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tawn

tawn

Brilliant_Rock
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I''ve known that my girlfriend and her husband have been having problems for some time. She called a lot this weekend because they''ve been fighting a lot lately, and I''ve just been sympathizing with her and suggested counseling etc...Last night she called and told me that he had hit her, broken her glasses and smashed everything on the kitchen counters. She also confessed that it''s been going on sporadically for their whole marriage. I''ve suspected that he''s not all that nice to her, but I didn''t that it was nearly as bad as it is. Apparently, he "just" slaps her once (like that''s not bad enough) and that''s about as far as it goes. But, he''s threatened her with worse if she called the cops because it would be the end of his current career. He calls her names and tells her that''s she''s nothing and useless. She told me that she doesn''t want a divorce because she''d be nothing without him! ?????

I don''t think that anyone has a right to lay their hands on you in anger and was horrified, and told her that she could come to my house, but she said it would just make it worse. She says she still loves him, but that he tells her that he hates her.

I was as such a complete loss, and told her that I just didn''t know what to say and that she has to really think about what she "needs" to do. To complicate it, our husbands work for the same people, but not actually together, but they''ve been friends for years. I told her that she can come here anytime and that I was there for her if she needed me. These are close friends of ours, and we share the same group of friends and we all share our family celebrations and holiday dinners together. We care about both of them.

What the hell should I do? They are the only ones that can make the choice to break the cycle. She doesn''t seem like she''s afraid that he''s going to actually "hurt" her or that she''s in real danger, but she''s tired of being treated like dirt. I want to do something, but I just don''t think it''s my place. I''m going to be there for her, and try to talk her into going to speak with a professional because I don''t think she thinks that''s she''s really an abused wife because he''s not beating the daylights out of her...

I hardly slept last night worrying over what I should....or shouldn''t do!
 
Hello, Tawny....You really said it all when you said only they can choose to break the cycle. Your friend knows what she needs to do, but must have the courage to do it....you are doing the right thing by being supportive & someone she can turn to. I have a co-worker who lives with her boyfriend who is very physically & verbally abusive. He calls her the worst names you can imagine, has run her credit cards up to the limit & threatens to kick her out of their apt. by Christmas. This has been going on for a couple of yrs., but she won''t leave. Her last boyfriend is in jail in Kentucky for murdering a previous gf. I started out giving her advice which she agreed with but wouldn''t act on....now I just listen & try to be supportive. Also, my sister lives in Tenn. & her husband is in law enforcement. He pulled his gun on her once, and she called the police. By the time the police came, he had talked her into changing her story so he wouldn''t lose his job. Sadly, I think this scenario is much more common than people realize. You & your friend are in my prayers......Do they have children??
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I''m no professional but she thinks she can take it because it''s not that bad. She''s willing to endure it for the security or whatever ''her'' reason is. Do they have kids or does she want kids? I would explain to her that it''s not just about her and her bad choices. It''s about what he could do if he lost his temper at one of the children or just as bad, what their children will grow up to consider ''normal.''

Usually, women who stay are either to weak/scared to leave or they think they can handle it. When it becomes about someone else - especially children - maybe she''ll see the danger for what it really is.
 
Date: 12/5/2005 3:44:43 PM
Author:tawn


What the hell should I do? They are the only ones that can make the choice to break the cycle. She doesn''t seem like she''s afraid that he''s going to actually ''hurt'' her or that she''s in real danger, but she''s tired of being treated like dirt. I want to do something, but I just don''t think it''s my place. I''m going to be there for her, and try to talk her into going to speak with a professional because I don''t think she thinks that''s she''s really an abused wife because he''s not beating the daylights out of her...

I hardly slept last night worrying over what I should....or shouldn''t do!
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sigh... what a tough situation to be. But it sounds like you know that there isn''t much that you can do right now. She won''t leave until she is ready, and until then, you can only continue to offer her support and a place to stay when she can leave. You could encourage her to get counseling, but there''s no guarantee that will change things either. It''s hard to leave when you feel like crap. And I think a lot of women also realize the level of danger that comes with leaving, as this is the time of most serious violence.

She sounds like a pretty classic abused woman. Can''t leave b/c the abused has her convinced that she is worthless. She can''t leave b/c he has her convinced that if she does he will hurt her or her family, etc. Vicious cycle! Obviously, you don''t have to be going to the hospital every night to be abused, and you can tell her that chances are the situation will only get worse (with the physical violence). It sounds like there are no children involved, at least???

tawn- my thoughts are with you and your friend!!
 
