shape
carat
color
clarity

Update on round blue sapphire hunt

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,577
Update from previous thread: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sapphire-help-needed-asap-please.169778/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sapphire-help-needed-asap-please.169778/[/URL]

I sent for the atggems sapphire and it is a beautiful color, but it is just a little under 6.4 mm and I really think I need 6.5 mm after seeing this stone. It will be going in a halo and I don't want the stone to look skimpy in the setting. I might keep it to make a pendant or something, but I have to get my ring stone first. Good communication with Allen Brown.

http://www.atggems.com/Photos_Sapphire2.htm (one at the top is the one I ordered)

I contacted Richard Homer who is also very nice, and he sent me a list of stones in my size range. There are two sapphires at 6.5 and 6.6mm, and they range from $2900 to $3200 for heated. Naturally the cut is stellar (from pictures), but that price seems high to me for heated. And I am fine with heated, but I am not sure about paying $3000 for a sapphire just over a carat unless you tell me I am unrealistic about the price! Obviously Richard's work is exceptional, and I do not mean to downplay that at all. I have never seen a concave cut gem, though, so I don't know what they look like in person. But I do think rounds would benefit from that cut.

Honestly, I cannot afford a top quality, outstanding 3-4 ct. unheated sapphire (and it wouldn't fit this setting anyway!!!). But I do want an excellent one that is going to be a little over a carat at 6.5mm. I've looked at most of the links from the recommended seller list, and I am really out of options other than the Richard Homer stones, which are very special and very expensive! This setting is a fine one, though, and I need an excellent sapphire.

Oh, and Richard does have an aqua my size that would be gorgeous and much more affordable, but I really want a sapphire more (and then I want a pair to make matching earrings)!

This is the $3200 sapphire and the $2900 one is more of a cornflower blue (lighter than this one) and very beautiful.

http://www.webgraphicsengineering.com/Gemstones/detail.cfm?zNum=6156

I really need some advice from those who are knowledgeable about sapphires, please!!!!
 
Both Richard Homer sapphires:

6858BSapph.jpg

6156BSapph.jpg
 
1) Richard charges retail pricing and a large premium for his cutting
2) I don't like how he photographs everything on a dark background. How are you supposed to determine the true color when its standing out brightly because there's a dark background? Many people have indicated that his sapphires look darker in person.
3) I don't like concave cutting on medium dark stones, as are many of his sapphires. I think concave cutting is best for lighter toned stones, as it gives them a darker tone, JMO. If you were to buy a concave cut aqua for example, or a light toned concave cut sapphire, I think the cut would be more noticable and really do the stone justice. I prefer cabochon and faceted sapphires.

Well, that's my opinion, for what it's worth. A lot of people are huge fans of Richard Homer, but for me, color is paramount, and I rather pay for fine color than a specialty precision cut. That being said, there are other precision faceters that do a wonderful job, have more reasonable pricing, and can obtain beautiful stones. I think you have a healthy budget for something far nicer than that RH stone.
 
Thanks, TL! I pretty much know what I want, but I can't find it! The stone Pearlmans found was also heated around $3k, and it looked a little dark. It sort of is true that paying for premuim cutting on such a small stone may be a little unnecessary. I've been warned about NSC, but is there any point in seeing what they have? I really am out of options.
 
diamondseeker2006|1325646418|3094569 said:
Thanks, TL! I pretty much know what I want, but I can't find it! The stone Pearlmans found was also heated around $3k, and it looked a little dark. It sort of is true that paying for premuim cutting on such a small stone may be a little unnecessary. I've been warned about NSC, but is there any point in seeing what they have? I really am out of options.

Did you look at simplysapphires? They have 25% off until 1/20.
 
Yes, but I don't see a thing. One that was a second choice to the atggems stone is now sold. I did email the vendor, though. He is on a buying trip so maybe he can find me one!
 
VapidLapid|1325647225|3094583 said:

Thanks VL! I did see this one but did not know how to interpret the black areas in the picture! It is just so hard to determine from pictures!

