What Does Ethical Mean to You?

[ElleK]

Frankly, there are a TON of things going on in the jewelry trade that are unethical. So much so, that fair wages for the people at the bottom of the totem pole (miners) is one of the more obvious ones, but there are a whole bunch of employees between miners and the actual consumers that consumers never even consider when thinking of "fair trade".

I appreciate many of the cutters who have posted here about flying to the countries of origin and actually buying directly from the miners themselves. I don't want to name any names due to my *trade* status, but many of the long-time posters know who I'm talking about. Hats off to those guys!

 

[Marlow]

Frankly, there are a TON of things going on in the jewelry trade that are unethical. So much so, that fair wages for the people at the bottom of the totem pole (miners) is one of the more obvious ones, but there are a whole bunch of employees between miners and the actual consumers that consumers never even consider when thinking of "fair trade".

I appreciate many of the cutters who have posted here about flying to the countries of origin and actually buying directly from the miners themselves. I don't want to name any names due to my *trade* status, but many of the long-time posters know who I'm talking about. Hats off to those guys!

Excellent post!!

But even the gem you buy in the Market in Ratnapura could be stolen - employees make "own" business and steal stones from the cutting factory - I bought a small taaffeite - turned out to be a sapphire - we believe after counting and weighting the stones somebody took the taaffeite and put a similar sapphire ( weight) in the bag. The vendor is a poor guy course number and weight is the same - but he is responsible selling a wrong stone...- just an example.

100% ethical sourced and traded gems from South America, Asia or Africa - forget it!!

 

[chrono]

I don't understand why sellers photoshop their gems. Don't they just get the gems returned back when they are not as described? Seems like such a waste of time and energy. But I see it. every. day.

They are banking on a specific type of customer -
Those that feel badly about returns so they hang onto the gem.
Those that are affected by additional shipping and tax considerations, so they'd rather keep than return.

 

[corundummy]

Frankly, there are a TON of things going on in the jewelry trade that are unethical. So much so, that fair wages for the people at the bottom of the totem pole (miners) is one of the more obvious ones, but there are a whole bunch of employees between miners and the actual consumers that consumers never even consider when thinking of "fair trade".

I appreciate many of the cutters who have posted here about flying to the countries of origin and actually buying directly from the miners themselves. I don't want to name any names due to my *trade* status, but many of the long-time posters know who I'm talking about. Hats off to those guys!

Excellent post!!

But even the gem you buy in the Market in Ratnapura could be stolen - employees make "own" business and steal stones from the cutting factory - I bought a small taaffeite - turned out to be a sapphire - we believe after counting and weighting the stones somebody took the taaffeite and put a similar sapphire ( weight) in the bag. The vendor is a poor guy course number and weight is the same - but he is responsible selling a wrong stone...- just an example.

100% ethical sourced and traded gems from South America, Asia or Africa - forget it!!

So if I'd like to buy ethically sourced gems should I stick to Australia and the US? Is it reasonable to assume that all mines from those countries abide by local laws and all workers receive fair compensation?

 

[minousbijoux]

Corundummy, I imagine that what Marlow was saying is that in the areas of the world he mentioned, it would be a near impossibility to get an accurate accounting and chain of responsibility from mine to finished stone. I do not, however, think that he was saying the converse is true for the other countries.

 

[Marlow]

Corundummy, I imagine that what Marlow was saying is that in the areas of the world he mentioned, it would be a near impossibility to get an accurate accounting and chain of responsibility from mine to finished stone. I do not, however, think that he was saying the converse is true for the other countries.

Exactly !!

 

[corundummy]

So if the "ethics" of the stone is important to me (as much as clarity or color) where would I buy it? From some of the sellers that own mines in the US/Australia? Or is it just not realistic to try and buy a stone based on ethics at all?

 

[T L]

So if the "ethics" of the stone is important to me (as much as clarity or color) where would I buy it? From some of the sellers that own mines in the US/Australia? Or is it just not realistic to try and buy a stone based on ethics at all?

