Vent, and advice needed

[alexah]

I just want to sent Big HUGS to mayerling.

I really feel for you and what you're going through.

Until we moved recently, I'd lived with shared walls/ceilings since I went to college (dorms, then Apts living in a big city). Over 20 years.

The Marpac white noise machines are great. We also play a CD of rolling waves. The white noise machine is nice but it's monotonous. The waves crash (so it's soft then loud) so it takes the sting off neighbors' sudden loud bangs and thumps. Played together they really helped (once you get used to them - now just hearing the waves makes us sleepy and we can't sleep without them).

Hopefully the five weeks passes quickly and the next place you move to is MUCH better.

 

[amc80]

We have to deal with this sort of thing a lot because DH is often of graveyard shift. Thanks to the military, however, he's learned to sleep through almost anything.

I don't think it's wrong to ask a question. And I don't think the question you asked was rude. I do think there was obviously a misunderstand between what the cleaning lady thought you were asking and what you were asking, and I think a note to the owners was appropriate. The worst they can say is screw you and you are no worse off than you are now.

 

[mayerling]

We have to deal with this sort of thing a lot because DH is often of graveyard shift. Thanks to the military, however, he's learned to sleep through almost anything.

I don't think it's wrong to ask a question. And I don't think the question you asked was rude. I do think there was obviously a misunderstand between what the cleaning lady thought you were asking and what you were asking, and I think a note to the owners was appropriate. The worst they can say is screw you and you are no worse off than you are now.

This made me smile. Thanks, amc!

 

[LaraOnline]

I wouldn't say anything to the neighbors about this. The cleaning woman was doing her job for them, and I don't see that she was doing anything inappropriate.

I agree, you can hardly ask the cleaner to just leave early with her job undone, she will lose her job.
If you have a problem with the neighbours, those problems should be addressed with the neighbours.

My grandmother had a somewhat similar problem with her lovely flat.
The one above was sold, and the new people ripped out all the carpet and replaced it with hard wood.
Then they got all their young adult children in to live with them!
*noise central*

 

[aljdewey]

While it may not have been your intention to make the cleaning woman feel confronted, her reaction as you described it suggests she did feel confronted. It sounds like she also didn't speak very good English, and I'm guessing she felt like you were going to complain about her to your neighbors, potentially jeopardizing her job.

I don't blame her for getting upset, especially since you harassed her with doorbell wringing and knocking even after she tried to end the interaction. You asked her for estimate; she told you noon. When she wasn't done at 12:40, you went up to ask her again. I'd feel harassed in her position, because she doesn't really owe you an answer. Then you asked her for a revised finish time and then corrected her because it was already past noon. If I'd been the housekeeper and you'd done that to me, my answer would have been "I'll be finished when I'm done" because of the way you approached it.

It sounds like your irritation with the neighbors (who are the ones moving stuff around at 5 a.m., not the mid-day housekeeper) spilled out onto the housekeeper. If I were the neighbor, I'd be seriously pissed that you decided to bother my housekeeper (who comes just once a week and during normal daylight hours) instead of coming to me.

I feel very badly that you got something that you didn't bargain for, but on the flip side, it's not the neighbors' fault that the building owner decided to rent out the apartment, so no, I don't think they are obligated to reorder their life patterns to suit a short-term rental. In most shared-dwelling situations, there are normal hours when noise (even loud noise) is permitted - in many cities/towns, that's 8-8 or 9-9. They could actually play the drums during your son's appointed naptime if they wanted to.

I think most people would be willing to extend courtesies if you ask them courteously because you are asking for someone else's cooperation. Going to the housekeeper wasn't the best way to handle it, and waiting until you're already well irritated probably didn't help.

Five weeks is a long time trying to make a life situation work out; to keep your sanity, you may want to see if there is a quiet park nearby or some other quiet spot you could escape to for an hour or two if need be for your son's nap. This won't resolve the early a.m. issue, but it may at least help your son recoup some sleep.

If the neighbor does approach you to discuss your note, I'd be as nice as you can and avoid trying to justify your actions; that's a recipe for escalation instead of diffusion. I'd instead just say that in an effort to meet your son's immediate need for a nap, you didn't really think through the best way to handle it and can we start again?

