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Ultimatums. . . .just curious

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Date: 4/6/2010 3:52:21 PM
Author: anonLIW

He just says that he 'sees a future for us', and that he doesn't want me to go...and that there are no 'showstoppers' or reasons that we wouldn't someday get married. It's causing major stress in our relationship and always ends up in tears. But he still isn't saying what I want to hear ('Yes, I want to marry you in the future'). What do you ladies think? Anyone ever been in a similar situation (having to make career choices or sacrafices while 'just dating')?


Well, sort of, but I don't consider them sacrifices - they were personal choices. A choice always involves taking one path over another(s). You can see those others not taken as sacrifices, but I don't view it that way.

When I first started dating my husband, he was starting the process to leave his military career. He was not wanting to stay in the city I lived in (and where he was posted) after that. I meanwhile was finishing my last year of law school, and had a job lined up in that same city (my hometown).

My now-husband was thinking of going back to school, in another province (his home province). He did have a city in mind for this, but it could of been anywhere in the province as it depended on what program he went to, and so on. We did talk about what might happen in respect of our relationship, but nothing firm. We had after all only been together a handful of months by this point. We knew we had something special, but it was way too early to get engaged or married...or even to say "let's move together". Now-husband definitely expressed his feelings for me (and me for him) and we did want to have a relationship, but we were still learning about one another and were not ready to say "yes, this is it!". It was stressful as I really cared for him (and he for me) but too too early to say let's get married or even....we are going to get married one day. We had a very emotionally open relationship and talked about everything including marriage, but not yet reached a point that it was right for us..if that makes sense. Neither he, nor I, could say anything other than "we wanted to see where things went and really knew we had something very special and did not really want to be apart".

I had considered moving for a long time out of my current city. I made some cold calls and applied for a position out in the city he planned to move, knowing that if he did move to this province we would be somewhat near one another, and if he didn't, I would still have a kick ass job in a place that I liked. I HAD visited that city before once or twice for short periods of time. Now-husband knew of course I was applying.

During my reading week I flew out for a day, had an interview, flew back home. Was offered the job. Accepted as it was an AWESOME position and a great opportunity. Regardless of what now-husband opted to do. Told the other place I was not going to be starting with them. Found an apartment in the new city via the internet. Now-husband retired out of the military. I graduated. Around this time he offered that I move my stuff into his place so I could get out of paying an extra months rent, so I did and "lived" there for a couple weeks. Two weeks later we shared a moving van and drove two days to the new city. Moved in my stuff to my new apartment. We decided that now-husband was moving in with me while we moved in my stuff (ha, that sounds worse than it was!). He has gone back to school here, though is still deciding what fits for him (he will be here, just not sure whether he is going to continue with the schooling or look for work here instead)

Here I am almost a year later. THRILLED with my job. Not a sacrifice at all. It was actually a far better opportunity. While definitely him thinking of moving here was an influence, I made the decision for me. Funnily enough, before I ever met DH, and I was in this city, I thought...wow, I would love to live here - I was in another long term relationship at the time and he was very much grounded where we were...no moving happening!

We BOTH love it here. He is closer to family in the province (none in this city). We both love this part of the world. Love the opportunities we have found and definitely the lifestyle. We are very outdoorsy people and this place is great for that. We have lots of free time (despite a demanding career on my part). We love our little apartment. I am thrilled with my career. He enjoys his schooling, being close to some of his friends, and just the general environment. And...we both love being together. It is different being farther from my own family and there are times I notice that it can be difficult that way, but, I am not homesick (and I see them now and then and talk to them regularly).

Oh, and obviously, when we moved - even when we moved in - there was no firm agreement for engagement or marriage. After some more time, and more experiences together, he proposed. That was about 5 months after we moved, and a year after we started dating. We married a couple months after that.

But...even if he had not moved in with me, we had not got married, and so on...I would still be happy with my decision as it was the RIGHT decision for me to make. I did make my decision recognizing that I felt my relationship was important and I wanted to be with my now-husband (not long distance) and felt that we had a very good future ahead of us, so it was not purely "all about me", but there were no guarantees of any sort what would happen then, or later. There are always risks involved. It might have ended up being he did not move here, I hated it here, hated the job and so on...and then decided to move back. But I was willing to take those risks and only had myself to "blame" for taking them!