If you can prove that the stone came from a country like the United States, Canada, or Australia by internal inclusions specific to the gem origin, (some claim to be, but are not), then at least there's probably no human rights violations/abuses in obtaining the gems. That doesn't rule out mining issues, and the harm on the environment. Again, it's not 100% fool proof, but I would avoid stones from any third world countries, or Asia, Africa, etc. . .

 

[deskjockey]

So if the "ethics" of the stone is important to me (as much as clarity or color) where would I buy it? From some of the sellers that own mines in the US/Australia? Or is it just not realistic to try and buy a stone based on ethics at all?

I think if that stuff is important, buying from people like you mention may be the best option. But I don't think there's any 100% option.

I mean, I got my ering stone from someone whose family has been in the business for decades. They pulled it out of the ground and she cut it, but lots of her stones are sent overseas for heating and cutting (with "family friends" but what guarantee of anything is that?)?

And buying locally or from mine owners doesn't always address possible land use and environmental issues.

And then, there are occasions where things may have been collected by otherwise upstanding individuals, with no forced labor or environmental degredation, but in places where they were not supposed to be and where it might (read: is) even be illegal to remove anything like that. I might have a few tiny, interesting pieces of rough (uncuttable, LOL) that came from such a situation, won't mention who I got them from (LOL).

I think ultimately we do the best we can do with the understanding that there is no 100% perfect situation. We investigate what we can and make choices based on what we're comfortable with. I think it's probably important that the people who have experience on the ground in and around mining areas are open with with what they've seen and experienced there. I actually find that some of those experiences and explanations have gone a long way in making me more comfortable with where my stones come from. Not 100%, but I also have to face the fact that my inexpensive clothes, coffee, chocolate, and other consumer products may have roots as bad or worse. Global consumer society isn't always pretty, unfortunately.

 

[LD]

So if the "ethics" of the stone is important to me (as much as clarity or color) where would I buy it? From some of the sellers that own mines in the US/Australia? Or is it just not realistic to try and buy a stone based on ethics at all?

This is the main problem. Very very very few mine owners actually sell direct to the public. A stone has typically gone through 10-30 hands before getting to you.

Best case scenario, you research a mine/owner to determine whether you believe they mine ethically (and the chances of getting independent information that covers all angles is slight), then that mine has to sell to cutters who may only want a small amount of rough, then you find a lapidarist who is near to that mine who can go and pick the rough for you (to avoid switching), then he/she has to cut it personally or you have to investigate that person to ensure that if they employ people they do so ethically etc......... then you may have a chance of being assured of getting an ethically mined gemstone BUT you are seriously limited to what stones you can buy and from where.

 

[upcyclist]

To me, the most important ethics are personal ethics. As a trade guy (well, technically, at least--it's not like I'm high-volume), I will tell a customer exactly what I can verify, what i believe to be true, and what I have no knowledge of. When knowledge needs to shift from "believe" to "verify", I get a cert. If I sell you an aquamarine and I don't have positive info, I'll tell you it was most likely heated, but I can't say for sure.

The vagaries of "mining ethics" are just too hard to quantify and rate. So I don't even try.

For example, I recently cut an emerald that I strongly believe was unoiled. I didn't use any oil when I cut it, either. So, before I sent it off to AGL, I would tell people that I didn't add any oil, and I trust the ethics & rigor of the vendor who told me it was unoiled. If a potential customer asked me about how the miner who found it was treated and paid, I simply have no idea and would tell you that. There are a couple cutters/rough dealers (and only a couple at this point) who I trust if they say they met the miner and that company's operation was a good one. But even that is still hearsay by the time I relay that to a customer. Do I care if everyone in the supply chain is treated fairly and is on the level? Absolutely. Can I really control it most of the time? No. Perhaps someday when I'm the Jacques Cousteau of the gem world, but not now.

Oh, and the AGL Prestige report said they couldn't detect any oil. Yay! hahaha

So, if you ask questions, and I answer honestly, that's generally as much as I can get you in terms of "ethical". And I won't pretend to do any more.

 

[corundummy]

I know that it may not make a ton of sense, but for luxury goods (vacations, clothes, hobby stuff) I find it's often a priority for me to try and get an item I feel at least ok about ethically (for me that's environmentally first, followed closely by "fair trade"). I suppose it stems from some half cooked logic that if it's a consumable I don't really need, I should at least reduce the negative impact.