 

[mayerling]

I wouldn't say anything to the neighbors about this. The cleaning woman was doing her job for them, and I don't see that she was doing anything inappropriate.

I agree, you can hardly ask the cleaner to just leave early with her job undone, she will lose her job.
If you have a problem with the neighbours, those problems should be addressed with the neighbours.

My grandmother had a somewhat similar problem with her lovely flat.
The one above was sold, and the new people ripped out all the carpet and replaced it with hard wood.
Then they got all their young adult children in to live with them!
*noise central*

OK, I'm beginning to feel that I'm not being understood. I didn't ask her to leave. I didn't ask her to stop. I didn't ask her to do anything except to tell me what time she gets off as I'm willing to wait for her to finish before putting my son down. Maybe my mistake was assuming that she gets off work at a certain time as opposed to different times according to what needs to get done.

 

[mayerling]

While it may not have been your intention to make the cleaning woman feel confronted, her reaction as you described it suggests she did feel confronted. It sounds like she also didn't speak very good English, and I'm guessing she felt like you were going to complain about her to your neighbors, potentially jeopardizing her job.

I don't blame her for getting upset, especially since you harassed her with doorbell wringing and knocking even after she tried to end the interaction. You asked her for estimate; she told you noon. When she wasn't done at 12:40, you went up to ask her again. I'd feel harassed in her position, because she doesn't really owe you an answer. Then you asked her for a revised finish time and then corrected her because it was already past noon. If I'd been the housekeeper and you'd done that to me, my answer would have been "I'll be finished when I'm done" because of the way you approached it.

It sounds like your irritation with the neighbors (who are the ones moving stuff around at 5 a.m., not the mid-day housekeeper) spilled out onto the housekeeper. If I were the neighbor, I'd be seriously pissed that you decided to bother my housekeeper (who comes just once a week and during normal daylight hours) instead of coming to me.

I feel very badly that you got something that you didn't bargain for, but on the flip side, it's not the neighbors' fault that the building owner decided to rent out the apartment, so no, I don't think they are obligated to reorder their life patterns to suit a short-term rental. In most shared-dwelling situations, there are normal hours when noise (even loud noise) is permitted - in many cities/towns, that's 8-8 or 9-9. They could actually play the drums during your son's appointed naptime if they wanted to.

I think most people would be willing to extend courtesies if you ask them courteously because you are asking for someone else's cooperation. Going to the housekeeper wasn't the best way to handle it, and waiting until you're already well irritated probably didn't help.

Five weeks is a long time trying to make a life situation work out; to keep your sanity, you may want to see if there is a quiet park nearby or some other quiet spot you could escape to for an hour or two if need be for your son's nap. This won't resolve the early a.m. issue, but it may at least help your son recoup some sleep.

If the neighbor does approach you to discuss your note, I'd be as nice as you can and avoid trying to justify your actions; that's a recipe for escalation instead of diffusion. I'd instead just say that in an effort to meet your son's immediate need for a nap, you didn't really think through the best way to handle it and can we start again?

Again, I'm feeling like I'm not making myself understood.
As I said in my original post, I tried to converse in Spanish but she cut me off in that instance as well. I was on my best behaviour. I calmly said hello (son in my arms and all) and asked when she would be finished; no irritation whatsoever. The irritation came when she slammed the door to my face before I'd even had a chance to ask my question. It became severe irritation the second time she slammed the door to my face before I could utter my question.

Precisely because people can make noise in the daytime is why I'm willing to work around their schedules (their behaviour at night is another story).

I'm really surprised by people's responses. I really get a feeling of I can do whatever I want because I'm in my house even though it might have an effect on someone else. It's really surprising to me. Years ago during a brief stint at a top-floor flat in the UK I had a downstairs neighbour who smoked on her balcony so that smoke came into my flat when the windows were open. I went over, asked if she was a smoker (mind you, she didn't slam the door to my face for asking a simple question and this is the UK where people have a reputation of being cold and rigid), she said yes, and I said that it bothers me and would it be possible for her to give me a missed call every time she smoked so I could close my windows. She complied with my request and we had an excellent neighbourly relationship. There was no reaction of the type "I can do what I want in my house", "I don't want to have to call you every time I need a cigarette", etc.

