Was it just me?
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Cehrabehra
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Relaxing is good for everyone involvedDate: 4/21/2007 9:55:41 PM
Author: lienTN
Cehra, thanks for yr reply and suggestions.
Maybe I did have less than realistic expectations of these people, but pls see what I said above about kids (maybe in the future, I will specify if we didn''t want kids around). And I did tell them that I was going to serve the main course, only to turn around and have them all wandered off. And we''d had the same exact people round before and I don''t remember having the same issues.
Mmmhmm, on the 1 to 2 hours to start eating after arrival, is that the same for everyone else? I''d really like to know, as everywhere we go to, it is usually half an hour or so.
We do have different kinds of parties, some more casual than others. Sometimes though, I just think it''s nice to have a slightly more formal dinner party. Some of our friends do this also and we really appreciate being able to dress up and eat with nice ''stuff'' and being a bit ''different''.
Yes, I do agree that being an hour late is appalling, esp. when they don''t call or sms beforehand to let us know.
Again, I agree that I should learn to relax a bit more.
It could be less time for some, but when we get together with friends it is generally for several hours and we want a lot of BS time to talk and whatever, sometimes we feed the kids first (everyone has kids in our circle) and I always do stuff that is made ahead or has quick easy prep like grilling some chicken and serving it with salad that is premade or serving soup. As for the smoking during mealtime, one of things I do is avoid smokers. I know that sounds horrible, and it is even worse if you know that I smoked for like 15 years and still occasionally binge on them and my husband smokes. But if I''m around smokers then I smoke and my dh doesn''t smoke at home, just on work breaks or other rare occasions, and I just don''t want to have to deal with any of the stuff that goes with smoking LOL Plus I hate the smell. Now where did I put my embrace hypocrisy bumper sticker? I do daydream about having this perfect dinner party someday, but the attempts I made years ago were miserable failures for the same reasons you listed, people flaked out, were so late, just didn''t follow the rules I had in my head for how things should go and I haven''t bothered to attempt for like way over 10 years to try again. I was so disappointed... I guess that''s why I said it was you, because I know that since I just let it all go I and my guests have a way better time anyway LOL
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Kaleigh, thank you for your kind and comforting words, and thank you to everyone else too. At least I know it wasn''t just me, at least not totally anyway. I was beginning to think that I am maybe too stuck up. It doesn''t help that hubby is sooooooo laid back, nothing ever bothers him. But that''s one of the reasons why I love him.
Oh oh, should I shy away from you then?Date: 4/21/2007 10:11:11 PM
Author: lienTN
Kaleigh, thank you for your kind and comforting words, and thank you to everyone else too. At least I know it wasn't just me, at least not totally anyway. I was beginning to think that I am maybe too stuck up. It doesn't help that hubby is sooooooo laid back, nothing ever bothers him. But that's one of the reasons why I love him.
Take a break and come look at my soon-to-be violet beauty.
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Lumpkin, thanks for your reply and sharing your experiences.
I agree with you and Cehra that when we go to other peoples' homes, we try not to "commit the offences" that we (or rather I) dislike.
It's hilarious abt yr guests re-arranging their place cards! Mind you, maybe it was funny for you at the time (?).
When it comes to parents, I am usually not to fussed about time, but they are punctual mot of the time. Well, actually, we now live away from both sets of parents and they are older and don't travel so often any more, so it is us visiting them rather than vice versa.
Isn't that rather appaling abt yr guest telling you how to cook the brisket? I wouldn't be too pleased if someone coming to our home was to tell me or my hubby how to cook our food.
It is a shame, IMHO, that some people don't entertain formally, but each to his/ her own.
It's interesting what you mention about Americans not entertaining formally. My hubby is American and when we travel back, it is true that most meals are casual affairs (I have learnt that Americans and Aussies, or at least those we know, do wicked barbecues - something I've never been able to master), but we do have formal sit-down dinners, particularly when we go to their country club, and everyone is expected to be on time.
It is a lesson learnt on my part not to have unrealistic expectations of everyone.
I agree with you and Cehra that when we go to other peoples' homes, we try not to "commit the offences" that we (or rather I) dislike.
It's hilarious abt yr guests re-arranging their place cards! Mind you, maybe it was funny for you at the time (?).
