perfect cut.

I appreciate the examples of Sapphires that are not exceptionally well cut, are largely not silky, and show medium-dark blue without extinction. I still maintain that if one is seeking a medium-dark blue along the lines of Silksapphire's stone, a lack of extinction will be correlated either with a somewhat silky stone or a nice cut. There are nevertheless some stones that still show this great medium-dark blue without these attributes as many have pointed out. What I wanted to convey is that when seeking this color, the risk of extinction is great, and one will have to be on guard against it, and knowing that touch of silk and a nice cut are correlated with a lack of extinction might help one choose a nice stone.

But the ultimate key is, as LD mentioned, to have a look-see to make sure that it does not have too much black area/extinction.