Wow, that''s just an awful situation for you. You must feel like you are "involved" now that she has said something.

I think you already know that you can "lead a horse to water, but you can''t make it drink". If this has been going on for many years -- not one quick thing you are going to say will undo all of those years of psychological damage.

She will come around slowly - it''s good that she actually expressed it to you.

If I were you I would be her "ear" and be her friend. Give her advice as you see fit - but don''t get discourged or mad at her if she can''t or won''t follow it. She needs a friend right now and I''m sure there are not many people that she can tell.

If YOU can handle it - stay with her. She needs you. If you feel too much in the middle - then let her know and at least try to guide her to another friendly ear. Some people WONT go to a counsler (afraid they would get caught by partner) for so many reasons.

Be her friend. Try to listen. Try to impart good advice as much as you can. She is probably a very (emotionally ) needy person right now - so be prepared if you continue.

And know - if something happens it''s NOT YOUR FAULT. Sometimes it may feel like "if only I would have MADE her stay with me...". She is in control of her life - wheather she realizes it or not.

I hope the best for her. It''s a very hard situation to be in. But, on the good side - it sounds like she is acknoledging that what is happening is NOT normal.. That is the first step to getting better!
 
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Wow. As a psychologist, all I can say is they need help--and soon. Being a good friend is fine and dandy, but I would tell her that she AND her husband need to seek professional help (see a Marriage and Family Therapist) so they can nip this in the butt before it gets worse--or continues, for that matter. They need to learn how to truly LISTEN to one another, and how to work out their problems BEFORE they reach these levels. Also, her husband (and possibly she herself) need(s) to learn how to control his (their) temper(s). The hard thing will be finding someone who is really qualified to help. Tell her to check out: Marriage Friendly Therapists. This link is for therapists who believe in marriage, not helping people to divorce. Also, a good book is: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743284690/002-6705205-4732846?n=283155. I hope this helps!
 
Tawn,
researcher nows her stuff. I would follow her advice to the letter. Good luck, this is a tough situation to be in I''m sure. You have been a very good friend. I hope they get the help they need.
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I would urge her to seek professional help post haste. These things usually escalate. They don''t go away.

Best of luck. Also, you may want to anonymuosly call a battered shelter & see what they say the best way for you to proceed would be. I could be off base here; but, if he can hit her - he can hit you. So, I would be very careful.

Do they have children? I would be fearful if they do.
 
Tawn, I sent you a PM.
 
Man...I hate stories like this...
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This young woman NEEDS to see a professional...with her husband or on her own if he won''t go.

These situations rarely get better on their own, and are likely to get worse. And the worse it gets, the lower one''s self esteem, and the harder it is to take action.

Good for you, Tawn, for being a supportive friend. But DO NOT allow yourself to become a substitute for the professional help they need. I''d really really PUSH her as hard as I could to seek help now.

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widget is completely right. if this has been going on for years, its already progressing. hopefully she''ll get out now while the getting is good. worse case scenario is she ends up dead....or so injured she can''t take care of herself.

i helped form the first battered women''s shelter in a california central valley county. there isn''t much i haven''t seen or heard. no, i was never battered but i worked in a situation where i saw many who were and decided to do something about it.

be careful that you do not end up enabling her to stay in the situation by being her friend and listening.

peace, movie zombie
 
Always makes me sad and mad when I hear a situation like this.....
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Your friend needs to start doing some serious THINKING & PLANNING. A vicious cycle like this only continue to get worse. She needs to have a backup plan ... a plan B, C and D. She has to get herself out of this dangerous situation. His behavior and action should be recorded and documented for record/proof. It''s too bad the police can''t do much for anyone in her situation until it''s too late. I never understood that !!??!!

As a friend... You have done a great job being there for her! She will need more support as she goes thru this tough process.
 
Dealing with people who are psychologically and emotionally abused is like dealing with Alcholics and addicts; it's incredibly difficult and incredibly frustrating. It is too much for the average friend/family member to deal with; she's needs a therapy.

# 1 - Therapy for her. Someone to talk to and brake down the brainwashing/psychological abuse the occurs with battered women. They DO truly believe they deserve it, or it's not that bad, or they can't live without their abusive spouse. She needs help from a professional. She should easily be able to make up a reason to see a therapist.

