What are your thoughts on homework?

[TravelingGal]

Just to clarify, I don't see the point of homework in the LOWER grades. At least K-2. I am not sure yet when homework should begin, IMHO, but 3rd and up sounds reasonable to me. They're 8-9 years old by that time, right? Maybe 5th and up sounds better, but I know I was way capable of homework by myself by the 4th grade.

 

[Haven]

I just wanted to chime in and mention that it's really interesting to read everyone's opinions on homework and the broader educational system and expectations as well.

I agree!

I think what's most striking is just how varied our opinions and expectations really are.

I'm always most interested in my students' reflections on these issues, because they are, after all, the ones we are supposed to be serving in the school system. So, I've really enjoyed reading about everyone's experiences with homework and how they wish it could have been different, or how it served them, when they were students.

As for me, I rarely did any homework. I went to a competitive high school that prided itself on its national ranking as a top public HS, and thus they put a lot of weight on test scores. I graduated with a 3.4/4.0 GPA, and was constantly being called into my counselor's office because everyone felt I wasn't living up to my potential (translation: WHY are you only earning Bs when you are clearly gifted based on your standardized test scores?!) Even at a young age, I was reluctant to do work that had, in my opinion, little to no value.

I went off to college and became an extremely hard worker, mostly because I was paying for it myself and I always like to get my money's worth, and I was FINALLY able to enroll in classes that had real meaning for me. I have fond memories of very long hours spent in the vending room in the union with my study group, and of waking up before nearly anyone else on campus every Sunday to grab breakfast and an ideal table in the vending room before anyone else got to it.

I was obviously motivated by the desire to learn for learning's sake, and I've always had strong opinions about what was worth learning. But I understand that everyone is different. My sister, who went through the same K-12 schools and college, was quite the opposite student. Throughout high school she did all of her homework, in advance, and was compelled to do it because that was what was expected of her. She is just as gifted in the testing department as I, and could have easily skated through high school without doing all that homework, but did it, anyway. However, when she got to college all of those wonderful "study habits" went down the drain. She really needed the structure that HS offered because it was the small daily assignments that kept her on track. College just didn't have those. At least, ours didn't. We attended a HUGE university, and it was up to us to study, without guidance, and keep up with the material. Most of my first year courses assigned grades based on a midterm and a final exam, only.

She thrived where I languished with a lot of structure.
I flourished where she withered with a lot of freedom.
We went through the same exact school system.
We had the same exact parents.
But we are two different people, and we had different needs.
Homework served her needs.
Choice served mine.
In the end, we're both doing just fine. I teach English at a community college. She's in her second year of a six year rabbinical program. We both love our chosen careers, and neither of us is scarred by memories of too little or too much homework.

This is the conundrum facing educators today. We are required, by law, to measure every student's success by the same yardstick, and in doing so we fail to recognize that our students have different needs, different developmental patterns, and different strengths and weaknesses. The pressure is on to get all of our students to perform at a particular level at a particular time in their lives, regardless of their actual needs. The pendulum of education swings hard and fast, and as educators we have to hold on tight, because it slows down for no one. Not even the students whom we are setting out to serve.

ETA: Sorry for the very long post. I've been flat on my back for two days after injuring it Monday night, so I have a lot of time on my hand. And as you know, I care very much about this topic.

I wanted to add that there is a lot of educational research focusing on this very issue right now, homework in the elementary grades. The current consensus seems to be that children who are involved in rigorous academic programs in the elementary grades are more likely to burn out in the later grades, and thus under-perform and fall behind their peers, than children involved in developmental programs. Much of this research focuses on GTE students, or at least, much of what I've read focuses on GTE students. Regardless, it's an interesting point.

 

[random_thought]

I didn't read through all the pages but just wanted to throw in my experience.
When I was in the 7-8 year old age group; we usually had a few worksheets to complete during the week but I still had plenty of time to play outside and be a kid. If I remember correctly the worksheets were about spelling, math, cursive, and occasionally art projects to work on at home with my parents. Hope this helps?