 

[LaraOnline]

I would just try and start again with the neighbour, being as light as possible about it.
While your interaction with the cleaner might have been upsetting for, it shouldn't have any bearing on your relationship with the neighbour going forward.

 

[packrat]

I am a light sleeper. I get it, totally. JD's about sick of me screeching "I can hear you BREATHING!". I used to take the stem out of my watch at night so there was no ticking sound. Not wanting my kids to have to learn to deal w/trying to function on minimal sleep, I'd just about bring a marching band in thru the house nightly. I'd vacuum (in their room even), put clothes away, whatever. Trapper was harder, but now both of them, there's no waking them up. Seriously-JD was locked out of the house one night and got the screen up behind the headboard, and could reach in far enough to lift Trapper by the arm, and he just kept flopping. Lift him up, jostle him, he'd fall limp down on the bed. repeat. repeat. Took him forever to get him to wake up enough to go open the door. I was in the other room sleeping w/a big box fan, didn't hear my phone, didn't hear the doorbell, didn't hear him yelling from the bedroom window.

My point is, the more often you put yourself in a situation, your body will adapt. Little kids are waaaay more adaptable than a grown adult that's had 30+ years to get into a routine, but even we manage. I can fall asleep in front of the tv now, even have lights on. In different beds on vacations, hotels. Shoot, I can fall asleep during nap time at school w/the music going and kids crying. When JD worked 2nd shift, I used to wake up every night when he came to bed. Then I got used to it and slept thru it. Everyone has to adapt. Unless it's birds or crickets or snoring. I've not managed to adapt to those yet.

It sucks, I know, when the kids can't sleep. Or they're juuuust starting to fall asleep and something gets dropped or whatever. I've had more than enough of that w/my own kids so I understand. It's two months. It won't make or break you or your child. There'll be plenty of times when your husband is going to walk in and yell something or stomp his feet or whatever, and you'll just have put the kid down and you'll be like ARGH lookit what you DIIIIIIID! There's not a child on the face of the planet since the dawn of time who hasn't ever been woken up and bellered, or had a hard time falling asleep. We lived out in the country with two neighbors down the road 1/8 mile. Tractors in the ass crack of dawn OMG. There's noise everywhere. I like quiet, so lord knows what I'm doing w/two kids and a husband who is quite possibly the LOUDEST BREATHER ever born.

Get a big box fan. Get some music going. If you change the nap schedule now, you may end up having to work at changing it again in a couple months when you move again. Get stuff to muffle the sounds from above, like a fan. Not a little wussy fan either, a big box fan, turn it on #3, face it away so it's not blowing directly on him.

 

[zoebartlett]

I wouldn't say anything to the neighbors about this. The cleaning woman was doing her job for them, and I don't see that she was doing anything inappropriate.

I agree, you can hardly ask the cleaner to just leave early with her job undone, she will lose her job.
If you have a problem with the neighbours, those problems should be addressed with the neighbours.

My grandmother had a somewhat similar problem with her lovely flat.
The one above was sold, and the new people ripped out all the carpet and replaced it with hard wood.
Then they got all their young adult children in to live with them!
*noise central*

OK, I'm beginning to feel that I'm not being understood. I didn't ask her to leave. I didn't ask her to stop. I didn't ask her to do anything except to tell me what time she gets off as I'm willing to wait for her to finish before putting my son down. Maybe my mistake was assuming that she gets off work at a certain time as opposed to different times according to what needs to get done.

I think we understand you and the situation, Mayerling, we just would have handled it differently.

Alj's answer, "I'll be finished when I'm done" is what I probably would have said if I was the housekeeper. As Alj mentioned, I don't think you intended to offend the cleaning woman (and there's a language barrier that didn't help). Clearly though, she didn't like that she was interrupted a few times. I get it, you weren't asking the woman to stop what she was doing, you were asking for an estimate as to when she'd be finished. I would think that would be hard to give, however, and your question seems to imply that she should have hurried up.