# 2 - Couples therapy - real discussion about what's going on with a licensed professional. If she really wants it to work out - this is the only way! She'll not only be helping herself but she will genuinely be doing him a favor.

# 3 - If therapy does not help, which may vey well be the case, she needs to walk.
Hopefully, a therapist can build her up a little bit emotionally/psychologically so that she can UNDERSTAND their relationship for what it is and make the necessary leap to protect herself.

I would suggest to her that she start a secret savings account, in her name only, and send the bill to a secret P.O. Box.


Scintillating...
 
I dont have anything new to add. I have a friend that is going through the same thing. All I can do is be supportive and suggest she & her husband seek counseling. I can go on & on & on with her but they have to want to make changes.

P.S. my husband would make the mistake of his life if he put his hands on me. Man...............
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tawn I''m so sorry your friend is going through this.
You''re a wonderful friend to listen to her.
I don''t think someone like him would seek counseling. They never think
something is wrong. "It''s not my problem." "Why should I speak to some stranger?"

Anyway I find it interesting how some woman like VegasAngel are so
self assured "if my husband was ever to lay a hand on me........"
and other woman are not.
How does this happen? such a viscious cycle
 
This man has serious issues that go beyond "marital" problems. A large percentage of battered women and men who are batterers come from homes where they witnessed this same behavior. It's about controlling the other person and this will only get worse and is totally unacceptable. My husband would never lay a hand on me, but I always said I would never tolerate it for one second. I find it interesting that she says she still loves him. I dont' think it's love, but dependence and insecurity from her stating she's "nothing" without him. That's really sad. She needs to take care of herself now. Why does she want to stay with a man who says he hates her and hits her. He may not be beating the daylights out of her, but he is verbally abusive and has laid hands on her. That's just too much. I'm really not for divorce, but in situations like this, her safety is of more importance than helping him keep his job. She cannot be responsible for his career, that's his issue. He's already hurt her. I think it is your place as she has brought you into this situation. If something does happen to her and you hadn't tried to help, how will you feel? Sorry to be so blunt, but this is not a time for tiptoeing around.
 
Thanks for all the great replies!! It''s such a difficult subject where there just doesn''t seem to be a clear-cut right thing to do...

They don''t have any children, but she did suffer a miscarriage earlier this year. She wasn''t happy to be pregnant, and was actually relieved when she had her first ultrasound and there was only an empty sac and no baby.

Apparently, the cycle has been very slowly escalating for the last 10yrs.

I''ve been agonizing about it all day...and I haven''t heard from her yet today. I''m wondering if she''s going to be too ashamed to talk to me now that she''s confessed? I feel guilty for thinking that I wished she hadn''t told me!

I think I''ll invite her to lunch and let her talk if she wants.
 
Date: 12/5/2005 5:09:48 PM
Author: fire&ice
I would urge her to seek professional help post haste. These things usually escalate. They don''t go away.



Best of luck. Also, you may want to anonymuosly call a battered shelter & see what they say the best way for you to proceed would be. I could be off base here; but, if he can hit her - he can hit you. So, I would be very careful.



Do they have children? I would be fearful if they do.
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i was thinking the same thing- be careful yourself, especially since you run in the same circles. you don''t want him against you too.

i would also anonymously call a shelter.
 
I would just call her tomorrow and chat as normal and see if she brings it up. Or if you''re like me I''d just say straight up, I''m glad you confided in me and please know I am here if you need me. I like the straight approach but that''s just more my style. You have to do what''s right for you. Good luck with all of this. I agree with others that you need to be careful with this guy. I''d be cautious for your own safety.
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oddly enough, its a self-esteem issue for him, too.

and then there is that roller coaster ride where everything is good, starts to go downhill, the big blow up, the honey i''m sorry i''ll never do ''x'' again, honeymoon for a bit and the cycle repeats itself....over and over and over again. statistics used to be that a woman would leave the man an average of 7 times before she left him for good.

one thing i can tell you: have the contact info for police/sheriff, shelters, legal counsel, support groups, etc. handy to give to her. i doubt if he will try anything with you except since your husband and he work together, it is possible that if he finds out she''s been talking to you that he''ll be even more abusive to her. the most he will probably do to you is tell you to stay out of their business. have a come back ready just in case. perhaps, ''any time i see a woman being mistreated, it is my business and i intend to make it the authorities business as well''.

