Waiting, but a little different

[tlh]

JulieN, I''m curious at what you do for a living. This level of in depth analysis is great! As women I do think we tend to overthink things sometimes. But I see you point on the friends topic.

Sometimes you just need to attach a compass to the loins and see what they are telling you... they don''t always take you in the right direction, but man... what a fun direction it can be once in a while!

 

[Vani]

It''s worth remembering that sometimes people take for granted what they can get too easily. Knowing you really, really like him when he doesn''t feel quite the same might make him feel a bit... overwhelmed. Pulling back a little emotionally, being a little less willing and available, being open to dating others, might make him think carefully and decide one way or another how he really feels about you.

Note that I am NOT advocating game-playing. Just guarding yourself a little.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 5/12/2009 5:10:03 PM
Author: Vani
It''s worth remembering that sometimes people take for granted what they can get too easily. Knowing you really, really like him when he doesn''t feel quite the same might make him feel a bit... overwhelmed. Pulling back a little emotionally, being a little less willing and available, being open to dating others, might make him think carefully and decide one way or another how he really feels about you.

Note that I am NOT advocating game-playing. Just guarding yourself a little.

I have to agree with Vani.

When I first met my BF, he had just broken up with a long-term GF and wasn''t interested in jumping into a new relationship right away. He wanted to take things slow and be friends first. That was fine with me but I wasn''t interested in being "friends with benefits" and was looking for an actual relationship. I came right out and told him that I cared about him enough to want to keep him as a friend but that I''d be dating because I wanted a BF. Well about a week later, I told him that a guy was interested in me and I would probably be going on a date with him. That night my BF asked me out on our first official date and 3 1/2 years later here we are.

Because my BF knew I was falling for him, he thought he could just keep me as a friend and move along at his pace. Once he realized that I would be pursuing other directions if he wasn''t willing to commit, he changed his tune right away.

 

[blueroses]

It''s totally subjective, but I''d have to say no. There are some people who truly make these choices slowly, and then there are others who are self-protective to the point of not letting others get close at all, and those who can''t be honest and say, "No, I''m not interested," and think they''re being kinder by being vague. The only significant person I dated between my ex and my wonderful BF was the second option: a guy who said very similar things to yours-- he "moved slowly." That ended up being code for "not gonna happen." He was only able to get so far--and then the wall went up.

So.....you''ve put it out there and been clear. (Good for you.) I''d let it be. Don''t wait--life is short.

 

[Pandora II]

Julie, there are a few red flags that your posts threw up for me.

A book you might find an interesting read is "Women Who Love Too Much" - it was an eye-opener for me as a now-cured Florence Nightingale type!

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/12/2009 4:04:17 PM
Author: tlh
JulieN, I'm curious at what you do for a living. This level of in depth analysis is great! As women I do think we tend to overthink things sometimes. But I see you point on the friends topic.


Sometimes you just need to attach a compass to the loins and see what they are telling you... they don't always take you in the right direction, but man... what a fun direction it can be once in a while!

math student. I'm graduating in a month. And, yeah, I'm rationalizing, but it was persuasive enough to have worked on me.

For Buddhists, the only way to escape suffering is to detach. Rationalizing is my detachment. To me, the only way to stop getting hurt like a girl is to stop thinking like one. It's cool, though, I have a few spiritually romantic friends that keep me in check.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/12/2009 6:53:35 PM
Author: Pandora II
Julie, there are a few red flags that your posts threw up for me.


A book you might find an interesting read is ''Women Who Love Too Much'' - it was an eye-opener for me as a now-cured Florence Nightingale type!

hey, Pandora, I value your opinion (and think you''re a great poster!) Would you elaborate on the red flags?

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/12/2009 5:10:03 PM
Author: Vani
It''s worth remembering that sometimes people take for granted what they can get too easily. Knowing you really, really like him when he doesn''t feel quite the same might make him feel a bit... overwhelmed. Pulling back a little emotionally, being a little less willing and available, being open to dating others, might make him think carefully and decide one way or another how he really feels about you.


Note that I am NOT advocating game-playing. Just guarding yourself a little.

Solid advice. It''s not game playing at all. Being oneself, without compromise of one''s standards, is not a strategy, but a goal.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/12/2009 5:53:39 PM
Author: blueroses
It''s totally subjective, but I''d have to say no. There are some people who truly make these choices slowly, and then there are others who are self-protective to the point of not letting others get close at all, and those who can''t be honest and say, ''No, I''m not interested,'' and think they''re being kinder by being vague. The only significant person I dated between my ex and my wonderful BF was the second option: a guy who said very similar things to yours-- he ''moved slowly.'' That ended up being code for ''not gonna happen.'' He was only able to get so far--and then the wall went up.


