VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamond??

[dch2gav]

Hi all,

I would like to spend around $5000 for a wedding ring with a round brilliant diamond. I have been looking only for signature ideal cut, E/F colour and VVS1/IF clarity, am I correct to assume that the most important thing is the cut? or shall I reduce the spec to buy a bigger diamond

Option 1)
0.61 carat with Signature Ideal, F, IF, excellent cut grade/polish/symmetry, no Fluoresence BUT in the clarity characteristics it says minor details of polish finish for $4154
Gia certificate
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-f-color-if-clarity_LD02461915



Option 2)
0.63 carat with Signature Ideal, F, VVS1, excellent cut grade/polish/symmetry, no Fluoresence for $4,173
Gia certificate and price $4,173
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-f-color-vvs1-clarity_LD02454798

or

Option 3)
Not sure what is the least important factor to reduce spec and use extra money for bigger diamond?

I am very interested in hearing your opinions.

Aris

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

I would absolutely go no higher than F color since it is in the colorless range, and I would look for VS1 in clarity. You cannot see inclusions in VS1 with your eyes and it is almost impossible to see them with a 10x loupe because they would be extremely small. I cannot see a thing in my VS1 stones with a loupe. Never compromise on the cut! Stick with GIA excellent or AGS Ideal cut.

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

@ diamondseeker2006

thanks for your reply, you advice to drop the clarity (as you can only tell difference with mechanical aid) and stay with F colour, while the signature ideal cut stays the same.

I will visit the site again and see if by doing these changes i free up some cash for bigger diamond.

Once again thanks for your opinion.

 

[ChrisES]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

I will echo the suggestion that you back off on your stats a bit. You should reduce color and clarity to afford a bigger diamond. Now, there are a bunch of questions to ask, the most important of which is how big do you want to go? If you simply want something that looks colorless and eyeclean, then take diamondseeker's suggestion and go F/VS1 (or even VS2, honestly). Looking at James Allen, if we assume you'll spend $1000 on the setting and $4000 on the diamond, you should be able to get at least a .70 like this one: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1444212.asp

If you post more information on your exact budget and how much you're willing to compromise, some more adept diamond searchers than I will be able to post many suggestions. A lot of Pricescope posters like the G/VS2 range...personally, I care more about color and less about clarity, such that I would suggest F/SI1...in which case you could afford a .80 like this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Very%20Good-Cut-Round-Diamond-1437960.asp

I would sacrifice clarity first, then color, then cut (don't sacrifice cut). I think that the most important thing to do is see some diamonds in person (even just at the mall) so you can see how the different factors impact appearance. Then you can choose the diamond that's best for YOU...but be sure to post here again so we can make sure you get a fair price!

 

[decodelighted]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

In a round cut I'd probably be looking at VS2 stones -- maybe in the G range -- to maximize SIZE. And I don't know how much I buy a vendor's "signature ideal" rating. Depends on the vendor.

 

[Amys Bling]

VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamond??

In a round cut I'd probably be looking at VS2 stones -- maybe in the G range -- to maximize SIZE. And I don't know how much I buy a vendor's "signature ideal" rating. Depends on the vendor.

exactly! I would go down o VS2 or if you can find an eyeclean SI stone. I'd pay top both cut- but I wouldnt judge t on the vendors rating- id use the HCA and ASET and IDEALSCOPE images to determine cut quality,

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

I will echo the suggestion that you back off on your stats a bit. You should reduce color and clarity to afford a bigger diamond. Now, there are a bunch of questions to ask, the most important of which is how big do you want to go? If you simply want something that looks colorless and eyeclean, then take diamondseeker's suggestion and go F/VS1 (or even VS2, honestly). Looking at James Allen, if we assume you'll spend $1000 on the setting and $4000 on the diamond, you should be able to get at least a .70 like this one: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1444212.asp

If you post more information on your exact budget and how much you're willing to compromise, some more adept diamond searchers than I will be able to post many suggestions. A lot of Pricescope posters like the G/VS2 range...personally, I care more about color and less about clarity, such that I would suggest F/SI1...in which case you could afford a .80 like this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Very%20Good-Cut-Round-Diamond-1437960.asp

I would sacrifice clarity first, then color, then cut (don't sacrifice cut). I think that the most important thing to do is see some diamonds in person (even just at the mall) so you can see how the different factors impact appearance. Then you can choose the diamond that's best for YOU...but be sure to post here again so we can make sure you get a fair price!

