What am I missing... (long)

[Independent Gal]

If this offers any hope (or caution), when I met DH, he was very financially irresponsible. He spent everything he made...mostly frittering it away, had no savings (except what his employer puts into his retirement fund), and was often broke at the end of the month. His parents have always been like that too, and although his mom wears a big fur coat and they always drink the best wines, they haven't (weren't able to?) give us a wedding present presumably because they can't afford to, which is completely fine with me. But the point being: he certainly did NOT learn financial responsibility at home.

His sister, on the other hand, is a natural wiz with money, and has long been on his case.

When we started dating, and I saw his spending habits, I told him that that was really not going to fly. That I could never marry someone if I didn't feel like we could be financially secure together. So, he hunkered down, made a spending / saving plan, figured out where money was oozing away (did he really need to drink Pelegrino instead of tap water?) and set about saving up to get me a beautiful Bulgari ring. For him, this was also meant to be a symbol that he COULD save and be responsible. He saved up enough in 4 or 5 months to get it, with the promise that he would keep saving at the same rate, which he has done. He is now very responsible with his money. Sure, he still pisses away his spending money, but only AFTER he has put X in savings, paid his share of the bills and mortgage, and made sure he can afford to buy me flowers and take me on a nice date once or twice a month.

Moral of the story: a man who is a MAN, committed to doing his share to provide for his family, CAN change and become more responsible with his finances, if he wants to and if he is really committed to being a grown up and to being a family man.

I hope you'll have a serious talk with him about this and make clear to him that you need evidence that he can handle the responsibilities of being a family man, and do his share to provide (as you have shown that you will do your share...I don't mean to suggest that men are the only providers, just that they should do their share, like you do yours).

 

[meresal]

Yowza... ok, here I go trying to catch up. Thank you everyone for your input. Also, we talked last night, and it got worse before it got better. We got past the money issue, and got to the deeper issue, he turns into a pretty decent guy again by the end

Last night, we met at a neutral spot, "happy hour" to discuss the situation. He apologized, but made it very apparent that he wants to go no matter what. I can understand that, his trip is free, and I can be upset but I shouldn't hold him back. We have the money, and I choose not to go bc it will be to expensive "for me", which makes it MY decision. He also agreed that he would not spend more than X amount if I end up not going. Here's where it became the situation, "C and I" vs the family. C is 25 and the eldest of the 3 kids, but apparently they still like to believe that he is 18. He called his sister yesterday afternoon to see if we could just put a blow-up mattress in the living rooma and pick it up each morning. She said, (passive aggressive... his sister and mother are great at this) "I guess we can. It will just be really tight." I'm very proud of C for picking up on this, bc he came right out and said, 'What is your problem with M?!?. You had a bf that the entire family hated, but I made him feel comfortable, why are you all trying so aggressively to keep the girl that I love out of this?' --Background: We got in a fight a few weeks ago on a river trip, and his friend called his sis in NY to tell her all about it (ie, he left in the middle of our fight and didn't stick aroudn to see that it was all over in a matter of minutes.) We'll she assumed that C wasn't happy and has since been ignoring the emails that I have sent her. WTF? We'll the minute I found this out, that explains why his mom has been weird arond me that last month... his sis and mom talk like 3 times a day about everything.-- I have never dated a guy who's family didn't like me, and I just don't understand it. His mom called while we were at happy hour, and he had the same conversation with her. They were ALL under the impression that he wasn't happy!! Why not just call and ask him?!?! Once we left, I went to get dinner and called my mom balling, but she calmed me down, and told me to realize that in the end it is all about how he and I are, and if he is sticking up for me, then that shows alot of maturity on his part. Everything will be alright, and if they truely love and respect him, things will get better. (I LOVE my mom) When we got home, he told me that his sis sent him a text message on the way home apologizing for assuming what she did without calling to ask the actual source, adn that she really does like me. So I'd like to hope that things will get better. We'll see...

Booper: I hope my post answered your questions!!

Ladypirate: We talked and "Joint Unit" will be the case once we get married, but he made me realize that to the rest of the family, we are not that yet, and in this situation that is how they see it. I realized last night that I really don't think his family thinks we will get married anytime soon??? They have a 25 yr old son, and I think in their dream world all the kids will get married at the same time in like 10 yrs. His grandparents are getting the hint faster than anyone else in the family... except for his Dad, he loves me!!!

Bliss: Thank you for popping back in. We are young and that is what I keep reminding myself. I've got plenty of yrs to be with this man. We don't have to experience every single trip together before we are 26. Again, my choice to not spend the money, I can't hold him back. He reminded me that if it was my family, he would do the same. Yes, that is true. I used "poophead" and he looked at me, tilted his head, and go this little smirk on his face... so cute.