So.....you''ve put it out there and been clear. (Good for you.) I''d let it be. Don''t wait--life is short.

hey, blueroses! I''m glad it''s working out well with you and your BF.

 

[Treasure43]

Just my .02, but it doesn''t sound like he''s really that into you (not trying to be mean). I''ve seen it time and time again that men will do ANYTHING to be with a woman if they really want to be with her. They won''t want to wait and see if things develop. I could be wrong, he could be the exception to the rule, but the fact that you feel so strongly about him yet say you think he finds you lacking in some manner to be his girlfriend (or adored) is a red flag to me. I have a close friend who is in a similar situation with a guy that is CLEARLY not ready for a relationship. He, however, has made it clear to her that he is not ready for a relationship but she continues to hold out hope.

I''m notsaying it''s not possible but just don''t close yourself off to a great guy who IS ready to be with you. You want a guy who is THRILLED to be with you and adores you. You deserve it. Good luck with whatever you choose to do

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/12/2009 7:29:02 PM
Author: Treasure43
Just my .02, but it doesn't sound like he's really that into you (not trying to be mean). I've seen it time and time again that men will do ANYTHING to be with a woman if they really want to be with her. They won't want to wait and see if things develop. I could be wrong, he could be the exception to the rule, but the fact that you feel so strongly about him yet say you think he finds you lacking in some manner to be his girlfriend (or adored) is a red flag to me. I have a close friend who is in a similar situation with a guy that is CLEARLY not ready for a relationship. He, however, has made it clear to her that he is not ready for a relationship but she continues to hold out hope.


I'm notsaying it's not possible but just don't close yourself off to a great guy who IS ready to be with you. You want a guy who is THRILLED to be with you and adores you. You deserve it. Good luck with whatever you choose to do

hey, treasure, no worries, that's not mean at all, it's troof. I'm not saying that he finds me me so deficient that I can't be his girlfriend, I'm saying that he is not sure if my good parts cover the bad parts. I'm not holding out hope for something that can't be, I'm hoping for something that could be. During our talk, he made a point to say that he has explicitly told other girls that they stood no chance, and that my case was not the same as that.

I've never actually had the experience of a man doing somewhat extraordinary things to be with me. At least, not in the initial stages. I've heard about such things, but have never actually experienced them. Even the OTHER guy has been sitting on his hands for the better part of the last three months. But we'll see how things go with him.

 

[Treasure43]

Date: 5/12/2009 7:51:11 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 5/12/2009 7:29:02 PM
Author: Treasure43
Just my .02, but it doesn''t sound like he''s really that into you (not trying to be mean). I''ve seen it time and time again that men will do ANYTHING to be with a woman if they really want to be with her. They won''t want to wait and see if things develop. I could be wrong, he could be the exception to the rule, but the fact that you feel so strongly about him yet say you think he finds you lacking in some manner to be his girlfriend (or adored) is a red flag to me. I have a close friend who is in a similar situation with a guy that is CLEARLY not ready for a relationship. He, however, has made it clear to her that he is not ready for a relationship but she continues to hold out hope.


I''m notsaying it''s not possible but just don''t close yourself off to a great guy who IS ready to be with you. You want a guy who is THRILLED to be with you and adores you. You deserve it. Good luck with whatever you choose to do

hey, treasure, no worries, that''s not mean at all, it''s troof. I''m not saying that he finds me me so deficient that I can''t be his girlfriend, I''m saying that he is not sure if my good parts cover the bad parts. I''m not holding out hope for something that can''t be, I''m hoping for something that could be. During our talk, he made a point to say that he has explicitly told other girls that they stood no chance, and that my case was not the same as that.

I''ve never actually had the experience of a man doing somewhat extraordinary things to be with me. At least, not in the initial stages. I''ve heard about such things, but have never actually experienced them. Even the OTHER guy has been sitting on his hands for the better part of the last three months. But we''ll see how things go with him.

Maybe it''s just me but the bolded part is a bit of a red flag. If he''s not sure of that, then he doesn''t deserve you. Everyone has flaws and the person you love with love you and accept you unconditionally for the wonderful person that you are. You shouldn''t have to wait for him to discover that you''re worth it. And you also shouldn''t have to prove that you''re worth it.