My partner feels even more strongly about these issues, so it makes the ethics an even more prominent factor because I'm searching for a gem to include in jewelry for her. I know recognize this is likely to be difficult and it's probable that I'll settle for a situation where I have limited information.

For those that have been in the industry a long time, has there been any real change in workplace/environmental practices? Can you realistically imagine a day with fair trade/eco-responsible gems?

 

[LD]

I know that it may not make a ton of sense, but for luxury goods (vacations, clothes, hobby stuff) I find it's often a priority for me to try and get an item I feel at least ok about ethically (for me that's environmentally first, followed closely by "fair trade"). I suppose it stems from some half cooked logic that if it's a consumable I don't really need, I should at least reduce the negative impact.

My partner feels even more strongly about these issues, so it makes the ethics an even more prominent factor because I'm searching for a gem to include in jewelry for her. I know recognize this is likely to be difficult and it's probable that I'll settle for a situation where I have limited information.

For those that have been in the industry a long time, has there been any real change in workplace/environmental practices? Can you realistically imagine a day with fair trade/eco-responsible gems?

Honestly not really and no.

 

[ElleK]

I know that it may not make a ton of sense, but for luxury goods (vacations, clothes, hobby stuff) I find it's often a priority for me to try and get an item I feel at least ok about ethically (for me that's environmentally first, followed closely by "fair trade"). I suppose it stems from some half cooked logic that if it's a consumable I don't really need, I should at least reduce the negative impact.

My partner feels even more strongly about these issues, so it makes the ethics an even more prominent factor because I'm searching for a gem to include in jewelry for her. I know recognize this is likely to be difficult and it's probable that I'll settle for a situation where I have limited information.

For those that have been in the industry a long time, has there been any real change in workplace/environmental practices? Can you realistically imagine a day with fair trade/eco-responsible gems?

I understand what you're trying to get at. But it's just not realistic in the gem trade or really even any other trade.

Even here in the United States, there are workers who are not paid a living wage (Cesar Chavez ring a bell?) and other workers who are paid an unfair wage, but that is capitalism. Not an excuse, just a fact. Who is to say what is fair? This discussion could get very political, and it's already very philosophical.

I don't know that you would have read anything relating to Thomas Keller, the chef, but his philosophy with food is interesting. He buys the best that he can from smaller purveyors who are passionate about their product (mushrooms, fish, etc). His philosophy with using the best and most fresh product he can find is that mistakes shouldn't be made, as it is too much waste. And by waste, he explained, it's not just the (for example) duck breast. It's the waste of the meat itself but also the life that was in that meat, the effort of the purveyor, the water the animal drank, the grain the animal ate, the farmer who grew that grain, the water that went into the grain, the nutrients from the dirt that went into that grain, the sun's energy, etc. So Mr. Keller lives with an immense sense of respect for his product and the lives, time and effort it took to create it.

My point in bringing him up is that he does his absolute best to create the best food possible and goes as far back into the supply chain as he possibly can. Unless you pull the stone out of the ground yourself...you don't know where it has been and how many lives have touched it. Responsibility in your choices and educating yourself on the issues is one thing, proof of "fairness" is an entirely different thing.

And lets not even get started talking about metals. I will say that buying gems and jewelry is not at all a responsible choice as far as the environment is concerned.

 

[corundummy]

Thanks LD and ElleW.

I recognize that buying a gem is ecologically reprehensible, but I still have to put something sparkly on that finger. I think I'll gravitate towards countries that have more robust governmental control. Baring that, I'll probably go with an estate piece so the damage done can be shared amongst multiple owners

 

[arkieb1]

So if the "ethics" of the stone is important to me (as much as clarity or color) where would I buy it? From some of the sellers that own mines in the US/Australia? Or is it just not realistic to try and buy a stone based on ethics at all?

Depends what you are trying to buy - for a diamond mined from Australia or Canada yes you can for coloured gemstones a high percentage of what we see here comes from Asia anyway unless you are talking opals or dark and parti coloured sapphires. There are a few lesser known gemstones like Aquamarines, topaz, garnets, spinels and others mined here in Australia but most are frequently highly included and often don't have the colours we see from the rest of the world, unless we are talking about something like Chrysoprase which we have stunning examples of mined ethically in Australia.