Fieryred: He has gotten a lot better at saving since I moved here, and I can only offer support as he changes. I apprecaite that he tries, but sometimes people have slipups. Sometimes I can even be a little hard headed. And yes, his lovely passive aggressive Mother, I believe she had nothing but "family togetherness" input. Hopefully things will change after the talks they had yesterday. Thank you.

Purrfect: He knows how to save, just not as well as I would like; however he is trying for me. Sometimes, I can ask too much and I realize that. It's not that I wanted the engagement sooner, I mistakenly expected it to be sonner. We have grown alot in the last year, and I realize getting engaged back then, would have been a horrible decision on my part. Sometimes, he is actually the source of reason. I always put "us" first, and he realizes that he needs to work on that. On the couples conseling thing... I actually think it is a great idea for a couple to have a third party listen to some disagreements. It allows you to learn how to step back and think about situations from other views. For now PS is my relationship counselor

Thank you for you input purrfect. I really appreciate it.

Holly: Blunt is what I need sometimes. Thanks again!!

Lucky: We don't get in many, and this is one where I had a feeling I might be overreacting ("Am I missing something..."). I needed more than my best friends input in this situation. The white sox??? Aren't y'all just fans of them, bc the Cubs suck so bad?? LOL jk. My dad is from NW Indiana, and he has some "interesting" inputs... however, I think that one might be shared by LOTS of baseball fans.

Surfgirl: Yes, I was mad, and I told him. He didn't accept it well, but by the end we realized how to move past it and grow from it at the same time (see update above). He did try to use the fact that I siad I wasn't mad against me, and I made it perfectly clear that I wasn't being truthful with myself. I won't do that again. He hasn't been pissing away money (he's been making a conscious change for me and our savings), I worry that he will piss away money on this trip. About lying to my parents, that is 100% my choice. If it were up to him, we would have told them a year ago, and dealt with it back then. About the $1000 for my ring, he has already put over $10,000 into it, and I thought it would be nice to help a little bit. It is a sensitive subject aroudn here, but other people do it. He saves lots, but like I said earlier, everyone has had that moment where they look at their account and say, "I jsut wish there was more." I put my situation up here to get pointers from every angle, and yours have helped me. Thank you for taking the time.

Bobbin: Thank you, but not necessary to stand up for me. I asked for opinions bc I'm trying to learn to be open minded, and I learn something from each post here. C actually told his sister, that if she is looking for a realtionship that doesn't have disagreements, then she will never be happy. His exact words, "If you don't have arguements, then you're not talking enough." Lying to my parents is my choice, and though people may not agree, I think it is best for my situation and my family ideals. Now that is it the next morning, I'm feeling better. Thank you for everything you wrote. *Hugs back*

Anchor: I understand things can be sour, but when I don't wnat to be snatched from my un-reality world, I don't post.

Like saying earlier, I needed input and I appreciate anything anyone takes the time to write. Everyone is trying to help, everyone has their own way of expressing it.

IG: I appreciate your post in many ways. I can sit here and say he has really tried, but I have to be honest and admit... When he set a spending limit and set an X amount that will directly go into savings, it was actually us. I sat him down and said we need to get this undercontrol. I now realize that this is not the same as him taking 'the bull by the horns' and realizing he NEEDS to do this to prove to me he can change. I will be sure to communicate that with him. He is trying to change for me, and he knows it is what is best, but I know he can still resent me at times for thinking he can't get something bc I'll get mad. That idea needs to change to him not wanting to buy that "thing" bc he will feel bad for going against his OWN plan. Does any of that make sense??? Thank you so much for your post!!

 

[Independent Gal]

Yes, exactly! He can''t see you as the Big Bad Lady who is not nice like his mommy is and doesn''t let him have all the toys he wants. He can''t do it to make YOU not be mad, he has to do it because he wants to step up and take responsibility.

 

[luckystar112]

I thought you said they were playing the red sox? I could care less about the white sox! lol!

 

[surfgirl]

meresal, I'd like to take back what I said about maturity on your part because the fact that you honestly wanted all kinds of feedback, and the fact that you didn't get huffy when some of us told it like we saw it says a lot about you sweetie. You took everyone's comments with grace and that takes maturity. I applaud you for coming here for genuine feedback and not "enabling" which is often the case. Good for you for hearing everybody's opinions!

That said, I'm glad you guys talked and cleared the air somewhat but I guess I still dont get why he's insisting on going on this trip without you. That still bugs me. But I'm not in your relationship, you are, so the only thing that matters is how you feel about all of this. I just hope you make him pay you back that $1000 pronto, and dont enable his financial weaknesses. Perhaps you guys should seek some couples counseling and financial counseling to help him see what he is, or isn't, doing in terms of being fiscally responsible, and a financial planner would also be helpful in helping him learn how to manage his finances better.

