What is precious topaz? Imperial topaz?

[Indylady]

I''ve seen a variety of shades be described as precious or imperial topaz. Can anyone tell me how different colors and types of topaz are named? This Modern Jeweler article says "Today it is conceded that the term “imperial” refers, among connoisseurs, to stones with sherry-red, deep pink and reddish-orange colors and generally excludes less intense but still beautiful peach-orange and medium golden hues." Is there anything more that I should know? Where does a medium pink fall? How rare is red topaz, and is it called imperial topaz, or red topaz?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[DistinctionJewelry]

My favorite dealer of Brazilian gems calls the golden colors precious topaz (to differentiate them from white, blue, etc. less valuable topazes), and says the term imperial topaz should only be used for stones with a distinct pink or red hue as part of their makeup. He would consider a golden pink stone imperial. When buying in Brazil, he says those are the terms used by the trade but that people will often try to sell him "imperial topaz" which is simply golden precious topaz.

I don''t know if those definitions are accepted universally though.

 

[VapidLapid]

Excellent question Indy! I have been wondering the exact same thing this week and hoped that someone would start a thread. I do not know what the difference is, if there is a difference or if there as many different answers as there are cleavage planes. I have heard that "true" imperial topaz is colored by gold ions in the crystal lattice, but I don''t know if that is "true" or even possible, and if possible then relevant. I have filed that answer away under Heresay->Gossip and continue to wonder the reality of topaz. I am embarrassed to say that Imp Topaz is even my birthstone yet I understand it no more than myself. I did find this very clear and informative article about Imp T at Pala

topaz

 

[Roger Dery]

Hi Indy,
Here''s a photo I took recently of what I believe is what most in the trade would refer to as: Precious Topaz. I will follow with a photo of what most would consider "Imperial".

 

[Roger Dery]

Indy,
As noted in an earlier post, the Imperial Topaz will have some red component to them. Of course, if they are strongly influenced by the red, they can become quite pricey. I took this photo in 2001 and these Topaz's are long gone.

 

[platinumrock]

Great thread! I''ve been wondering the same thing since topaz is my birthstone. I''d love to own a true imperial topaz one day!

I absolutely love the pinkish/reddish/sherry hue!

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 3/26/2010 10:40:27 PM
Author: Roger Dery
Indy,
As noted in an earlier post, the Imperial Topaz will have some red component to them. Of course, if they are strongly influenced by the red, they can become quite pricey. I took this photo in 2001 and these Topaz''s are long gone.

OMG, look at that pear!

 

[zeolite]

Here are two links, with quotes from each link below:

www.palagems.com/topaz_buyers_guide.htm
Honoring Brazilian royalty, the gemstone was frequently referred to as “imperial” topaz.

Often the stone has been confused with the more common citrine … Later some sources called it “precious” topaz. Both terms have endured, partly because gem merchants wish to impart to customers the difference between gem topaz and citrine quartz.

http://www.bernardine.com/gemstones/topaz.htm
Red and pink topaz gems were used in the jewelry of the 18th and 19th Century Russian Czarinas and is why topaz is sometimes called "Imperial Topaz".

Now my comments:

The term precious topaz is not to distinguish between blue or white and golden. In former times, citrine was sold as topaz-quartz or fraudulently, as topaz. The term precious topaz is used to clearly identify it as topaz, and not quartz. Golden to orange topaz is colored by iron, not gold. Peach, pink or red is colored by varying amounts of iron and chromium.

I disagree with the first quote and agree with the second, that imperial topaz was named for the magnificent and long depleted Russian topaz, treasured by the Czarinas. The Russian topaz contains considerable chromium, and has an intense pink color. There was a famous pink topaz Russian necklace and matching earrings that was on the cover of a very old Gems & Gemology issue. I saw that necklace in person, touched and inspected it. It was offered for sale in Tucson (early 1990's??)

What colors are considered "imperial", is not clearly defined. My understanding of the term comes from 25 years of Tucson shows. To me, yellow, golden or brownish orange is not imperial. Pink or red and probably pink-orange is clearly "imperial". Intense orange with little or no brown might be included as imperial.

 

[Indylady]

Thank you all, VL, Distinction, Roger, PR, and Zeolite for your responses!

I think the matter is very clear to me now. I do have one last question. Does pure red topaz exist?