Hi ChrisES,

My gf is 5feet 3inches tall and uk size 10, I am not sure how big to go, I have no idea!!

My budget for the diamond $4000-4200 and 700-800 for platinum setting or go for 18k white gold and put the difference in the D? I am so confused...

I do appreciate your prompt responses and your advice...

 

[kenny]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

Not sure what is the least important factor to reduce spec and use extra money for bigger diamond?

It is hard to answer because even after tons of diamond education people vary.
Certain people simply MUST have a D IF.
Others simply MUST have the largest diamond possible and don't mind color or inclusions they can easily see.

If you find it comforting to be with the majority of well-informed customers they buy they lowest clarity that is eye-clean to them and with the least-expensive color grade where they don't notice or can barely notice the color.
Now, these are gray areas.
People's visions varies when it comes to eye-clean, and so does their sensitivity to color.

I recommend you go to stores to view diamonds of various colors in person to discover YOUR comfort zone.
Doing this with clarity is not as straightforward since one SI1 may be eye-clean to you and another not.

Do stay with GIA or AGS-graded diamonds since other labs lie about color and clarity to make their diamonds seem like a better value.

Also DO stick with the best-cut diamonds since it is good light performance that gives a diamond beauty, not color or clarity (within reason).

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

exactly! I would go down o VS2 or if you can find an eyeclean SI stone. I'd pay top both cut- but I wouldnt judge t on the vendors rating- id use the HCA and ASET and IDEALSCOPE images to determine cut quality,

Hi Amys Bling,

I will drop the clarity from VVS1 BUT being a newbie I dont understand all the acronyms you used, if the GIA certificate says signature ideal cut I should trust them, no?

Thanks

 

[ame]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

Personally I'd do F-G VS1. Same range for your eyes, but still definitely mind-clean.

 

[rainydaze]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

my thoughts assume cut quality is the top priority and no compromises are made there:

i personally wouldn't get IF clarity without also going for D color. thus, if i wanted the highest/most rare clarity, i would sacrifice size and go whole hog, so to speak.

on the flip side, i *would* opt for D color with a lower clarity because you have a chance of seeing the difference between a D and F or lower (and possibly an E, though not many are *that* color sensitive). in this case, i would go lower in clarity to go up in size - to VS1 or VS2 for the most value, having spent the bulk of my budget for cut quality and color. i might consider VVS1 or VVS2 if i could also comfortably get to the size i wanted. and it's a mind-clean thing for me, but i generally wouldn't pair a D with SI1 or lower.

if i didn't *need* or crave the highest/most rare color and/or clarity, i would go with E or F and VS1 or VS2 (maybe even SI1 depending), and maximize size from there.

if size were more important and i couldn't get to the size i wanted within the D/E/F range, then i'd go to G color and VS1/VS2/SI1.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

A GIA report will only say Excellent for cut, polish, and symmetry. An AGS report will say Ideal for cut, polish, and symmetry.

The term Signature Ideal is what some vendors name their top quality stones. That is subjective, but you can trust it when you deal with certain vendors. I'll take a look and see what I can find within your budget. I prefer vendors who have pictures of the stones.

Both of these are AGS Ideal Cut and beautiful stones:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2231226.htm ($4205 pricescope/wire price)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2231226.htm ($4323 " )

 

[tyty333]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

Here is a G/VS2s that would be a lovely stone.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728085.htm

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

woow

the pics are really impressive!! If they are Clarity VS1 shouldn't there be some spots on the pics? or I am talking crap?