 

[Polished]

Don't forget the cleaner isn't offay with the whole of the noise situation you are experiencing. We get it that you are frazzled with the noise for your son's sake because we know of all the instances where the noise is happening. I'm not saying you tell the cleaner about the whole of your problem but she might have been more receptive to giving you times if she had known of the extent of the noise that affects your son's sleeping times.

 

[momhappy]

I wouldn't say anything to the neighbors about this. The cleaning woman was doing her job for them, and I don't see that she was doing anything inappropriate.

I agree, you can hardly ask the cleaner to just leave early with her job undone, she will lose her job.
If you have a problem with the neighbours, those problems should be addressed with the neighbours.

My grandmother had a somewhat similar problem with her lovely flat.
The one above was sold, and the new people ripped out all the carpet and replaced it with hard wood.
Then they got all their young adult children in to live with them!
*noise central*

OK, I'm beginning to feel that I'm not being understood. I didn't ask her to leave. I didn't ask her to stop. I didn't ask her to do anything except to tell me what time she gets off as I'm willing to wait for her to finish before putting my son down. Maybe my mistake was assuming that she gets off work at a certain time as opposed to different times according to what needs to get done.

I think we understand you and the situation, Mayerling, we just would have handled it differently.

Alj's answer, "I'll be finished when I'm done" is what I probably would have said if I was the housekeeper. As Alj mentioned, I don't think you intended to offend the cleaning woman (and there's a language barrier that didn't help). Clearly though, she didn't like that she was interrupted a few times. I get it, you weren't asking the woman to stop what she was doing, you were asking for an estimate as to when she'd be finished. I would think that would be hard to give, however, and your question seems to imply that she should have hurried up.

Yes, I agree that most of us seem to understand the situation and we have replied with our thoughts accordingly. We get that you didn't ask her to finish, leave, etc., but you approached her in a way that likely conveyed your displeasure with the entire situation (in essence, taking out your frustration on the wrong person). You questioned her when you got back from the park (which was fine), but then carried your son upstairs to ask her again when she'd be finished (which implies that you'd like her to finish/leave). You also mentioned that you were holding your son the whole time, had to explain yourself several times, and that you rang the bell/knocked on the door several times - all of those things indicate that you were likely irritated and had caused a confrontation with someone who was just trying to do their job. You can justify it any way you want to, but the bottom line is that some of us wouldn't have handled it the way you did. You asked for advice and now you don't seem to like the responses that you're getting. Yes, we feel bad that you have to deal with neighbor noises, but your actions weren't appropriate IMO. Hopefully, you will have the ability to adapt in some ways and manage the rest of your stay there.

 

[mayerling]

Momhappy, why do you think I had my son with me when I went upstairs?

You're right. I don't like the responses. In my original post I asked for advice on whether I should explain myself to the neighbours, not opinions on whether I was right to go up there. In any event, thank you all for taking the time to discuss this with me. You've helped me decide how to handle this in the future.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Momhappy, why do you think I had my son with me when I went upstairs?

You're right. I don't like the responses. In my original post I asked for advice on whether I should explain myself to the neighbours, not opinions on whether I was right to go up there. In any event, thank you all for taking the time to discuss this with me. You've helped me decide how to handle this in the future.

Your original post said you had your son in your arms the whole time. I interpreted that to mean your son was with you each time you went up?

I get what you're saying. If I were you, I would probably approach your neighbors and just say that you were sorry that the situation was misinterpreted and got out of hand. Even though you only have 5 more weeks there, I wouldn't want to live with the tension between neighbors.

 

[aljdewey]

Again, I'm feeling like I'm not making myself understood.

Speaking for myself only, I understood you perfectly well. You said you didn't go up to ask her to stop making noise, right? You were only asking when she'd be done, right? You asked very calmly, right? My lack of agreement with your point of view isn't due to a lack of understanding; I do understand and empathize with your situation even as I disagree with how it was handled.

I think it was perfectly fine to ask when you returned from the park what time she gets off work - no problem there. It's going up to ask her again when wasn't finished considerably past 12 that I feel was confrontational, no matter how nicely you did it. If you didn't want to put your son down until she was done, that could have been accomplished by just waiting until you saw her leave.