When it comes to parents, I am usually not to fussed about time, but they are punctual mot of the time. Well, actually, we now live away from both sets of parents and they are older and don't travel so often any more, so it is us visiting them rather than vice versa.
Isn't that rather appaling abt yr guest telling you how to cook the brisket? I wouldn't be too pleased if someone coming to our home was to tell me or my hubby how to cook our food.
It is a shame, IMHO, that some people don't entertain formally, but each to his/ her own.
It's interesting what you mention about Americans not entertaining formally. My hubby is American and when we travel back, it is true that most meals are casual affairs (I have learnt that Americans and Aussies, or at least those we know, do wicked barbecues - something I've never been able to master), but we do have formal sit-down dinners, particularly when we go to their country club, and everyone is expected to be on time.
It is a lesson learnt on my part not to have unrealistic expectations of everyone.
Kaleigh
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I am a stickler for being on time, for showing respect to the host that invited me into their home. It''s not about being a snob. It''s about being thoughtful. And curteous. I think this generation needs a bit of a jolt. I am older, well not ancient.
But I would no more do that in someone''s home than fly. But I am the more empathetic type, I''d be in the kitchen with you helping to serve it up. And I''d be the one afterwards to help you clean up the mess.
I really can''t stand selfish people.
I really can''t stand selfish people.
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Linda W
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Lisa, I am with you 100%. That is the way our friends are. DH and I never entertain formally. We always have BBQ''s in the backyard, jump in the pool type of thing. LOL.
Our friends always bring a side dish and always help clean up. We are in our 50''s though, maybe we are getting too laid back.
Linda
Our friends always bring a side dish and always help clean up. We are in our 50''s though, maybe we are getting too laid back.
Linda
diamondfan
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I hate to say this but I am sadly NOT shocked by how rude and clueless people can be. Not that I am not upset or disappointed by it, but nothing surprises me any longer. After I threw a bar mitzvah for my son and dealt with all kinds of crap, I have come to the conclusion that some people are rude or clueless and I let it go since I cannot change them, just my expectations of them.
I am on time unless there is a huge issue out of my control. If my kids are not mentioned I do not bring them. If I were a smoker, I would go outside to smoke so as not to smell up someone''s home, but I would excuse myself so the host knew where I was.
I would bring something, a bottle of wine or something like that, and I would follow suit in terms of shoe removal etc, if my hosts had them off, I would remove mine.
I think it is nice to entertain with your fine crystal and china, and I also love a BBQ, but they are two different types of events and it should be fairly clear when you invite people...(hi, bring the kids, we are putting burgers on, come on over between 2 and 3 etc or we are having a dinner party, dinner will be served at 7:30, please come at 7:00 for cocktails)...I think how you invite people lends some sense to the evening. An open house or cocktail party implies come over within a time frame, a dinner party implies you will all come in around the same time, sit down and eat all together...30 minutes late is just plain silly to me.
I am sorry this happened, and just think twice before you invite them to your home for an elegant evening!
I am on time unless there is a huge issue out of my control. If my kids are not mentioned I do not bring them. If I were a smoker, I would go outside to smoke so as not to smell up someone''s home, but I would excuse myself so the host knew where I was.
I would bring something, a bottle of wine or something like that, and I would follow suit in terms of shoe removal etc, if my hosts had them off, I would remove mine.
I think it is nice to entertain with your fine crystal and china, and I also love a BBQ, but they are two different types of events and it should be fairly clear when you invite people...(hi, bring the kids, we are putting burgers on, come on over between 2 and 3 etc or we are having a dinner party, dinner will be served at 7:30, please come at 7:00 for cocktails)...I think how you invite people lends some sense to the evening. An open house or cocktail party implies come over within a time frame, a dinner party implies you will all come in around the same time, sit down and eat all together...30 minutes late is just plain silly to me.
I am sorry this happened, and just think twice before you invite them to your home for an elegant evening!
lumpkin
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I think you are right. A written invitation seems to get better results because they can refer to the time on the invite. If you call to invite, some people will forget and wonder if it was 6:00 or 6:30. On the invitation you can say dinner will be served promptly at 6:30 or something like that.
We really only host dinners for family and if I were fixing something time sensitive I would simply tell them what I''m serving and ask them to please be on time. I think they would be on time. If it''s casual, we say 1:00 ish. I don''t think you can assume other people know what''s expected, you have to tell them.