My gut says I should stick with VVS but "all" you guys are saying the opposite..... decisions decisions

 

[lapelirroja]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

You shouldn't really see anything obvious in the pics provided by WF (or others) unless its an SI1 (or a bad VS2). VS2 diamonds should be completely eye-clean to pretty much everyone-- although your vision and preferences may vary.

In my personal opinion, I would go to G/VS2 to maximize size. If, after looking at diamonds in person you notice a large difference (that is bothersome) from F to G then stick with F.

This is coming from someone who has a J/VS2 stone. The way I see it, I watched Jon's videos on diamond color, and while I could discern differences in color, they did not BOTHER me. Especially watching the end when you turn them face up (how you see them in rings anyways) and seeing how they all look similar if ideal cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcmSj8dOLRI&list=PL1562D8E0CC94466F&index=5&feature=plpp_video

 

[distracts]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

VS diamonds should not have inclusions that are visible to the naked eye. VS inclusions are normally only visible under 10x magnification. VVS diamonds have inclusions that are difficult to see even under 10x magnification. If you get a VVS diamond, you are paying extra for something you literally cannot see, and, given your level of diamond knowledge, probably will never see, as you don't seem to be the type to stare at your gems with a loupe just for the fun of it.

If you want to buy the "best" as in "the most expensive," simply to say you bought the most expensive, then it's fine to go up in clarity from VS. But I wouldn't bother. I don't care to pay for things that I can't even notice. If you do, that's your prerogative, but most people on this forum wouldn't.

 

[kenny]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

woow

the pics are really impressive!! If they are Clarity VS1 shouldn't there be some spots on the pics? or I am talking crap?

My gut says I should stick with VVS but "all" you guys are saying the opposite..... decisions decisions

If a diamonds was graded by GIA or AGS there is a 99.99999999% chance a VS1 will by eye clean to everyone in every lighting condition.
If a diamonds was graded by GIA or AGS there is a 97,67243495% chance a VS2 will by eye clean to everyone in every lighting condition.
(These numbers were sort of made up to be silly, but they approximately get the point across)

How a diamond is lit can help reveal or not reveal inclusions.
There is a lighting technique called dark-field where light comes from under the diamond that makes inclusions on even VVS diamonds more obvious.
Another vendor Good Old Gold, aka GOG, uses this technique and even adds a red arrow to point to the inclusions.
I like this since I appreciate the extra disclosure it offers and I wish all diamond sellers included dark-field inclusion pics.
In GOG's "regular" pic of the same diamond it is often impossible to see the inclusions that were so obvious in the dark-field pic.

Example of a VS1 GOG listing: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7728/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

If you feel that you are clarity sensitive, I recommend that you stick with VS1. Some VS2's are very clean and others are not quite as clean (as in you might see an inclusion from the side and fairly easily with a loupe). If you want to be safe, then go with VS1.

 

[Amys Bling]

VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamond??

You should be good with a VS1

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

ok ok I am convinced, I will go for a VS1 and bigger D!!!

Is this any good?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1445031.asp

Carat weight: 0.72
Cut: Excellent
Color: F
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 61.7%
Table: 57.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.74*5.77*3.55



....and a question for the ladies - what do you think of this setting

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire-rings/ring/item_57-4132.asp

please let me know what you think.

Aris

 

[Ravinmad]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

you know you can get 3 idealscopes and 3 stones evaulated by JA and they will give you a email report right?

I like this stone too.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1458335.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1464222.asp

here's a .75ct for about 4400 that scores a 1.9 on the HCA, the table is a bit large, but would make it look big

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Very Good-Cut-Round-Diamond-1442121.asp


I would get the 3 you like the most compared and go from there. Idealscopes sometimes show things you dont see otherwise!

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

you know you can get 3 idealscopes and 3 stones evaulated by JA and they will give you a email report right?

I would get the 3 you like the most compared and go from there. Idealscopes sometimes show things you dont see otherwise!

Hi Ravinmad,

Excellent suggestion, I had no idea you could do this, so if I understood well i choose my top 3 stones and ask them to show me the symmetry and colours, correct?

 

[Amys Bling]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

I think that is a lovely setting!