So, your story may vary. Of course it will...you are different people in different circumstances. All I can say is....there are never guarantees. Whether you stay, or whether you go things may or may not work out with your partner. You may not move, and things don't work out, or you may move, and things do. Life is uncertain. All you can do is make choices that fit for YOU considering the circumstances as you know them right now. You would not be in the wrong for making your relationship and your boyfriend a priority in this decision, but it should not feel like a "sacrifice" either, nor would you be wrong for making the move and seeing what happens even if you cannot continue long distance - it really should be a decision you make based on what is important to YOU.

I don't think your boyfriend can say "yes, we are going to get married" as he does not know yet - as he sounds not ready YET. 19 months may be plenty for some, even for you, but sounds like at this point it is not plenty for him. And he can't make that promise until he knows. He has expressed what is going on for him right now. He probably also does not want to make the decision FOR you as it seems like you are almost asking him to do (i.e. if he says yes I will marry you....then you will stay, otherwise you won't). It is a lot to put on someone else - having them make a decision for you. And, unfair really. Even if he says "I want to marry you in the future" it does not mean he WILL. So, if you make a decision based on that.....and it does not work out, how are you going to feel? This is why you MUST make the decision for your own reasons, knowing that there is a risk whatever you choose, and be willing to take those risks.
 
Gosh that was long...sorry.

Cliffs Notes:

Make the decision based on what works for you on what you know and according to what is important for YOU. That involves some risks as you can't look into the future to know what will happen either way. Don't look to him to make the decision for you - which is really what you are currently doing right now in a round-a-bout way.
 
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to ultimatums!

internal deadlines are fine in my books, but only because you should not have to wait forever for someone to get on your path, sometimes you may have to shove them off and continue on your ownsome!

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Ultimatums seem like a really bad option to me! Wouldn''t a better situation be to have open conversations about what the other person wanted? Healthy relationships are based on being able to communicate needs to another person. Deciding to get married is one major way of communicating a need to another person. Being able to say "I want to get married" is a hard thing to say, but also a healthy way of communicating a need. Giving another person an "ultimatium" seems to be a breakdown of communication. Rather than giving an "ultimatium", wouldn''t a healthier option be to talk about what is slowing the progress to marriage? What does the SO need in their life to propose? Is the other person willing wait?
 
I have known plenty of girls who gave their boyfriends ultimatums. It is never ever EVER a good idea. NO exceptions. It always ends badly, and if you have to put that level of pressure on someone, then I''m sorry, but he is obviously not that keen and he is unlikely to change his mind, even if he does give in to the pressure and walk reluctantly down the aisle.
 
I would never give someone an ultimatum to get them to propose. Why would I want to *force* someone to marry me? I wanted my husband to want to marry me as badly as I wanted to marry him.
 
I thought about giving one but good that I didn't. I know my bf too well. It will not work on him. lol... I want him to want to marry me because he loves me. Now, I'm waiting for the ring. (We found our diamond.)
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Here's my against the grain opinion:

I didn't give an ultimatum, but I certainly would have if it had reached that point. As long as your purpose is sanity and not manipulation, I think having an open conversation about your expectations for your own life in order to see if his are line with that dream is a good idea. The decision to marry is a mutual decision, not always a fairytale story of surprise. Here's my story, hopefully as succint as possible.

March 2002: started dating two months before graduation as a fling.
June 2002: He is commssioned into the Navy and enters the pilot training program, moving across the country. Our relationship hits its predetermined expiration date, yet he calls me the night he gets to Florida.

~on again/ off again long distance dating~

January 2005: He moves to Japan. We break up.
April 2007:He wants to come visit. I say no because I have a boyfriend. In the five years that we had dated or not dated, we had NEVER lost contact, and I had NEVER told him that another guy took precedence over him. This lead to a conversation in which he told me that he though we would be married someday and he is heartbroken. I broke up with the other guy with the understanding that we were looking towards a real future.

March 2008: He moves to south Texas. I live in north Texas. yay! we're on the same continent! in the same time zone!
June 2008: I move to south Texas. yay! same zip code!
October 2008: He proposes!
July 2009: We are married!


