Well, I’ve had the vaccine, anyone else?

[whitewave]

Yes, the science has been around a long time, and the vaccine injury compensation program has paid out more than $4 billion in damages and only a fraction of injuries are ever even filed for since most people don’t know about it. Let me be clear that I am in favor of safe, effective vaccines. But some can be lethal to certain people and I know people who’ve been disabled. In the case of the Pfizer vaccine, they’ve already come out with a warning for certain people not to take it. That’s a good start. But it probably wasn’t so great for the people who had the problems to find that out. The people recruited for the trials were mostly healthy. So it remains to be seen who might have problems. I research everything I buy and that goes especially for what I put into my body. I hope this works and that not a single person has a severe adverse effect. I’ll be watching and waiting to see both aspects.

I’m definitely paying attention as well...

 

[LightBright]

do you have enough of those special freezers ?
ours are only coming this week

I know of a biological research lab in rural Colorado that donated its subzero freezers to the County health department for Vaccine storage.

So governments are getting creative about how they will achieve the storage requirement.

Los Angeles County just announced they will be getting 84,000 doses next week! I‘m guessing they will prioritize frontline healthcare and other at risk populations.

 

[m-cubed]

They didn‘t say! I’m assuming after the second dose??

So this is a two-pronged question. Most people who have been vaccinated will be protected from developing disease relatively quickly. HOWEVER, what we don’t know yet is whether the vaccine induces sterilizing immunity (totally stops viral replication so virus can’t get a hold in your body). So it’s possible vaccinated people may become asymptomatically infected and spread disease. Until the majority of people have been vaccinated, those individuals who have gotten the vaccine still need To be careful, mask up and stay distanced to protect others.

 

[m-cubed]

...and APPROVED, 17-4 with one abstaining
YAY!

That was a vote of the advisory committee. The FDA has not yet granted the EUA (though i expect that will happen this weekend).

 

[m-cubed]

All of the Pfizer data is public. The FDA specifically indicated that adverse effects from vaccines are expected to start and be identified within 6 weeks. The interim trial data was analyzed at median follow up time of 2 months so as to catch those adverse events. In the trial population (which did exclude people with a known history of severe reactions to vaccines - note those people are generally advised not to get additional vaccines so would make sense to exclude them), the safety profile was excellent. Typical side effects were soreness, fatigue, muscle pain, fever, etc. The only ”severe adverse effect” observed that the FDA thought was likely caused by the vaccine was low frequency of enlarged lymph nodes. Now when we give this vaccine to literally hundreds of millions of people, will there be some incredibly rare adverse event for a few? Probably. I am willing to take the risk of a 1 in a million event from the vaccine versus the 1-2 in 100 chance I will die if I get COVID.

In conclusion, bring on the vaccine!

 

[MMtwo]

That was a vote of the advisory committee. The FDA has not yet granted the EUA (though i expect that will happen this weekend).

Thanks m-cubed

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

So this is a two-pronged question. Most people who have been vaccinated will be protected from developing disease relatively quickly. HOWEVER, what we don’t know yet is whether the vaccine induces sterilizing immunity (totally stops viral replication so virus can’t get a hold in your body). So it’s possible vaccinated people may become asymptomatically infected and spread disease. Until the majority of people have been vaccinated, those individuals who have gotten the vaccine still need To be careful, mask up and stay distanced to protect others.

thank you for pointing this out
i naturally assumed all would be well and good pretty much straight away
i assume when we get vaccinated they will tell us this ??

 

[m-cubed]

thank you for pointing this out
i naturally assumed all would be well and good pretty much straight away
i assume when we get vaccinated they will tell us this ??