Maybe it''s like you said, you''ve never experienced having a man do something extraordinary but TRUST ME, it''s worth it. Until I met FF, I''d never had a guy do anything like that. He accepts and loves me for who I am, flaws and all. And has always done whatever it takes to make it clear that he wants to be with me. There was no beating around the bush. When you find the right guy, he WILL do anything to be with you. It''s worth waiting for. I''ve been in your position but only when I refused to settle and let love come to me that I found FF

 

[blueroses]

Thanks so much, JulieN!! It''s wonderful to be on the LIW list and feel wonderful (rather than stricken) about it this time!

The "good parts covering the bad parts" line struck me too. I agree that someone weighing your strengths/weaknesses like that isn''t a good sign. BUT...maybe it isn''t that?

 

[JulieN]

well, those are my words, not his. he never even said anything like that, it''s just what I assume. and while he''s warned me not to assume with him, I don''t think I''m making any faulty assumptions. The only other reasonable explanations are he moves really slowly, or he has walls. The first, he has already admitted to, and the last he has given me no reason to believe that is the case.

Not sure why it''s a red flag, though... being aware, to me, is to take stock of the situation often.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/12/2009 7:05:24 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 5/12/2009 6:53:35 PM
Author: Pandora II
Julie, there are a few red flags that your posts threw up for me.


A book you might find an interesting read is ''Women Who Love Too Much'' - it was an eye-opener for me as a now-cured Florence Nightingale type!

hey, Pandora, I value your opinion (and think you''re a great poster!) Would you elaborate on the red flags?

After getting the news, I''ve definitely been moving more towards The Rules with respect to The Adored One. He is amazing, after all.. I adore someone for who he is, not for what he does for/to me. Unfortunately, I do sense a little bit of a nursing/mothering instinct in me, and I''ve always been a bit of a people pleaser. damn. I want to ease away his worries and fill his heart with peace, and hopefully to get some feelings of adoration in return. Rules is really my only option at this point, lest he get disgusted by the depth of my feelings. Gotta respect myself FIRST.


BIG RED FLAG! There are others in your other posts of the same ilk, but this really jumped off the page at me!

I spent years in terrible relationships wanting to help men do exactly this. Why? Because it was what I really needed someone to do for me, and rather than admit that to myself it was easier to concentrate on someone elses problems.

What I learnt from that book is that certain kinds of men will realise from very subtle sub-concious signals that you send out that you are prepared to give them an easy ride and these kind of men with be attracted to you because of it. IT IS NOT GOOD NEWS FOR YOU.

Self-esteem has to come from within, and you need to learn to love yourself more - then you will attract the sort of men who will give you what you are really looking for, only it won''t be someone ''saving you'' or ''making you happy'' - it will be both of you being there for each other with love and respect and making each other happy because it''s what matters to you both.

I LOVE being married to a man who doesn''t need me to save him, run his life, make his emptyness go away etc etc - and the man I married comes from a broken home, had a lot of trouble at school, a terrible relationship with his father so he had many of the background features of the men I used to love to nurse - but he sorted them out for himself and I''m not expected to pay the price for them.

I really think you could benefit from taking the time to examine why you want to put yourself second. It''s not easy, but the results are worth it. I was given the book I recommended by a friend who was worried about my relationship choices and it helped me for many years. Everytime I felt my self attracted towards ''Little Boy Lost'' I would go home and read it and remind myself why this would be a dangerous attraction for me.

I spent a few years in therapy as well - my therapist even encouraged me to date a guy who I wasn''t interested in but who was crazy about me, as she said it would be good for me to be with someone who liked me more than I liked them. I was horrified at just how badly I could end up treating someone who spent all their time trying to ''save me'', in fact doing all the things that I had done with former BFs - I''d come home to find my hoiuse tidied, little notes and gifts everywhere and it drove me NUTS. I realised you need equality and respect on both sides, not one person trying to show how much they love you in the hope that you will give them some crumbs in return!

I also learnt how hard it can be to be in a relationship that is healthy - if feels very wrong and uncomfortable at the beginning. To use the analogy that the book uses - you are used to dancing the tango and now you''ve got to suddenly learn the waltz... it''s hard and the steps don''t come easily and it doesn''t feel as dangerous and exciting as the tango, but once you get the hang of it, it''s much less exhausting and more comfortable. Relationships should feel the same way...

Hope that explains things a bit...

 

[lexychoo]

I haven''t read all the replies here yet, but from my short dating history I have never dated anyone who I couldn''t see myself marrying. It is a waste of time. You could be using that time for someone who''s actually interested in long-term commitments.

