video of cops clearly committing murder

[violet02]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:50:49 PM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 1/9/2009 8:41:29 PM
Author: violet02
I don't know if this was mentioned already but I was reading an Oakland blogger's site about the protests and it was mentioned that the officer thought he was drawing his taser not his gun and in the heat of the moment made a very bad tragic mistake.

Now I'm not condoning what happened. It was horrific. I just though I would add that point.

ETA: I love Oakland so very much, I consider it one of my hometowns and I'm really saddened to see all of the vandalism, looting and destruction.

Sorry, but this is a BS cover-up.

Would you honestly mix up a handgun with a taser? If this guy would he has No Business carrying one. Police work is all about 'the heat of the moment', and he should be well trained and prepared for such a situation.
I will also ask, why would you need to even taser a guy who's face down in cuffs?


Pls tell me you don't really believe that?

I just mentioned what was stated in a blog.

I'm not condoning any violent actions on the part of the bart police.

 

[bobbin]

Date: 1/9/2009 5:01:55 AM
Author: arjunajane

ETA: aren''t these only transit police?? They''re not even ''proper'' police right? I find it incredible that transit police even have a need to be carrying guns and taking these risks in the first place.

I''m not sure what the system is over there- and I asked the same question when I saw this, but in my city (in Aus) the transit police are normal police officers who have been assigned to the transit section. SDL- do you know what the case is over there.

I think I also have to add in reply to SDL''s post that I understand where you are coming from and I realise that police officers have an extremely difficult job, but they are in a position of authority and placed with the responsibility of protecting us, they are in a position of trust. When a police officer abuses that trust, it is worse than a criminal committing a crime. Again, let me reitirate that I know the majority of police officers are like you, responsible and do their job because they want to help, and I definitely agree that all police officers should not be tainted by the actions of a few.

 

[violet02]

Date: 1/10/2009 1:32:00 AM
Author: bobbin

Date: 1/9/2009 5:01:55 AM
Author: arjunajane

ETA: aren't these only transit police?? They're not even 'proper' police right? I find it incredible that transit police even have a need to be carrying guns and taking these risks in the first place.

I'm not sure what the system is over there- and I asked the same question when I saw this, but in my city (in Aus) the transit police are normal police officers who have been assigned to the transit section. SDL- do you know what the case is over there.

I think I also have to add in reply to SDL's post that I understand where you are coming from and I realise that police officers have an extremely difficult job, but they are in a position of authority and placed with the responsibility of protecting us, they are in a position of trust. When a police officer abuses that trust, it is worse than a criminal committing a crime. Again, let me reitirate that I know the majority of police officers are like you, responsible and do their job because they want to help, and I definitely agree that all police officers should not be tainted by the actions of a few.

Yes they are the Bay Area Rapid Transit Police who aren't answerable to police department or any other authority but themselves it seems. Which obviously needs to be changed.

ETA: Here this is more accurate:

"BART was created in 1957 as a result of state legislation, with governance granted to an elected board of directors, the two lawmakers note. But the board has not provided a proper mechanism for public input and comment on BART police policy, they say: "Unlike the San Francisco Police Commission, BART lacks any real means for the public to air their grievances regarding police conduct or for an independent body that can propose corrective actions."
"Complaints and grievances against BART police officers have been investigated and adjudicated internally without any independent review," the lawmakers wrote. "This is a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11407717

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:50:49 PM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 1/9/2009 8:41:29 PM

Author: violet02

I don''t know if this was mentioned already but I was reading an Oakland blogger''s site about the protests and it was mentioned that the officer thought he was drawing his taser not his gun and in the heat of the moment made a very bad tragic mistake.


Now I''m not condoning what happened. It was horrific. I just though I would add that point.


ETA: I love Oakland so very much, I consider it one of my hometowns and I''m really saddened to see all of the vandalism, looting and destruction.

Sorry, but this is a BS cover-up.


Would you honestly mix up a handgun with a taser? If this guy would he has No Business carrying one. Police work is all about ''the heat of the moment'', and he should be well trained and prepared for such a situation.

I will also ask, why would you need to even taser a guy who''s face down in cuffs?



Pls tell me you don''t really believe that?

According to all protocol I have EVER read regarding the use of tasers by numerous organizations inclucing police officers in several states, transit authority, and campus security forces it is not permitted to tase someone when they are in handcuffs and pose no threat to the officers involved.** I think it would be superbly difficult to argue that this man posed a threat in any way. I know the videos were grainy but again, they''re not THAT grainy, and it seems clear that the officers had very good control of this man at the time he was shot...
in other words, even if he was attempting to taser him that woul dhave been a very bad judgment call. To say that a taser could be confused with a gun says to me that it''s either a bullsh*t excuse, or that the guns and tasers in question look VERY different from any I have seen before. And I''ve seen a lot of tasers.