Lien, if you have this group over again, I think that''s what you''ll have to do. And if they are more than 15 minutes late, I''d sit down and eat my meal! When they get there an hour late you can say, sorry, dinner''s over. Oh, well, guess you''ll have to order pizza if you''re hungry. And take off your damn shoes!!!
People just don''t get what it takes to put on a dinner unless they''ve done it, so my guess is that some of these people are clueless because they don''t do it themselves. Especially the men. Most of the time it''s the wives/girlfriends who do the lions share of the planning, organizing and work. Once you''ve put together a few parties and know what all goes into it, you have a whole new appreciation for the host.
ladykemma
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Ditto. Also being late for an invited sit down/ formal dinner is very bad form and not on.Date: 4/21/2007 10:48:50 PM
Author: Kaleigh
I am a stickler for being on time, for showing respect to the host that invited me into their home. It''s not about being a snob. It''s about being thoughtful. And curteous. I think this generation needs a bit of a jolt. I am older, well not ancient.But I would no more do that in someone''s home than fly. But I am the more empathetic type, I''d be in the kitchen with you helping to serve it up. And I''d be the one afterwards to help you clean up the mess.
I really can''t stand selfish people.
Cehrabehra
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When I think about this situation there are three things that come to mind....
1. how do *I* behave as a guest?
2. how would I *feel* about guests behaving poorly?
3. how do I fill my shoes as *hostess* the best in any situation?
I think her guests behaved poorly plus. I know I really only addressed the OP but I do agree that they were top notch rude twits in every way! Such a disappointment! I make every effort to be on time and be aware of my surroundings. I admit I would probably bring my kids unless otherwise specified because it wouldn''t really occur to me not to. We''re kind of a unit.
So that takes care of #1 and #2 above...
Which leaves #3 - the issue I find the most interesting and helpful to discuss. I think that no matter HOW poorly the guests behave, it is our duty as a hostess to accommodate them. Eating without them (however much we can justify it) is spiteful and rude. There is no sense in stooping to their level. You''re the hostess, they''re your guests. If you don''t like their behavior, don''t invite them back. But using their rudeness as an excuse to be rude yourself is definitely not in keeping with the formalities indicated in a situation like this. You can and *should* speak your preferences about shoes and smoking in the house, and you can insert humor and wit as gentle reminders on how you wish for people to behave. But draw the line at actually *expecting* these other adults (or their children) to behave as you think they should. It is wise to set guidelines, but it is also wise to let go of the way you think things should be and accept the way things are.
My inlaws are mexican and my family is white. They are laid back, we are uptight. For them anything goes, for us there are rules. All of my dinner parties up until 2002 SUCKED LOL I was a conductor, everything had to be just so. I aspired to this martha stewart mentality where my guests were led (if not pushed) into certain roles and expectancies of behavior etc. The food would be great but I was always disappointed in how people behaved and I was always so busy being this mad conductor "everyone needs drinks now, everyone needs soup now, everyone needs to be done now" etc. that I never enjoyed myself and I don''t really know that anyone else did either.
Then my husband was graduating from college and his ENTIRE family came up and some of mine, and our friends and we all had this weekend long party at our house and my mother in law and sisters in law took over my kitchen and I kept repeating this mantra, "just let it go, you can fix what they mess up in your kitchen when they leave, just let it go, just let it go..." LOL So I''m doing this and that and everyone''s laughing and drinking and eating and chaos is reigning and friends are coming over and mingling and everyone is cooking and chasing kids and my mother in law says the single best piece of advice I''ve *ever* gotten about entertaining and it has changed how I do things. She said to me, "Sara, anyone you''re close enough to to invite over for a party at your house, is close enough to you to come early and help you prepare for it." and something just resounded in me.... and since then I don''t have everything all done when people arrive - I''ve found that people ENJOY having a task to do, it gives them something to get busy and an excuse to talk to and meet and mingle with other guests, and not only do I have a much better time just hanging out and not worrying about how things turn out or how I''ve conducted them, but everyone else has a much better more relaxed time just BEING together and nothing has to be perfect.
