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virtual inventory vs. super ideal diamond questions

lovedogs

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
19,976
Hi All,
I mostly post on colored stones, but have recently been considering upgrading my center engagement ring stone so have been looking at RT/SMTB more.

I currently have a 1ct OEC moissanite in my ring, and am thinking about upgrading it to a diamond (or alternatively getting a better cut moissanite, but I know not to post about that here). If I were to go with a diamond, I have a few questions for the resident experts about virtual inventory vs in-stock stones, and about "super ideals":


1. About USA Certed: When I search through the tool on PS, his prices are consistently lower than anyone else's, but he seems to mostly have access to virtual inventory and doesn't have pictures of the actual stone. Obviously I wouldn't feel comfortable buying anything without seeing an image/video--so I assume he is willing to send these when people inquire?

2. The other vendor who has very competitive prices is B2C. I've spoken to a rep via chat, and she seems very nice, but not necessarily able to get videos of stones I am considering. Again I feel like there's no way to buy something without seeing a video, but would that happen after I purchase within the return window?

3. The other option is (of course) to avoid virtual inventory and go with vendors who have stuff in stock. I've been emailing a bit with Wink/Melissa from HPD, who are lovely and helpful. I love their upgrade policy and incredible cut stones, but am wary of spending 2x the amount (at least 2K more anyway) and not noticing the difference. For reference, they've shown me a great stone in the 3K range that's slightly smaller than I'd prefer, and another perfect sized one in the low 5K range, whereas the B2C stones are the right size at a 3K price tag.

For reference, I'm looking for a stone as close to 1ct as possible, am fine with lower colors (I actually really like warmer stones when they are well cut), and also fine with some inclusions as long as they aren't huge or detract from the beauty of the stone itself. I am certainly willing to save/spend more if I would definitely notice the difference between a CBI vs. a triple X/under 2 HCA stone--but am a little stuck since I just don't know if the difference would be noticeable in such a small size (relatively), and lower color range.

Thanks!
 
1) I’m sure i have read here that he will get pics, videos and asets.

2) B2C does send a video. At least they did for me before I purchased.

I can’t answer if you would notice a difference. I’m not sure.

B2C did send me my stone before I had it set so I could be sure I liked it.
 
@Wink shared a post awhile back that I enjoyed. The summarized version is he would blindly present stones to people and they would choose super ideal for one reason or another.

For that reason I think you will see a difference. The question is if that premium is justifiable in your eyes.

I do think you can find a great stone in virtual inventory, or just takes more work and patience. Also maybe a higher risk tolerance as you sometimes have limited or no advanced data to make your decision. At which point you have to return and swap, or get a refund.

With super ideal stones you get great cut quality, true H&A symmetry and any proprietary cut methods specific to each vendor. Also access to full performance data and images to make an informed decision. Not to mention superb customer service and (typically) better upgrade programs.

Can you link any of the specific stones you've looked at? It would give us a starting point to better understand your initial analysis and possibly present some alternate options.
 
I'd only deal with in-house vendors. I don't like going on a wild goose chase. If I have any Q about the stone I can get an answer right away. if you buy from a in-house vendor it will be much easier to upgrade in the future.
 
Between USA CERT/B2C and CBI/Whiteflash/Brian Gavin, there is James Allen and Bluenile. James Allen is my personal favourite. I like their 360 degree videos. I don't mind a bit of searching and digging; in fact, I enjoy that process. The 360 degree video is good enough for checking severe light leakage (for warm colored stones) and painting and digging. And you can ask for the IS image, although it is not always available.
 
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I absolutely think the upgrade policies are worth it for the superideals, particularly Whiteflash and HPD. I've bought diamonds from WF and upgraded multiple times!
 
Thanks for your opinions, everyone! @sledge here are some I've been considering (note that I am fine with faint brown, as long as it's well cut without any massive inclusions it doesn't bother me).

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/109819...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117966...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117719...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

**this one is my favorite--probably because there's a video and I have a better "feel" for it.

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/116613...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com


In terms of super-ideals, I like this CBI, but it's obviously much more expensive.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10210

Here's another CBI that's lovely, but smaller than I'd like:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7895
 
First thing that jumps out to me is you are comparing apples and oranges.

I have to assume pricing for M colored stones is considerably less than J/K colored stones. Plus the super ideal price increase. Plus CBI is normally more expensive than WF and sometimes more than BGD as well.