 

[DistinctionJewelry]

I can''t help you on that one - I have never seen a pure red topaz (although I have seen some pictures that come close, all of them had pink or orange modifiers) or even a picture of one. I wouldn''t presume to write off their existence though.

 

[zeolite]

Date: 3/27/2010 8:54:38 PM
Author: IndyLady
Thank you all, VL, Distinction, Roger, PR, and Zeolite for your responses!

I think the matter is very clear to me now. I do have one last question. Does pure red topaz exist?

In the sense of pure intense red, without the slightest trace of brown, like a superb ruby, no.

But quite a beautiful red, with slight traces of brown, yes, but very very rarely. I saw in person, in Tucson, about 1988, a bicolor orange red topaz, trapezoid shape, about 10 cts. Way back then, it was priced at $20,000 wholesale. It was pictured in one of David Federman's gem articles in Modern Jeweler.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 3/28/2010 12:55:21 PM
Author: zeolite

Date: 3/27/2010 8:54:38 PM
Author: IndyLady
Thank you all, VL, Distinction, Roger, PR, and Zeolite for your responses!

I think the matter is very clear to me now. I do have one last question. Does pure red topaz exist?

In the sense of pure intense red, without the slightest trace of brown, like a superb ruby, no.

But quite a beautiful red, with slight traces of brown, yes, but very very rarely. I saw in person, in Tucson, about 1988, a bicolor orange red topaz, trapezoid shape, about 10 cts. Way back then, it was priced at $20,000 wholesale. It was pictured in one of David Federman''s gem articles in Modern Jeweler.

I''ve seen some pretty red imperial topaz!

I saw a suite of 4 stones cut by John Dyer a couple of years ago (actually held them in my hand for a minute or so until I found out their cost!). Let''s just say $20K wouldn''t have gotten you one of them!

Gorgeous stones, good job I prefer them to be a little more on the peachy side.

Have you got any to show us Mr Z?

 

[T L]

Date: 3/28/2010 12:55:21 PM
Author: zeolite

Date: 3/27/2010 8:54:38 PM
Author: IndyLady
Thank you all, VL, Distinction, Roger, PR, and Zeolite for your responses!

I think the matter is very clear to me now. I do have one last question. Does pure red topaz exist?

In the sense of pure intense red, without the slightest trace of brown, like a superb ruby, no.

But quite a beautiful red, with slight traces of brown, yes, but very very rarely. I saw in person, in Tucson, about 1988, a bicolor orange red topaz, trapezoid shape, about 10 cts. Way back then, it was priced at $20,000 wholesale. It was pictured in one of David Federman's gem articles in Modern Jeweler.

I would imagine it's priced more for rarity than saturation of red color. There are many gems that are reddish with slight traces of brown, that can be had for far less $$$. Even Mahenge spinels are less per carat at this time. I do think imperial topaz is quite lovely, but $20K/ct wholesale for a reddish stone with a touch of brown?

I was watching Gem Shopping Network recently (I know, me bad

), and they had a 1.8 ct for $2700. Admittedly it looked very much like an average pink tourmaline. You could see the pinkish color, like the photo of the pear above, but it wasn't saturated pink. Too much money for that color IMO unless you're into it for the rarity.

 

[lasscreative]

That is my pink topaz, It is untreated and unheated from Pakistan. It is 3.67ct

What type of topaz is mine. I am really considering getting a AGS certificate for it, what do you think?

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 3/28/2010 6:26:07 PM
Author: lasscreative

That is my pink topaz, It is untreated and unheated from Pakistan. It is 3.67ct

What type of topaz is mine. I am really considering getting a AGS certificate for it, what do you think?

What a beautiful shade of pink! If I remember correctly, weren''t you in a process of setting this as a pendant?

 

[zeolite]

Wow, lasscreative, that is a beautiful topaz! I love the cut! It would be precious topaz, not imperial, but what it gives away in color, it gains back in brilliance. I''d love to have it to add to my topaz collection!

 

[DistinctionJewelry]

Zeolite, your collection is amazing! I especially love the last one you posted

Lasscreative, that''s the prettiest natural pink topaz I''ve ever seen - gorgeous!

Wouldn''t that be simply pink topaz, not imperial or precious? And by that I''m not implying less valuable, as what you have is a very fine and rare gem, but I guess I think of pink topaz as, well, pink topaz.