Regarding my comment about paying for your own ring. I know that some women contribute to their ering and that's totally their right to do. I just think that him saving XXX amount shouldn't mean you feel guilty, which is the impression I get, that you have to kick in XXX amount because he's saving for your ring. You know how sometimes people dont like to give away puppies because they say if someone gets something for free - no pain, no gain - they dont relish it or take care of it as much? To me, I think it's probably a good thing for your guy to "feel a little pain" in saving for an ering for the woman of his dreams, you know what I mean? So he has to give up going to a Yankees Stadium game, big deal! A stadium is nothing compared to his future wife, right? The amount he'd spend is probably quite a bit, I just was in NYC for a weekend, stayed with my Dad, used frequent flyer miles, and still it was an expensive weekend and we didn't really do anything all that indulgent! So yeah, I think it's probably a good, adult, growing up thing if he makes some sacrifices along the way for you. You're worth it and you should never feel that you're being unreasonable about that. You sound much more financially responsible than he does. That's my opinion.

 

[Independent Gal]

ACtually, you know, Surf''s suggestion of financial counseling is a good one. Just going to meet with an investment advisor or retirement counselor and crunching out the numbers might give him a sense of direction and a reality check.

Although from the sounds of it, his parents are pretty loaded and spread it around, so maybe he thinks he doesn''t need to save for retirement or a house or whatever?

 

[meresal]

IG: Again, thank you so much. You''ve really opened my eyes. Being honest... I believe I will let this "little issues''

die down a bit before I bring up the finances again. You are very close on the not needing to save aspect. His family is very helpful financial wise.

Lucky: I''m sorry, anytime I hear Sox, I automatically think White. If we had gone for the 4th, then they would have played the Red Sox. Now that the dates have changed, it will be someone else. NOBODY "really'' cares about the white sox. LOL!!!

Surfgirl: Funny thing is, I used to be a financial advisor, but this is one of those times when I sound like mommy and not like a certified professional. An outside advisor will be a great idea. Now just to get FF on board... I''m really hoping I get to go on the trip, we''re checking out all the prices. I just want to make sure C isn''t the only one that wants me there.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

As someone who is marrying a man from a messed up family that doesn''t like me, I can''t promise it will get better. What I can say is that him standing up for you is what is most important and it sounds like he does. My FI didn''t realize things like the situatiog you are in would be hurtful to me either when we first started dating, ebcause he was raised that way and it was simply the way things were. Over the years, he has come to see how he is a unit with me, not a unit with his family and me on the side. It took time, but it was worth it and it has made a big difference. I don''t mean he never sees his family, just that the dynamic has shifted.

I also know where you are on money. I don''t have good advice on that one. My FI and I had to live really cheap as students in Europe and he came to realize how little of what he bought at home he needed or even truely wanted. He has been much better since that experience, so like IG, my guy did change for the better.

Good luck and good for you both for talking to him and for listening to us with a rational mindframe.

 

[mrm]

Hey! If getting a ticket for yourself is a problem, I could probably have one of the White Sox players leave you a ticket at cost. They actually probably won''t even make you pay but, believe it or not, the players have to pay 40% of the ticket price for tax reasons. But still, it would probably only be like $40.00. I realize there are deeper issues going on with your relationship than the money but my heart just broke when I heard your story. Although even if I did end up going, I don''t know if I could get past the fact that he was going to go without me when it was something we had talked about doing together.

 

[ladypirate]

*hugs*--I''m glad you got it somewhat resolved. Also, I just have to say, from all your posts you sound like a really strong, smart, mature woman. I hope he realizes what he has, sooner rather than later! It does show a lot that he stuck up for you, though--sometimes families can be a bit overprotective and cause damage without even realizing it. I hope they come around soon!

 

[meresal]

***UPDATE***

Thank you to EVERYONE for your advice and insight.

So.... The plane tickets are purchased, our hotel reservations are set, and we will be in NY by noon Thursday the 31st of July!!!! I am so excited!!!! It will be C's brother, C, and myself flying up.

We get to spend 4 full days there, and the following Monday morning. We will be going to the "Old-timers" Yankee game on Saturday, which should be alot of fun, and VERY special if anyone know$ what the$e ticket$ mean. (truely insane) His mom gave them to all of us as a present!!

Thanks again for EVERYTHING. You gals are truely the greatest!! Maybe now I can start hoping for an engagement?!?!

 

[lliang_chi]

Hm, keep an eye on the scoreboard just in case. You said that Yankee Stadium is a really special place for you too... Have fun on your trip!!!!!

 

[Scorpio_22]

Have a great trip!!