Are you set on CBI if you go for super ideal?

I will do some looking
 
If you google the GIA number, you can sometimes find a video elsewhere
 
lovedogs said:
Thanks for your opinions, everyone! @sledge here are some I've been considering (note that I am fine with faint brown, as long as it's well cut without any massive inclusions it doesn't bother me).

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/10981933/round-diamond-M-color-VS1-Clarity?sku=10981933&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117966...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117719...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

**this one is my favorite--probably because there's a video and I have a better "feel" for it.

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/116613...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com


In terms of super-ideals, I like this CBI, but it's obviously much more expensive.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10210

Here's another CBI that's lovely, but smaller than I'd like:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7895
Click to expand...
Of all of the virtual stones, only the first one meets the recommended parameters. All of the other have issues with crown angles or table sizes. It would be worth seeing if they could get you an ASET and H&A view of the diamond. At the very least you need a video.

The CBI stones are impeccable and you have no worries there. Plus you’d have an upgrade option for the future.

Have you checked the inventory at Whiteflash?

The biggest problem you have is that cutting to the 1ct mark ensures a premium, so some cutters are willing to skimp on quality of cut in order to save weight. Since top-notch cutters won’t do that, they often lose out on the bids for diamond rough (and therefore there is little/no super ideal inventory in that range). I read a good piece on this topic recently; I’ll see if I can find it again.
 
sledge said:
First thing that jumps out to me is you are comparing apples and oranges.

I have to assume pricing for M colored stones is considerably less than J/K colored stones. Plus the super ideal price increase. Plus CBI is normally more expensive than WF and sometimes more than BGD as well.

Are you set on CBI if you go for super ideal?

I will do some looking
Click to expand...

Good point--I think that's part of the issue. I asked Wink/Melissa if I could get an M colored CBI, but I don't think they have any at the moment.

I'm not set on CBI. I just really like Wink and trust his expertise--plus I've been really impressed by the CBI videos I've seen. But no, it's not a set thing for sure.
 
ILikeShiny said:
Of all of the virtual stones, only the first one meets the recommended parameters. All of the other have issues with crown angles or table sizes. It would be worth seeing if they could get you an ASET and H&A view of the diamond. At the very least you need a video.

The CBI stones are impeccable and you have no worries there. Plus you’d have an upgrade option for the future.

Have you checked the inventory at Whiteflash?

The biggest problem you have is that cutting to the 1ct mark ensures a premium, so some cutters are willing to skimp on quality of cut in order to save weight. Since top-notch cutters won’t do that, they often lose out on the bids for diamond rough (and therefore there is little/no super ideal inventory in that range). I read a good piece on this topic recently; I’ll see if I can find it again.
Click to expand...

I must have messed up the PS search--I told it to only show stones that were either GIA XXX or AGS 000 AND HCA under 2. Thanks for the head's up! I was trying to avoid having to manually enter everything into the HCA calculator haha.
 
lovedogs said:
I must have messed up the PS search--I told it to only show stones that were either GIA XXX or AGS 000 AND HCA under 2. Thanks for the head's up! I was trying to avoid having to manually enter everything into the HCA calculator haha.
Click to expand...
I just did a quick scan of the diamonds measurements to see if they complied =)2.

6F8A181F-FC03-4046-A7BB-3E7AD7302231.jpeg
 
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I also like the M/SI2 you posted from JA. As far as lower colors are concerned, I'm definitely a fan of the James Allen-type videos where you can actually see the color of the diamond in normal lighting. There's such a range of diamond undertones out there that I would want to see the color up close in this type of video before I buy. I love the stones with a rich, buttery yellow like the one you selected here from James Allen, but I really dislike the ones with a yellow leaning more towards the bright, neon-ish side of yellow or brownish yellow.

The color tone makes all the difference in the K and below range. I think you're on the right track with the JA stone. :)
 
Thanks @ILikeShiny and @TreeScientist for your help. I also love the light brown undertones and the rich butter, but agree that brown/yellow isn't as appealing.

I put the JA one on hold until they send me the ASET (which should happen tomorrow, apparently).

Yeah, I know there's a visible inclusion, but it doesn't really bother me. I honestly didn't even see it until looking at it for a long time.