My SIL (whom I went to kinder with and have known forEVER) once said as she was getting my nephew ready for a party when he was little years ago, "you know how those (white people) are - they always have to start their parties on time" and I was SO offended and I didn''t get this and was kinda pissed at her for the generalization etc. but over the years I''ve reflected on it and it is SOOOOO true LOL The invites for parties my kids get are like "from 2-4" or whatever and everyone is expected on time, you are shuffled and entertained for an alloted period of time, and then sent on your way promptly. Mexican kid birthday parties are on "saturday" and you just show up whenever. Maybe you missed the pinata, but you didn''t miss the cake, or maybe you came early and helped cook and got first dibs on the food but had to leave early, maybe you stayed all day.... so the last several years our party invites say "12-12" and people don''t know what to do with that!! But they''re learning...
Some people come at 7pm and stay until 10:30 and others come at 11am and leave at 3pm and others come at 2pm and stay until 8pm. Its awesome and I get the best feedback on it!
lumpkin
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Cehrabehra
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I wasn''t sure LOL I *totally* would think it too.... I''d even think about ignoring my better judgment and do it anyway haha.... Maybe a part of me was hoping you really would do it just so the little horned devil lurking within me could live vicariously and still allow me to stick my nose in the air and say oh well I''d never do *that*Date: 4/22/2007 4:10:03 PM
Author: lumpkin
Could you not tell I was kidding???!!!! I would never actually do that, but I''d sure think it.
I have to put embrace hyporcisy in my sigline now ROFL!!!!
lumpkin
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I have to admit I might not wait for more than 1/2 hour, though, if everyone else was there and hungry. Not hospitable to the rest. But I would keep the late person''s food warm. I truly wouldn''t ever tell them they had to order in, but I really would think about it, LOL! OMG, what if they had had a wreck or something? I''d feel terrible if I''d been spiteful. I even feel a little guilty now, and I haven''t even had a party and my guests are hypothetical! ROTFL!Date: 4/22/2007 5:33:38 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
I wasn''t sure LOL I *totally* would think it too.... I''d even think about ignoring my better judgment and do it anyway haha.... Maybe a part of me was hoping you really would do it just so the little horned devil lurking within me could live vicariously and still allow me to stick my nose in the air and say oh well I''d never do *that*
kcoursolle
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I went to a birthday party the other night at an expensive restaurant. The couple was 20 minutes late to their own party!!! Being late is just really really common now. We threw a party recently with 8pm on the reservations and we were sitting there at 10pm with still no one there. Finally, a whole bunch of people showed up around 10:15. We were worried that nobody was coming. From now on, I''d just expect people to be late and I wouldn''t heat things up until everyone is already there.
The smoking thing you really can''t do anything about, I''d just be happy they went outside at all. It was rude of them to not ask about the shoes. If I were you from now on I''d politely ask them to please take them off. Of just say when people come in, "We usually wear just our socks here, hope you don''t mind."...or something like that.
The smoking thing you really can''t do anything about, I''d just be happy they went outside at all. It was rude of them to not ask about the shoes. If I were you from now on I''d politely ask them to please take them off. Of just say when people come in, "We usually wear just our socks here, hope you don''t mind."...or something like that.
surfgirl
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They sound incredibly rude to me and I''d be as bugged as you were. The easy solution is to not invite them over again. And when inviting people with kids, I''d invite them and say "we''d love for you and Jim to come over for dinner one evening, how much lead time do you need for a babysitter?" That''s about the only way to say "no kids" nicely. And I hear you on the kids
Cehrabehra
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You know, after reading this thread I can definitely see why there is often a line between those with kids and those without and how sometimes it becomes difficult to stay friends once one couple has crossed to the dark side. My best friend is single no kids and we''ve been friends for decades literally and her last close childless friend is having her first the end of this month and my friend is so bummed. I remember when I got married I was one of the first, I was so young... and within a year or two I didn''t have many single friends left, except my best friend and when it comes to socializing with people who don''t want kids around I generally distance myself from them. Not that an adult evening out isn''t lovely, but there is something I cannot articulate that bugs me if kids are not welcome... not that wanting to get away from them is any better, but I can relate to *that* LOLDate: 4/23/2007 12:08:04 PM
Author: surfgirl
They sound incredibly rude to me and I''d be as bugged as you were. The easy solution is to not invite them over again. And when inviting people with kids, I''d invite them and say ''we''d love for you and Jim to come over for dinner one evening, how much lead time do you need for a babysitter?'' That''s about the only way to say ''no kids'' nicely. And I hear you on the kids
FireGoddess
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I think some people just have no manners. I am very conscientious of people''s ''stuff'' and how I would want people to treat my stuff when they come over. As for kids, most of my friends are starting to have them or think about it. One already does. However, I want to see her daughter so I like it when they bring the kids along. I just try to put the breakables away.
