Victim of circumstance in need of advice.. Please Read!

[johnlikesrocks]

Here is my two cents. I think you are on the wrong forum. You need an expert in bankruptcy law. I am also on this site to get some of my diamond questions answered and I truly feel bad for you as I would be super mad if a fourth of my engagement ring money was at stake. This is my understanding of how it works. Understand that I do not know if you have a valid claim or not to receive your money back... I tried to research it but it was taking a lot of time and i could not find the answer.

Once a company files for bankprtupcy, bankruptcy law is king. It trumps everything even decisions by the CEO of the company. Even the CEO must operate its business in accordance with bankruptcy law. Here are my suggestions/opinions...

1. The most prudent option is hiring a lawyer but hiring a lawyer will probably be too expensive. In my area lawyers cost at a minimum 175 dollars an hour and I think that is a relatively cheap hourly rate. You would probably go through 1000 dollars very quickly. So I suggest that you try to find a legal forum to post your question (especially a bankruptcy forum/discussion). I also suggest that you go to a local attorney that specializes in bankrupty and ask to meet with him and just say you have bankruptcy questions. Make sure the consultation is at no charge to you. Many attorneys will offer free initial consultations... If it were me I would try to find an attorney that is married and may on an off chance sympathize with your situation. Remember you have to go to an attorney that specializes in bankruptcy... this is critical as generally attorneys will not research law for free but an attorney that specializes might know the information off the top off his or her head and would probably volunteer that information to you. Don''t be afraid to go to more than one either.... but just make sure the initial consult is free free free!

2. I looked up circuit city and this is the answer I found on CNET on FAQs with respect to circuit city:

Q: If I buy a gift card for someone this holiday, will the company still redeem it? And will returns be honored?
A: We don''t know yet. Circuit City says it has asked the bankruptcy court for permission to honor returns, exchanges, and gift cards, but it does not have a definitive answer yet. Circuit City says that it does expect its request to be granted, but don''t count on it until we know for sure.

3. If you speak with people from the company... I would think that they probably are sympathetic... if you can get the ceo or vp on the line you might want to ask him that as a service to their customers that they request the bankruptcy court honor returns according to their posted policy. CEO might not be able to do anything about your return specifically but he, in my opinion, has nothing to lose in doing the right thing and asking his bankruptcy lawyers to submit a motion to the court to permit returns for his loyal customers.

 

[HappyAnniversary]

I had put down about $350 dollars for a custom chair with Storehouse, they kept stalling on the delivery date and I soon found out why--the store declared bankruptcy. One day the local salespeople said run down to the store and choose something for that value, the next day a guy from outside the local store took over the fire sale and that option was out. We also had a dispute over how much I was owed, Storehouse said $250, my calculations was $350. Anyway I was successful in getting the chargeback(and my estimated value, too), it took maybe 2 months. However, with this new economic climate--who knows what the CC company can do? So the purpose of this post was to warn you that sometimes they take away the option of grabbing the store''s goods and to say my chargeback to a bankrupt store was successful. Oh, and the store personnel were as surprised as we were! Good luck!!!

 

[february2003bride]

I''m sorry that you are going through this!

I would either:

1) dispute the charges

or

2) get your wedding bands from Shane with the $2100.0 credit.

Good luck!!

 

[dominicr]

Full disclosure: I am a jeweler that competes in a market with Shane Co., we saw this coming for awhile but I wouldn''t lay blame on the salesperson. He''s a cog in a machine & probably didn''t know what was coming either. The best advice I''ve seen from others: Grab something NOW to use up your $2100. Do not get a mounting or diamond from them, the engagement ring is too important and a diamond you get from them will probably do you little good if you try to get rid of it somewhere else. Disputing credit card charges is a consumer''s perspective answer. The bankruptcy changes the rules of the game. Go with the sure bet. Earrings, pendant, whatever.

 

[Lexie]

Date: 1/16/2009 10:03:29 AM
Author: johnlikesrocks

2. I looked up circuit city and this is the answer I found on CNET on FAQs with respect to circuit city:

Q: If I buy a gift card for someone this holiday, will the company still redeem it? And will returns be honored?

A: We don't know yet. Circuit City says it has asked the bankruptcy court for permission to honor returns, exchanges, and gift cards, but it does not have a definitive answer yet. Circuit City says that it does expect its request to be granted, but don't count on it until we know for sure.

