Vintage 4.5ish Carat Round (with Tapered Baguettes) to Reset. Should I Consider Recutting?

[Texas Leaguer]

That's a good looking rock but I'll weigh in on team re-cut. Or at least team explore recut.

There is a reason the cutter used these proportions, and it was not to make the most beautiful diamond. It was an economic decision. Since you are the lucky recipient of the diamond as a gift, the cost of optimizing its light performance is relatively small. And if you are not stuck on the carat weight or outside dimensions, tuning the stone up as needed to be a top performer has no real downside.

Personally, I don't think the mrb's of the 60's and 70's have a particular charm - not like the old mine cuts or old European cuts. They can be bright but lacking in the magic of fire. I think the stone will have more personality with a fuller crown and making sure the crown and pavilion angles are complimentary. It will have fuller expression of the best optics in a wider range of lighting conditions. That's the charm I would be looking for!

The problem with a large table and shallow crown is two-fold; the table facet throws excessive glare, and you need an ample crown to gather light from a wide range of angles and to disperse light into it's component colors on the way back to your eye (fire).

I would take it to an experienced and well equipped gemologist/appraiser and get details of the stone, including a Sarine scan. This way you have a good idea of what you actually have, so that you can make a well informed decision as to wether to recut or not. This may cost you less than sending it to GIA in case you decide to recut. If you don't recut, you may not need to spend the money on a GIA report if the document your gemologist prepares is sufficient for your purposes. If you do recut, your project should include a GIA report of the finished stone.

Good luck!

 

[Karl_K]

Interesting @Texas Leaguer I agree and have a mild disclaimer to add..
There were a lot of stones cut in that era that were pretty blah but there were also some that would get the top light performance grades from IGI and AGS. Some by today's standards just a tad shallow.
Just because a stone was bought in the 1900s, 1930s, 1960s or yesterday its always a case by case basis is the disclaimer.

 

[gemshow]

I keep waffling. You all are really helping me ...to see the good of both courses of action (or inaction)

I love the idea of having it reset lower in its current setting and thinking about it for a while, but then I wonder, what do I have to lose by at least exploring a recut?

 

[MissGotRocks]

Environment can make any diamond look tinted. But nothing can make a highly tinted diamond look like this. I think its near colorless range at least!

That was my thought too!

 

[MissGotRocks]

I keep waffling. You all are really helping me ...to see the good of both courses of action (or inaction)

I love the idea of having it reset lower in its current setting and thinking about it for a while, but then I wonder, what do I have to lose by at least exploring a recut?

You have nothing to lose by exploring a recut. As I said, you might find the loss of weight or diameter may be a deciding factor in not doing it. Just asking about it though will give you more information to make an informed decision. Either way - keep it as is or recut - you are going to have a beautiful diamond!

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Wait to decide on a recut. I've had diamonds I disliked for years become stones that I love, it can take time. If you do a recut, it's forever.

 

[Dreamer_D]

If this gem is as colourless as we all suspect, any lost weight will be losing so much value, too!

(Can you tell I really don’t want you to touch it lol)

EDIT

This is how I would proceed personally.

1) get it unset and appraised by a true master appraiser including a sarin report like Brian said. This only works if you live in a big city with some of the big Ps worthy appraisers around I guess. I wouldn’t mail that thing anywhere that’s for sure! But this will tell you the stats and let you know the value.

2) send the info from 1 to Brian Gavin and see what he says.

3) see about having it set a little lower into the head of the ring. Might need to replace the head. Then you can wear it while you...

4) Ponder.

5) keep us all posted every step of the way or we will come for you with pitch forks. This will be the most interesting journey we’ve seen around these parts in ages!

 

[gemshow]

You're in an enviable position!

While you are playing around with the ring, these might be a fun tools to get:

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

Then you can measure the mm of the diamond. It doesn't hurt to have the stone assessed for a recut so you know what is possible.

Thanks for this reminder. I can't find my calipers (ack!) but grabbed my UV light and had great fun last night shining it on all of my jewelry. This ring does not appear to have any fluorescence (but I have a few other pieces that do).

If this gem is as colourless as we all suspect, any lost weight will be losing so much value, too!

(Can you tell I really don’t want you to touch it lol)

EDIT

This is how I would proceed personally.

1) get it unset and appraised by a true master appraiser including a sarin report like Brian said. This only works if you live in a big city with some of the big Ps worthy appraisers around I guess. I wouldn’t mail that thing anywhere that’s for sure! But this will tell you the stats and let you know the value.

2) send the info from 1 to Brian Gavin and see what he says.

3) see about having it set a little lower into the head of the ring. Might need to replace the head. Then you can wear it while you...

4) Ponder.

5) keep us all posted every step of the way or we will come for you with pitch forks. This will be the most interesting journey we’ve seen around these parts in ages!

I think this is the best process. Regarding a true master appraiser with sarin, any suggestions on to whom I could take it around NYC? Someone who will will both unmount the center stone, and analyze/run reports?

Ultimately, no matter which course I take I do want to also get it to GIA for laser inscription/ full report to memorialize stats for my own curiosity (and insurance) and for whoever might own it next.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I don’t know anyone but I’m sure someone will have a recommendation. NYC is a diamond capital! You can have everything done there.

Absolutely get a GIA report but only after you have settled on the recut issue I would think.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Interesting @Texas Leaguer I agree and have a mild disclaimer to add..
There were a lot of stones cut in that era that were pretty blah but there were also some that would get the top light performance grades from IGI and AGS. Some by today's standards just a tad shallow.
Just because a stone was bought in the 1900s, 1930s, 1960s or yesterday its always a case by case basis is the disclaimer.

This is very true Karl.
Most people don't realize that there were some American cutters bucking the status quo and cutting for beauty even before Tolkowsky published his famous work. Al Gibertson chonicles them in his excellent book American Cut - The First 100 Years.

Unfortunately they were swimming upstream against a mighty current! They would probably be gratifified by some of the things happening in the cutting world today.

 

[gemshow]

UPDATE:
As appraised by Robert Bunda: center stone
H VS1 a hair under 4ct measuring 10.31-10.23mm diameter x 6.3mm deep
61.6% depth
59% table
VG polish and symmetry
Side baguettes appx .25 each constituting the 4.5ct weight I was told... 4.5tcw

Robert Bunda was excellent and I can't recommend him enough. He's available by appointment in Manhattan and Westchester NY. His findings comport with my crude and very untrained measurements.

Now I'm thinking it's best to leave this vintage gem alone at at least initially. It is rotating a bit, so at a minimum I'm thinking I'll have it unmounted, graded/inscribed by GIA and then replaced in its setting

I'd like to see it reset lower and if that's possible in it's current setting I will engage someone to do so

If the current setting cant accommode a lower setting I'll consider having the setting remade in the same style with better proportions.

Of course I AM still itching to see what a Sarin would reveal. But since I'm strongly inclined not to recut, I don't think it makes sense to go down that road right now(?)

 

[Dreamer_D]

Yes I appreciate the way you are thinking about this. Wow, H VS1! Even if that is liberal it is still a very very white diamond. It’s worth a pretty penny so I also would not risk messing with it too much. Luckily you live near the diamond capital of the US and I’m sure you can find someone to do the work you describe.