Your friends were quite late - for a dinner party, 45 minutes is more than ''fashionably'' late and if it were me I would have called to let the person know. However, I have friends that still have quite a bit of cooking to do even after the guests arrive, so I think it''s more of a case by case thing - know which people are lax and which are prompt.
Your friends were quite late - for a dinner party, 45 minutes is more than ''fashionably'' late and if it were me I would have called to let the person know. However, I have friends that still have quite a bit of cooking to do even after the guests arrive, so I think it''s more of a case by case thing - know which people are lax and which are prompt.
Allisonfaye
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As the guests, they should've proactively asked you if they could bring their child. I'd never dream of bringing my kids to someone's dinner party (casual or not) unless they specifically asked me to. As for their tardiness without an apology....45 min - 1 hour is significantly late in my book. They should've at least called you to let you know about it.
Re: wandering off for a smoke right when dinner was announced is pretty inconsiderate and tactless. Then again, they might be the more casual types where everything is easy-come, easy-go. If they are that type, I guess you'd need to build that into your expectations. Not everyone is perceptive enough to realize that they're at a formal event -- they might not have known to be on their best behavior.
Tromping mud all over the brand-new floors....as a guest, I would've been very sensitive to that and made sure to do my part to keep the pristine floors clean. But again, some people walk around with their heads in the clouds and simply aren't thinking. It's hard, but try not to be too shy as the hostess -- if you want them to follow the no-shoes rule, make that clear as soon as they walk in the door. (Unless, of course, someone is adamant about not taking theirs off....everyone's got their little issues!)
I've never hosted a formal dinner at my house (I don't even own fine china), but I would guess that hostessing formal dinners is really hard, because you put so much work into it and have high expectations of those around you. Some expectations are worth lowering, because things usually go wrong in that department, i.e. floors usually don't stay clean regardless of whether shoes are worn, or loutish behavior from people who aren't as refined.
Maybe next time, send out a formal invitation (lets the guests know that this is a formal event -- no farting around and being late, and no kids.) The event time would be clearly printed out: "Cocktails at 5pm. Dinner will be served at 7pm." Maybe your guests will be better behaved next time!
Re: wandering off for a smoke right when dinner was announced is pretty inconsiderate and tactless. Then again, they might be the more casual types where everything is easy-come, easy-go. If they are that type, I guess you'd need to build that into your expectations. Not everyone is perceptive enough to realize that they're at a formal event -- they might not have known to be on their best behavior.
Tromping mud all over the brand-new floors....as a guest, I would've been very sensitive to that and made sure to do my part to keep the pristine floors clean. But again, some people walk around with their heads in the clouds and simply aren't thinking. It's hard, but try not to be too shy as the hostess -- if you want them to follow the no-shoes rule, make that clear as soon as they walk in the door. (Unless, of course, someone is adamant about not taking theirs off....everyone's got their little issues!)
I've never hosted a formal dinner at my house (I don't even own fine china), but I would guess that hostessing formal dinners is really hard, because you put so much work into it and have high expectations of those around you. Some expectations are worth lowering, because things usually go wrong in that department, i.e. floors usually don't stay clean regardless of whether shoes are worn, or loutish behavior from people who aren't as refined.
Maybe next time, send out a formal invitation (lets the guests know that this is a formal event -- no farting around and being late, and no kids.) The event time would be clearly printed out: "Cocktails at 5pm. Dinner will be served at 7pm." Maybe your guests will be better behaved next time!
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Thanks, everyone, for yr input and suggestions.
Whilst it is true that these guests were less than well-mannered, I have calmed down considerably since last weekend
. It is good too to listen to objective voices.
I'll tell you two things though: 1) I need to learn to relax a bit more and 2) we'll think very hard before inviting these people back into our home again.