 

[TooPatient]

Homework should NOT require the help of parents, tutors, or smart friends!!!!

I was (mostly) lucky that the homework I got was introduced in class so it was pretty much just practicing (or taking a small step further) what we had just learned. If I had been given homework that required someone to work on it with me I would have been in BIG trouble.

Another bit about homework that some may not have thought about:
Homework was something structured and productive that I could do. When I finished my homework I read books. If it hadn't been for the homework I would probably have been sitting in front of the tv, playing video games, and eating junk food because that is what there was to do. (I can say this with great confidence because this is what my brother did -- and is STILL doing at the age of 22). My mom was not available to help (she had work), couldn't drive me to get to a free tutoring session - on the rare occassion one was available - or a friend's house (too busy drinking), and (even if she wasn't drinking) couldn't have figured out even my 4th grade math homework.

Homework is important for so many different reasons (tests, prep for real life, long term memory, etc) and I just can't imagine what my life would have been without it ---- wait.... I can: I would be overweight and unemployed with little hope (and certainly no thought) of going to college. I'd be following in the path of my mother (who got her GED), father (believes that any school after 2nd grade is a waste of time and not needed), and so many others in my family. Probably be an alcoholic too.

 

[yennyfire]

1. What age would you expect your child to come home with homework?
2. Do you think homework should be given as a weekly packet to be completed throughout the week, or one page per night?
3. How many minutes (or hours, for older kids) would you like to see your child have? Would this depend on his/her grade level?
4. Do you always help your child with his/her homework or do you let him/her complete it alone?
5. Do you care if the homework assignment is a worksheet or would you like to see more hand-on activities?

My son started kindergarten this year and he has a bit of homework that he's asked to do 3x a week. I get a monthly calendar with each day's assignment on them and he has to pick 3 days each week. I like being able to see what assignments are coming, though I've heard from friends that getting a calendar like this is unusual, so I'm trying not to get spoiled!

We turn in his homework noteboook every Friday for his teacher to review. Examples of his homework include: writing the letter "N" 5 times (upper/lowercase) and then drawing a picture of 3 "P" words and writing the word underneath the picture. Each assignment takes him about 15 minutes. While I realize that this isn't excessive, I've had mixed feelings about it. The adjustment to kindergarten has been a tough one, not in terms of the size of the classroom or the work itself, it's just a really long day for my little guy. He comes home EXHAUSTED, so getting him to do any work is a challenge. We are also expected to read at least one book a day. This is a part of our bedtime routine anyway, but now that he's doing the reading, it takes a lot longer than it used to! Right now, we sit down and do his homework together, but I'm hoping that by the time he's in 3rd grade or so, he can do it on his own at the kitchen table while I prepare dinner.

I'm with you Zoe. I say let kids be kids and play when they come home. I see my kids learning a lot from playing with me and with their friends. We've had to cut back on after school activities because I felt that he needed at least two days a week with "unscheduled" time. It makes me sad when I realize what we expect of such young kids. They'll have to be grown ups soon enough, imo.

 

[ksinger]

Circe said......."...where there's no shame in the more hands-on professions"

Ah! But therein lies the rub: for whatever reason (and it delves into politics and such so we will not discuss genesis, merely what IS) our economy has likely permanently shed the lion's share of those manufacturing jobs that once enabled those not academically inclined, to make an honest living. Even the unskilled jobs are gone because we have long turned a blind eye to and tolerated, illegal immigrants doing those jobs when we all demanded cheap food and services. We shifted the costs and delayed payment, but now the structural bill is due. We now have allowed the creation of an economy where the ONLY people who will get ahead will be college educated, and heck, right now we don't even have enough jobs for THEM!