My boyfriend works for Circuit City (not for much longer, naturally), and according to him, customers who have Circuit City gift cards can indeed redeem them for their full value during the liquidation sales. They will no longer hold any value once all the stores are closed and the company is out of business (by the end of March or so).

The liquidation sales start today, and as far as returns or exchanges are concerned, customers have two weeks to return or exchange any item that was purchased prior to January 16th, and all sales will be final from here on out.

At any rate, it seems like Circuit City seems to be handling things quite fairly, and hopefully Shane Co. will follow suit.

I hope things end up working out for you, Ouch

 

[denverappraiser]

Shaneco is not in liquidation, nor do I expect this to be the result of their restructuring. As I said above, I would immediately dispute the charges on this particular deal but I would not put them in the same category as Circuit City or Sharper Image. All stores are still open and although a few may get shut down based on their own individual merits, they are expected to remain a viable company for years to come.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/17/2009 12:03:26 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Shaneco is not in liquidation, nor do I expect this to be the result of their restructuring. As I said above, I would immediately dispute the charges on this particular deal but I would not put them in the same category as Circuit City or Sharper Image. All stores are still open and although a few may get shut down based on their own individual merits, they are expected to remain a viable company for years to come.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

ditto
talk to your CC company first.
The sooner the better do not delay.

 

[Lexie]

Date: 1/17/2009 11:28:30 PM
Author: Lexie

At any rate, it seems like Circuit City seems to be handling things quite fairly, and hopefully Shane Co. will follow suit.

Oops! I had forgotten an addition to that sentence. It should have read: "[. . .] and hopefully Shane Co. will follow suit, if it ever comes to that (liquidation and all that jazz)."

Disputing the charges on your CC, as Neil previously mentioned, would probably be the easiest and less stressful way to go, given the circumstances.

 

[Steel]

Ouch,

I am sorry the return policy was misrepresented to you.

I am all for equity but under the circumstances I personally would buy wedding bands or a bridal gift, bridemaids/bride gifts etc. This obviously depends on your finances.

Chase the CC company. That should take one tiny little call. If they do not help you then just spend the money as best you can - and I would try to request some flexibility with the manager as to a bit of discount on what you buy again one little call before you move on.

I would take the soft answers here rather than taking longer and upsetting yourself. You sound like a very sweet man - just get this over and done with and move on with your lives. Chalk it down to experience.

 

[motownmama]

So sorry - get diamond stud earrings there and call it a day - otherwise you''re going to put a ton of energy into this with no satisfactory outcome.

 

[dominicr]

Ditto Motownmama

 

[precious jemz]

Yes, the sooner you are able to contact your CC, the better. I had tickets to Hawaii from ATA when they suddenly shut down ...after hearing the horrid story on the morning news, I jumped on the phone and laid down my case. Fortunately, after 2 weeks, I received a call from my credit card company saying that all charges were reversed. Further, she said that if I had paid cash, I would have been dragged through the whole bankruptcy thing and been the last on the totem pole after all creditors are paid off.
If you don''t see anything you like (the ideas to use your $2100 for wedding jewelry is a good one), make the call!

 

[oobiecoo]

I agree that disputing the charge is best at this point. I disputed 2... maybe 3... charges for my wedding photographer and it only took about 2 weeks.

 

[caribqueen]

Don''t know if this helps, but the last line of an article about the company in the Denver Post says:
"The company offers a 60-day refund and exchange guarantee, which John Rubbo, store manager in Greenwood Village, said is still being honored."

article:
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_11438579

 

[jrdenver]

Same situation, except that I started my layaway in early December. I was told I had a 100% refundable layaway until the 6mo was up. I was ALSO told I had 60 days cash return AFTER I got the merchandise.

I have a dispute pending with my CC company. Curious as to your outcome?

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Date: 1/17/2009 12:37:14 PM
Author: Steel
Ouch,

I am sorry the return policy was misrepresented to you.

I am all for equity but under the circumstances I personally would buy wedding bands or a bridal gift, bridemaids/bride gifts etc. This obviously depends on your finances.

A wedding band is exactly what I was going to suggest. A man''s band with diamonds can easily cost $2100. Or a brides eternity wedding band. Unless you can get the charge back, this would be the way I would go.

 

[Gypsy]

I would buy something.