Whilst it is true that these guests were less than well-mannered, I have calmed down considerably since last weekend
I'll tell you two things though: 1) I need to learn to relax a bit more and 2) we'll think very hard before inviting these people back into our home again.
bujiatang
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My parents are consistantly late, so I am punctual so as to not become my parents. It drives me mad.
When having folks over for dinner, since most of my friends like to cook, I''ll have them over 45 minutes before dinner is finished and have them in the kitchen as we finish preparing the meal. Of course the heavy lifting is done before they ever arrive the dish washer is run and the counters wiped down, the idea is to make it appear effortless. This also allows for stragglers.
Your guests'' behavior was appalling because it sounds like they weren''t prepared to have a fancy dinner but rather a more casual dinner. maybe next time have these folks over for a kegger. If they show up wearing ties you''ll know they come from Mars.
When having folks over for dinner, since most of my friends like to cook, I''ll have them over 45 minutes before dinner is finished and have them in the kitchen as we finish preparing the meal. Of course the heavy lifting is done before they ever arrive the dish washer is run and the counters wiped down, the idea is to make it appear effortless. This also allows for stragglers.
Your guests'' behavior was appalling because it sounds like they weren''t prepared to have a fancy dinner but rather a more casual dinner. maybe next time have these folks over for a kegger. If they show up wearing ties you''ll know they come from Mars.
Tacori E-ring
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I *HATE* it when people are late. I make a real effort to be on time and since it was a dinner party think they should have made an effort too! I can''t believe no one said they were sorry! Then to make YOU wait on dinner while they smoked! I feel so bad for you. The whole night sounded horrible and I don''t blame you for not wanting to invite them over again! I rarely go to people''s houses that ask us to take off our shoes nor do I ask my guests too but it is your right. If you want a no shoe policy that is fine but I am not sure it is fair to expect your guests to know unless you are close friends.
So sorry you had to go through all of it with no appreciation.No it was no you at all.If they are your friends that you want to keep in touch with then if it were me I would not invite them for any dinners inside.Just go out to a restaurant with them.They were very rude and not respectful of your time and efford.Must have been hard on you now the best is just to forget it al as soon as possible.( easily said I know)
Cehrabehra
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the last part of this cracked me up
The middle part is how we do it also... I madly clean the house so everything is spotless, but before the guests come I place a few "clutter" things around so they can feel comfortable. Years ago on an email loop I have we discussed whether or not you''re more comfortable going into a totally spotless house or a totally messy house and EVERYONE without exception said they liked messy houses better, not gross messy, but just totally lived in because the spotless houses were very difficult to feel comfortable in, like you shouldn''t put your glass down or whatever and I know I used to have my house spotless for guests and they were kinda stiff so I started taking things out and laying them around so the house looked like it lived in and I found people came in and were more comfortable to put their purse down or their drink and just *relax*! Anyway the way you worded it - to appear effortless - is exactly it. "oh yes, we''re such clean people the house is always clean even when it looks lived in" ::giggle::Lien, I wonder how many kilometres you are living from me?
The only friends I will invite for dinner know if they are late, will have their butts kicked downstairs to eat with the dog. They also know if they walk around the garden and bring dirt back into the house, they will be wielding a mop and bucket.
Everyone''s scared of this Ang Moh Chaboh Tao Hong.
Aaaaaaaah, who ask you to go and invite boh kah see ang moh to you house???????
hahahahahahhahhahahahahah just kidding of course.
Your home is your temple, life is too short, try not to fill your abode with negative emotions/ vibes it will eat into your good Feng Shui.
LOL
The only friends I will invite for dinner know if they are late, will have their butts kicked downstairs to eat with the dog. They also know if they walk around the garden and bring dirt back into the house, they will be wielding a mop and bucket.
Everyone''s scared of this Ang Moh Chaboh Tao Hong.
Aaaaaaaah, who ask you to go and invite boh kah see ang moh to you house???????
hahahahahahhahhahahahahah just kidding of course.
Your home is your temple, life is too short, try not to fill your abode with negative emotions/ vibes it will eat into your good Feng Shui.
LOL
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Engagement Ring Boxes: A Guide to the Best Vendors and Their Signature Packaging
Engagement Ring Boxes: A Guide to the Best Vendors and Their Signature Packaging - 02/19
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