- when you pick your top 3 you ask them to send you Idealscope and ASET images- that way we can see the cut quality in a pic and how well the stone performs.

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

I am glad you like it Amys Bling, hope my gf likes it too!!


one more question before i go to bed 2:07 in the morning here, can i trust the jamesallen website?

I live in the UK and my best friend just bought a stone from bluenile.com, the rest websites mentioned above I have never heard of!!

Looking at bluenile i can only get 0.63carats for my $4100 budget if i wanted a 0.71c with spec signature cut, F, SV1 the price goes to $4700 while jamesallen for 0.71 charge $4000, how come so much difference for exactly the same stone?

Once again thank you all for your help!!!!

 

[yialanliu]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

Blue Nile signature ideal isn't bad at all. They should all have Hearts and Arrows so should all be AGS0 or GIA Excellent. However, the thing about BN is I think they don't do ideascope images or ASET. Thus, it's risky because not Hearts and Arrows are equal in terms of light return.

With regards to JA and BN price differentials. BN signature ideal is H&A whiel the JA you are linked to are not. There is a price premium for Hearts and Arrows. If that's what you want, diamonds can be searched here:

http://www.jamesallen.com/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds/

Just alsow wanted to add, BN is a huge online vendor, most forum users don't prefer workign with them because of the limited information they give, but I do believe it may be the largest online vendor for diamonds.

James Allen is just as trustworthy as BN and the links people have given you are from online vendors where many PS users have found success.

 

[Ravinmad]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

profits and margin, business models and such

James Allen did a excellent job for me and many others I know here.

I would call for the Idealscope and Aset if available, I didnt know you could get aset images, so i didnt but my idealscopes and the gem report helped me make a decision that I love

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

ok ok I am convinced, I will go for a VS1 and bigger D!!!

Is this any good?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1445031.asp

Carat weight: 0.72
Cut: Excellent
Color: F
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 61.7%
Table: 57.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.74*5.77*3.55



....and a question for the ladies - what do you think of this setting

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire-rings/ring/item_57-4132.asp

please let me know what you think.

Aris

I don't think that stone looks as well cut as the two I linked for you from WhiteFlash. I think it is worth spending a couple hundred dollars more for a better cut. This one looks better if you want to stick with James Allen:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1464222.asp

Regarding the setting, that style is nice, but I don't think that particular ring is very well designed. The basket for the stone is too high and I like the shank rounded better than flat. I think you can find a better setting and diamond!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

Blue Nile signature ideal isn't bad at all. They should all have Hearts and Arrows so should all be AGS0 or GIA Excellent. However, the thing about BN is I think they don't do ideascope images or ASET. Thus, it's risky because not Hearts and Arrows are equal in terms of light return.

BN Signature is NOT the same as Hearts and Arrows. This is inaccurate. You can have an AGS0 graded diamond that is not hearts and arrows as well. Hearts and Arrows refers to pattern and precision cutting. And you don't know if you have that unless there are hearts images and arrow images. Even some of James Allen's "True Hearts" are not considered 'real' hearts and arrows diamonds because they are slightly off.

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo

I don't think that stone looks as well cut as the two I linked for you from WhiteFlash. I think it is worth spending a couple hundred dollars more for a better cut. This one looks better if you want to stick with James Allen:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1464222.asp

Regarding the setting, that style is nice, but I don't think that particular ring is very well designed. The basket for the stone is too high and I like the shank rounded better than flat. I think you can find a better setting and diamond!

Just woke up and back on the site for more advice!!

I am a bit confused as on the JA website for Cut categories has: True Hurts, Ideal, VG and when the results come it says excellent, can i assume that excellent = True Hurts?


@diamondseeker2006 why do you say that the JA stone you chose is better than mine? To me they look to have the same spec, can you please elaborate please! and yes you are right if for $200 more you can buy a bettr stone why not do it.

 

[dch2gav]

Re: VVS1 vs IF & Signature Ideal or less spec 4 bigger Diamo



is a 4 or a 6 claw setting "better" for a 0.6-0.7c diamond?