Here are a few suggestions:

http://www.shaneco.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=26828&from=Search&Cat|category_root|25=Pendants%26Necklaces&Loc=C25&Cat|cat_25|91=Fashion&Page|1=30&Sort=Price(Descending)&isDyorRecordSet=false (see if they will discount it to match the price of your credit) would make a beautiful wedding present.


http://www.shaneco.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=21493&from=Search&searchTerms=Rings&Cat|cat_1|12=WeddingBands&Loc=A13&Page|2=30&Sort=PriceDescending)&isDyorRecordSet=false (Platinum wedding band for you).


http://www.shaneco.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=17689&from=Search&searchTerms=Rings&Cat|cat_1|12=WeddingBands&Loc=A13&Page|2=30&Sort=PriceDescending)&isDyorRecordSet=false (Another option for you).

http://www.shaneco.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=27993&from=Search&Cat|category_root|22=Earrings&Cat|cat_22|50=Hoops&Loc=B13&Page|1=30&Sort=Price%20(Descending)&isDyorRecordSet=false (earrings for her).

http://www.shaneco.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=40958&from=Search&searchTerms=Rings&Cat|cat_1|13=Anniversary&Loc=A14&Page|1=30&Sort=&isDyorRecordSet=false (right hand ring for her)

 

[Ouch]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I have good news to share and I wanted to add a little about my experience with the Shane Company during this process:

I just callled to check the status of the credit card dispute with Chase, and found that my credit card account had been credited back the full amount of the deposit I put down on the ring. The automated service said that the dispute was closed and a letter was being mailed to me to update me on the status, but I am assuming that the "Refund" credit showing up on my CC statement is a pretty good indicator that Chase was able to charge back the Shane Company.

Although I am elated that this is behind me, I do feel the need to be fair to the Shane Company and how I was treated. The sales people at that store saw me several times over the past month and were always helpful, sympathetic to my situation, and very friendly in general. They brought in several diamonds for me to look at, and offered me what amounted to a 9-10% discount on the ring setup I chose as my "back-up" in case Chase could not get my money back for me. As with any store or company, some of the sales people I dealt with were very knowledgeable and helpful, and some were just there taking up space, which is going to be the case in any corporate culture in my experience.


I will most likely shop there again in the future for other special occasions, and I hope they make it through the restructuring process.

Thanks again to everyone on the board, and especially to Denver Appraiser. Your post calmed me down quite a bit, and helped my patience throughout the last month. I was almost ready for settle for something I wasn''t thrilled with to avoid losing the money altogether several times over the past month.

Thanks again to everyone who gave feedback, and I hope that if someone is in the same situation as me, that my story helps them get to a similar resolution.

 

[AprilBaby]

Congratulations on a good outcome! I am sure your post will help someone else!

 

[packrat]

I''m glad it all worked out for you!!

 

[blastdoor]

hi Ouch, have been following your thread though never really posted, and am glad to learn that things turned out well for you...

the crisis is really putting a test on so many of the things that we have gotten used to in life... and it is so great to see so many people readily helping one other out in these times..

to the guys at Shane's...

to the Denver Appraiser and the many others who are always helping people on these pages...

to you too Ouch...

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I''m so glad this worked out in your favor.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 2/20/2009 7:58:40 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
I''m so glad this worked out in your favor.

Ditto

 

[DentD]

I''m glad things worked out for you! I just thought I''d chime in with some "chargeback" knowledge as I used to work specifically in CC Disputes for a couple of years for a large bank (not Chase).

The rules governing chargebacks/credit card disputes are dictated by the Card brand, Visa, Mastercard, Discover, etc. I worked very closely with Visa disputes and Mastercard held similar rules.

In this situation it boils down to what you agreed to (what was disclosed on your sales receipt/credit card slip) at the time of purchase. Your dispute really was a slam dunk, as denverappaiser put it.

But just because a chargeback is successful does not necessarily mean the merchant is not entitled to their money. In order for a merchant to be able to process Visa, Mastercard, etc. transactions they have to agree to the rules set by those card entities. So essentially a chargeback is just the card entity''s way of telling the merchant that they cannot use THAT method of payment in that situation.

We always had to tell cardholders that in certain situations the merchant may still be legally entitled to those funds. There have been times where merchants will sue their customers after we processed a successful chargeback.

I don''t want to alarm you at all, I just thought I''d shed some light on the dispute process. I feel that regardless of Shane Co''s bankruptcy filing they should honor your original agreement. Best of luck!