 

[lasscreative]

Wow, thank you so much for your compliments!

Means a lot from you Zeolite wanting to add my one to your AMAZING collection!

Yes, I am suppose to be setting it into a pendant, but the darn thing is so beautiful, I can not think of a setting suitable enough and plus most of my sketches involves putting a pear shaped diamond above it, so that also needs to be decent in size! I also have ideas of putting a vivid yellow diamond above it too!

I just cannot choose!!!

 

[Barrett]

I was told by my contact in Ouro Preto who i get my purple topaz from that the term "imperial" means it must have red, pink, or purple/lavendar..without any one of those colors then no imperial

 

[Barrett]

I have been having this ongoing discussion with her for a few months now..first it had to do with the colors and what should or could be called impoerial..i on one hand saying red, pink, and purple..her on the other hand saying yellow, orange, and gold including the first colors i mentioned..well her argument is that an imperial topaz has nothing to do with color but due to the tiny micro inclusions in the crystals..that an imperial topaz regardless of color will have these tiny micro flaws and that they are only found in ouro poreto....does anyone have any reference material on this or where I can find this mentioned in some mag, book, or anything? I know and have seen these tiny flaws in many of my ouro preto crystals ..does this only happen in ouro preto material? She said it causes a shimmer which only imperial topaz have..I have not had the opportunity to own or have any real nice gems so couldn't comment on this..does anyone have any info on this? **Link removed by moderator. Please refrain from posting blog links**

 

[zeolite]

The following links will show a wide range of colors under this name:

http://www.geo.utexas.edu/courses/347k/redesign/gem_notes/topaz/topaz_main.htm

Imperial topaz which connotes a vivid reddish-orange, but is also sometimes used (incorrectly) to denote a sherry-colored, orangish-brown.

http://www.collectorfinejewelry.com/buyers_guide_topaz.htm

The name “imperial topaz” is said to have originated in the 19th century in Russia, where the Ural Mountain mines were an important source. According to some sources, pink topaz from those mines was restricted to the family of the Czar. Today, the gem trade generally uses the term for pink, orange and red topaz, which comes mainly from Ouro Prêto, Brazil. Fine pink topaz also comes from the Katlang area of Pakistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz

Imperial topaz is yellow, pink (rare, if natural) or pink-orange. Brazilian Imperial Topaz can often have a bright yellow to deep golden brown hue, sometimes even violet.

I quite disagree with considering yellow as imperial

http://facets.wordpress.com/2006/11/01/imperial-topaz-birthstone-for-november/

Imperial topaz – sherry colored varieties of brownish-yellow, orangish yellow and reddish brown – are the most popular topaz stones and command high prices, as do pink colored stones.

I don''t consider any topaz with more than faint brown as imperial.

http://www.silvershake.com/store/Topaz/silver_jewelry_definition.htm

''Imperial Topaz'' is the most coveted of all the Topaz family. Its name is used to denote colors that fall between a scintillating golden orange and pink nuance. Of all Imperial Topaz''s hues the most highly prized is the pink variety.

http://www.yourgemologist.com/ISGForumsBoard/archive/index.php?t-1257.html

Imperial Topaz is the term applied to the peach color of topaz that is specifically not heated to improve color. The stone will show darker coloring at the ends (of the oval that is the usual shape).

This is the GIA version of an Imperial Topaz. The rest of the world applies the term to topaz of pink, salmon, champagne, cherry red, and a variety of other rare topaz colors that are often the result of heating the stone to induce these colors. So where you shop may affect the terminology.

her on the other hand saying yellow, orange, and gold including the first colors i mentioned..well her argument is that an imperial topaz has nothing to do with color but due to the tiny micro inclusions in the crystals..that an imperial topaz regardless of color will have these tiny micro flaws and that they are only found in ouro poreto.

The kindest I can say about this, is it is so much BS. It is all about color, and has nothing to do with clarity. About 98% of the crystals from Ouro Preto are full of fracture inclusions (looks like it was shot with birdshot), and are simply not facet grade. It sounds like she is trying to peddle garbage at facet grade imperial topaz prices.