Circe, if so many of your college entrants are near-illiterate, consider that they weren't so much failed by the system (believe me I have more stories of some of those ESL kids and how they float in and out of "the system"), as shoved to a level of education they were ill-suited for to begin with. And what is your college doing LETTING them in in the first place? The colleges bear some of the responsibility too, to winnow out those who aren't suited or prepared. But then the colleges have made a lucrative industry out of offering remedial classes, so they stand to lose financially by turning away anyone with money to pay. And it speaks to that overwhelming collective denial we have, that some "Johnnies" are NEVER going to be college material. La la la! We refuse to hear it!! So send 'em all!!

So we're back to, what DO we do about those kids who will not or CAN not go to college? In spite of this, they are not stupid, and are at least smart enough to read the writing on the wall, and from where they stand, it looks pretty hopeless. From where I stand hearing the daily sad stories from my husband's school (a school the likes of which I can only assume is NOT all that uncommon) it looks pretty hopeless, although there are those kids who hit escape velocity, and they are the ones that keep the hubs alive. Maybe helping one of those kids make it out, is his reason for staying, when he could teach at a less distressed school, or do something else entirely.

And it wasn't the nookie in the bathroom that made homework irrelvant or higher ed unlikely, it was the suspension and the harriden mother shrieking at the principal that made it so. By far, the greatest handicap most kids have, is their parents...


And you are spot on Circe, in that the industrial(in whatever connotation of "industrial" you care to use) model of education is probably not working so well anymore. (It does in fact, bring up the question of what exactly an "education" is supposed to accomplish and produce. Now THERE's a question. And every single person in this thread will have a different idea of what that is supposed to be, I guarantee it.)

But until we back off our collective, increasing abandonment of the long-standing American ideal of public education as a common and necessary societal good (I do in fact believe that the idea of "societal good" is itself, dead) - and are willing to actually FUND individualized instruction for every child, we will not see that much change. And to hear the political ads in my state, against funding education here at a MINIMAL (and I DO mean minimal) level, you'd think the Apocalyse was nigh...

Sorry for the rant/jack guys.....you should know by now how I twitch on this issue. I'm one of Pavlov's puppies.

 

[soocool]

If you have never seen this before, please check it out: Father Guido Sarducci's Five Minute University


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO8x8eoU3L4

 

[TooPatient]

Circe said......."...where there's no shame in the more hands-on professions"

Ah! But therein lies the rub: for whatever reason (and it delves into politics and such so we will not discuss genesis, merely what IS) our economy has likely permanently shed the lion's share of those manufacturing jobs that once enabled those not academically inclined, to make an honest living. Even the unskilled jobs are gone because we have long turned a blind eye to and tolerated, illegal immigrants doing those jobs when we all demanded cheap food and services. We shifted the costs and delayed payment, but now the structural bill is due. We now have allowed the creation of an economy where the ONLY people who will get ahead will be college educated, and heck, right now we don't even have enough jobs for THEM!

Circe, if so many of your college entrants are near-illiterate, consider that they weren't so much failed by the system (believe me I have more stories of some of those ESL kids and how they float in and out of "the system"), as shoved to a level of education they were ill-suited for to begin with. And what is your college doing LETTING them in in the first place? The colleges bear some of the responsibility too, to winnow out those who aren't suited or prepared. But then the colleges have made a lucrative industry out of offering remedial classes, so they stand to lose financially by turning away anyone with money to pay. And it speaks to that overwhelming collective denial we have, that some "Johnnies" are NEVER going to be college material. La la la! We refuse to hear it!! So send 'em all!!

So we're back to, what DO we do about those kids who will not or CAN not go to college? In spite of this, they are not stupid, and are at least smart enough to read the writing on the wall, and from where they stand, it looks pretty hopeless. From where I stand hearing the daily sad stories from my husband's school (a school the likes of which I can only assume is NOT all that uncommon) it looks pretty hopeless, although there are those kids who hit escape velocity, and they are the ones that keep the hubs alive. Maybe helping one of those kids make it out, is his reason for staying, when he could teach at a less distressed school, or do something else entirely.