Things will get better with his family, just give it time..

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

Glad things have worked out and you will get to take your big trip!

I do have to agree that I like the idea of a financial counselor that isn''t you

It''s always nice to have an opinion from a 3rd party!

I can''t wait to hear how your trip turns out....sending you LOTS of dust!!!

 

[IloveAsschers13]

Hey I know I might be posting a little late but.. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Although it might be hard, it''s always good ot be open, honest, and communicate. Even when you and your SO talked, look at how much better it was! I just feel like the more open and communicative you are, the more everything gets cleared up faster. If you let him know how you feel, it will really help get it off your chest and clear the air. I know it''s so hard being open sometimes, especially when it''s not your family (yet

) but in the long run, it will help.

I just watched my parents (well Im watching) go through a divorce, and it seriously based on lack of communication. It''s the worst.

Hope this helps!

 

[Bia]

Oh Meresel, I am so sorry this is happening to you! I can't imagine how hard it would be for me to have a tense relationship with my BF's family.

It sounds like your boyfriend 1.) is very close to his fam and is used to having them involved with everything AND 2.) is being selfish. He may not think he is, but he is. Women and men are different and sometimes you have to make men see-the-light. I am glad you had a sit down with him. I know it hurts you that he wanted go to NY without you--I would be so pissed! I wouldn't let this go, because if you're going to be married, sticking together is number one, always! You should come first.

I agree with other posters that you have to sort out the financial bits as well. Finances are a huge issue for many many couples and can't be taken lightly.

I wish I had the answers...please let us know how it works out.

ETA!!!! OOPS! Didn't read the last few posts!!! HAPPY TO HEAR IT WORKED OUT! Have a great trip girlie! GO BOSTON!

 

[meresal]

Chi: Haha, I made C promise he wouldn''t do it at an astros game... but I guess that doesn''t rul out any other parks. I''ll keep an eye out, but I''m pretty sure it wont happen at the game. Thanks!!

Scorpio: Things are getting better. C mom and I are actually on a hunt for a great Yoga class, and we did our first one yesterday, then had lunch, and then she went with me to find a baby shower gift. It was great!! Just a little sweat equity, if you know what I mean!!

Thanks for your kind thoguhts

KTF21: Thanks for the dust. I''m really hoping that it will happen by the end of the summer. I''m sooooo ready to start planning!!!

Asschers: C and I are huge communicators. When this all went down we were both at work, and as anyone can understand... having an hour long discussion on work hours just doesn''t fly. We meet immediately after work to talk, which was the soonest we could. We are also huge believers that a relationship cannot and will not survive if you can''t talk about your feelings, while respecting the other persons as well. I''m glad to know there are others out there as well. Thanks!!

Bia: It did work out and thank you for taking the time to help out. I really appreiate it. Haha, they actually wont be playing Boston this trip... I think it will be the Angels. However, get this.... Me being the worlds BEST girlfriend, I suprised C with tickets to todays game in Houston against the Red Sox, since they wont be there when we''re in NY.
Me being from an American League town (Rangers), I just couldn''t understand the excitement of seeing the Yankees and Red Sox play, but this is the first time Boston has EVER been to Houston. We''re leaving in about an hour, and he''s pretty excited!!

 

[canadian_bling]

This may be a bit long but since it''s similar to something I''ve had to and am going through, I though I''d chime in.

I think that you should go on this trip with him or give your blessing for him to go on this trip if everything is being paid for already. I wouldn''t want to encourage him to be immature but perhaps his mom just wants to treat him and he''s just thankful that he has such generous parents. We all spend money on things that we don''t need but adore, I know as I have a pretty good chunk of rock too. If this trip will truly make him a happier person and won''t put you into debt, I do believe that he also has the right to enjoy himself. And yes, this means that you may be spending some precious money that could be saved.

In terms of paying for his family, you are going to have to make it clear to him that if all his siblings are working, they should pitch a bit too. He doesn''t have to do everything. If he feels that he has the best income and wants to pay 10-20% more, I say let him do without too much complaint. You don''t want to marry someone who treats his family poorly as it doesn''t say very much about him. However, in my case, where my family-in-law pretty much almost never paid and thought I owed it to kiss up them, I would definitely request your bf to refrain from paying. Everyone needs to grow up and accept some responsibility sooner or later.

My motto is save money where it needs to be saved and spend it when it really is worth spending. I hope this is not overstepping any bounds in terms of advice.

Good luck!

 

[meresal]

Canadian: Thank you so much for your post.

Everything was taken care of about a month ago now... we are all going (me, C, and his brother). C and I will be staying at a hotel. I''m so excited!! We leave 2 weeks from yesterday, on the 31st!! I can''t wait!!

Again, thank you for your thoughts.