I still like this one: https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117719...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Does the 58% table mean it definitely won't be a good performer?
 
lovedogs said:
Thanks @ILikeShiny and @TreeScientist for your help. I also love the light brown undertones and the rich butter, but agree that brown/yellow isn't as appealing.

I put the JA one on hold until they send me the ASET (which should happen tomorrow, apparently).

Yeah, I know there's a visible inclusion, but it doesn't really bother me. I honestly didn't even see it until looking at it for a long time.

I still like this one: https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117719...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Does the 58% table mean it definitely won't be a good performer?
Click to expand...

That one is also beautiful if you like champagne (light brown) undertone in your diamonds. Don't worry about the 58% table. I would still ask for an IS image to confirm that there isn't any painting or digging, but it looks good to me judging from the video alone.
 
TreeScientist said:
That one is also beautiful if you like champagne (light brown) undertone in your diamonds. Don't worry about the 58% table. I would still ask for an IS image to confirm that there isn't any painting or digging, but it looks good to me judging from the video alone.
Click to expand...


Thanks! I'll ask--I asked B2C to have someone look at the ones I posted about and let me know which one looks best. But I'll definitely ask to see if they have an IS image.
 
lovedogs said:
I'm not set on CBI. I just really like Wink and trust his expertise--plus I've been really impressed by the CBI videos I've seen. But no, it's not a set thing for sure.
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TBH, Wink's video sucks! :knockout:... compared to the real thing. :love::love:. Wife and I Just came from dinner with two of our friends whom were sporting CBI diamonds...:love::love:
 
Check out @cflutist's thread on her Q-colour CBI diamond - it's awesome! :))
 
Dancing Fire said:
TBH, Wink's video sucks! :knockout:... compared to the real thing. :love::love:. Wife and I Just came from dinner with two of our friends whom were sporting CBI diamonds...:love::love:
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That must have been a somewhat distracted conversation :D lol

Hurry up and get that 3ct Octavia sorted so you can compete ;)
 
Sorry for delay. Had to spend some time with the honey. Comments below on each stone.

lovedogs said:
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/109819...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
Click to expand...

Table, depth and CA/PA angle combos all work nicely. I think this will be a good performing stone. I personally would like to see 75 LGF's as I prefer "fat arrows" but 80 LGF's are within acceptable range. That is just a preference of mine.

Clarity is great. If you are happy with color, it should be on your short list of GIA XXX stones.

Capture.PNG

lovedogs said:
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117966...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
Click to expand...

Angles are not complimentary. Reject.

lovedogs said:
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/117719...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

**this one is my favorite--probably because there's a video and I have a better "feel" for it.
Click to expand...

Would prefer a smaller 54-57 table, but 58 is within acceptable range. CA/PA combo is gorgeous. Plus fat arrows at 75 LGF (although GIA rounds to the nearest 5% on LGF values). Larger table means you will have a little more white light vs rainbow. A smaller table w/ these same angles would have a bit more fire. However, still great angles and will be a gorgeous stone.

Capture2.PNG

lovedogs said:
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/116613...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
Click to expand...

Angles aren't the most complimentary, and 80 LGF's. On still picture you can see where the angles is beginning to rear it's ugly head (see red marks).

Capture3.PNG

I think both are worth holding and asking for an ASET or IS image.

I ran out of steam and need a little sleep. Will finish reviewing and recommending tomorrow AM.
 

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lovedogs said:
Good point--I think that's part of the issue. I asked Wink/Melissa if I could get an M colored CBI, but I don't think they have any at the moment.

I'm not set on CBI. I just really like Wink and trust his expertise--plus I've been really impressed by the CBI videos I've seen. But no, it's not a set thing for sure.
Click to expand...
I was told by Layla they only go down to K now. I was disappointed because I was wanting a lower color and had seen HPDs in lower colors. I wonder if you have to special order?
 
OoohShiny said:
Check out @cflutist's thread on her Q-colour CBI diamond - it's awesome! :))
Click to expand...

Haha that's one of the threads that motivated me to think about upgrading to a diamond!


Wewechew said:
I was told by Layla they only go down to K now. I was disappointed because I was wanting a lower color and had seen HPDs in lower colors. I wonder if you have to special order?
Click to expand...

Hmm, that's a little sad for me as well, since a stone in the L/M/N range would be more affordable and I would love the color.

Thanks @sledge for the help, I'll see what b2c says today and ask about IS.
 
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