When I moved to south Texas,I did so with the understanding that it was see if we should get married and to start our joined life. It wasn't because I love mosquitoes and a lower paying job. My own decision was that I would not renew a lease if we were not engaged. The lease was to end in May 2009. I felt that a year was enough time for us to make a decision, given our looooooong history and the understanding with which he asked me to end a relationship and wait for him to return to the states. Therefore, I was going to tell him in January 2009 that he had until May to make a final decision. Luckily, I never had to have that conversation as he proposed on his own.

I'm soooo glad that he did, but I surely would have stuck to plan. The most important part of an "ultimatum" is to be honest with yourself, honest with your partner, and don't make empty threats. This isn't a bargaining tool, it's an honest expression of what you want from life.
 
Date: 4/13/2010 11:19:35 PM
Author: Guilty Pleasure
Here''s my against the grain opinion:

I didn''t give an ultimatum, but I certainly would have if it had reached that point. As long as your purpose is sanity and not manipulation, I think having an open conversation about your expectations for your own life in order to see if his are line with that dream is a good idea. The decision to marry is a mutual decision, not always a fairytale story of surprise. Here''s my story, hopefully as succint as possible.

March 2002: started dating two months before graduation as a fling.
June 2002: He is commssioned into the Navy and enters the pilot training program, moving across the country. Our relationship hits its predetermined expiration date, yet he calls me the night he gets to Florida.

~on again/ off again long distance dating~

January 2005: He moves to Japan. We break up.
April 2007:He wants to come visit. I say no because I have a boyfriend. In the five years that we had dated or not dated, we had NEVER lost contact, and I had NEVER told him that another guy took precedence over him. This lead to a conversation in which he told me that he though we would be married someday and he is heartbroken. I broke up with the other guy with the understanding that we were looking towards a real future.

March 2008: He moves to south Texas. I live in north Texas. yay! we''re on the same continent! in the same time zone!
June 2008: I move to south Texas. yay! same zip code!
October 2008: He proposes!
July 2009: We are married!


When I moved to south Texas,I did so with the understanding that it was see if we should get married and to start our joined life. It wasn''t because I love mosquitoes and a lower paying job. My own decision was that I would not renew a lease if we were not engaged. The lease was to end in May 2009. I felt that a year was enough time for us to make a decision, given our looooooong history and the understanding with which he asked me to end a relationship and wait for him to return to the states. Therefore, I was going to tell him in January 2009 that he had until May to make a final decision. Luckily, I never had to have that conversation as he proposed on his own.

I''m soooo glad that he did, but I surely would have stuck to plan. The most important part of an ''ultimatum'' is to be honest with yourself, honest with your partner, and don''t make empty threats. This isn''t a bargaining tool, it''s an honest expression of what you want from life.
awww... you guys are meant to be together forever...
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call me old fashion, but I believe in fate and that everything happens for a reason
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Thank you so much beezygal! I really am so incredibly happy. Every day seems to bring a new depth to our marriage even though I felt like my heart was as full as it could be on our wedding day.

Our wedding dance was "Will You Go With Me", fitting since his career in the military dictates our location. But in line with the topic of the thread, I chose to only go as his legal partner and wife... not as a girlfriend.

Best wishes to any of the ladies in waiting who is struggling with the decision of giving an ultimatum, either to her boyfriend or to herself. I'll say that while I support ultimatums, I clearly also support patience
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There is a difference to me between discussing expectations together in an open and honest way and setting ultimatums. I don''t think a proposal should ever be a complete surprise (as in never having talked about marriage) after all.

If two people are ready to get married - they will. If one wants to get married sooner than the other they can either sit down together and work together on a timeframe or decide they are not willing to wait and move on. What I don''t agree with is using your own timeline as a threat for leaving. I am not willing to make decisions in my life under ultimatum and don''t expect anyone else to either.

For the record the only times I have seen ultimatums is in situations where they clearly have different attitudes towards their relationship or simply do not communicate. I have also seen it in couples where one is very focused on ''wedding fever''. I have not seen it end well in any case.
 
Not really an "ultimatum" but he knows that I want to be engaged before I turn 30, which is in a year and a half. We both know that we''re going to get married but it''s just a matter of when.

Sometimes guys need a little kick in the rear to get things moving along...
 
Date: 4/6/2010 4:57:51 PM
Author: RaiKai
Gosh that was long...sorry.

Don''t be! I liked it-it was a very good story. Thanks for sharing.
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