 

[Barrett]

cool..thanks zeo..was hoping to hear from you with a good explaination..appreciate the time you took to do that write-up

I didn't think the "shimmer" and the micro flaws had anything to do with it..did by chance you get to read the link before the mods removed it..sorry ella

 

[Indylady]

Date: 3/28/2010 6:26:07 PM
Author: lasscreative

That is my pink topaz, It is untreated and unheated from Pakistan. It is 3.67ct


What type of topaz is mine. I am really considering getting a AGS certificate for it, what do you think?

Lass, your topaz is beautiful. Is it just me or does it seem a little purple-ish as well?

 

[Richard M.]

I was first introduced to the term "Imperial Topaz" by Dr. Joel E. Arem FGA who spoke at a diamond conference I attended long ago. Dr. Arem is a former staff mineralogist for the Smithsonian Institution and author of several important gem books, including the well known "Color Encyclopedia of Gemstones."

When this topic came up I wrote him to ask his views on the term because of his long involvement with marketing this material. Here''s his reply:

"Hi Rick-
I have seldom seen as much misinformation and total confusion in the gem trade as the mess that surrounds the name "Imperial topaz''.

"The actual origin of the name is fairly obscure, but prevailing wisdom suggests that the only logical derivation is the jewelry worn by the Russian royals. There is IN FACT a deposit in Russia of pink topaz, and reports of some fairly large stones. My company once had an antique piece with a 79 carat pink topaz oval (had a very small inclusion) that was reportedly from the Urals, but the provenance can never be proven with certainty.

"The Brazilian mine called Vermelhao ("vermilion") at Ouro Preto has orange topaz with a trace of chromium that turns it red. This material, when heated, may turn pink. The name ''Imperial'' should ONLY be used with reference to red, pink, or reddish-orange precious topaz. If you have an orange stone and there is NO VISIBLE red color under incandescent illumination, as far as I am concerned you cannot call it Imperial. The yellow-orange material is called precious topaz.

"That''s where I stand on this issue, until someone shows me evidence that my facts are not correct.

Cheers-
Joel Arem"

That''s the definition I''ve used over the years.
Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[Barrett]

Thanks ROM..I have been trying to grasp the term imperial for awhile now..my peers like you and zeo tend to think along the same lines as me with the term but when a plcae like mindat has the yellows and oranges listed as imperial it gives me pause..now i must say mindat is mineral and not gemstone so how much faith should be put in that is anyones guess..i think even Bill Larson calls the yellows/golds/oranges imperial but i can''t seem to find that reference right now..thanks again for taking the time ROM and Zeo to explain and give your point of view

 

[Barrett]

Wanted to add this from Luiz menezes from brazil..he is my go to guy when i need any info or locality info on stones i get from brazil....lol..just contributing to the thread..another differeing opinion

"Imperial topaz was found for the first time in Brazil in 1751, in the area of Ouro Preto (at that time it was still called "Villa Rica", that means "Rich Village", due to the gold deposits that were been exploited there), and was initially called "Brazilian ruby", until it was finally classified as topaz; but it was only in 1763 that this find was made public by the Portuguese kingdom.

There are 2 versions for the adoption of the name "imperial topaz": one is that the first Brazilian emperor, Pedro I, on the early 1830''s travelled to the Ouro Preto area to deal with a rebellion against his ruling and was granted with some of these topaz; one of his close assistants, Jose Boniácio de Andrada e Silva, was a world-class mineralogist (andradite was named after him); the second version is that the name was suggested by Henrique Gorceix, a French mining geologist that was invited by the second Brazilian emperor, Pedro II, to found the first mining school in Brazil, at Ouro Preto, on the late 1870''s; in 1881 Pedro II visited Ouro Preto and then Gorceix granted him a superb crystal of imperial topaz, and they decided to call it "imperial" to emphasize the difference between these genuine topaz from many other yellow gemstones (like citrine) that at that time were being also called "topaz".

At that time there was no Internet and no I.M.A., so it appears to me that both finds (at Ouro Preto and at Russia) occured at about the same time and both topaz were called "imperial" independentely, so I disagree with the assertion that the original "imperial topaz" are only those from Russia.

The several mines at Ouro Preto have produced very large amounts of imperial topaz for more than one century; even now very few pieces have been found in Pakistan and in Russia and the only other locality that has produced a little more (but even though much, much less than Ouro Preto) is located on the border between Zambia and Congo. So imperial topaz is typically a Brazilian stone"

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 4/11/2010 1:18:50 PM
Author: amethystguy
Wanted to add this from Luiz menezes from brazil..he is my go to guy when i need any info or locality info on stones i get from brazil....lol..just contributing to the thread..another differeing opinion

Lol, maybe we should get all these experts into the same room and let them slug it out. I know at least a dozen others who have varying opinions. The price of any given topaz hue is far more important than which royal family it''s named after, if any. That''s really what consumers need to know in order to make good buying decisions.