I am starting to see some coverage of this in the media, but I’m not sure what the official messaging is on this because I haven’t looked. I sure hope they will. I think there‘s a big risk if they don’t!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I am starting to see some coverage of this in the media, but I’m not sure what the official messaging is on this because I haven’t looked. I sure hope they will. I think there‘s a big risk if they don’t!

this needs to be drumed out to us like the handwashing was at the begining
the vacine isnt here in NZ yet, we have to get the freezers first, but you have been the first to my ears to say this yet the vacine is headline news every day

its no good vaccinating elderly granny if she is going to go out and infect our mums and dads

 

[m-cubed]

this needs to be drumed out to us like the handwashing was at the begining
the vacine isnt here in NZ yet, we have to get the freezers first, but you have been the first to my ears to say this yet the vacine is headline news every day

its no good vaccinating elderly granny if she is going to go out and infect our mums and dads

but don’t you already have the virus under control in NZ? You don’t have much spread to start, so this is unlikely to be as big a problem for you.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

but don’t you already have the virus under control in NZ? You don’t have much spread to start, so this is unlikely to be as big a problem for you.

yes, only cases at the boarder, but procedure is far from perfect with several cases recently of boarder workers getting infected and spreading it around

i was reading today about a case back in Nov or Dec in Italy last year well before their patient zero
no one can relax until we have world wide wide spread vaccination
and the news is full of well off western nations getting in line for the vacine - who's getting the vacine to the developing world and more importantly when ?

 

[ForteKitty]

I know of a biological research lab in rural Colorado that donated its subzero freezers to the County health department for Vaccine storage.

So governments are getting creative about how they will achieve the storage requirement.

Los Angeles County just announced they will be getting 84,000 doses next week! I‘m guessing they will prioritize frontline healthcare and other at risk populations.

84k doses is nothing, unfortunately. Each person needs two doses so it'll only vaccinate 43k people. We have over 10 million residents in LA County.

 

[whitewave]

DH gets his Tuesday night.

 

[Snowdrop13]

DH gets his Tuesday night.

Good news! I’ve had zero symptoms and none of my colleagues have either.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Good news! I’ve had zero symptoms and none of my colleagues have either.

Great news !

 

[whitewave]

I forgot to mention he is getting the Pfizer one as well

 

[OoohShiny]

Peru suspense trials of the Chinese vaccine:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...ends-clinical-trials-of-chinese-covid-vaccine

Peru has temporarily suspended clinical trials of a Covid vaccine made by Chinese drug giant Sinopharm after detecting neurological problems in one of its test volunteers.

The National Institute of Health said Friday that it had decided to interrupt the trial after a volunteer had difficulty moving their arms, according to local media.

"Several days ago we signaled, as we are required, to the regulatory authorities that one of our participants (in trials) presented neurological symptoms which could correspond to a condition called Guillain-Barre syndrome," said chief researcher German Malaga in comments to the press.


Guillain-Barre syndrome is a rare and non-contagious disorder which affects the movement of the arms and legs. Peru declared a temporary health emergency in five regions in June last year following multiple cases.

In the 1970s a campaign to innoculate Americans against a supposedly devastating strain of swine flu ground to a halt after some 450 of those vaccinated developed the syndrome, which can also cause paralysis.

Peru's clinical trials for the Sinopharm vaccine were due to conclude this week, after testing around 12,000 people.

 

[OoohShiny]

All of the Pfizer data is public. The FDA specifically indicated that adverse effects from vaccines are expected to start and be identified within 6 weeks. The interim trial data was analyzed at median follow up time of 2 months so as to catch those adverse events. In the trial population (which did exclude people with a known history of severe reactions to vaccines - note those people are generally advised not to get additional vaccines so would make sense to exclude them), the safety profile was excellent. Typical side effects were soreness, fatigue, muscle pain, fever, etc. The only ”severe adverse effect” observed that the FDA thought was likely caused by the vaccine was low frequency of enlarged lymph nodes. Now when we give this vaccine to literally hundreds of millions of people, will there be some incredibly rare adverse event for a few? Probably. I am willing to take the risk of a 1 in a million event from the vaccine versus the 1-2 in 100 chance I will die if I get COVID.

In conclusion, bring on the vaccine!