 

[Ouch]

Date: 2/20/2009 8:15:11 PM
Author: DentD
I'm glad things worked out for you! I just thought I'd chime in with some 'chargeback' knowledge as I used to work specifically in CC Disputes for a couple of years for a large bank (not Chase).

The rules governing chargebacks/credit card disputes are dictated by the Card brand, Visa, Mastercard, Discover, etc. I worked very closely with Visa disputes and Mastercard held similar rules.

In this situation it boils down to what you agreed to (what was disclosed on your sales receipt/credit card slip) at the time of purchase. Your dispute really was a slam dunk, as denverappaiser put it.

But just because a chargeback is successful does not necessarily mean the merchant is not entitled to their money. In order for a merchant to be able to process Visa, Mastercard, etc. transactions they have to agree to the rules set by those card entities. So essentially a chargeback is just the card entity's way of telling the merchant that they cannot use THAT method of payment in that situation.

We always had to tell cardholders that in certain situations the merchant may still be legally entitled to those funds. There have been times where merchants will sue their customers after we processed a successful chargeback.

I don't want to alarm you at all, I just thought I'd shed some light on the dispute process. I feel that regardless of Shane Co's bankruptcy filing they should honor your original agreement. Best of luck!

Thanks for the info. I am not alarmed. If they want to sue me, they can go right ahead. I very seriously doubt that they would pursue anything like that, everyone at Corporate and at the store level desperately wanted to rectify the situation one way or another. It would cost them way more than my deposit in legal fees anywayl, not to mention the amount of bad publicity I would bring down upon them.

 

[TravelingGal]

That''s awesome, I am so glad it worked out for you!

 

[Imdanny]

Author: DentD

I'm glad things worked out for you! I just thought I'd chime in with some 'chargeback' knowledge as I used to work specifically in CC Disputes for a couple of years for a large bank (not Chase).


The rules governing chargebacks/credit card disputes are dictated by the Card brand, Visa, Mastercard, Discover, etc. I worked very closely with Visa disputes and Mastercard held similar rules.


In this situation it boils down to what you agreed to (what was disclosed on your sales receipt/credit card slip) at the time of purchase. Your dispute really was a slam dunk, as denverappaiser put it.


But just because a chargeback is successful does not necessarily mean the merchant is not entitled to their money. In order for a merchant to be able to process Visa, Mastercard, etc. transactions they have to agree to the rules set by those card entities. So essentially a chargeback is just the card entity's way of telling the merchant that they cannot use THAT method of payment in that situation.


We always had to tell cardholders that in certain situations the merchant may still be legally entitled to those funds. There have been times where merchants will sue their customers after we processed a successful chargeback.

Only a low-life company would charge a consumer against the consumer's wishes let alone go as far as suing a customer. It's the CUSTOMER'S money. If you tried that with me, you'd see what you were legally entitled to.

 

[marcy]

Glad to hear you got your money back. I for one hope they are around for a long time.

 

[DentD]

Date: 2/21/2009 12:42:10 AM
Author: Imdanny

Author: DentD


I''m glad things worked out for you! I just thought I''d chime in with some ''chargeback'' knowledge as I used to work specifically in CC Disputes for a couple of years for a large bank (not Chase).



The rules governing chargebacks/credit card disputes are dictated by the Card brand, Visa, Mastercard, Discover, etc. I worked very closely with Visa disputes and Mastercard held similar rules.



In this situation it boils down to what you agreed to (what was disclosed on your sales receipt/credit card slip) at the time of purchase. Your dispute really was a slam dunk, as denverappaiser put it.



But just because a chargeback is successful does not necessarily mean the merchant is not entitled to their money. In order for a merchant to be able to process Visa, Mastercard, etc. transactions they have to agree to the rules set by those card entities. So essentially a chargeback is just the card entity''s way of telling the merchant that they cannot use THAT method of payment in that situation.



We always had to tell cardholders that in certain situations the merchant may still be legally entitled to those funds. There have been times where merchants will sue their customers after we processed a successful chargeback.

Only a low-life company would charge a consumer against the consumer''s wishes let alone go as far as suing a customer. It''s the CUSTOMER''S money. If you tried that with me, you''d see what you were legally entitled to.

I completely agree, OP is definitely entitled to his money. I just wanted to point out that a successful chargeback does not always mean that''s the end of it.