 

[Treasure43]

Date: 5/12/2009 9:32:28 PM
Author: JulieN
well, those are my words, not his. he never even said anything like that, it''s just what I assume. and while he''s warned me not to assume with him, I don''t think I''m making any faulty assumptions. The only other reasonable explanations are he moves really slowly, or he has walls. The first, he has already admitted to, and the last he has given me no reason to believe that is the case.

Not sure why it''s a red flag, though... being aware, to me, is to take stock of the situation often.

JulieN, I''m glad those are your words and NOT his. However, I would talk to him and find out what EXACTLY is causing him to not be ready. Does he just really move slowly, has he recently been hurt, is he not ready for a relationship, or is he really trying to figure out if your good parts outweigh your bad parts.

It''s a red flag because you don''t deserve to be with someone who isn''t willing to accept your flaws and who you feel you need to prove that your good parts outweigh your bad parts to. It''s just not a healthy way to start out a relationship. My experience has been that ususally at the beginning of a relationship, the guy tends to put in a lot of effort and sometimes that effort descreases a little bit over time. However, that''s not always the case.

It seems to me like you may need some time to spend some time with your fabulous self until you find someone who loves the you that you are NOW! I wouldn''t accept anything less. No woman should!

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/13/2009 1:44:55 PM
Author: Treasure43

Date: 5/12/2009 9:32:28 PM
Author: JulieN
well, those are my words, not his. he never even said anything like that, it''s just what I assume. and while he''s warned me not to assume with him, I don''t think I''m making any faulty assumptions. The only other reasonable explanations are he moves really slowly, or he has walls. The first, he has already admitted to, and the last he has given me no reason to believe that is the case.

Not sure why it''s a red flag, though... being aware, to me, is to take stock of the situation often.

JulieN, I''m glad those are your words and NOT his. However, I would talk to him and find out what EXACTLY is causing him to not be ready. Does he just really move slowly, has he recently been hurt, is he not ready for a relationship, or is he really trying to figure out if your good parts outweigh your bad parts.

I disagree with this. You two aren''t in a relationship. The odd date here and there does not make a relationship. He doesn''t owe you an explanation at all. You owe it to yourself to find a way to be happy, and instead of wasting your time on "The Adored One" who obviously doesn''t adore you back, spend time making yourself happy.


It''s cheesy as anything, but the phrase "Don''t make somebody a priority who only makes you an option," is running through my head.

 

[JulieN]

Update: Had a somewhat serious talk with the other guy about what I''m looking for. He replied positively, and we have a Scrabble date tomorrow.

 

[sammyj]

Date: 5/13/2009 4:00:42 PM
Author: JulieN
Update: Had a somewhat serious talk with the other guy about what I''m looking for. He replied positively, and we have a Scrabble date tomorrow.

You know what, Julie, I don''t think you need our advice. You seem like a smart girl with a good head on your shoulders and you''re thinking about yourself first. A Scrabble date sounds fantastic. I''ve received a Scrabble board for two different Christmases (from 2 different boyfriends) and I own the movie Word Wars. Maybe we should go on a date?

 

[tlh]

You should cheat at scrabble and spell out something naughty

...OR INNOCENT.. like.

D-O-Y-O-U-L-I-K-E-M-E
I-L-I-K-E-Y-O-U

 

[FrekeChild]

Wait, you''ve been single for months but were talking about how your BF likes to cuddle on April 21st and how he speaks Italian in his sleep on the 14th?

Color me confused.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/13/2009 9:01:49 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Wait, you''ve been single for months but were talking about how your BF likes to cuddle on April 21st and how he speaks Italian in his sleep on the 14th?


Color me confused.

those were answers to really general, fun questions posted in Hangout, like incompatibility with a SO, or if SO talks in his sleep. I used "he," not "my bf," and I didn''t care to exactly state my relationship with a pronoun.

 

[mrscushion]

Date: 5/13/2009 4:33:48 PM
Author: sammyj

Date: 5/13/2009 4:00:42 PM
Author: JulieN
Update: Had a somewhat serious talk with the other guy about what I''m looking for. He replied positively, and we have a Scrabble date tomorrow.

You know what, Julie, I don''t think you need our advice. You seem like a smart girl with a good head on your shoulders and you''re thinking about yourself first.

Over the course of this thread, that''s the impression I''ve gotten, too.

Have fun on your scrabble date! I''ve never had one, but I''d love to!