i can understand your feelings of wishing she hadn''t told you. and in many ways even if you''re her friend, you are not equipped to ''be there for her''. this is a matter for those experienced in the matter. you can only go so far as her friend. she has to go the rest of the way. opening up to you may be her first step. but relying on you will not only enable her to continue in this destructive relationship, it will not be healthy for your own emotions. be there as you can but do not feel guilty that you can''t save her: she and only she can do that.

peace,movie zombie
 
Tawn, my heart goes out to you and your friend. Thank God we live in a time when we have more resources for help in these kinds of situations. I really hope that everything works out for the best for her, and I have to say that you are an AWESOME person for not looking the other way during tough times! I have no advice to offer that hasn''t already been said, you have been lucky to be able to come here and receive support from this community. Best of luck!
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I feel for you Tawn. This is a most difficult situation. I don''t think that I can add that much more to the great advice all the others have left.
I volunteered for a battered women''s shelter when I was 20 and in college and worked there for two years after graduation so I have seen so many cases like your friends.
You may be familiar with the cycle of violence theory. Power and control are in place before any physical abuse starts. This guy is telling your friend that he hates her and she is worthless. On some level, your friend can begin to buy into this.
These remarks can escalate to increased verbal abuse and ultimate physical abuse.
What we know is that there are periods of reconciliation or a "honeymoon" phase after an abusive episode where the batterer is remorseful and promises to not do it again. The battered person continues to stay in the relationship.
What is true about these situations unfortunately is that over time the violence escalates and the cycles of abuse come quicker- the honeymoon phase hardly lasts.
I don''t know if your friend was knocked around while she was pregnant, but sadly 25% of battered women are pregnant women.
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While I worked at this shelter, there were several cases where pregnant women came into shelter and barely got there in time give birth-- they had been beaten throughout their pregnancy and for the protection of their children finally left a violent home.
I really agree with Fire and Ice''s suggestion of calling a shelter and asking for some advice. There are confidential hot lines with trained people to assist you.
Ask your friend to have a safety plan put in place: gather all important documents, id cards, social security cards, children''s birth certificates, bank account info, money, clothing, and significant personal items etc. and have them together so she can take off when she''s ready or if it gets really crazy and she has to flee. At the shelter I worked at, there were a number of women who came literally with only the clothing on their backs. A safe place that she can go to where he is not likely to look for her.
When I was going through my training, I was told that the time when a woman flees an abusive home this the most dangerous period for her. We never know how a violent person will respond to this. Some batterers just let the person go, and others go on a rampage threatening the victim''s loved ones and friends, and some batterers threaten to hurt themselves hoping that the victim will stay out of guilt.
I know that laws vary state to state, but in many cases if law enforcement are called into an incident, the batterer is held in jail for a limited time 48 hrs. or 72 hrs.- this might be the time where a victim can flee. Also, if there is an incident report this gets sent to a district attorney. Many district attorneys have a "no drop" policy in that they pursue prosecution even if the victim does not want to press charges. Domestic violence is taken this seriously by the law. Domestic violence can kill.
I don''t know where you live Tawn, I am sure there are local contacts for you to call for advice. Or, contact the Family Violence Prevention Fund, a national organization.
Best of luck to you and your friend.
 
Look up battered women's shelter.
Call your county dept of mental health.
Bring her to the shelter when he's away.
Don't tell him.
He must not know where she is.

Get her help.
Get her out.

Careers are less important.
Help her.

If she won't go get phone numbers of battered woman hotlines.
Give her the phone numbers.
 
and adding to that: the victim seems to remember the ''honeymoon'' phase as being so good and feeling so loved, no matter how short it lasts. she remembers this even with the broken lip and black eye.

have the resource list and make sure she has a copy as well.


peace, movie zombie
 
This dont fit too well here but oh well,
The question is what do I do...
Lets put it this way one of my sisters boy friends once hit her...
He ended up in the hospital with 60 stitches in his head with a warning that next time he wouldn''t survive it.
Cops didn''t care to do much about it either.