The second one might be beautiful in person, but it didn't look great in the picture, either.

It is just a dilemma to have to send for multiple stones when you want to wait to get a refund on the one you currently have!
 
There is a halo around the stone, so unfortunately, I am limited to 6.5-6.6mm. That is the kind of price I am looking for, though!
 
i have seen other concave cut stones and did not like them. i saw a richard homer concave cut and understood the facsination. while you are paying for the name, you're also paying for high level craftsmanship....would i pay it? no, i'm not that in love with concave cut and i'm not super rich. if i had money to burn? i would only buy concave cut from him.

the tucson show is coming up soon. why not have a vendor/buyer/cutter shop for you there?
 
just throwing this out there to increase the options, but you could get a stone too large like the one TL just linked and have a little trimmed of the edges by someone good and not expensive like Jerry Neuman. Yes there are some chances of color alteration, but that can often be anticipated before the cut and compensated for in the recut or just sent back to original vendor even (discuss that before hand to make sure there is time for return). With a stone like the one TL linked there could even be marked improvement say in making the crown deeper, and so more sparkly.
 
Very good idea, MZ. I had really hoped to get this finished soon, but I can see that waiting may be necessary. You have intrigued me a little about the RH stones. I am far from rich, but I suppose I could get one of his because of the small size if they were spectacular. The only problem is, I plan to have matching earrings made and that could be a problem.
 
VapidLapid|1325648582|3094601 said:
just throwing this out there to increase the options, but you could get a stone too large like the one TL just linked and have a little trimmed of the edges by someone good and not expensive like Jerry Neuman. Yes there are some chances of color alteration, but that can often be anticipated before the cut and compensated for in the recut or just sent back to original vendor even (discuss that before hand to make sure there is time for return). With a stone like the one TL linked there could even be marked improvement say in making the crown deeper, and so more sparkly.

I thought about that as well. It has a very deep pavillion, so there is a lot of leeway there. Well, I'm not a lapidary, but I do know it's very difficult to get a particular stone to fit a setting, so patience is a virtue. I'm still on the lookout for a 9.5 x 9.5 cushion. LOL!
 
VapidLapid|1325648582|3094601 said:
just throwing this out there to increase the options, but you could get a stone too large like the one TL just linked and have a little trimmed of the edges by someone good and not expensive like Jerry Neuman. Yes there are some chances of color alteration, but that can often be anticipated before the cut and compensated for in the recut or just sent back to original vendor even (discuss that before hand to make sure there is time for return). With a stone like the one TL linked there could even be marked improvement say in making the crown deeper, and so more sparkly.

I was thinking about that, but some people warned me that some cutters wouldn't cut a customer's stone. I'd love to have Jeff White cut one, and I know there are other great cutters, also. I just don't trust myself to buy a stone that would be suitable to be recut. There's that element of risk that you are stuck with the end product whether you love it or not!
 
diamondseeker2006|1325648612|3094605 said:
Very good idea, MZ. I had really hoped to get this finished soon, but I can see that waiting may be necessary. You have intrigued me a little about the RH stones. I am far from rich, but I suppose I could get one of his because of the small size if they were spectacular. The only problem is, I plan to have matching earrings made and that could be a problem.

It might be more cost effective then to perhaps get the setting "opened" up a little to accomodate a slightly larger stone???
 
It can't be altered. It is a designer setting, antique style with a milgrain edge, tiny diamond halo. It obviously is designed for a 1 ct. diamond. I could get a lower color August Vintage Round if I increase the budget, but I really think a sapphire would be gorgeous in the setting!

Then I would have earrings made like these :love: :

http://mc2jewels.com/earrings/20197.html
 
i'd also consider the RH concave for a ring and get a set of not concave for the earrings....but then i'm not much for matching. it would be enough for me that the earrings are blue sapphires as well!

eta: i just now looked at the link to the earrings you'll be duplicating. i'm now more convinced that i'd not mind the earring sapphires not matching a concave center stone sapphire.
 
movie zombie|1325660697|3094703 said:
i'd also consider the RH concave for a ring and get a set of not concave for the earrings....but then i'm not much for matching. it would be enough for me that the earrings are blue sapphires as well!

eta: i just now looked at the link to the earrings you'll be duplicating. i'm now more convinced that i'd not mind the earring sapphires not matching a concave center stone sapphire.