Any topaz with the modifier "Imperial" brings sometimes vastly higher prices. I recently was offered a beautifully cut red-orange Ouro Preto Imperial about the size of a large walnut for a modest $59,000. Want to add it to your collection, AmGuy? The same seller has some huge gem grade natural Imperial crystals in matrix as well.

The GemGuide classifies the following topaz colors as "Imperial:" yellowish orange, orangy yellow, yellow with overtones of slightly purplish red, red, orangy red, reddish orange, pink. That definition disagrees with Dr. Arem and many others who insist all Imperials must have some red hue.

There''s an enormous amount of flim-flammery where topaz is concerned. Azotically coated white topazes are available cheaply in virtually any color, including red, to fool the unwary. So are several unnatural diffused colors. Consumers really need guidance.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[Barrett]

I wrote this earlier at a different place..here is part of it...lol

"I do like the metamorphic formation myself..gives the ouro preto stones a more rare and unique quality..same with my wanting the red, pink, and purple to only be termed imperial..really i want imperial topaz to be the king of the topaz..I want the name "imperial" to mean something..it..to me gets muddled down with all the yellow, golds, and to a much lesser extent the oranges..there are tons of those crystals and they are cheap..the yellow and golds are a dime a dozen..i don't want Billy joe in Utah finding some orange topaz havimng them cut and calling them "imperial" or Joe bob in Lahore pakistan zapping some peach topaz to orange and calling it "imperial"..so I like the metamorphic idea..like the katlangs and ouro preto are..gives them more uniqueness...I do like the micro-inclusions thing which also is limited to say the zambian/congo and ouro preto..that would also give some precidence(spelled right?) to them.."imperial" the name gives off the air of granduer..of the finer things..the things only say..an imperial or high ranking person would have..and i can tell you a 1 gram puple from ouro preto clean facet rough crystal cost $800-$1000..that is an imperial price and an imperial topaz but a yellow or gold..heck..$15 will get you a clean 2 gram crystal..thats a Plebeian topaz

[edit]..sorry Joe Bob doesn't sound like a very pakistani name..lol..sorry about that

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 4/11/2010 8:52:58 PM
Author: amethystguy
I wrote this earlier at a different place..here is part of it...lol


''I do like the metamorphic formation myself..gives the ouro preto stones a more rare and unique quality..same with my wanting the red, pink, and purple to only be termed imperial..really i want imperial topaz to be the king of the topaz..I want the name ''imperial'' to mean something..it..to me gets muddled down with all the yellow, golds, and to a much lesser extent the oranges..there are tons of those crystals and they are cheap..the yellow and golds are a dime a dozen..i don''t want Billy joe in Utah finding some orange topaz havimng them cut and calling them ''imperial'' or Joe bob in Lahore pakistan zapping some peach topaz to orange and calling it ''imperial''..so I like the metamorphic idea..like the katlangs and ouro preto are..gives them more uniqueness...I do like the micro-inclusions thing which also is limited to say the zambian/congo and ouro preto..that would also give some precidence(spelled right?) to them..''imperial'' the name gives off the air of granduer..of the finer things..the things only say..an imperial or high ranking person would have..and i can tell you a 1 gram puple from ouro preto clean facet rough crystal cost $800-$1000..that is an imperial price and an imperial topaz but a yellow or gold..heck..$15 will get you a clean 2 gram crystal..thats a Plebeian topaz


[edit]..sorry Joe Bob doesn''t sound like a very pakistani name..lol..sorry about that

Are you quoting yourself?

 

[Barrett]

yes..i am..just copied and pasted from other place that which i posted this morning..just part of ongoing discussion..wanted to highlight this part
"imperial" the name gives off the air of granduer..of the finer things..the things only say..an imperial or high ranking person would have..and i can tell you a 1 gram puple from ouro preto clean facet rough crystal cost $800-$1000..that is an imperial price and an imperial topaz but a yellow or gold..heck..$15 will get you a clean 2 gram crystal..thats a Plebeian topaz"