And it wasn't the nookie in the bathroom that made homework irrelvant or higher ed unlikely, it was the suspension and the harriden mother shrieking at the principal that made it so. By far, the greatest handicap most kids have, is their parents...


And you are spot on Circe, in that the industrial(in whatever connotation of "industrial" you care to use) model of education is probably not working so well anymore. (It does in fact, bring up the question of what exactly an "education" is supposed to accomplish and produce. Now THERE's a question. And every single person in this thread will have a different idea of what that is supposed to be, I guarantee it.)

But until we back off our collective, increasing abandonment of the long-standing American ideal of public education as a common and necessary societal good (I do in fact believe that the idea of "societal good" is itself, dead) - and are willing to actually FUND individualized instruction for every child, we will not see that much change. And to hear the political ads in my state, against funding education here at a MINIMAL (and I DO mean minimal) level, you'd think the Apocalyse was nigh...

Sorry for the rant/jack guys.....you should know by now how I twitch on this issue. I'm one of Pavlov's puppies.

Ksinger ---
THANK YOU!!!!!

I've been avoiding any mention of some of these points because I know how controversial they are. The current system really is broken. I agree with pretty much every point you made (including - especially - stuff I didn't highlight). I don't know how to get from where we are into a better, more individualized system but I hope it happens soon. It'll be an interesting transition from one to the other, I'm sure, but it is something we NEED to have happen.

 

[pennquaker09]

DD has a 9th grader in her AP Calc course this year. Of course he is brilliant. When she was a sophomore she had an 8th grader who would come over from the middle school for her Honors Geometry class. Because DD has been exceling in math she has taught some of the classes when she asked the teacher if she could. She also scored an 800 (twice) on the math portion of the SATs and 800 on the Math SAT Subject tests.

DD attributes her success in math because it was the one subject that she had homework in regularly since 1st grade. In 4th grade she was tested and accepted into the school's Math Enrichment Program. She was the only girl in her class. The entire program (grades 4-6) only had one or two girls for each grade level. In high school fewer girls take Honors or AP math classes.

Once upon a time, I was a math/science teacher. (Chemistry mainly, but I can teach the others, I prefer to stay away from biology, however.) I taught at a magnet school in Philly. I had the entire range,freshmen through seniors, regular college prep to Advanced Placement.

In my math courses, my homework requirements differed. In Algebra, I required it. You have to practice it to learn it. If by some chance a student was obviously incorrectly placed, I did my best to get them in a honors algebra section. But, it's the foundation, and I wouldn't have been doing my job if I didn't make sure they learned it.

On the flip side, in my AP calc and chemistry classes, I left the decision on homework to the students. Mainly because as it's a college level course, I was teaching them that in college, the professor isn't going to walk around and give you homework credit. You either do it or you don't. Ninety five percent of their grade in my calc class were from tests and quizzes. I felt like I was being generous for letting the other 5% be homework. I didn't have an issue, everyone had a A or B, and they all passed the AP exam.

Now, back to the Algebra/Algebra II kids. Say you don't do your homework and we're getting close to the end of the marking period. Suddenly, the cries for extra credit start. Bulls*it. I don't understand the concept of extra credit. If you'd done your homework in the beginning, you would have gotten credit for one, and probably done rather well on the test, two. And, I was there early every morning, no excuses.

So, since I teach subjects that require practice to master, I'm a HW advocate.

Now, when we're talking K-3, I don't think kids should be coming home with more than 20 to 30 minutes of HW. In K and 1st, I would say none or maybe 10 minutes worth.

Since we live in the bubble of NYC and we're applying for pre-K, people think I'm nuts because I haven't taught my kids math. Umm, they're two, I would much rather they make a mess or something. I'm with tgal, Harvard comes later.