Oh, good! I feel like the stones are going to be so small and not next to each other that it might not matter, either. I will probably look a little more due to the price, but it is good to know that he has two stones that would work if I need one.
 
Hi, DS,
I thought I'd chime in here to add a good word for Richard. I own two Richard Homer stones. One is a Portuguese-cut chartreuse chrysoberyl, and the other is a concave-cut, purple spinel (both are 6.5 mm stones). In my experience, concave cutting is more obvious in photos than it is in person -- at least in the 6.5 mm size. Larger stones will obviously show more of the facet patterning.

I do believe that concave cutting gives a darker stone more "zing." My spinel is a deep, true purple and the concave faceting gives the stone life. In low light, the stone glimmers and throws off flashes of red. I sourced my two Homer stones through Wink. Wink forwarded several questions I had about the stones to Richard, and I communicated with Richard via e-mail. I can't say enough good things about Richard; he is a gentleman and a very skilled craftsman. But I like precision-cut diamonds and I like precision-cut gemstones, so I am biased. I also don't mind paying a premium for a cutter's skill and reputation.

I sold my halo setting on consignment and am now looking to reset my chrysoberyl. I met with a local goldsmith who knows Richard personally. The goldsmith said told me that in his opinion, Richard is one of the top three lapidaries working today. And this goldsmith is an AGTA winner who works with a lot of top lapidaries. I think sometimes on PS the quest for a "deal" takes precedence over other factors. Sapphires are expensive, even more expensive now that Kate Middleton made them popular again for e-rings. It's worth paying extra for quality, because, in all honestly, even cra*p sapphires are commanding high prices these days. Just my .02 -- others may disagree.

I agree with the others who have suggested you consider waiting until after the Tucson show to see if Richard or one of the other cutters is able to source some new sapphire rough that will cut a nice 6.5 mm round. I know it's hard to wait, but in this case, I think you'll be happier with the end result.

ETA: I just took a peek at your other thread, and saw the photos of your setting. I agree -- that setting will be gorgeous with a blue sapphire in it! You will want to look for a lighter blue sapphire, I think, so it doesn't look too dark in the bezel, but that may save you some money, since lighter blues are a bit less expensive.
 
Lula|1325686523|3094786 said:
Hi, DS,
I think sometimes on PS the quest for a "deal" takes precedence over other factors. Sapphires are expensive, even more expensive now that Kate Middleton made them popular again for e-rings. It's worth paying extra for quality, because, in all honestly, even cra*p sapphires are commanding high prices these days. Just my .02 -- others may disagree.

I agree, and I do think that PS does tend to help people look out for a deal, especially when price is a large consideration to them. I also agree that even "crap" sapphires tend to be very expensive right now due to the Kate/Diana ering. Right now is one of the worst times to buy sapphires, and if you've noticed, its "sapphire mania" on this board right now.

Diamondseeker06,
Is there a reason you want a sapphire? I would also try to look for other stones. There are so many beautiful gems out there and it would help you to expand your search.
 
[quote="Lula|1325686523|3094786....... I think sometimes on PS the quest for a "deal" takes precedence over other factors. Sapphires are expensive, even more expensive now that Kate Middleton made them popular again for e-rings. It's worth paying extra for quality, because, in all honestly, even cra*p sapphires are commanding high prices these days. Just my .02 -- others may disagree. ....[/quote]


i so agree with this. when it comes to sapphires, yes, little sally, there is always a good deal to be had and something for every budget but there really is a difference between a world class stone at thousands per carat and a perfectly acceptable stone for $1k or less per carat.... too bad because i have champagne taste and a beer budget!
 
movie zombie|1325689625|3094824 said:
Lula|1325686523|3094786 said:
....... I think sometimes on PS the quest for a "deal" takes precedence over other factors. Sapphires are expensive, even more expensive now that Kate Middleton made them popular again for e-rings. It's worth paying extra for quality, because, in all honestly, even cra*p sapphires are commanding high prices these days. Just my .02 -- others may disagree. ....


i so agree with this. when it comes to sapphires, yes, little sally, there is always a good deal to be had and something for every budget but there really is a difference between a world class stone at thousands per carat and a perfectly acceptable stone for $1k or less per carat.... too bad because i have champagne taste and a beer budget!