Second one:
neighbor hit his girlfriend in the stomach while they were standing on the porch sceaming at each other just as I was walking out the door and a cop car was coming around the corner.
I caught his arm as he was going to hit her again, he swung at me.
He got his nose broke, then arrested.
I got told its not a good idea to hit creeps in the face the DA don''t like it, i said ok next time ill break his arm can I go now.
Answer was yep.
He ended up going to jail on other charges for 5 years and she moved on.

Sometimes direct action is the best action.
 
Unfortunately, I''m learning the hard way that there is nothing that an outsider can do in a situation like this.

My little sister is stuck with an abusive, manipulating OLDER man- it''s not even fair to call him a man- he''a a sludge bucket. He''s 34, she''s 21 and they''ve been going back and forth like this for 3 years. My sis know that what he does and what he says is wrong, but always gets sucked back him.

He slapped her this weekend as well- So she left him and came to my house. I did everything I could to be there for her and to help her through this, but when I woke up Sunday Morning- she had snuck out my house and went back to him. I''m crushed. This is the 3rd time in as many months that we''ve been through this and it''s taking a huge toll on me emotionally.

I love my sister, but I feel like there is nothing more I can do for her. She has to help herself.
 
Date: 12/6/2005 9:16:32 AM
Author: IndiBlue
Unfortunately, I''m learning the hard way that there is nothing that an outsider can do in a situation like this.

My little sister is stuck with an abusive, manipulating OLDER man- it''s not even fair to call him a man- he''a a sludge bucket. He''s 34, she''s 21 and they''ve been going back and forth like this for 3 years. My sis know that what he does and what he says is wrong, but always gets sucked back him.

He slapped her this weekend as well- So she left him and came to my house. I did everything I could to be there for her and to help her through this, but when I woke up Sunday Morning- she had snuck out my house and went back to him. I''m crushed. This is the 3rd time in as many months that we''ve been through this and it''s taking a huge toll on me emotionally.

I love my sister, but I feel like there is nothing more I can do for her. She has to help herself.
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This girl is definitely in the same sort of place as your sister. She says she loves him and doesn''t want a divorce...I''m just scared of what sort of incident it will take for her to leave him. She honestly doesn''t seem scared that he''ll really hurt her though. Just because he''s "only" slapped her around every once in a while for 10 yrs doesn''t convince me that he''s not capable of worse.

I asked her if he was going to be really nice to her and swear never to do it again, and she says that it''s the oposite and that he won''t talk to her for several days after....because it''s her fault she pushed him that far, and she''s the one that has to apologize to make things right. That''s really messed up!!

She didn''t return my call yesterday, so I''m wondering if she told him she told me? She goes to whatever site needs her for her work, so I can''t just stop in and see her either! I''ll get some information ready for her, and then wait for her to return my call...

Yesterday I told my husband how much I appreciate that I feel so safe and loved...and that I know I can do or say anything, no matter how outrageous, and he''d never lay a hand on me. That''s something that I usually just take for granted and don''t even really think about! He''s a good guy...even if he leaves his dirty socks everywhere!
 
Date: 12/6/2005 9:16:32 AM
Author: IndiBlue
Unfortunately, I''m learning the hard way that there is nothing that an outsider can do in a situation like this.

My little sister is stuck with an abusive, manipulating OLDER man- it''s not even fair to call him a man- he''a a sludge bucket. He''s 34, she''s 21 and they''ve been going back and forth like this for 3 years. My sis know that what he does and what he says is wrong, but always gets sucked back him.

He slapped her this weekend as well- So she left him and came to my house. I did everything I could to be there for her and to help her through this, but when I woke up Sunday Morning- she had snuck out my house and went back to him. I''m crushed. This is the 3rd time in as many months that we''ve been through this and it''s taking a huge toll on me emotionally.

I love my sister, but I feel like there is nothing more I can do for her. She has to help herself.
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IndiBlue, you tried. that''s the best you can do.

she will be better helped by people who are trained and not emotionally involved with her. this is true whether it is a family member or friend.

i know it is hard to watch someone you care for go down this path but, unfortunately, it is her path. when she does finally make the effort to get counseling, into a support group, leaves him for good, etc. that is when you can be there for her.

peace, movie zombie
 
lead pipe once to each hand hard he never hits anyone again.
Maybe i was born a 100 years too late.
Why do guys(some gals too) do that crap, because they can and get by with it.
When they learn the hard way they cant do it they stop, too bad now days the other person is usualy dead before that happens.
 
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