May I ask if you are in one of the older age groups with higher Infection Fatality Rates, m-cubed? (I appreciate it is not good form to ask a lady such things lol)

The statistics seem to be indicating >1% IFRs tend to start in the over-60s, IIRC.

Weighing up the risks of each course of action is a great idea and will of course be personal to each individual

 

[OoohShiny]

yes, only cases at the boarder, but procedure is far from perfect with several cases recently of boarder workers getting infected and spreading it around

i was reading today about a case back in Nov or Dec in Italy last year well before their patient zero
no one can relax until we have world wide wide spread vaccination
and the news is full of well off western nations getting in line for the vacine - who's getting the vacine to the developing world and more importantly when ?

I believe that in some places in the developing world the challenges faced daily mean the population demographics are very 'light' in the older age groups, meaning Covid does not affect them so much. This might mean less demand for vaccinations in countries with lower numbers of those in the older generations.

 

[dk168]

@Snowdrop13 I believe I am likely to fall in Band 6 or 7 based on one roll out plan that I have seen in the Times.

DK

 

[m-cubed]

May I ask if you are in one of the older age groups with higher Infection Fatality Rates, m-cubed? (I appreciate it is not good form to ask a lady such things lol)

The statistics seem to be indicating >1% IFRs tend to start in the over-60s, IIRC.

Weighing up the risks of each course of action is a great idea and will of course be personal to each individual

I am 43 with a co-morbidity. Even if I were 20 and completely healthy, I would take this vaccine. IFR is not the only thing to look at - you are completely missing long term impacts in those who do survive.

We do not yet have solid data on whether the vaccines reduce transmission, but that is the hope. As I’ve said before on this board, vaccines protect in two ways. They protect the individual from developing disease and they reduce transmission, protecting others, particularly vulnerable people for whom the vaccine does not work or who cannot take the vaccine because it is medically contra-indicated. We don’t yet have good data on whether these vaccines reduce transmission (and we do need to be careful in our actions until we have more data on this), but that is the hope. If the vaccine(s) do reduce transmission, it will be up to all of us who can get the vaccine to do so.

In my opinion, people (at least in the US) are overall focusing too much on themselves in this pandemic and not enough on others and society. And I will call a spade a spade - I think it’s selfish for those who do not have real medical contraindications to refuse to take the vaccine.

 

[Rons Wolfe]

We'll both be taking our marching orders from my husband's doctor. Hoping we both can take it safely, and soon. Especially him!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@m-cubed where you see selfish people declining a vaccine I see people who are concerned about a new vaccine that was rushed in a very contentious political climate.

I see people who know that if they or their children suffer an adverse reaction they will have no recourse since vaccinating manufacturers are immune from liability.

I see people who know there is a possibility based on their medical history that they may be more at risk of suffering an adverse event even though they do not qualify for a medical exemption.

It’a interesting to me that although people would not generally scoff at someone exercising due diligence before taking medication, they take issue with someone who is hesitant or outright refuses to get a vaccine. Why? Vaccines just like any other medication or medical intervention come with risk and should be approached with some degree of caution.

BTW I don’t expect to change your mind about people that refuse a COVID shot, this is just to provide perspective from someone who is refusing it.

 

[m-cubed]

@m-cubed where you see selfish people declining a vaccine I see people who are concerned about a new vaccine that was rushed in a very contentious political climate.

I see people who know that if they or their children suffer an adverse reaction they will have no recourse since vaccinating manufacturers are immune from liability.

I see people who know there is a possibility based on their medical history that they may be more at risk of suffering an adverse event even though they do not qualify for a medical exemption.

It’a interesting to me that although people would not generally scoff at someone exercising due diligence before taking medication, they take issue with someone who is hesitant or outright refuses to get a vaccine. Why? Vaccines just like any other medication or medical intervention come with risk and should be approached with some degree of caution.