I also think that some precision cut sapphires are thousands per carat not because of the color so much, but the following factors

1) Most Asian sapphires are recuts as the countries of origin (Ceylon for example) does not allow the export of rough, so you're paying for the original carat weight of the larger stone. I prefer African stones, such as Madagascar ones, as an alternative, because as far as I know, many are just as beautiful, if not more so, than Ceylon stones. I do believe rough is allowed out of Madagascar at this time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

2) Lapidaries can sometimes charge an enormous premium for their cutting, which is fine, as it is their artistry and work that they're performing, just like a painting on a blank canvas. This is perfectly fine, but just know that because you're paying a great deal for a precision cut gem, does not mean it's world class color. It may or may not be.
 
and know that not all cutters [even precision cutters] are created equal no matter the quality or source of the rough for that sapphire.

the difference between a high quality stone and one that is perfectly acceptable is apparent to the eye........ well, apparent to my eye and a lot of pricescopers. the average buyer? probably not so much.

nothing wrong with your preferences, TL.....the search for a deal for price point is well known. however, i've seen some high quality sapphires and those deal sapphires are just not equal.

again, its too bad 'cause i can see the difference but am not able to pay for that difference. and in all honesty, i'm not sure i'd pay it anyway. i'm way to practical.
 
movie zombie|1325691359|3094840 said:
and know that not all cutters [even precision cutters] are created equal no matter the quality or source of the rough for that sapphire.

the difference between a high quality stone and one that is perfectly acceptable is apparent to the eye........ well, apparent to my eye and a lot of pricescopers. the average buyer? probably not so much.

nothing wrong with your preferences, TL.....the search for a deal for price point is well known. however, i've seen some high quality sapphires and those deal sapphires are just not equal.

again, its too bad 'cause i can see the difference but am not able to pay for that difference. and in all honesty, i'm not sure i'd pay it anyway. i'm way to practical.

Yes, while I would love to own something the caliber of what Elizabeth Taylor would own, I just cannot. *sigh*

I think Diamondseeker has a set budget, so as always, I do try to help people like her find something acceptable, and I often overlook precision facetors that charge a high premium in those particular cases, as I don't think you can get the most for your money. Others may disagree, and that's fine. JMO. If in the end, she wants a RH sapphire, or a sapphire cut by any award winning lapidary, that's her perogative. I will say this, 90% of the stones I have returned, have been to precision facetors, as I felt I didn't get the best color gem for what I paid, and color is paramount to me, so perhaps I'm a bit biased due to my own negative experiences. I know for others, cutting is paramount. I actually bought an extremely well cut pink spinel, on par with precision facetors, for a great price, so if you look hard enough, it is possible to even get fine cutting for a deal. Well, you know how I am. ;))
 
TL|1325694337|3094882 said:
movie zombie|1325691359|3094840 said:
and know that not all cutters [even precision cutters] are created equal no matter the quality or source of the rough for that sapphire.

the difference between a high quality stone and one that is perfectly acceptable is apparent to the eye........ well, apparent to my eye and a lot of pricescopers. the average buyer? probably not so much.

nothing wrong with your preferences, TL.....the search for a deal for price point is well known. however, i've seen some high quality sapphires and those deal sapphires are just not equal.

again, its too bad 'cause i can see the difference but am not able to pay for that difference. and in all honesty, i'm not sure i'd pay it anyway. i'm way to practical.