When you asked again, she said 12, and you pointed out it was already 12:40. The implied message is "I asked you when you'd be done, you said 12, and it's past 12 - ???" That may not be what you meant, but it's seems pretty clear that's how she took it. When she asked you why, you said "he needs to sleep", which is also saying "you're keeping my son up" and also implies that his need to sleep is more important than her need to complete her work (which it is to you, but not to her). Whether or not you mean it to be, it feels accusatory. This is probably why she slammed the door in your face the firs time.

Then you banged on the door as though she owed you an answer - total escalation. Once she slammed the door, that should have been the end.

I'm really surprised by people's responses. I really get a feeling of I can do whatever I want because I'm in my house even though it might have an effect on someone else.

I guess I'd say the same; I'm surprised by your responses because they give me the feeling that people in communal living situations shouldn't expect to engage in daily life activities during society's standard wakeful hours without polling everyone within earshot to get their permission first. To me, that's equally unreasonable.

There are 2 separate issues here - one is the noise made during society's standard wakeful hours by the housekeeper, and the other is the noise made by the neighbors at 5 a.m. Knowingly or unknowingly, you rented a spot in what turns out to be a communal living situation, and you should expect to tolerate hearing others conduct their normal lives--which includes middle-of-day housecleaning and possibly moving furniture. Though not required, I think you'd find that most people in communal living situations do want to be good neighbors and are quite receptive to reasonably accommodating others' needs providing the requests are made politely and brought to them directly instead of putting hired contractors on the spot.

I totally agree with your irritation at the 5 a.m. noises, and I'd imagine community noise ordinances would support you. What puzzles me is that you chose to speak up to the housekeeper (wrong person) about something that should be expected and acceptable, but you haven't said a word your neighbors (right people) about their crack-of-dawn disturbances, which most would agree shouldn't be ok. Why not? Perhaps you just expect them to know better (and understably so), but it's also possible their early-morning activity isn't an issue to their year-round neighbors and they don't know it's troublesome for you.

 

[mayerling]

Your original post said you had your son in your arms the whole time. I interpreted that to mean your son was with you each time you went up?

See? I knew I wasn't being understood. I only went up that ONE time. I walked up tried to talk to her, she closed the door on me, I kept saying "excuse me" and knocking on the door, several minutes later she came back, and closed the door on me again. Eventually, I gave up and left.

The reason I took my son with me is because he's 23 months old and obviously I'm not going to leave him alone in the house while I'm up there. I get the impression from people that they think I took him up to make a point and to "blackmail" her into stopping. The reason I mentioned having my son in my arms the whole time is because while it EXTREMELY rule to close the door on someone who is trying to talk to you - even making the effort to talk to you in your own language, it is EXCEPTIONALLY rude to leave someone waiting for you for several minutes while they're holding their child - twice.

 

[aljdewey]

Your original post said you had your son in your arms the whole time. I interpreted that to mean your son was with you each time you went up?

See? I knew I wasn't being understood. I only went up that ONE time. I walked up tried to talk to her, she closed the door on me, I kept saying "excuse me" and knocking on the door, several minutes later she came back, and closed the door on me again. Eventually, I gave up and left.

The reason I took my son with me is because he's 23 months old and obviously I'm not going to leave him alone in the house while I'm up there. I get the impression from people that they think I took him up to make a point and to "blackmail" her into stopping. The reason I mentioned having my son in my arms the whole time is because while it EXTREMELY rule to close the door on someone who is trying to talk to you - even making the effort to talk to you in your own language, it is EXCEPTIONALLY rude to leave someone waiting for you for several minutes while they're holding their child - twice.

M, I didn't misunderstand. You asked upon your return from the park when she'd be done. She said 12. When she was still obviously working beyond 12, you approached her again (this time by going upstairs). That's where I think it was out of line.

I fully understand having your son in your arms - I wouldn't leave a toddler unattended either, and I don't think you meant to blackmail her into stopping. You merely hoped to get a revised timeline, but it's clear that's not how the housekeeper took it, especially when you pointed out that it was past the time she told you she'd be finished.