The vaccine was developed with haste, but the safety assessment was not rushed. The Pfizer phase 3 trial involved >43,000 people, with something like 35,000 people at a median follow up time of 2 months used for the main analyses. The data is all publicly available. The vaccine is both safe and effective. Will there be rare adverse events in a larger population? Absolutely. The risk of a rare adverse event is much less than the risk we all face right now from COVID, and we as a society cannot get back to normal if uptake on this vaccine is low. It is selfish if you personally want to dodge the very, very low risk of an adverse event (I am not talking about people with real medical contraindications) but are relying on everyone else to take that risk so that life can go back to normal.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@m-cubed

“Very very low risk of an adverse event”

Very Very low risk until it happens to you or your family member and then those words mean nothing. Look, we can agree to disagree but just know that I am not “dodging” taking this vaccine. It is an informed choice, for us the risk of an adverse event being very very low is simply not acceptable based on previous history with an adverse reaction.

If that makes me selfish then so be it.

 

[Matata]

It’a interesting to me that although people would not generally scoff at someone exercising due diligence before taking medication, they take issue with someone who is hesitant or outright refuses to get a vaccine. Why? Vaccines just like any other medication or medical intervention come with risk and should be approached with some degree of caution.

My perspective is that we're talking about a vaccine in the midst of a pandemic that has caused, is causing, and will cause devastating long-term effects to every level and aspect of society, not the average flu, pneumonia, etc. vaccines.

I see people who know there is a possibility based on their medical history that they may be more at risk of suffering an adverse event even though they do not qualify for a medical exemption.

They are free to weigh the risks. If their adverse reaction to prior vaccines was severe, not life threatening, and recoverable without permanent damage, then I'd hope they get the vaccine.

I would not try to guilt anyone into taking this vaccine even though the continuing risks and consequences of covid will linger longer. However, I don't have much patience for those who refuse to take it based on paranoia, political bias, and any other excuse that is not based on the facts at hand.

 

[Begonia]

I’m sure that means the active bit is contained in a nanoparticle of lipid- I can’t remember much cell biology but as it says it will be in order for it to get through the lipid layers of the cells that will make the spike protein. I think?

Hope all goes well and no side effects! fingers crossed! Jealous of you! Here in Canada, it will take even longer than the USA to get it, so many be 2022? lol. I'm actually crying.

Canadians are getting vaccinated starting this week. Elders and front line workers. Big roll out in spring with majority of our population (who want to get vaccinated) getting 2 doses by September 2021. Vaccinations being done by our Military. The logistics of doing this is staggering, ergo the military.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I believe that in some places in the developing world the challenges faced daily mean the population demographics are very 'light' in the older age groups, meaning Covid does not affect them so much. This might mean less demand for vaccinations in countries with lower numbers of those in the older generations.

That gets sadder the more i think about it

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I am 43 with a co-morbidity. Even if I were 20 and completely healthy, I would take this vaccine. IFR is not the only thing to look at - you are completely missing long term impacts in those who do survive.

We do not yet have solid data on whether the vaccines reduce transmission, but that is the hope. As I’ve said before on this board, vaccines protect in two ways. They protect the individual from developing disease and they reduce transmission, protecting others, particularly vulnerable people for whom the vaccine does not work or who cannot take the vaccine because it is medically contra-indicated. We don’t yet have good data on whether these vaccines reduce transmission (and we do need to be careful in our actions until we have more data on this), but that is the hope. If the vaccine(s) do reduce transmission, it will be up to all of us who can get the vaccine to do so.

In my opinion, people (at least in the US) are overall focusing too much on themselves in this pandemic and not enough on others and society. And I will call a spade a spade - I think it’s selfish for those who do not have real medical contraindications to refuse to take the vaccine.

Your govt has not been raming the 'we're all in this together' and 'be kind ' message down your throats like dare i say, many other countries

 

[m-cubed]

Your govt has not been raming the 'we're all in this together' and 'be kind ' message down your throats like dare i say, many other countries

Agreed, and I certainly think that has been a huge problem. I have seen so much selfish behavior and lack of empathy that I am truly disgusted.