 

[arkieb1]

My in laws said these days many of the mines in Australia and the US have been bought by interests overseas or they get the products cut there for cheap labour - for example here is Aussie Chrysoprase Mine in Queensland Australia but the rough is cut polished and sold from a factory China;

http://www.poyuengems.com/factory_guang.htm

Not all Chrysoprase mines work this way I know of a family owned one that employs Aussie works and everything is done here, but it is an example that even when you are trying to by "ethically" mined or produced goods from countries you think or assume are ethically aware or have higher standards (both mining and production) this is not always the case and it can be more complex than that....

 

[PieAreSquared]

Thanks LD and ElleW.

I recognize that buying a gem is ecologically reprehensible, but I still have to put something sparkly on that finger. I think I'll gravitate towards countries that have more robust governmental control. Baring that, I'll probably go with an estate piece so the damage done can be shared amongst multiple owners

Whoa, "buying a gem is ecologically reprehensible"? That is a pretty dogmatic statement. Can you elaborate on how you reached that conclusion?
Thousands of people in third world countries do make a living wage in the gem industry, which keeps their families alive. Not a wage we would like to make, but a wage nonetheless.
If you are going to take the ecologically irreprehensible approach, take it all the way; don't buy imported clothes (good luck) and don't use paper, it's a huge waste of water. Pulling a gem out of a hole in the ground is harmless by comparison.
Traveling the world has taught me that there are many ways to do things. Not wrong, just different. When we try to measure the rest of humanity with our own set of rules, it doesn't work. If you want to know what is really going on in the world, go out into it, live in it.
The world is not a documentary.

 

[Niel]

I consider mining the earth to be a key component of how ethical it is. To me alluvial gems are more ethical than stones found in primary deposits.

Or "created" stones, that dont require mining.

I also think antique stones are more ethical as they are not putting money into any current mining market. To put it another way, the damage has been done and cannot be undone, but its not contributing to or furthering any unethical treatment, mining, or production.

For example, if buying a new coat, I would never buy a fur coat. Buy from an ethical standpoint, I do believe stumbling upon a 70 year old fur coat at a local antique shop to be more ethical than the labor, shipping, and production materials used to create a brand new coat, though not fur. Is fur wrong? Yes personally I think so. But my money isn't going to the mink farm from 1940, or the fur company that's out of business. These past experiences cannot be changed, but if I want a coat, the least impact on individuals as well ad the earth would be to use something existing.

 

[PieAreSquared]

I consider mining the earth to be a key component of how ethical it is. To me alluvial gems are more ethical than stones found in primary deposits.

Or "created" stones, that dont require mining.

I also think antique stones are more ethical as they are not putting money into any current mining market. To put it another way, the damage has been done and cannot be undone, but its not contributing to or furthering any unethical treatment, mining, or production.

For example, if buying a new coat, I would never buy a fur coat. Buy from an ethical standpoint, I do believe stumbling upon a 70 year old fur coat at a local antique shop to be more ethical than the labor, shipping, and production materials used to create a brand new coat, though not fur. Is fur wrong? Yes personally I think so. But my money isn't going to the mink farm from 1940, or the fur company that's out of business. These past experiences cannot be changed, but if I want a coat, the least impact on individuals as well ad the earth would be to use something existing.

I agree with everything you said niel, with the exception of created stones not requiring mining.

Synthetic corundum for example, requires mining aluminum oxide from bauxite ore. Like this:

 

[Niel]

I consider mining the earth to be a key component of how ethical it is. To me alluvial gems are more ethical than stones found in primary deposits.

Or "created" stones, that dont require mining.

I also think antique stones are more ethical as they are not putting money into any current mining market. To put it another way, the damage has been done and cannot be undone, but its not contributing to or furthering any unethical treatment, mining, or production.