She obviously felt confronted, which is why she closed the door. She didn't leave you waiting; she didn't ask you to wait at all - she wanted the conversation over, hence the closed door. You chose to stay and demand a response by repeatedly knocking/bell ringing (which I'm sure felt like harassment/bullying) instead of accepting her refusal to further discuss it by having closed the door. It sounds like there was plenty of rude on both sides of the equation. She doesn't owe you a thing. She doesn't owe you an answer as to when she'll be finished, and she doesn't owe it to you to engage in conversation if she doesn't wish to.

I'm truly sorry you feel as though you're getting advice outside the scope of what you asked for. I think people were merely trying to explain why they felt you shouldn't approach the neighbor - which is to say, they feel it was already handled badly and writing the note to the neighbor might make it worse.

 

[MissStepcut]

As a parent of a toddler, sounds like an incredibly trying situation. Good thing you'll be out of there soon. Hope your next home is more sound proofed. I've lived in probably 10 different apartments and never had to deal with a unit that blocked sounds from neighbors so poorly.

 

[NovemberBride]

When you live in a communal living situation you have to deal with normal household noise from neighbors, and I would include cleaning house and moving suitcases to be normal household noise to be acceptable at anytime day or night. I have been on the other side of your situation and I was extremely annoyed by my neighbor's actions. For a time my husband and I rented a second floor apartment. At the time, we were both working very demanding full time jobs and I was also studying for the bar exam. Our downstairs neighbor was very sensitive to noise and would consistently complain to the property manager about the noise and once she even had her parents come knock on our door in a very similar situation to what you are describing. Let me be clear, we were not throwing parties, playing loud music or yelling. We were just going about our daily lives, but our schedules at the time necessitated that we do things like run the dishwasher and washing machine late at night or early in the morning (as it was the only time when we were home). Her parents came over one night at 8:30 pm to complain about the noise that was caused by me walking up my steps and then running my food processor to make dinner. I imagine the housekeeper in your situation was as annoyed to be interrupted from doing her job as I was to come home from a long day at work and to have my dinner interrupted by someone complaining about normal household activities. I am sorry your son could not sleep, I have young children and I know how important sleep is, but the fact that you stood there and continued to bang on the door and ring the doorbell after she had already given you an answer you weren't even entitled to is what I find to be rude.

 

[monarch64]

Mayerling, you know I have a daughter about one month older than your son. While we haven't had to deal with international travel for any extended length of time, I understand the importance of naps and sleep for everyone's sanity. You sound light on sleep and low on patience. Misunderstandings or not, I think you're going to have to chalk this up to one of those experiences in life that is just not an ideal situation and deal with it as best you can. Do you have the option to move and can you find out whether there is an enforceable noise ordinance? You've already exhausted your efforts as far as asking people directly. Five weeks seems like a really long time when you're not able to sleep normally, I understand. I wish your experience here in the states was better.

I would like to add one more thing, and you can interpret it however you wish. Before I had a child, I never thought about how my actions would affect families/children i.e. noise, etc. Now that I have a child, I sometimes wish everyone would understand that I have a baby who is trying to sleep and that if she doesn't our entire routine is upset, unbalanced, and we're all unhappy. Unfortunately, the UPS guy is still going to ring the doorbell mid-nap which makes the dog bark which wakes the baby...you get what I'm saying. No one else cares about our sleep routine and why should they? We are all just trying to go about our business and while there is not usually an intention to bother others, it happens anyway.

I hope you find a resolution soon.

 

[VRBeauty]

Just one additional thought - now that you know the housekeeper's schedule, you have the advantage of being able to plan around it... which might help prevent this scenario from being a weekly issue.

 

[Sparklelu]

As a long time apartment dweller in NYC , I know and have experienced all kinds of neighbors. We had the screamers, the dish bangers, the heavy duty ethnic cooking smells wafting into our apt at 5am, because they ran a restaurant and did some of the cooking in the apt.
A neighbor and her boyfriend had loud screaming sex in the bathroom all the time. The bathroom that shared a wall with my living room!
We had a crazy neighbor who thought my DH was spying on him and he crazy glued our door locks 16 times!!
We had crying babies and loud music of all kinds at random hours of the day.
In NYC there is an ordinance and after 10pm you can complain. I don't remember the start time.
The apt complex required all tenants to have carpets on all floors. Even so we swore there was a dance studio above us at one point.