Yes, while I would love to own something the caliber of what Elizabeth Taylor would own, I just cannot. *sigh*

I think Diamondseeker has a set budget, so as always, I do try to help people like her find something acceptable, and I often overlook precision facetors that charge a high premium in those particular cases, as I don't think you can get the most for your money. Others may disagree, and that's fine. JMO. If in the end, she wants a RH sapphire, or a sapphire cut by any award winning lapidary, that's her perogative. I will say this, 90% of the stones I have returned, have been to precision facetors, as I felt I didn't get the best color gem for what I paid, and color is paramount to me, so perhaps I'm a bit biased due to my own negative experiences. I know for others, cutting is paramount. I actually bought an extremely well cut pink spinel, on par with precision facetors, for a great price, so if you look hard enough, it is possible to even get fine cutting for a deal. Well, you know how I am. ;))

And you are very good at maximizing price/value, TL! An enviable skill. But you make a good point -- unless we have a Liz-Taylor-size budget, we've got to compromise. We've all got different priorities. For me, I prioritize cut. The wonkiness of the faceting on many native-cut stones drives me batty. I like and appreciate the even, meticulous faceting on precision-cut gems. It's part of their appeal. So my priorities are color and precision faceting. So this means I own fewer stones and smaller stones. I also like the fact that precision-cut stones are easier, and, in many cases, less expensive to set than are native cut stones which may require custom settings. Knowing who cut my gemstones is important to me, too. I like the fact that my jewelry dollars go to support the work of an artisan. But artisan cutting does come at a premium, and I completely understand why others may not want to pay the extra for precision cutting. I do know, from reading this forum, that precision cutting alone does not guarantee that the color will be topnotch. And I would be reluctant to recut a native-cut stone with beautiful color for fear of losing the color. It's complicated. That's why buying colored gems is so much more difficult than buying diamonds!
 
The sapphires both look pretty at first glance, but expensive. That said, I understand RH does charge quite a bit of premium for his cutting. I haven't seen concave cutting in a stone of around 6 mm or so, so I don't know how apparent it will look IRL. While I own one of his concave cut stones and several other traditional faceted stone from him, my preference clearly lies with flat faceting so I could well be biased in my opinion. :bigsmile: I think concave faceting really shows up better in lighter toned stones and larger sizes. Have you seen any concave cutting in person? It's a deeply personal choice where I've noticed people tend to be either strongly opinioned for or against it.
 
again Im just throwing this out there as a possibility to open up options for you.
6.6 mm round cobalt spinel, two great tastes that taste great together!

http://www.djraregems.com/finegems.html

spinelcobalt.png
 
Oh, lots of good thoughts today! Thank you all!

Lula...good to know you have RH stones in the exact size I need...maybe you can just send me one! :lol: Seriously, it is good to know you love the faceting! And I agree that it is worth getting the quality that will be satisfying as opposed to settling for less than what you really want. Done that in the past and hope not to repeat it! I am not sure I posted my setting. Are you referring to the Pearlman's pictures? That was just a stock setting that they used to show me that sapphire. Mine has a halo but it is prong-set. Very good point about not getting a stone too dark to set in a halo, though!

TL...Sapphire is my favorite gemstone because it is my birthstone, blue is my favorite color, and I like the durability! I'd love to have other colors, too, but I do favor blue for this ring because the setting is special and I probably won't have another setting this nice again. RH does have a tempting aqua that I think would be gorgeous. I just worry about it holding up as a future heirloom.

MZ...oh, that makes two of us: "champagne taste with a beer budget". It is a curse I have had to live with all my life!!!

TL...I also do not care about country of origin, thankfully! That is one thing I do not care to pay for. I do prefer precision cutting when I can find it. I really like symmetry and wonky stones would drive me nuts.

Chrono...no, I have no seen concave faceting. I generally like all things traditional, so it is very possible that I'd prefer flat faceting.


What I know for sure is that I cannot settle for a mediocre sapphire. I want a great color and cut and very eyeclean or I don't want one at all. So I just mainly need to locate a great stone that is not overpriced as far as today's market is concerned.
 
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP

Featured Topics

Top