**I did a huge body of research on tasers and common taser protocol when the campus security at my college was arguing in favor of their carrying them.

 

[WishfulThinking]

As an aside, I am not really sure what the [seemingly minimal] looting and vandalism, etc has to do with the main issue at hand. Obviously I am not condoning violence or destruction of property, but that doesn''t in any way negate the fact that BART transit security people KILLED THIS GUY. Does anyone really not understand why people are upset and frustrated? It''s been days and the issue isn''t being addressed at all. In fact, what are people supposed to do in this situation? Again, not condoning violence and property destruction, but I am very concerned that this incident will be swept under the rug just as so many cases of police brutality/violations of protocol are. I really don''t blame people for being extremely angry, and I would definitely be in the streets if I lived in that area.... not destroying anything, though.

If people don''t demand an investigation there will never be one.

 

[strmrdr]

The I mixed up a taser for a gun defense has worked before and got cops off on murder charges so it is no surprise that they will try it.
If a non-cop did the same thing they would be up on charges so fast their head would spin.

I highly doubt there will be any justice unless a federal investigation is done and federal charges filled.
They always seem to pay a few million bucks to the family and let the cop walk on the local level.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/10/2009 1:32:00 AM
Author: bobbin

Date: 1/9/2009 5:01:55 AM
Author: arjunajane

ETA: aren''t these only transit police?? They''re not even ''proper'' police right? I find it incredible that transit police even have a need to be carrying guns and taking these risks in the first place.

I''m not sure what the system is over there- and I asked the same question when I saw this, but in my city (in Aus) the transit police are normal police officers who have been assigned to the transit section. SDL- do you know what the case is over there.

I think I also have to add in reply to SDL''s post that I understand where you are coming from and I realise that police officers have an extremely difficult job, but they are in a position of authority and placed with the responsibility of protecting us, they are in a position of trust. When a police officer abuses that trust, it is worse than a criminal committing a crime. Again, let me reitirate that I know the majority of police officers are like you, responsible and do their job because they want to help, and I definitely agree that all police officers should not be tainted by the actions of a few.

Hi Bobbin,

I imagine it is very different in the US (and of course each state/city). I''m also in Aus (WA), and here transit police are an authority all of their own, and they are not "real" police. And they certainly don''t carry guns, thank God.


Violet02, thankyou for the explanation, I understand. It just gets me riled that ppl like that blogger purport the Lies that these criminals use to get off, yanno?
Also cheers for the info on BART.


Wishful, I agree. Its not even in the same country as me and it angers me. I would be protesting too. Although, the really sad thing is, I have to think "so what if he even does get charged?" It is very possible justice will still be ignored and the officer let off - just as was seen in the case of Sean Bell (NY), and I''m sure there are many others I am not aware of.
I have never seen a taser nor a handgun in person, but common-sense would rule that you don''t create one to look like the other, simply because of its intended use. Seeing as you have seen them and agree, I will rest sound in my judgement that it was a BS half-hearted defence.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 1/10/2009 2:11:44 AM
Author: WishfulThinking
As an aside, I am not really sure what the [seemingly minimal] looting and vandalism, etc has to do with the main issue at hand. Obviously I am not condoning violence or destruction of property, but that doesn''t in any way negate the fact that BART transit security people KILLED THIS GUY. Does anyone really not understand why people are upset and frustrated? It''s been days and the issue isn''t being addressed at all. In fact, what are people supposed to do in this situation? Again, not condoning violence and property destruction, but I am very concerned that this incident will be swept under the rug just as so many cases of police brutality/violations of protocol are. I really don''t blame people for being extremely angry, and I would definitely be in the streets if I lived in that area.... not destroying anything, though.

If people don''t demand an investigation there will never be one.

agreed: property rights violations just does NOT trump civil rights violations....especially when the civil right violation is murder.

side note: people interviewed who had property destroyed said they understood why it happened...the frustration. they weren''t angry! they too are people of color and understand how the tension has built in the community. however, they did point out that they too are people of color [mostly asian and latino] and wanted to make sure protestors understood that. however, want to talk about property destruction? time to start another thread.

this Bart officer needs to be held accountable just like anyone else....but he walked away and no one seems to be able to make him explain his actions!


movie zombie