For example, if buying a new coat, I would never buy a fur coat. Buy from an ethical standpoint, I do believe stumbling upon a 70 year old fur coat at a local antique shop to be more ethical than the labor, shipping, and production materials used to create a brand new coat, though not fur. Is fur wrong? Yes personally I think so. But my money isn't going to the mink farm from 1940, or the fur company that's out of business. These past experiences cannot be changed, but if I want a coat, the least impact on individuals as well ad the earth would be to use something existing.

I agree with everything you said niel, with the exception of created stones not requiring mining.

Synthetic corundum for example, requires mining aluminum oxide from bauxite ore. Like this:

Thank you for posting that, I had always thought about the issue of using resources to create lab grown stones, but I hadn't specifically thought about the mining.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I visited a Tsavorite Garnet mine outside of Arusha in Tanzania. At first you felt really bad for the guys working there. The living conditions were bad compared to what we are used to. This first picture is the "bunk house" where the guys stayed while working the mine.


The guys actually mined in a very environmentally ethical manner. Here is one of the holes the worked. These holes could go a few hundred yards both into the side of the hill and down. So the impact on the surface was really minimal.


After talking with them, and sharing a very warm bottle of beer, they were very glad to have the work at the mine, and didn't want to see any more modern mining methods used. These guys worked hard, but also made some money. They were very good natured, friendly and were always joking around.

 

[LD]

I visited a Tsavorite Garnet mine outside of Arusha in Tanzania. At first you felt really bad for the guys working there. The living conditions were bad compared to what we are used to. This first picture is the "bunk house" where the guys stayed while working the mine.


The guys actually mined in a very environmentally ethical manner. Here is one of the holes the worked. These holes could go a few hundred yards both into the side of the hill and down. So the impact on the surface was really minimal.


After talking with them, and sharing a very warm bottle of beer, they were very glad to have the work at the mine, and didn't want to see any more modern mining methods used. These guys worked hard, but also made some money. They were very good natured, friendly and were always joking around.

Thank you Gene for posting that. As I said in one of my earlier posts, we try to apply our "standards" to other countries and it's just not applicable.

 

[LD]

This is a Bauxite Mine in Turkey that I was lucky to visit a few years ago so not all Bauxite is mined as suggested above . As a bi-product, it produces Csarite / Zultanite. The working conditions are very good for the miners.

 

[PieAreSquared]

I visited a Tsavorite Garnet mine outside of Arusha in Tanzania. At first you felt really bad for the guys working there. The living conditions were bad compared to what we are used to. This first picture is the "bunk house" where the guys stayed while working the mine.


The guys actually mined in a very environmentally ethical manner. Here is one of the holes the worked. These holes could go a few hundred yards both into the side of the hill and down. So the impact on the surface was really minimal.


After talking with them, and sharing a very warm bottle of beer, they were very glad to have the work at the mine, and didn't want to see any more modern mining methods used. These guys worked hard, but also made some money. They were very good natured, friendly and were always joking around.

Thank you Gene for posting that. As I said in one of my earlier posts, we try to apply our "standards" to other countries and it's just not applicable.

Exactly.

 

[MollyMalone]

My in laws said these days many of the mines in Australia and the US have been bought by interests overseas or they get the products cut there for cheap labour * * *

I'd be interested in learning where they heard this about the US (think they are in Australia?). Although the US is now producing nearly twice as many synthetic gemstones than 5 years ago, the recovery of natural gemstones -- and the US Department of the Interior's stats on "gemstones" include river pearls, petrified wood, gem mineral specimens, i.e., not just stones suitable for jewelry -- has fallen somewhat. Don't think we have contributed even 1% of the world's estimated production in recent years.

There's been virtually no commercial gem mines of any real scale here for quite some time. The vast majority are mom-and-pop type of operations; many of these offer pay-to-dig to rockhounds and tourists to supplement income from the owners' family labors. Often in locations that can't be worked year-round because of the climate. Even accounting for seasonal workers, the US Department of the Interior reports that our domestic, gemstone mining "industry" employs only about 1100 people nationwide.

So it's hard for me to imagine that overseas investors with gemological interests see US operations, such as they are, as worthwhile targets.