We raised 2 children in these same apartments.

I never once considered going to a neighbor in the middle of the day to ask them to stop making noise/or ask when they would be done.
I had several apologize if they had been loud at night after a party, but never during the day.
One neighbor did warn me her bathroom was being redone so it would be noisy, but, I really never would have expected that. It was nice.
It seemed to me from your post, you are very unhappy with the rental and are pretty unfamiliar with the experience of close neighbors. The early morning, middle of the night noises would annoy me too, and you might want to google the local ordinance. However I'm not sure there is one against vacuuming at noon.

 

[MissStepcut]

Gosh, it just occurred to me, maybe Spanish isn't her first language. I don't think she needed any further excuse to not want to continue to engage in this conversation, but that might be another reason she kept repeating herself.

 

[mayerling]

As a long time apartment dweller in NYC , I know and have experienced all kinds of neighbors. We had the screamers, the dish bangers, the heavy duty ethnic cooking smells wafting into our apt at 5am, because they ran a restaurant and did some of the cooking in the apt.
A neighbor and her boyfriend had loud screaming sex in the bathroom all the time. The bathroom that shared a wall with my living room!
We had a crazy neighbor who thought my DH was spying on him and he crazy glued our door locks 16 times!!
We had crying babies and loud music of all kinds at random hours of the day.
In NYC there is an ordinance and after 10pm you can complain. I don't remember the start time.
The apt complex required all tenants to have carpets on all floors. Even so we swore there was a dance studio above us at one point.

We raised 2 children in these same apartments.

I never once considered going to a neighbor in the middle of the day to ask them to stop making noise/or ask when they would be done.
I had several apologize if they had been loud at night after a party, but never during the day.
One neighbor did warn me her bathroom was being redone so it would be noisy, but, I really never would have expected that. It was nice.
It seemed to me from your post, you are very unhappy with the rental and are pretty unfamiliar with the experience of close neighbors. The early morning, middle of the night noises would annoy me too, and you might want to google the local ordinance. However I'm not sure there is one against vacuuming at noon.

No. I lived in a UK terraced house (attached on both sides) for years. I never had to deal with this - then again, in the UK houses are made of bricks not wood.

 

[Circe]

As a long time apartment dweller in NYC , I know and have experienced all kinds of neighbors. We had the screamers, the dish bangers, the heavy duty ethnic cooking smells wafting into our apt at 5am, because they ran a restaurant and did some of the cooking in the apt.
A neighbor and her boyfriend had loud screaming sex in the bathroom all the time. The bathroom that shared a wall with my living room!
We had a crazy neighbor who thought my DH was spying on him and he crazy glued our door locks 16 times!!
We had crying babies and loud music of all kinds at random hours of the day.
In NYC there is an ordinance and after 10pm you can complain. I don't remember the start time.
The apt complex required all tenants to have carpets on all floors. Even so we swore there was a dance studio above us at one point.

We raised 2 children in these same apartments.

I never once considered going to a neighbor in the middle of the day to ask them to stop making noise/or ask when they would be done.
I had several apologize if they had been loud at night after a party, but never during the day.
One neighbor did warn me her bathroom was being redone so it would be noisy, but, I really never would have expected that. It was nice.
It seemed to me from your post, you are very unhappy with the rental and are pretty unfamiliar with the experience of close neighbors. The early morning, middle of the night noises would annoy me too, and you might want to google the local ordinance. However I'm not sure there is one against vacuuming at noon.

+1

SL, I think we must have been neighbors (sorry about the bathroom sharing a wall!) (I keed) - this is very much what my experience has been. There have been times when I have been ready to murder the family next door for shouting loudly right in front of our door as they wait for the elevator, right in time to wake my son ... but I don't think it would ever cross my mind to police somebody's actions in their private space, or even their rude-but-reasonable actions, like forgetting their "indoor" voices, in a shared public area.

I don't know if it's an American vs. British thing, or specifically a New York thing: space here is so limited that eventually it all fades to white noise, background sounds. I grew up under an active flight path ... compared to that, even the annoying neighbor who liked to spend a pleasant evening on the regular enjoying the soothing sounds of Insane Clown Posse dialed up to 11 is as nothing.

 

[CJ2008]

Mayerling - I think this is one of those situations where there's a clear and different viewpoint no matter how you explain it - which is OK! But I think you need to stop explaining yourself, only because you're going to drive yourself crazy. There's just obviously a difference in opinion.

That said, if upon reflection, there's even a grain of "truth" for you in what anyone has said, use that knwoledge to benefit you.

In other words, do whatever you need to do to reduce any possible tension, and increase your chances of having a good dialogue with the neighbor, if they do end up coming down and asking you about the note. So for example, I do think that apologizing to the neighbor for "bothering" their housekeeper might be a good place to start EVEN IF you don't really have to because it will help diffuse any annoyance or irritation they may be feeling (if indeed they are feeling that way - it's also entirely possible that for the first time, they realize maybe they've been more noisy than usual and actually feel bad). It really is about saying whatever you need to increase the chances that it will be a plesant and calm conversation and hopefully make the next 5 weeks as pleasant for you as possible.

And if that doesn't work, and the noise continues, just take a deep breath and find any alternatives you can. Again, just so you don't drive yourself crazy.

I really do hope that the neighbors end up being really nice and work with you in some way over the next 5 weeks. I hope there are little things they can do/are willing to do that won't disturb their routine too much but would help you.

 

[momhappy]

Momhappy, why do you think I had my son with me when I went upstairs?

You're right. I don't like the responses. In my original post I asked for advice on whether I should explain myself to the neighbours, not opinions on whether I was right to go up there. In any event, thank you all for taking the time to discuss this with me. You've helped me decide how to handle this in the future.

I don't understand why you're asking me about carrying your son? Obviously, you'd be carrying him with you if you were home alone with him (as opposed to the alternative of leaving him alone). What I meant was that you were standing there, holding your toddler, which probably only added to your frustrations.
I'm sorry that you didn't care for the advice here. I do hope that you can resolve the situation or at least peacefully coexist with the neighbors until your move

 

[mayerling]

CJ, it is a difference of opinion. I was raised to act in ways that don't encroach on others, regardless of whether it's day or night, at home or out.

I started this thread to ask whether I should explain to my neighbours what happened, not to ask for people's opinions on whether my actions were correct or not. CJ suggested the note, I wrote it, taped it to their door, I assume they read it as it's no longer there and that's that.

I will step back from this thread, as all it's doing is reinforcing some negative perceptions I have about certain prevailing mentalities in this country. For the sake self-preservation, as I still have 5 weeks to go and might have to be back here at some point, I'd better go now.

 

[CJ2008]

Totally understand wanting to step back from the thread - but I really do hope you do update us of any interaction with the neighbor, good or bad. I know I'll be curious, and wondering if you ever got to speak to them, and how it went.

If not, though, I understand that too.

Just know I'll be sending you good conversation vibes for if/when you talk to them!

 

[kenny]

Quote:OK, I'm beginning to feel that I'm not being understood.
Again, I'm feeling like I'm not making myself understood.

Since so many people have posted a similar reaction, and it conflicts with your perspective, perhaps it is you who are not understanding.

People are just not how you expect them to be.
People will never be like you.
Sorry.
This is a disappointing and surprising lesson we all have to confront at some point(s) in life.
Mommy and Daddy taught us how to be, but others had different Mommys and Daddys.

Buildings that are not brick do not have the same acoustic isolation as brick.
When you saw the your apartment unit was below another unit you still chose moved into it.

There are noise issues that do justify resolution but the ones you've listed are just normal apartment life.
Even a drumset in the unit above your is probably legal at reasonable hours.
Such is city, and especially apartment, living.

You can let your situation drive you crazy or just accept the things you can't change.
You are not a helpless victim who is being wronged by the world here.
You just have expectations that conflict with reality.
You can't control everything in life but you have power to adjust your expectations, control your reaction to life, and be more happy.