 

[arkieb1]

Hmmmm maybe they were thinking about all mining in the US ie minerals as well as gemstones. I don't know.... I have read some of your gemstone miners do send items to other countries having said that to get stones cut and polished in places like South America and Asia. I have seen a number (many of them recommended on here) that mine and cut and polish the stones themselves or that sell the rough to US cutters. Your labour costs are much cheaper than ours are and your minimum wage is much less than our is, so its not difficult to agree with your POV.

I also agree that ethical can mean different things to different people "ethical" in one of the poorer countries might be defined more basically as the workers getting a wage to feed and house a family rather than what we consider a "decent wage" and making sure the site does not have vast negative impacts on the environment around it.

Dinosaur fossils is another interesting example, that for years went unregulated, or even when it was regulated laws were broken anyway. People dug up, stole and shipped items from Asia and Europe to the Western world or to whoever would pay top dollar for them..... Australia has very strict laws now around the importation of fossils.

The point is the general public can think they are buying "ethically" when in fact they are not. They can be misled about how gemstones, and fossils were sourced. And as posters above me have pointed out how do you even measure being ethical when our standards cannot be easily applied to third world countries.

 

[MollyMalone]

Hmmmm maybe they were thinking about all mining in the US ie minerals as well as gemstones. I don't know.... I have read some of your gemstone miners do send items to other countries having said that to get stones cut and polished in places like South America and Asia. I have seen a number (many of them recommended on here) that mine and cut and polish the stones themselves or that sell the rough to US cutters. Probably more so than in Australia, as your labour costs are cheaper than ours are and your minimum wage is much less than our is.

Now that I think more about this, I have sometimes seen Oregon sunstones in Jeff Davies' (based in Bangkok) eBay listings & I trust these really are Oregon sunstones, not ersatz ones like some Thai and Indian vendors peddle on eBay. And I imagine the Arizona peridots on the Gemfix site -- that aren't described as being cut by Andrew Gulij himself, in California, or as "American cutting" -- were probably cut in SE Asia. I wish all the vendors were as conscientious as, e.g., Dana Reynolds (Mastercut Gems); he affirmatively states if a listed stone was cut overseas should that matter to a prospective purchaser.

On the more general topic, here's the PDF of a thought-provoking, PowerPoint presentation that Vincent Pardieu
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/vincent-pardieu/2B/7A3/869
made at the 2011 International Colored Gemstones Association meeting in Brazil that was devoted to Ethical Mining and Fair Trade:
http://www.gemstone.org/images/files/congress2011/Vicent Pardieu.pdf

 

[BaileyC]

What ethical is in this context is so difficult to answer as many have pointed out there are so many considerations, perspectives, etc. There are a lot of good thoughts here, and the discussion is thought provoking. Since I can’t solve the problems of the world, the best course of action I can take in this or any other area of my life is to first look to myself and follow my own heart and conscience, and to do my best to set an example for my family. Free and open discussion about this or anything fosters creative thinking, and is ultimately the catalyst for change.

Like PrecisionGem and others have pointed out, one cannot always apply Western sensibilities to another culture or country. I have visited exceptionally poor areas and was amazed at what I took away from the experience. I initially interpreted their plight and living conditions through my own lens, and was prepared to do whatever I could to help (donations, volunteer, etc.). And what I discovered was that it was THEY who changed me the most through heartwarming displays of community, family and genuine love for one another. I know everyone says that, but you never know how true it is until you experience it for yourself - it was a wakeup call to me to remember what is most important, and I try to keep that humbling experience and lesson with me always.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I guess I think about ethical behavior in the mining industry mostly in terms of how gov'ts that control diamond and gem mines use the proceeds from that enterprise. In some instances the funds are used to perpetrate war/and/or atrocities on others. I would try to avoid buying gems from those areas. Certainly diamonds fall into that category. However , the Kimberly process is subverted, and everyone seems to be aware of this. So I don't know how you can really tell.

I read a book many yrs ago that enlightened me to how a dirt poor culture responded to their own poverty. It was called, "City of Joy", about life in Calcutta slums. As Baily and Gene have said, the people find their own happiness, just by being with one another. Of course, the people in the book did need help, as even in third world countries some poverty is unacceptable. I thought the book might be depressing, but instead, it was enlightening. ( a bit off topic, I know)

Annette